Sylvia gone too ??

[e25 5]

It's poignant you mention Chip Frawley because didn't he manage a stellar All-Australian year lasy year in an ordinary football team?

Col Sylvia will find consistency when he applies himself consistently. At all times. In all games.

He should be playing with the attitude "I'm going to help make this team a good football side through my efforts", not waiting for others around him to lift first.

If Chip can play an AA season, why can't he?

It all comes back to that word ... application.

+1.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Ok ... in future if Colin every gets a injury and unable to perform to your levels. ie "applies himself consistently. At all times. In all games."

What we will do is put out a press statement, with images, youtube video pointing to the specific problems he faces. That way everyone in here will know the exact problems thru his whole career.

Would that make you happy? B)

Firstly, he's not injured.

Second, what do you want to do? Hand him 500k and hope for the best?

Recipe for disaster with this player.

One suspects that the club are also more than a little gunshy having watched how Davey's career has unfolded since his big fat payday.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

It's poignant you mention Chip Frawley because didn't he manage a stellar All-Australian year lasy year in an ordinary football team?

Col Sylvia will find consistency when he applies himself consistently. At all times. In all games.

He should be playing with the attitude "I'm going to help make this team a good football side through my efforts", not waiting for others around him to lift first.

If Chip can play an AA season, why can't he?

It all comes back to that word ... application.

So Chips season hasnt been as good as last years.... is he being lazy this year?? we should trade him.... he isnt living up to his potential

[QueenC 74]

We'll lose more than we gain from letting Sylvia go IMSO.

I don't think it is that simple.....

Yes, we know what we are going to get with Sylvia and that can be brilliant, but unfortunately often is little more than mediocre, with a pretty hefty dose of what can conceivably

be labelled as laziness or attitude thrown into the mix. The variable here, and this is something we all want, is Col himself taking the responsibility to make himself into a better,

more consistent footballer with more impact on all games. This has not happened thus far, so the odds of it happening now are questionable, but it is always a possibility.

So that would be the upside of holding onto him, but there is still that rather massive question mark hanging over him.

The other side of the coin is the trade option. Now of course this is an even bigger risk, because all draft choices carry a massive risk attached to them.

It would probably push things back given we are again having to develop a kid (or two) and we don't know exactly what they are going to be.

All we can minimally hope for is that they will/can be better than the traded player (our track record is ok'ish at this in recent times, see Gysberts and Grimes).

But the development must be done and in a few years we could be right back were we started, or loving the work of a great young player. All up in the air.

So I guess the question is, is it better to stick with the devil you know or go for the devil you don't?

And there are pros and cons on both of the arguments. What I personally hope for is for Sylvia to to take the choice away.

Take the deal the club is offering, prove your worth the money being paid, and make yourself into what we have always wanted you to be, and felt you should be.

Edited August 8, 2011 by QueenC

[beelzebub 22,297]

Seems the easy answer is to continually throw money hand over fist at underachievers in teh blind hope one or two might decide to actually play 4 qtrs of decent footy. Hell that works for me ...not!!

As much as its up to the player themselves to take responsibility for their effforts and contributions its also up to the club to manage itself in an acccountable manner. If it gets lazy in its scrutiny and standards then it will get exactly what it deserves....and we have. This has to change in order for us to change.

Cols 8 years into a career at Melbourne and all he has ever really produced other than a handful, literarly a handful of top performances , is a whole lot of " i might really turn it on one day"

This attitude isnt tolerated nor even allowed to develop at the really successful clubs and it ought not be acceptable to us...but it has been and some would still have it as ok.

Leopard, Spots !!

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I agree with you, QueenC. I hope the MFC puts a reasonable offer to Colin, he accepts it and then focusses upon being in the leadership group next year and winning the B&F.

I forgot to mention McLean for Gysberts, which is obviously the absolute no brainer deal of the century. But I don't think McLean has the same offering to us as Sylvia - and I also think we have more than enough talented 18 year olds who still need years of development.

We need some players like Sylvia who are hard, skilled, mature bodied types. I also don't think it's in the club's best interests for Sylvia to walk at season's end having just sacked Bailey and, it seems, the probability of also losing our number one draft pick.

SIgn him up now.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Ron Burgundy

[Guest hangon007]

Firstly, he's not injured.

Second, what do you want to do? Hand him 500k and hope for the best?

Recipe for disaster with this player.

One suspects that the club are also more than a little gunshy having watched how Davey's career has unfolded since his big fat payday.

I said he was "minor injured" this time ... I said he needed a "freshen up" ... a "1/2 week spell" in horse racing terms.

I'm talking in future ... we even can include diagrams for you.

Would that make you happy?

In thread I actually used the horse racing terms "spell & freshen up"

No the key reason was something different but I wont expect you to understand the principles of work loads & body stress.

$hit happens ... he needs a reduction in work load for a week or two. Even better do what Geelong do with Stevie J give him a week off for NO REASON other than to reduce the risk of burn out, reduce his work load.

I just thought of a better way to explain it for you ... think of racehorses.

Slyvia is better "fresh" almost like a sprinter, then he tapers .. hard bloody position he plays, heaps of hard knocks. Sometimes when you have a real "gut busting" run in horse racing terms you taper again.

Ultimately in racehorse terms you would be best to give him a "spell" ... but you cant you loss tooooooo much match fitness.

So effectively we are "freshening him up" via work-load management ... one of the other guys around here is a horseracing lover he can better explain the principles.

But I hope that helps YOU. B)

Edited August 8, 2011 by hangon007

[45HG 1,539]

Good news I think.. Sylv's manager discussing his contract this week with the Dees! Get it Dunn!!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/dumped-colin-sylvias-manager-to-meet-melbourne-this-week/story-e6frf9mf-1226111258781

You mean to tell me that after all this "Sylvia is gone - fact," he hasn't even started contract discussions?

[Guest hangon007]

You mean to tell me that after all this "Sylvia is gone - fact," he hasn't even started contract discussions?

His manger was on the radio this morning on SEN.

[Jock Strap 197]

His manger was on the radio this morning on SEN.

What did his manager have to say? Was he indicating Sylvia was wanting to stay, or looking at all options?

[Retrospective 104]

Sylvia believed to have played carrying a medial ligament problem all year......

And apparently having been flogged for a second straight week and deprived ourselves of any cahnce of redemption by sending Sylvia and Jurrah to Casey now they are OK to come back in......The Age today

Edited August 9, 2011 by Retrospective

[old55 21,620]

Sylvia believed to have played carrying a medial ligament problem all year......

And apparently having been flogged for a second straight week and deprived ourselves of any cahnce of redemption by sending Sylvia and Jurrah to Casey now they are OK to come back in......The Age today

The important bit is "defensive intent and structurally playing their roles".

[e25 5]

Bingo

[Real Demon 232]

We have to get away from this idea of just flicking players if they are down on form, or because their contracts are up, and they are looking for a better deal.

Sylvia is an absolutely required player for the MFC, and letting him go for some speculative draft pick is ridiculous.

Offensively, he is one of our most gifted players...............and he's isn't Robinson Crusoe when it comes to lacking defensive pressure either.....we have plenty in that category!

He would absolutely rip it up at any of the top teams in the comp, and any decision to trade him or let him leave will hurt the club.

How many midfielders do we have that can slot 55m goals on the run?

How midfielders do we have that can go forward and actually take contested marks?

If Colin isn't the player the club wants him to be, then they need to find a way to get him to the next level.

He has come a long way over the past few season, and I reckon he can take another step again as the team around him improves.

[beelzebub 22,297]

We have to get away from this idea of just flicking players if they are down on form, or because their contracts are up, and they are looking for a better deal.

Sylvia is an absolutely required player for the MFC, and letting him go for some speculative draft pick is ridiculous.

Offensively, he is one of our most gifted players...............and he's isn't Robinson Crusoe when it comes to lacking defensive pressure either.....we have plenty in that category!

He would absolutely rip it up at any of the top teams in the comp, and any decision to trade him or let him leave will hurt the club.

How many midfielders do we have that can slot 55m goals on the run?

How midfielders do we have that can go forward and actually take contested marks?

If Colin isn't the player the club wants him to be, then they need to find a way to get him to the next level.

He has come a long way over the past few season, and I reckon he can take another step again as the team around him improves.

Well how about we get away fronm the idea hes ever really been up on form !!

The suugestion that he would rip it up in other top teams suggests he really hasnt the A game himself but would rely on others giving him a leg up. Yeah I want to throw money at thatkind of p;layer.....Theyre called.. 1st class passnegers.

Seems odd to me that a player in the 'negotiating " frame isnt even able to get himself flying to self promote. This has been a past ploy of Bruce, Green, Davey, Robbo and OOze. Green also unable to show any form in a contract year.( this time_..but he has other worries. Slyvia hasnt...just needs to go out and 'rip it up"...but cant

People need to stop comparing him within our own team. Our team is riddled with holes. Compare Col to the outside world for a more robust assessment. and monetary level.

Hes not a midfielder. He an outside running flanker.

If Colin isnt the player the club wants...afterr 8 seasons, then the way forward is to get a player the club wants.

cant make silk out of a sours ear as they say..He is what he is....and always has been . A player dogged by inconsistent efforts despite having talent.

Bit like the school kids report. Has ability , needs to apply himself. its that simple. He has it, he doesnt do it. Has it all before him ....and doesnt.

A lot of people need to step back and observe our team and its constituent players a little more dispassionately and see many for what they are. Overpaid and underachieving.

It hurts to do so as many consider anyone in a Melbourne jumper beyond reproach. Theyre just footy players doing a job. Some not that well. Others beyond their reward.

Id like to be giving the likes of Jordie and Watts , Trennerrs , Gys etc some of the money that some of the "prima donnas " are getting under false pretences. Thses guys have only a couple of seasons behind them..and consisently put in....a concept Col wouldt know.

How about we move to retain real team players... real contributors...not the pretenders.

But there'll be a truck load of excuses no doubt , for Col...and all they are is that...excuses.

Edited August 9, 2011 by belzebub59

[old55 21,620]

Sylvia is an absolutely required player for the MFC, and letting him go for some speculative draft pick is ridiculous.

Paying him over the odds on a long contract is equally ridiculous.

I don't want to see him go for a draft pick - we've got enough of them. I don't particularly see a player trade that would be possible and benefit us - I'm open to suggestion though.

He can potentially be a big game winner, which we'll need. It's desirable to retain him - but not at ANY cost.

[Akum 2,660]

In the top sides, the midfield plays like a unit, a-team-within-the-team. Each player knows who's going where when, and they have plans for how to beat opposition midfields.

Ours plays like a group of individuals who are all trying to get the ball as best they can. They are very talented individuals - in fact, on sheer talent they can beat just about any other midfield that doesn't play as a unit, which is why we have won well i n some games this year. But they invariably get spanked against well-drilled midfields, as we are likely to see happen this Sunday.

If we are to ever become a top team, our midfield will have to play as a unit. When (if?) the new coach gets our midfield to do this is when we can judge the true value of players like Col. Until then, no matter how good they are as individuals, they will be rendered ineffective against top midfields.

[Range Rover 1,935]

We have to get away from this idea of just flicking players if they are down on form, or because their contracts are up, and they are looking for a better deal.

No-one's suggesting flicking him. Just not overpaying him.

He would absolutely rip it up at any of the top teams in the comp.

This is pure assumption. He may be just as inconsistent elsewhere. In fact, this is the more likely scenario.

How many midfielders do we have that can slot 55m goals on the run?

How many times does he actually do that in a season? Two, three maybe? Big deal! I'd prefer 22 games of the fundamentals.

If Colin isn't the player the club wants him to be, then they need to find a way to get him to the next level.

How about he finds a way to take himself to the next level?

He has come a long way over the past few season, and I reckon he can take another step again as the team around him improves.

He has made modest progress. Nothing to write home about. Some of you really need to lift your expectations on what it means to be a top line player at AFL level.

[Retrospective 104]

The important bit is "defensive intent and structurally playing their roles".

That is just self serving crap.......one game.....you could give that message and still have played them....but noone expects that the club is going to come out and say...."we over reacted, and we looked a lot worse because we didn't have you out there on the weekend"

[old dee 22,981]

Paying him over the odds on a long contract is equally ridiculous.

I don't want to see him go for a draft pick - we've got enough of them. I don't particularly see a player trade that would be possible and benefit us - I'm open to suggestion though.

He can potentially be a big game winner, which we'll need. It's desirable to retain him - but not at ANY cost.

spot on old55. thats what a few on here have missed he is not JC and should nit be paid as such.

He probably see this as his last contract as is trying to extract the max.

If he does not like our offer so be it

[beelzebub 22,297]

spot on old55. thats what a few on here have missed he is not JC and should nit be paid as such.

He probably see this as his last contract as is trying to extract the max.

If he does not like our offer so be it

Now you go stand in the naughty corner with Quenie..

What on earth are you doing spruiking realism ??

tsk tsk

Edited August 9, 2011 by belzebub59

[rpfc 27,633]

Guys get dropped.

[Retrospective 104]

Well how about we get away fronm the idea hes ever really been up on form !!

The suugestion that he would rip it up in other top teams suggests he really hasnt the A game himself but would rely on others giving him a leg up. Yeah I want to throw money at thatkind of p;layer.....Theyre called.. 1st class passnegers.

Seems odd to me that a player in the 'negotiating " frame isnt even able to get himself flying to self promote. This has been a past ploy of Bruce, Green, Davey, Robbo and OOze. Green also unable to show any form in a contract year.( this time_..but he has other worries. Slyvia hasnt...just needs to go out and 'rip it up"...but cant

People need to stop comparing him within our own team. Our team is riddled with holes. Compare Col to the outside world for a more robust assessment. and monetary level.

Hes not a midfielder. He an outside running flanker.

If Colin isnt the player the club wants...afterr 8 seasons, then the way forward is to get a player the club wants.

cant make silk out of a sours ear as they say..He is what he is....and always has been . A player dogged by inconsistent efforts despite having talent.

Bit like the school kids report. Has ability , needs to apply himself. its that simple. He has it, he doesnt do it. Has it all before him ....and doesnt.

A lot of people need to step back and observe our team and its constituent players a little more dispassionately and see many for what they are. Overpaid and underachieving.

It hurts to do so as many consider anyone in a Melbourne jumper beyond reproach. Theyre just footy players doing a job. Some not that well. Others beyond their reward.

Id like to be giving the likes of Jordie and Watts , Trennerrs , Gys etc some of the money that some of the "prima donnas " are getting under false pretences. Thses guys have only a couple of seasons behind them..and consisently put in....a concept Col wouldt know.

How about we move to retain real team players... real contributors...not the pretenders.

But there'll be a truck load of excuses no doubt , for Col...and all they are is that...excuses.

He is in our top 3 players, in a season where we have no structure or plan and he is carrying a medial ligament injury. Which of those is an excuse?

You sir risk being cast as a cad in the dogged pursuit of one player and with some deranged parallel universe view that if we get rid of Sylvia we will somehow improve as a team.

How do you judge him overpaid? Do you know what he is asking for?

What if he is saying "MFC your performance based pay scale is unacceptable because it has the wrong metrics and is too subjective" (maybe less eloquently)

You wouldn't know. Neither do I....but I see a talented footballer ,

2011

4th in Kicks

5th in HB

3rd in disposals

5th in contested marks

2nd in Tackles

2nd contested possessions

3rd in goalkicking accuracy

4th for running bounces

1st inside 50s

I'm not sure what you are watching

[beelzebub 22,297]

He is in our top 3 players, in a season where we have no structure or plan and he is carrying a medial ligament injury. Which of those is an excuse?

You sir risk being cast as a cad in the dogged pursuit of one player and with some deranged parallel universe view that if we get rid of Sylvia we will somehow improve as a team.

How do you judge him overpaid? Do you know what he is asking for?

What if he is saying "MFC your performance based pay scale is unacceptable because it has the wrong metrics and is too subjective" (maybe less eloquently)

You wouldn't know. Neither do I....but I see a talented footballer ,

2011

4th in Kicks

5th in HB

3rd in disposals

5th in contested marks

2nd in Tackles

2nd contested possessions

3rd in goalkicking accuracy

4th for running bounces

1st inside 50s

I'm not sure what you are watching

I'll risk that !! lol

The notion some think he's in the top 3 is with all repsect laughable.

Here's a quick list of those ahead of him

Watts, Trengove, Mckenzie, Frawley,Garland, Jamar, Martin

Dogged pursuit ?? Hardly. I simply refuse to lay down to those who'l continually make all the excuses under the sun for underperformers.

Be careful of stats. If you'll care to annalyse them you'll see his amasses most against lesser opposition.. and few against real pressure. Hes a junk time king.

Im happy and waiting for him to show me completely wrong.

Edited August 9, 2011 by belzebub59

[Deeoldfart 7,818]

Paying him over the odds on a long contract is equally ridiculous.

I don't want to see him go for a draft pick - we've got enough of them. I don't particularly see a player trade that would be possible and benefit us - I'm open to suggestion though.

He can potentially be a big game winner, which we'll need. It's desirable to retain him - but not at ANY cost.

Exactly!!