I'm embarking on a little journey of discovery.

I'm a 22 year old Melbourne supporter who loves everything about the club

But throughout my time as a Dee, there has always seemed to be this red figure looming over the club.

I'm really curious to learn as much as i possibly can about Norman Walter Smith, if you have any details, stories or facts, please let me know

I'm particuarly interested in learning about 'the Dismissal' and what actually happened, i was wondering if perhaps some of our older posters might have a little bit of intel on what actually happened in that remarkably tumultuous time.

Also, its the off season so talking about the Red Fox is probably a bit more interesting than talking about repeat effort sprints for the next 3 months.

  On 29/11/2011 at 13:44, mephis said:

I'm embarking on a little journey of discovery.

I'm a 22 year old Melbourne supporter who loves everything about the club

But throughout my time as a Dee, there has always seemed to be this red figure looming over the club.

I'm really curious to learn as much as i possibly can about Norman Walter Smith, if you have any details, stories or facts, please let me know

I'm particuarly interested in learning about 'the Dismissal' and what actually happened, i was wondering if perhaps some of our older posters might have a little bit of intel on what actually happened in that remarkably tumultuous time.

Also, its the off season so talking about the Red Fox is probably a bit more interesting than talking about repeat effort sprints for the next 3 months.

An excellent place to start would be to read his biography, "The Red Fox " . It's available at the Demon Shop . Top read.

Yep read the Red Fox. You will be a Demon for life mate.

Second/third the above, great book not just about him but MFC in general from the 30's to the 70's

Just started read The Red Fox last night, it's been sitting on my shelf all year. There's also a website (theredfox.com.au) where you can view his (and his brother Len's) iconic coaching booklet "Lectures on Football" amongst other things.

I only read the first chapter so far but what really interested me was the Forward written by his son in which he states that the thing that upset Norm the most in his time in football wasn't the sacking in 1965, but the members failing to vote him onto the board 2 years later in 1967. Apparently that really got to him and basically ended his 35 year tenure with the club. Considering our incompetence in administration since the golden age I wondered how different things might have been had we had a giant like Smith on the board.

  On 29/11/2011 at 13:44, mephis said:

Agree with the above. I'd also recommend doing an advanced search here on Demonland for threads about Norm Smith. You might well find a fair bit of information.

The 'Red Fox' should be required reading for every Melbourne supporter. I was a (much younger) Dees supporter during the glory years of the 1950s and 60s, and reading the biography made it all seem like yesterday. Comprehensive and beautifully captured by Ben Collins.

Given that it's the off season, and the Rookie Draft is still 12 days away if Redleg's calculations are correct, I thought I might indulge myself, and perhaps a few others by quoting the poem 'SMITHY' written by former Demon Ray Groom in 1963, which is at the front of the book.

"OK,in ya go"

The door slams fast

and we all know

We're in for a blast

Smithy's in a ripe old mood

Red hair and that stare

he stalks his brood

"OK Quiet"

We wait for his word

not a sound is heard

"You've got one opportunity

only one!

If we don't take this one, we're done!

Talk boys talk

never shirk or baulk

Forget drop kicks

use the punt

And remember fellas

stay in front

Hassa, keep movin' round

Bluey, drop in short

And scout

Barass. Don't just talk,

Shout!

Fellas

be proud to wear the red and blue

and don't blame others

it's up to you!

Fortune favours the brave ya' know

so get out there

and put on a show"

We're all psyched up

ready to go

jump'n and chatt'n

urging and patting

The crowd gives a roar

as we crash through the door

then dash down the race

at one heck of a pace

On the hallowed turf

of the MCG

we twist and turn excitedly

Norm's words ring out loud

Despite the wild crowd

"Fellas it's do or die

so try, try, try!"

Makes me ponder, could Mark Neeld be our Norm Smith of the new millenium? Just dreaming, but there seem to be similarities beyond hair colour.

This is a clip that i was directed to, only short but i remember a second also

  On 30/11/2011 at 01:03, Deeoldfart said:

The 'Red Fox' should be required reading for every Melbourne supporter. I was a (much younger) Dees supporter during the glory years of the 1950s and 60s, and reading the biography made it all seem like yesterday. Comprehensive and beautifully captured by Ben Collins.

...

Makes me ponder, could Mark Neeld be our Norm Smith of the new millenium? Just dreaming, but there seem to be similarities beyond hair colour.

I sure hope the first thing that was given to Mark Neeld was a copy of The Red Fox. That poem is just superb. You can here the roar.

Don't blame others. It's up to you.......

  On 30/11/2011 at 01:31, Jordie_tackles said:

This is a clip that i was directed to, only short but i remember a second also

" I'm Melbourne , I'm Melbourne , I'm Melbourne . I am Melbourne , and I am Melbourne through and through .... "

Couldn't put it any better than the AFL Coach of The Century Himself !!

  On 30/11/2011 at 05:00, mollydee said:

" I'm Melbourne , I'm Melbourne , I'm Melbourne . I am Melbourne , and I am Melbourne through and through .... "

What I've always found interesting about this reply to Tony Charlton's question are the words "at this stage"

  On 30/11/2011 at 07:14, Tim said:

What I've always found interesting about this reply to Tony Charlton's question are the words "at this stage"

I have no doubt Norm was a fiery character who obviously rubbed some of the board up the wrong way. But by God he new Football on and off the ground.

  On 30/11/2011 at 07:14, Tim said:

What I've always found interesting about this reply to Tony Charlton's question are the words "at this stage"

But still , he said it , and I'm not sure that many would in the same circumstances .

This was a man who had just been kicked out of his home.

Despite this, his integrity and identity remain intact, as does his home.

Those that did this to him are a footnote in our history.

We live and learn.

  On 30/11/2011 at 01:31, Jordie_tackles said:

This is a clip that i was directed to, only short but i remember a second also

Listen to the man he gave it all for the club!

He was relentless for success & he demanded it from his players.

He created a culture which was demanding!

He said you play to make & win grand finals

As usual the board shafted all because of self driven interest!

  On 30/11/2011 at 01:31, Jordie_tackles said:

This is a clip that i was directed to, only short but i remember a second also

I know i posted this link....but as many have pointed out it is one of those clips you can watch over and over again and it really captivated you, its so believable is obviously real but it puts shivers down my spine nearly every time. Norm Smith really bled for our team, and it is ridiculous to think that the board at the time didnt back and sacked the now Coach of the Century. so very diappointing and was the thing which spiraled our club into half a century of obscurity really.

I haven't ever known anything about Norm Smith other than the Norm Smith name and some references mostly on this site to the Norm Smith curse. I arrived as a pommy kid in 1974 and was taken to the footy by the MFC loving Harris family of Vermont, I've loved the club ever since and after watching that interview I can't help but feel that much of what I've been through over these years can be attributed to this "the sacking".

In that interview Norm Smith was beyond blindsided or gutted, he was someone who had given every atom of himself and was now completely lost. Haunting footage, thanks for posting it.

I was just a dumb kid Dees fan at the time, but it seemed Norm & his incredible dedication & unyielding attention to the job & infectious loyalty was the single biggest factor driving the Melbourne era. It's been an inspiration through my life & the more we get back to that, the closer the next flag will be. It seemed the opposite to todays big money & everyone changing clubs often etc.

  On 14/12/2011 at 11:18, Rob Mac...... said:

I was just a dumb kid Dees fan at the time, but it seemed Norm & his incredible dedication & unyielding attention to the job & infectious loyalty was the single biggest factor driving the Melbourne era. It's been an inspiration through my life & the more we get back to that, the closer the next flag will be. It seemed the opposite to todays big money & everyone changing clubs often etc.

As a teenager I managed to sneak into the Melbourne rooms during half time at the Arden St oval. So I had a chance to listen to the great Norm Smith in action. Melbourne, a top team then, was ahead of the aptly named 'Shinboners' by just the solitary point. Smithy was not happy and made a fiery speech which went something like this. " You are not playing against a football team, you are playing against a mob of mongrels. Ian McLean, come out here and pull down your sock! " he screamed. McLean, a little wingman, did as he was asked revealing a huge bloodied gash on his shin. "That's no accident, that's North Melbourne." He then said," Bob Johnson, pull up your jumper. Look at those stop marks! That's this mob for you!" Just at this moment, a crude comment flowed in from an outside window. Smith used this as further fuel for his 'hate the enemy' campaign. He shrieked," Listen to that ! That's North Melbourne for you. The supporters stink, the president stinks, the club stinks, so get out there and thrash 'em!"

I watched spellbound at some of the players reactions. Ron Barassi, a seasoned player stood there bristling shifting his weight from foot to foot keen to get back into action. The normally placid John Beckwith looked extremely hostile as did Don Williams, Noel McMahen and Brian Dixon. Most of the team did look decidedly angry.

Smithy's provocative speech had its desired effect and the Demons rattled on 12 goals in the second half to win by the comfortable margin of 6 goals. Yes, Norm Smith was the greatest coach for inspiring his troops. Just hope Neeld is tarred with the same brush.

  On 16/12/2011 at 15:54, bobby mckenzie said:

As a teenager I managed to sneak into the Melbourne rooms during half time at the Arden St oval. So I had a chance to listen to the great Norm Smith in action. Melbourne, a top team then, was ahead of the aptly named 'Shinboners' by just the solitary point. Smithy was not happy and made a fiery speech which went something like this. " You are not playing against a football team, you are playing against a mob of mongrels. Ian McLean, come out here and pull down your sock! " he screamed. McLean, a little wingman, did as he was asked revealing a huge bloodied gash on his shin. "That's no accident, that's North Melbourne." He then said," Bob Johnson, pull up your jumper. Look at those stop marks! That's this mob for you!" Just at this moment, a crude comment flowed in from an outside window. Smith used this as further fuel for his 'hate the enemy' campaign. He shrieked," Listen to that ! That's North Melbourne for you. The supporters stink, the president stinks, the club stinks, so get out there and thrash 'em!" I watched spellbound at some of the players reactions. Ron Barassi, a seasoned player stood there bristling shifting his weight from foot to foot keen to get back into action. The normally placid John Beckwith looked extremely hostile as did Don Williams, Noel McMahen and Brian Dixon. Most of the team did look decidedly angry. Smithy's provocative speech had its desired effect and the Demons rattled on 12 goals in the second half to win by the comfortable margin of 6 goals. Yes, Norm Smith was the greatest coach for inspiring his troops. Just hope Neeld is tarred with the same brush.

I'd love to have heard Norm in the rooms like you did. Closest I got was behind them on the bench. Yes, the more Neeld (or anyone at the club) is like Norm, the better off I reckon we'll be Bobby. Hey, we've got the same name! Good luck to you.

  On 16/12/2011 at 15:54, bobby mckenzie said:

As a teenager I managed to sneak into the Melbourne rooms during half time at the Arden St oval. So I had a chance to listen to the great Norm Smith in action. Melbourne, a top team then, was ahead of the aptly named 'Shinboners' by just the solitary point. Smithy was not happy and made a fiery speech which went something like this. " You are not playing against a football team, you are playing against a mob of mongrels. Ian McLean, come out here and pull down your sock! " he screamed. McLean, a little wingman, did as he was asked revealing a huge bloodied gash on his shin. "That's no accident, that's North Melbourne." He then said," Bob Johnson, pull up your jumper. Look at those stop marks! That's this mob for you!" Just at this moment, a crude comment flowed in from an outside window. Smith used this as further fuel for his 'hate the enemy' campaign. He shrieked," Listen to that ! That's North Melbourne for you. The supporters stink, the president stinks, the club stinks, so get out there and thrash 'em!"

I watched spellbound at some of the players reactions. Ron Barassi, a seasoned player stood there bristling shifting his weight from foot to foot keen to get back into action. The normally placid John Beckwith looked extremely hostile as did Don Williams, Noel McMahen and Brian Dixon. Most of the team did look decidedly angry.

Smithy's provocative speech had its desired effect and the Demons rattled on 12 goals in the second half to win by the comfortable margin of 6 goals. Yes, Norm Smith was the greatest coach for inspiring his troops. Just hope Neeld is tarred with the same brush.

That's brilliant Bobby. Thanks for that. You are a privellaged man to have heard that.

I am re-reading Red Fox at present and I think painting Smith as a martyr in Melbourne's demise is not the way to go. Towards the end of '64 an undeclared war between the committee and Smith had led BOTH Smith and Barassi to shop around for gigs at either Carlton or Richmond. The root cause of this appears to be Melbourne's unwillingness to join the dawning cheque book recruitment campaign of competing clubs which was rapidly overtaking the Demons' list. Smith's tantrum over Umpire Blew's alleged bias in at match during '64 also indicated Smith was losing his sure touch... undoubtedly frustrated by Melbourne's declining list he was getting frayed and trying to squeeze more out of less.

At the end of '64 we lost Barassi, Adams and Roet and i think our only signficant gain in '65 was Stan Alves. It pains me to remember supporting the shell of the demons team through the 60's when we had lapsed into irrelevance. it pains me that i continued to follow the demons through the 70's and on to the present day, all the time shackled with the memory 'what if' the Smith/Barassi reign hadn't disintegrated. Despite all this, I am glad to say that I am still "Melbourne" and can see brighter days ahead.

  On 30/11/2011 at 10:31, Biffen said:

We live and learn.

The sad part is that we don't live and learn - at least not at Melbourne.

I agree with Bush Demon. You need to go back as far as the Norm Smith era to understand how a strong and successful club fell from grace and how internal divisions at the top festered to this very day to prevent it from realising the ultimate in success. 

Such divisions have existed and continue to exist at other clubs but I don't believe the effects have been as widespread or as devastating anywhere else than at Melbourne.

In many ways, our story is like a Shakespearean tragedy with the starting points being the seemingly invincible Norm Smith as the regal coach ruling his domain with a strong army led by his loyal soldier hero Ron Barassi and aided by the prince of administrators Jim Cardwell.

The Melbourne Football Club lived in their shadow for decades, went through one or two periods of revival in those times but lost all of its wealth (and I'm not just talking about its material wealth) and was never strongly enough administered to sustain any success.

What we have often seen are successions of leadership, nights of long knives and faceless men plotting to overthrow power . The force that brought down our best ever coach and caused us to lose our greatest ever player and a magnificent football team was ego and greed. 

Mark Neeld is now at the helm and in many ways starts his coaching career, like many others before him at a club that still waits to be fully united as it was in the 50s and in most of the first half of the 60s. If that can be achieved during his time here, then the club might finally find a true successor to the great Norm Smith.

I remember my aunty taking me to the rooms after the games in the swooper era . I think she had a hidden agenda then as the boys would nude up straight after the song! (Viney was a favourite after the game ,"balls" during).

My family saw all those 50s and 60s flags happen and my Grandmother was fanatical .

I've known nothing but pain as a Demon - but the wheel turns.

The most important thing is we are in control of our future and the club is a good place to be.

The dour redhead is a force to be feared.

That's why Neeld kept Bater - to help lift the heavy curse of the bloodnut.

  On 16/12/2011 at 21:08, Whispering_Jack said:

The sad part is that we don't live and learn - at least not at Melbourne.

I agree with Bush Demon. You need to go back as far as the Norm Smith era to understand how a strong and successful club fell from grace and how internal divisions at the top festered to this very day to prevent it from realising the ultimate in success.

Such divisions have existed and continue to exist at other clubs but I don't believe the effects have been as widespread or as devastating anywhere else than at Melbourne.

In many ways, our story is like a Shakespearean tragedy with the starting points being the seemingly invincible Norm Smith as the regal coach ruling his domain with a strong army led by his loyal soldier hero Ron Barassi and aided by the prince of administrators Jim Cardwell.

The Melbourne Football Club lived in their shadow for decades, went through one or two periods of revival in those times but lost all of its wealth (and I'm not just talking about its material wealth) and was never strongly enough administered to sustain any success.

What we have often seen are successions of leadership, nights of long knives and faceless men plotting to overthrow power . The force that brought down our best ever coach and caused us to lose our greatest ever player and a magnificent football team was ego and greed.

Mark Neeld is now at the helm and in many ways starts his coaching career, like many others before him at a club that still waits to be fully united as it was in the 50s and in most of the first half of the 60s. If that can be achieved during his time here, then the club might finally find a true successor to the great Norm Smith.

Very wise and compelling words WJ. Typical of all your posts really. A man who thinks before he writes. UNITED and with Neeld at the helm, we can start to go places.