25th Anniversary of season 1987

[H_T 3,043]

I wasn't alive back in 1987 but from the sounds of it it was complete euphoria. I wish those days would happen now. I want everyone to hate us because we are so good, but I want them to admire us for playing good footy. Dammit, why can't the season start!

It was DEELIRIOUS. For a 12-13 yo kid back then it was like riding on a huge wave of emotion - one that seemed to gather momentum throughout (until that final kick in the PF). Whilst I recognise that the same circumstances will never be repeated, I sincerely hope that a similar level of excitement from that of '87 can be felt by those who support the Red & Blue today. And like others have said, go on one more and win the 13th.

[nutbean 8,838]

This thread got me thinking about what a magnificent year 1987 really was, many highs and just a few lows from my point of view.

The start was the night final when Brett Bailey kicked a right footer out of his backside from the pocket at Waverley to knock off Essendung.

We defeated the Filth twice in rounds 7 and 20 by 46 points and 55 points.

We knocked off Essendung by 22 points at Windy Hill.

We came home with a wet sail to beat the Dogs in the final round to scrape into the finals and then [censored] the Roos and the Swans in the Semi and Qualifying finals.

The lows for me were the loss to the Bears at Carrara in round 5 by 5 points and obviously the shattering prelim loss.

What might have been had we a fit Flower and a fit Lyon going into a GF.

I remember most fo the year and I remember (actually heard !) the Lyon broken leg. But a question due to my fading memory - what was Lyon like at that time ? had he already "arriveed" ?

[nutbean 8,838]

Mind you we should not have blamed Jimmy for the loss as Yeats, Campbell and Eishold all missed sitters in the last quarter that would have sealed the game. Eishold's effort in particular was a disgrace from close in.

We sat at VFL park for an hour after the game - speechless..not one word uttered. I was totally gutted. I was in a black mood for a week. Eishold's effort was actually comical.

[H_T 3,043]

I remember most fo the year and I remember (actually heard !) the Lyon broken leg. But a question due to my fading memory - what was Lyon like at that time ? had he already "arriveed" ?

I recall him playing a very good game in 1986. He was on the up. But that goal against the Eagles late in '88 Elimination final was huge for him, even though Wrensted missed soon after.

[stranga 328]

The irony is that up to Rd 14 it was a pretty crud year where we were 6 and 8 and had just been beaten badly by an apparenrly weaker Fitzroy at Princes Park.

Then it started to change....and we won 7 of our last 8 games....Wow. Finals in Flowers last year.

Thats an interesting point you make. As a matter of fact if i think about it, in all our good years since then we have never been consistently good througout the season. We always seemed to make a late run (eg. 98 & 2000) or be inconsistent or fall away (mid 2000's). Im really looking forward to a time when we are dominant the whole way through.

[The Chazz 4,077]

No shame in a few tears Swooper, one of my boys was also in tears after the game - so much expectation after so long in the wilderness.

Mind you we should not have blamed Jimmy for the loss as Yeats, Campbell and Eishold all missed sitters in the last quarter that would have sealed the game. Eishold's effort in particular was a disgrace from close in.

It's always the "What if Eishold had've kicked that goal", etc. Thing is, we will never know. Maybe Hawthorn might have got a centre clearance and kicked a quick one in return. It's a grey area, and there is no definitive answer as to what could have happened.

On the other hand, with Jimmy, was the fact that we were in front when the final siren sounded. As much as I love the great man, and will be forever thankful for what he has achieved in recent times, I can't not blame him for that result. He cost us a spot, and Northey knew that. I know it's harsh, and I will cop abuse I'm sure, but that's how I saw it - and I was there at VFL Park that dreaded day.

It was as simple as that - if Stynes didn't run across the mark, we would've been playing in a Grand Final.

[gsmith12 491]

I remember most fo the year and I remember (actually heard !) the Lyon broken leg. But a question due to my fading memory - what was Lyon like at that time ? had he already "arriveed" ?

Lyon was all class from the beginning in 1986 Nutbean and was already dominating games in '87 as a 19 year old. He made the State side for the first of several in '88.

[daisycutter 29,591]

It's always the "What if Eishold had've kicked that goal", etc. Thing is, we will never know. Maybe Hawthorn might have got a centre clearance and kicked a quick one in return. It's a grey area, and there is no definitive answer as to what could have happened.

On the other hand, with Jimmy, was the fact that we were in front when the final siren sounded. As much as I love the great man, and will be forever thankful for what he has achieved in recent times, I can't not blame him for that result. He cost us a spot, and Northey knew that. I know it's harsh, and I will cop abuse I'm sure, but that's how I saw it - and I was there at VFL Park that dreaded day.

It was as simple as that - if Stynes didn't run across the mark, we would've been playing in a Grand Final.

Maybe not that simple. The eventual kick more than cleared the goals by 15metres.....so who knows

Also, remember that it was not Stynes who gave the free kick away to Buckenara in the first place (was it Grinter?)

It was too, a very technical free. Buckenara was walking with his back to the goals, the siren had gone so he couldn't play on, when Stynes crossed the mark. Totally harmless as far as Buckenara was concerned. But yes that was the L A W. back then

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

It's always the "What if Eishold had've kicked that goal", etc. Thing is, we will never know. Maybe Hawthorn might have got a centre clearance and kicked a quick one in return. It's a grey area, and there is no definitive answer as to what could have happened.

On the other hand, with Jimmy, was the fact that we were in front when the final siren sounded. As much as I love the great man, and will be forever thankful for what he has achieved in recent times, I can't not blame him for that result. He cost us a spot, and Northey knew that. I know it's harsh, and I will cop abuse I'm sure, but that's how I saw it - and I was there at VFL Park that dreaded day.

It was as simple as that - if Stynes didn't run across the mark, we would've been playing in a Grand Final.

I think Buckenara would have kicked the goal anyway...it was only a 15 m penalty in those days..

The game should have been stitched up by then Eishold Yeats Campbell all missed absolute sitters...i was sitting behind those goals at the main scoreboard end...they were all terrible misses.

[Ivor 7]

Such a brilliant day! Enjoy it all or if you are pressed for time, fast forward to 4 mins 40 secs.

I was in that crowd.

And I was at the next three as well.

Amazing days.

The empty feeling after the prelim...

[bush demon 2,031]

It's always the "What if Eishold had've kicked that goal", etc. Thing is, we will never know. Maybe Hawthorn might have got a centre clearance and kicked a quick one in return. It's a grey area, and there is no definitive answer as to what could have happened.

On the other hand, with Jimmy, was the fact that we were in front when the final siren sounded. As much as I love the great man, and will be forever thankful for what he has achieved in recent times, I can't not blame him for that result. He cost us a spot, and Northey knew that. I know it's harsh, and I will cop abuse I'm sure, but that's how I saw it - and I was there at VFL Park that dreaded day.

It was as simple as that - if Stynes didn't run across the mark, we would've been playing in a Grand Final.

As one who rode the mighty wave of '87 I can't all these years down the track blame Jimmy's crossing the line for the loss that day. Instead I thank Ron Barassi for his foresight in bringing such a man to Melbourne. Who but a man like jimmy would be so driven to make the club his life-force and keep us alive with hope in the new century? We panicked no doubt in the last quarter, and the succession of easy misses reflected our lack of ultimate belief. That the team 'shoulda' won the flag i have no doubt, we just didn't believe it enough that when hawthorn finally got rollling we weren't prepared to - as john kennedy famously lamented, 'pay the price'. don't forget one-armed bandit robbie was there in the goalsquare ready to close the deal and give us the match we so badly wanted against carlton, a team we have consistently flogged in finals matches for nearly fifty years.

Edited February 7, 2012 by bush demon

[Its Time for Another 4,177]

Maybe not that simple. The eventual kick more than cleared the goals by 15metres.....so who knows

Also, remember that it was not Stynes who gave the free kick away to Buckenara in the first place (was it Grinter?)

It was too, a very technical free. Buckenara was walking with his back to the goals, the siren had gone so he couldn't play on, when Stynes crossed the mark. Totally harmless as far as Buckenara was concerned. But yes that was the L A W. back then

It was worse than that. The siren had actually blown full time but the umpire didn't hear it and awarded the free against Grinter after the game was over.

I don't think Buckenara had any chance of kicking it. The wind was all over the place at that end and would have made it virtually impossible from the full distance. But as people say, we'll never know. I'll never forget Campbell blazing away and missing while Robbie was on the goal line screaming for the ball with no opponents anywhere to be seen.

I can remember feeling a sick feeling of inevitability as the ball was kicked out from full back and headed towards that fateful free kick. Then watching Tuck and Flower with their arms around each other watching Buckenara's kick. I guess Tuck realising that kick could be the end of Robbie's career. In fact it wouldn't have been as recently Robbie admitted he would not have got up the next week because his shoulder was shot.

Edited February 7, 2012 by It's Time

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

It was worse than that. The siren had actually blown full time but the umpire didn't hear it and awarded the free against Grinter after the game was over.

I don't think Buckenara had any chance of kicking it. The wind was all over the place at that end and would have made it virtually impossible from the full distance. But as people say, we'll never know. I'll never forget Campbell blazing away and missing while Robbie was on the goal line screaming for the ball with no opponents anywhere to be seen.

STOP STOP STOP!!!

[Guest melbman]

There was also the goal the hawks were awarded that hit the post

Edit: The players were pointing up to the post and you could see the smudge mark where it scraped past

Edited February 7, 2012 by melbman

[dee-eee 231]

Such a brilliant day! Enjoy it all or if you are pressed for time, fast forward to 4 mins 40 secs.

What an emotional day for all of us there that day. Wall-to-wall Dees supporters in the outer.....atmosphere electric. After the game at Charlie Sutton's nearby pub , Footscray supporters were actually shaking our hands in recognition of our achievement in making "the five" !

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

Quoting Rhino...."Then it started to change....and we won 7 of our last 8 games"

Didn't we win our last six home-and-away games then 2 finals? i.e. 8 out of 9.

Actually, we won 3 finals, since John Kennedy hit the post at the 15 min mark of Q4, and it was called a goal.(much to Jimma's chagrin!).

Carlton won the GF,then we beat them 3 times the next year(including a final), so I claim we'd have won the GF.

As stated above, Northey had created an irresistible force, and only a series of questionable umpiring decisions, and poor kicking by usually accurate kicks(Campbell, Yates and Eishold), lost us that Prelim.

I was told by the Club doctor at the B and F (soon after the GF)that Brian Wilson was the only plasyer who'd have missed the GF. He reckons they'd have been able to play Flower with pain-killing injections in his shoulder. "Dirty"Dave Williams, who was dead stiff to miss the Prelim would have been a useful replacement for Willo.

***Sorry "Melb Man" just read your post after sending this one.

By the way, though Eishold's kick was a shocker, he was put on a ludicrous angle by the ump who was miles away when he marked it on the point of the goalsquare for a "gimme" goal. But he was given an acute angle, which made it a hard shot under pressure, and he went to water.

Edited February 7, 2012 by JUMPING JACK CLENNETT

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Quoting Rhino...."Then it started to change....and we won 7 of our last 8 games"

Didn't we win our last six home-and-away games then 2 finals? i.e. 8 out of 9.

Actually, we won 3 finals, since John Kennedy hit the post at the 15 min mark of Q4, and it was called a goal.(much to Jimma's chagrin!).

Carlton won the GF,then we beat them 3 times the next year(including a final), so I claim we'd have won the GF.

As stated above, Northey had created an irresistible force, and only a series of questionable umpiring decisions, and poor kicking by usually accurate kicks(Campbell, Yates and Eishold), lost us that Prelim.

I was told by the Club doctor at the B and F (soon after the GF)that Brian Wilson was the only plasyer who'd have missed the GF. He reckons they'd have been able to play Flower with pain-killing injections in his shoulder. "Dirty"Dave Williams, who was dead stiff to miss the Prelim would have been a useful replacement for Willo.

***Sorry "Melb Man" just read your post after sending this one.

By the way, though Eishold's kick was a shocker, he was put on a ludicrous angle by the ump who was miles away when he marked it on the point of the goalsquare for a "gimme" goal. But he was given an acute angle, which made it a hard shot under pressure, and he went to water.

Sorry JJC, i should have said 7 out of 8 H&A games. And we won 2 finals and blew the last one.

As the Preliminary final, you seemed to have overlooked in your revisionism that the preliminary final was a tough slug fest against an extremely strong opponent. Both sides spent there ammunition at the prelim final. The wave that MFC swept to the prelim final petered out after half time as MFC sought to hang on after it began to tire. if you watch the replay of Simon Eishold when he took the mark he made no effort despite Flowers urgings to improve his angle when he got up off the ground. Psychologically he was shot and was never going to make that kick.

And we lost the prelim final because MFC stopped doing what it had been doing in the lead up to the prelim final. We went into our shells in the 2nd half. In the last 15 minutes, MFC were terrible defensively. There was one passage of play where Langford (?) kicked out striaght up the guts and we had no one at the fall of the ball behind the pack and the Hawks raised it down for a goal. Simple stuff.

And i dont see the form relevance of what happened in 1988 having any bearing on the outcome of the GF. The Hawks went into the GF bruised and battered and played a rested Carlton in 27C temperature, melted and were easily flogged. MFC were as battered as the Hawks and would not have done any better.

As for Flower, the shoulder injury finished him regardless of the result. He was already having pain killing injections in the shoulder to come back on at the end. The injured arm was limp and inactive by Flower's side. He could not have played and had he done would have been given numerous hip and shoulders before the start of the game to soften the injury. Lets not forget he was already having pain killing injections for a broken finger. The shoulder injury was a serious blow that he would not have overcome.

[gsmith12 491]

Quoting Rhino...."Then it started to change....and we won 7 of our last 8 games"

Didn't we win our last six home-and-away games then 2 finals? i.e. 8 out of 9.

Actually, we won 3 finals, since John Kennedy hit the post at the 15 min mark of Q4, and it was called a goal.(much to Jimma's chagrin!).

Carlton won the GF,then we beat them 3 times the next year(including a final), so I claim we'd have won the GF.

As stated above, Northey had created an irresistible force, and only a series of questionable umpiring decisions, and poor kicking by usually accurate kicks(Campbell, Yates and Eishold), lost us that Prelim.

I was told by the Club doctor at the B and F (soon after the GF)that Brian Wilson was the only plasyer who'd have missed the GF. He reckons they'd have been able to play Flower with pain-killing injections in his shoulder. "Dirty"Dave Williams, who was dead stiff to miss the Prelim would have been a useful replacement for Willo.

***Sorry "Melb Man" just read your post after sending this one.

By the way, though Eishold's kick was a shocker, he was put on a ludicrous angle by the ump who was miles away when he marked it on the point of the goalsquare for a "gimme" goal. But he was given an acute angle, which made it a hard shot under pressure, and he went to water.

All a matter of conjecture Jack no doubt however one thing is certain and that is Eishold acted like a schoolboy forward with that kick, angle or not. He was close enough in to make it a certain goal had he concentrated on his approach rather than haphazardly slamming it on his boot. No excuses.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,108]

I always thought we could not have won in '87 no matter if we got over the Hawks in the Prelim however the experience of a GF may have put us in a better position in '88 and we may not have been belted like we were. All conjecture but who knows what might have been.

[Its Time for Another 4,177]

Dont you just love this sport. That round 22 win was my favorite moment of all time, 3 weeks later, that Prelim loss was the lowest moment of all time. What a ride that season was there hasn't been anything like it since and probably won't be except for the elation of the next Premiership but its not likely to be on the end of such a rollercoaster. Lets hope not anyway. We waited 23 years for that win to put us back into the finals, surely that's never to be repeated.

[Guest melbman]

Actually, we won 3 finals, since John Kennedy hit the post at the 15 min mark of Q4, and it was called a goal.(much to Jimma's chagrin!).

***Sorry "Melb Man" just read your post after sending this one.

Hiya JUMPING JACK CLENNETT

Nice to read a fuller account that what my memory serves :-)

I was right behind the goals and was screaming like an banshee by that stage but couldn't now remember if 2nd or 4th qtr.

Folks can call me a sore loser but we suffered daylight robbery that day. Umps probably cost us a flag.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

Sorry JJC, i should have said 7 out of 8 H&A games. And we won 2 finals and blew the last one.

As the Preliminary final, you seemed to have overlooked in your revisionism that the preliminary final was a tough slug fest against an extremely strong opponent. Both sides spent there ammunition at the prelim final. The wave that MFC swept to the prelim final petered out after half time as MFC sought to hang on after it began to tire. if you watch the replay of Simon Eishold when he took the mark he made no effort despite Flowers urgings to improve his angle when he got up off the ground. Psychologically he was shot and was never going to make that kick.

And we lost the prelim final because MFC stopped doing what it had been doing in the lead up to the prelim final. We went into our shells in the 2nd half. In the last 15 minutes, MFC were terrible defensively. There was one passage of play where Langford (?) kicked out striaght up the guts and we had no one at the fall of the ball behind the pack and the Hawks raised it down for a goal. Simple stuff.

And i dont see the form relevance of what happened in 1988 having any bearing on the outcome of the GF. The Hawks went into the GF bruised and battered and played a rested Carlton in 27C temperature, melted and were easily flogged. MFC were as battered as the Hawks and would not have done any better.

As for Flower, the shoulder injury finished him regardless of the result. He was already having pain killing injections in the shoulder to come back on at the end. The injured arm was limp and inactive by Flower's side. He could not have played and had he done would have been given numerous hip and shoulders before the start of the game to soften the injury. Lets not forget he was already having pain killing injections for a broken finger. The shoulder injury was a serious blow that he would not have overcome.

Thanks for revising my" revisionism", Rhino.

Just to straighten out your revisionism.....

By round 17, we had just lost 3 in a row, our previous win having been in round 13, interestingly, against Hawthorn at Princes Park.

We won rounds 17 to 22, ie 6 in a row.(6 out of 9 if you're talking H and away).

Add the 2 finals...I make that 8 out of 9.

As far as my contention that we would have beaten Carlton goes, surely it's a reasonable argument that we beat them 3 times the next year. It at least holds some weight. Yes, Carlton beat us easily in the first half of season 1987 on the MCG. But that was before the juggernaut started. We were a different side after round 16.

Every final we played we were gross underdogs, and surprised everyone, including in the Prelim. Only a series of incredibly unlucky events beat us that day( forget the bulldust about the wind change helping us,goals were kicked at both ends). Have a look at the replay and think about the umpiring! It was incredible! They were sucked in by the experienced Hawthorn players over and over again.

We'd have surprised everyone in the GF, too.Everyone had tipped North to beat us. They thought the 30-goal-scoring Sydney would kill us. They thought it was a no-contest against Hawthorn at Waverley.

We may have defended badly, but we attacked pretty well in those last 10 min. We generated golden opportunities for the match-winning goal to Eishold, Campbell and Yates. Just think of the excitement and enthusiasm that beating the best team in the comp(Hawthorn) would have generated. No-one could have stopped us.

I know it's pointless to look back on what might have been. But I can't help but think that one day, the gods will smile on us.(as they did on Collingwood with the Milne bounce, after so many unlucky GF's between 1964 and 2010.)

ps Rhino. My apologies for not realising that you knew a lot more about Flower's condition than the Club doctor.

[Its Time for Another 4,177]

Robbie himself recently said he didn't think he was going to get up if they'd made it to the GF. I'd rely on his account more than anyone else's

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

Robbie didn't exactly carry us in the prelim. We still very nearly beat Hawthorn without much input from him,so we still could have beaten Carlton without him.(but the fact remains....the club doctor expected him to play.)

I recently heard him say that he doubted he would have played ,too. In fact it was in answer to a question from me on talk back radio. However his memories of the time seemed rather dim.

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

Robbie didn't exactly carry us in the prelim. We still very nearly beat Hawthorn without much input from him,so we still could have beaten Carlton without him.(but the fact remains....the club doctor expected him to play.)

I recently heard him say that he doubted he would have played ,too. In fact it was in answer to a question from me on talk back radio. However his memories of the time seemed rather dim.

I was sitting right behind Robbie when he was in the goal square with Michael Tuck. His arm was "dead" there was a big bump on his shoulder. I know he had 7 days to "recover" but i seriously doubt we could have carried him in a GF. But we are discussing R Flower here. Spoke to him for a good hour last year at the ABC before Marngrook. What a top gentleman. Mention '87 to Robbie & his eyes still light up. He told me the crowd at the western oval got the team over the line. He was so proud of that stacked outer that day.