Casey Scorpions v Werribee Tigers

[KC from Casey 6,562]

The Scorps need to win this one to give the alignment a nice kick start for a weekend feast on Tigers:-

CASEY SCORPIONS vs WERRIBEE TIGERS

Saturday 20th August

Casey Fields at 2:00 PM

CASEY SCORPIONS

Backs Bail Warnock Bennell

Half backs Morton Mohr McDonald

Centreline Bate Nicholson Wall

Half forwards McKenzie DunnMcNamara

Forwards Lawrence Fevola Jetta

Followers Gawn Nicholls Maric

Interchange (from) Allen *Campbell Collins Davis Fitzpatrick Jurrah Lees McGough Panozza Petropoulos Pollard Stockdale Waite

WERRIBEE TIGERS

Backs Urquhart Hartigan MacMillan

Half backs Tuck Mangan Harding

Centreline Tighe Sharp O'Dwyer

Half forwards Castello Daw Ross

Forwards Mather Warren McKinley

Followers McIntosh Gleeson Adams

Interchange (from) Chisholm Dickson Lunardi Prismall Rockefeller Ruggles Sullivan Treloar* Wormald

* 23rd player

[KC from Casey 6,562]

CASEY SCORPIONS vs WERRIBEE TIGERS (Reserve Grade)

Saturday 20th August

Casey Fields at 11:00 AM

CASEY SCORPIONS 

Backs Dowse Panozza Bolton

Half backs Riseley Purdy Patti

Centreline Gent Bell Baumgartner

Half forwards Fieldsend Cook Lawrence

Forwards Matthews Waite Purves

Followers Campbell Collins Petropoulos

Interchange (from) Clay Cleven Corry Hill Johnston Lindsay McShane Pollard J Roberts Tynan Weekes Wonaeamirri

WERRIBEE TIGERS

Backs Caldow Saker Rockefeller

Half backs Bryce Dickson McCormack

Centreline Prismall Priest Moloney

Half forwards Wormald Allwright Harrison

Forwards Chisholm Still Martiniello

Followers Sullivan Ruggles Lunardi

Interchange (from)  Halloran James Risol Robbins Schroder Simpson White Williams

[rhaz 342]

Wonna back!

Cook still in the twos...

Bail back to the seniors

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Wonna back!

Cook still in the twos...

Bail back to the seniors

Cook has kicked 1 goal in two weeks whilst playing in the Casey reserves and has not even been mentioned in the best players, either week, that for a clubs number 1 draft pick is simply not good enough.

After we drafted a skinny kid in Morton, who after 3 years on the list is still underweight and will, in all probability, always be, you would have thought they'd learned a lesson.

[Waltham33 409]

A big change that Cook, given his body size is pretty tired at this stage of the season.

IMHO it is more important what he does in the November - February period than what he is doing now.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Not worried about Cook at all.

He has shown he has the tools to be a very good player.

They're all skinny at that age, every one of them.

He just needs to bulk up.

Ill-informed criticism.

[rpfc 27,531]

Cook has kicked 1 goal in two weeks whilst playing in the Casey reserves and has not even been mentioned in the best players, either week, that for a clubs number 1 draft pick is simply not good enough.

After we drafted a skinny kid in Morton, who after 3 years on the list is still underweight and will, in all probability, always be, you would have thought they'd learned a lesson.

Come on, RF.

Give the kid a chance. Tall, teenage CHFs have issues early on...

It isn't a failed pick because he is in the thirds in his first year.

Edited August 19, 2011 by rpfc

[old dee 22,930]

Cook has kicked 1 goal in two weeks whilst playing in the Casey reserves and has not even been mentioned in the best players, either week, that for a clubs number 1 draft pick is simply not good enough.

After we drafted a skinny kid in Morton, who after 3 years on the list is still underweight and will, in all probability, always be, you would have thought they'd learned a lesson.

I agree mate it does not look good.

However I never thought he would play at AFL level before late 2012.

Time will tell if the skinny kid becomes more than a skinny adult!

[old dee 22,930]

Not worried about Cook at all.

He has shown he has the tools to be a very good player.

They're all skinny at that age, every one of them.

He just needs to bulk up.

Ill-informed criticism.

Sorry GK they are not all skinny at his age.

A little known bloke called Darling was not skinny.

[John Dee 438]

Sorry GK they are not all skinny at his age.

A little known bloke called Darling was not skinny.

I have seen a number of Casey games this year. I saw Darling live last week and have seen hin on TV a few times as well.

If you gave the the choice right now, I would choose Cook over Darling.

[daisycutter 28,603]

Come on, RF.

Give the kid a chance. Tall, teenage CHFs have issues early on...

It isn't a failed pick because he is in the thirds in his first year.

yeah its probably just too long and intense a season for someone first year out of school. its a big step up for his height/weight in endurance.

wouldn't get worried about it yet. another pre season and a few more kgs will work wonders

his form was ok earlier in season and has just tapered

[old dee 22,930]

I have seen a number of Casey games this year. I saw Darling live last week and have seen hin on TV a few times as well.

If you gave the the choice right now, I would choose Cook over Darling.

So far the runs are with Darling he is playing with a team in the top four who will play

finals football this year.

Our bloke is so far back he cannot hear the band.

There will need to be an amazing turn of events over next 2 -3 years before we get in front.

Having said that I am not saying he is a bum.

Just one is playing at AFL finals level and the others is in the thirds!

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

I have seen a number of Casey games this year. I saw Darling live last week and have seen hin on TV a few times as well.

If you gave the the choice right now, I would choose Cook over Darling.

Same here.

A few games in the 2s at the tail end of the season when young bodies get tired, doesn't worry me.

Cook will have a much steeper J curve than the manchild Darling.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

So far the runs are with Darling he is playing with a team in the top four who will play

finals football this year.

Our bloke is so far back he cannot hear the band.

There will need to be an amazing turn of events over next 2 -3 years before we get in front.

Having said that I am not saying he is a bum.

Just one is playing at AFL finals level and the others is in the thirds!

Why is it that some people repeatedly fail to learn the lessons that history teaches us, even recent history?

Would you have taken Rich over Watts?

So people were gushing over Darling pre-draft, so what?

You might recall a very similar situation occurring with Tom Swift a couple of years prior.

A lot of people hung their hat on Voss saying he was the best 16 year old he'd ever seen - not too much different to a load of "draft experts" predicting top 3 for Darling, a year out from his draft.

Are we kicking ourselves that we didn't take Swift?

Give it time, FCS.

Cook was selected U/18 AA CHF ahead of Darling, and for good reason.

[old dee 22,930]

Why is it that some people repeatedly fail to learn the lessons that history teaches us, even recent history?

Would you have taken Rich over Watts?

So people were gushing over Darling pre-draft, so what?

You might recall a very similar situation occurring with Tom Swift a couple of years prior.

A lot of people hung their hat on Voss saying he was the best 16 year old he'd ever seen - not too much different to a load of "draft experts" predicting top 3 for Darling, a year out from his draft.

Are we kicking ourselves that we didn't take Swift?

Give it time, FCS.

Cook was selected U/18 AA CHF ahead of Darling, and for good reason.

If potential was the end story then The MFC should win the flag next year!

I will say it again "I am not saying Cook is a bum"

Time will tell who is the best.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Why is it that some people repeatedly fail to learn the lessons that history teaches us, even recent history?

Would you have taken Rich over Watts?

So people were gushing over Darling pre-draft, so what?

You might recall a very similar situation occurring with Tom Swift a couple of years prior.

A lot of people hung their hat on Voss saying he was the best 16 year old he'd ever seen - not too much different to a load of "draft experts" predicting top 3 for Darling, a year out from his draft.

Are we kicking ourselves that we didn't take Swift?

Give it time, FCS.

Cook was selected U/18 AA CHF ahead of Darling, and for good reason.

Sorry Gareth. You cannot make logical arguments and ask for patience in this place.

And good luck trying to discuss this matter with OD and RF (especially RF).

I guarantee you that these two would have been in exactly that boat in regards to Swift/Rich etc. Would also have been smashing Frawley and Garland while they were developing. They cannot stand or understand the concept of seeing potential in a kid and then giving him time to develop. They want it all now and according to RF our recruiting has been an absolute disaster (mind you he never bothered to make the same argument when he was presented with a thread deveoted to drafting evidence).

Bottom line is that the vast majority have faith in the clubs recruiters and can understand that Cook, like Watts, will take time to develop and fill out.

But some you just can't reason with................

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cook has kicked 1 goal in two weeks whilst playing in the Casey reserves and has not even been mentioned in the best players, either week, that for a clubs number 1 draft pick is simply not good enough.

After we drafted a skinny kid in Morton, who after 3 years on the list is still underweight and will, in all probability, always be, you would have thought they'd learned a lesson.

Nothing like shooting without facts. There may well be issues behind Cook's disposition that we are not privy too. And its not an issue that we drafted a skinny kid. Cook is a tall 196cm 18 yo when drafted. Like any player of that age and size they will take time to mature. And writing him off now is foolhardy. On that basis, we should have dumped Watts, Frawley and Garland. FWIW, Morton's lack of progress this year is a concern. But using him as a basis for not recruiting someone as a future KPF is illogical.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

My exact thoughts on Morton.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Nothing like shooting without facts. There may well be issues behind Cook's disposition that we are not privy too. And its not an issue that we drafted a skinny kid. Cook is a tall 196cm 18 yo when drafted. Like any player of that age and size they will take time to mature. And writing him off now is foolhardy. On that basis, we should have dumped Watts, Frawley and Garland. FWIW, Morton's lack of progress this year is a concern. But using him as a basis for not recruiting someone as a future KPF is illogical.

FWIW I was firmly in the draft Watts camp and never deviated from my faith in him, so let's get that straight. I was one of the ones who stuck up for Garland early in the piece so let's get that straight. I had some concerns about Frawley's skill level but he's proven me wrong although his kicking action and his passing still cause some concern; he is a very good player though.

I stuck by Morton long after many gave him away and thought he may put on some weight and be better equipped for AFL Football, it seems I was wrong there too, he will always be skinny. One of the posters on here, Redleg I think it was, said that Cook was dropped to the reserves because there were issues about him going in for the ball and this caused me some concern, we already have enough that don't go when it's "their turn". I don't expect the kid to be as good as Watts, but I do expect he would be good enough to get a game in the seconds and to put in when required.

I also understand that kids get tired towards the end of the season, that's why we have Casey so they can get a run there, I do expect that our first draft pick will have the level of skill and fitness required to at least make it through the season with them, in their firsts.

[old dee 22,930]

Sorry Gareth. You cannot make logical arguments and ask for patience in this place.

And good luck trying to discuss this matter with OD and RF (especially RF).

I guarantee you that these two would have been in exactly that boat in regards to Swift/Rich etc. Would also have been smashing Frawley and Garland while they were developing. They cannot stand or understand the concept of seeing potential in a kid and then giving him time to develop. They want it all now and according to RF our recruiting has been an absolute disaster (mind you he never bothered to make the same argument when he was presented with a thread deveoted to drafting evidence).

Bottom line is that the vast majority have faith in the clubs recruiters and can understand that Cook, like Watts, will take time to develop and fill out.

But some you just can't reason with................

The problem is GoaG guys like Robbief and myself have been doing just what you suggest for 47 years the majority of which have turned out like 2011.

Always promise but bugger all else.

One of the major problems with the MFC is just what you are suggesting trustng the "club recruiters"

We do not question enough IMO

Can you give me a time frame on the trust element please?

I do take exception to your comment that suggests anyone with a differing opinion to yourself is obviously inferior.

And tone suggests we who differ should be looked down upon as some sort of inferior supporter.

Well guess what I will not stop questioning MFC decisions because you think I am wrong.

If you read my comments I have never said Cook is a bum or will not make it.

However I do question why we seem to always take a very long view with the vast majority of our selections.

If we do not start winning a reasonable number of games against teams of similar abilty to us e.g. North and the Dogs etc we will not be around to see the likes of Cook becomes stars.

You can only live on promise for so long.

That is my opinion now if you disagree fine I can live with your opinion.

[jayceebee31 670]

Nothing like shooting without facts. There may well be issues behind Cook's disposition that we are not privy too. And its not an issue that we drafted a skinny kid. Cook is a tall 196cm 18 yo when drafted. Like any player of that age and size they will take time to mature. And writing him off now is foolhardy. On that basis, we should have dumped Watts, Frawley and Garland. FWIW, Morton's lack of progress this year is a concern. But using him as a basis for not recruiting someone as a future KPF is illogical.

R.R -you surely carry on sometimes- Cook has been a disaster as a first round pick this year. One would have expected him to be a regular Casey 1st footballer not a Casey 2nds player whom is lucky to get a game there.No doubt there is major room for improvement but he does not seem to have the will,or the ability to succeed.Buit rightly so, he will take years that is why we need Fevola for the next few years or someone like him and ther ain't many.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

R.R -you surely carry on sometimes- Cook has been a disaster as a first round pick this year. One would have expected him to be a regular Casey 1st footballer not a Casey 2nds player whom is lucky to get a game there.No doubt there is major room for improvement but he does not seem to have the will,or the ability to succeed.Buit rightly so, he will take years that is why we need Fevola for the next few years or someone like him and ther ain't many.

And so was Watts in his first year. FFS he is only 19.

And you want to recruit a proven 2 club disaster!!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

FWIW I was firmly in the draft Watts camp and never deviated from my faith in him, so let's get that straight. I was one of the ones who stuck up for Garland early in the piece so let's get that straight. I had some concerns about Frawley's skill level but he's proven me wrong although his kicking action and his passing still cause some concern; he is a very good player though.

I stuck by Morton long after many gave him away and thought he may put on some weight and be better equipped for AFL Football, it seems I was wrong there too, he will always be skinny. One of the posters on here, Redleg I think it was, said that Cook was dropped to the reserves because there were issues about him going in for the ball and this caused me some concern, we already have enough that don't go when it's "their turn". I don't expect the kid to be as good as Watts, but I do expect he would be good enough to get a game in the seconds and to put in when required.

I also understand that kids get tired towards the end of the season, that's why we have Casey so they can get a run there, I do expect that our first draft pick will have the level of skill and fitness required to at least make it through the season with them, in their firsts.

Skinny isnt the issue with Morton, And skinny isnt the issue with Cook. All you've got is random comment from another poster and drawn a harsh conclusion about the player. So you understand that kids get tired towards the end of the season but you expect them to have the level of skill and fitness to compete all year. A bet both ways! Garland, Frawley and Watts were crap in their respectiver first seasons and have blossomed in subsequent years. Now what does that tell us? Hmmmm.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Skinny isnt the issue with Morton, And skinny isnt the issue with Cook. All you've got is random comment from another poster and drawn a harsh conclusion about the player. So you understand that kids get tired towards the end of the season but you expect them to have the level of skill and fitness to compete all year. A bet both ways! Garland, Frawley and Watts were crap in their respectiver first seasons and have blossomed in subsequent years. Now what does that tell us? Hmmmm.

What I expect from our first pick in the draft is that he at least capable of holding down a spot in the Casey first and he hasn't, I expect to see some of the fringe rookies to be used to top up the Casey Reserves and that's where we differ.

BTW I don't know how many times i have to say it, I was in the draft Watts camp and never doubted he'd be a very good player or better, Garland I saw a bit in him and was happy that we got him, Frawley I had some doubts about his skill level and I was wrong, can't see that as a bets both ways. With regard to the fitness levels, I would expect that a player in the firsts (AFL) would become tired towards the end of the season and may be rested in a much LOWER level at Casey, I don't expect players at Casey to suffer the same and have to be dropped to the reserves. Cook is probably lucky we don't have a thirds team at Casey; and if he's that tired don't play him at all.

Edited August 19, 2011 by RobbieF

[dee-luded 2,958]

What I expect from our first pick in the draft is that he at least capable of holding down a spot in the Casey first and he hasn't, I expect to see some of the fringe rookies to be used to top up the Casey Reserves and that's where we differ.

BTW I don't know how many times i have to say it, I was in the draft Watts camp and never doubted he'd be a very good player or better, Garland I saw a bit in him and was happy that we got him, Frawley I had some doubts about his skill level and I was wrong, can't see that as a bets both ways. With regard to the fitness levels, I would expect that a player in the firsts (AFL) would become tired towards the end of the season and may be rested in a much LOWER level at Casey, I don't expect players at Casey to suffer the same and have to be dropped to the reserves. Cook is probably lucky we don't have a thirds team at Casey; and if he's that tired don't play him at all.

He has & he did, was, but when we were talking him up about getting ready to maybe embark towards getting a game, something happened in the away group of games jusrt prior to the geelong game. Either he must have got ahead of himself, or lost confidance. Or became undisciplined?

Bu there must be some reason he's been Put back in the 2nds.