Schwab in the gun

[Demon Dynasty 15,721]

I find it amusing that a whole lot of rumours and allegations have somehow become 'fact'

We need to be cogniscent that some rumours may be true, some may be wrong and some may have a grain of truth

We must avoid just assuming that they are all true and let them go unchallenged

I have NFI which ones are true but I prefer to be sceptical unless a poster provides some corroborating info

A lot has been said about players being upset with CS or the 'administration' but so far I have yet to see anyone specify just what their complaints are. For all I know they are complaining about a lack of soap in the shower rooms.

+ 1 here

There may be some truth somewhere in amongst these theories and speculation, but until someone provides a real source that's close to the action.....

Although..... i have one theory of my own lol. And no, it has absolutely no foundation in truth or basis of fact lol. Just a theory.

Here it is....

Lets say during the week before the game against the Cats (or even earlier, say the week leading up to the Dorks match), Scully's management have approached the club, and maybe that approach and discussion involves CS directly or he's somehow gotten heavily involved in the meetings/discussions. Regardless of whether it's CS or others within the club....key figures/players/list managers within the club were approached directly and are in deep discussion.

Scully's management informs them that they wish to finalise a deal within the next week or so (ie., before season's end). That for some unknown reason, NOW is the time to finalise things and bring them to a head.

Scully's management inform the club, that the deal the MFC has offered him is close to the money, real close. He strongly prefers to remain at the club, however aside from some minor i's and t's, there's one major sticking point that stands between him signing with the MFC. Yep, you guessed it....

They say he's happy to sign, but only if Bailey is NOT a part of things coaching wise next year!!

CS/Others involved in the discussions approach the board. The board are leaning towards extending DB for another year or maybe just leaning towards re-signing him but haven't yet finalised the terms etc and have decided to leave this until after the season's end in order to more fairly assess things depending on how things pan out performance wise for the remaining games, including a potential finals birth.

The players somehow get wind of this. As one would expect in most tight nit organisations, there's eyes/ears and noses sniffing about in every corner. Someone gets a sniff and the rumours start to bounce. CS and/or others at the top, want DB out in order to retain Scully.

During the week CS and/or others convince the board that DB has to go at seasons end.

The board finally succumbs at some stage during the week, and DB is informed his contract will not be renewed at seasons end, even though he remains the coach and will see the season out.

To cut a long (potentially complete BS lol) story short.....

A few players in the leadership group (or the entire leadership group itself) get together somewhere, and together they come up with 'a very cunning plan' (Baldrick)!

They're going to protest against CS etc and the board's decision in order to make a point to them and the board, that they want DB in next year AND/OR that there's no way ONE solitary player (in his negotiations with the club) should be influencing the decision as to whether the present coach stays or goes next year, regardless of whether he does stay or go.

What sort of protest?.....well .... something like.... "Hey, if you think we're going to accept this crap from CS/the Board/others, think again! Maybe we just wont put in for a quarter or two. It could get worse if there's any further threat to DB's position. Tell CS/Others who instigated this push....To back off right now!". Ok maybe it's not that, but something along those lines.

The leadership group's intentions were never to lose by such a massive margin. They thought they were in control and feeling confident they could go with the Cats after a period of cruising early in the match to make their point.

Their plan was looking ok, up until the point that it dawned on them that the Cats weren't aware of the plan and they had 12 rookies in the team. In addition, the Cats had brought their AAA game into the match from the get go, as well as being fired up big time with the return of their spiritual veteran Cam Mooney. Too late to turn the match around and make it a moderate blow out. The momentum gone, the Cats smelt blood real early, and went for the jugular.

OOOPS..........Plan backfired...big time!

Scully's management (and CS/others in MFC) got what they wanted and now, more than likely, signs/stays.

Leadership group, or parts thereof.....ummm.... well, watch this space!

Call me crazy!

Edited August 3, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Sir Why You Little 34,685]

+ 1 here

There may be some truth somewhere in amongst these theories and speculation, but until someone provides a real source that's close to the action.....

Although..... i have one theory of my own lol. And no, it has absolutely no foundation in truth or basis of fact lol. Just a theory.

Here it is....

Lets say during the week before the game against the Cats (or even earlier, say the week leading up to the Dorks match), Scully's management have approached the club, and maybe that approach and discussion involves CS directly or he's somehow gotten heavily involved in the meetings/discussions. Regardless of whether it's CS or others within the club....key figures/players/list managers within the club were approached directly and are in deep discussion.

Scully's management informs them that they wish to finalise a deal within the next week or so (ie., before season's end). That for some unknown reason, NOW is the time to finalise things and bring them to a head.

Scully's management inform the club, that the deal the MFC has offered him is close to the money, real close. He strongly prefers to remain at the club, however aside from some minor i's and t's, there's one major sticking that stands between him signing with the MFC. Yep, you guessed it....

They say he's happy to sign, but only if Bailey is NOT a part of things coaching wise next year!!

CS/Others involved in the discussions approach the board. The board are leaning towards extending DB for another year or maybe just leaning towards re-signing him but haven't yet finalised the terms etc and have decided to leave this until after the season's end in order to more fairly assess things depending on how things pan out performance wise for the remaining games, including a potential finals birth.

The players somehow get wind of this. As one would expect in most tight nit organisations, there's eyes/ears and noses sniffing about in every corner. Someone gets a sniff and the rumours start to bounce. CS and/or others at the top, want DB out in order to retain Scully.

During the week CS and/or others convince the board that DB has to go at seasons end.

The board finally succumbs at some stage during the week, and DB is informed his contract will not be renewed at seasons end, even though he remains the coach and will see the season out.

To cut a long (potentially complete BS lol) story short.....

A few players in the leadership group (or the entire leadership group itself) get together somewhere, and together they come up a very cunning plan (BALDRICK!)!

They're going to protest against CS etc and the board's decision in order to make a point to them and the board, that they want DB in next year AND/OR that there's no way ONE solitary player (in his negotiations with the club) should be influencing the decision as to whether the present coach stays or goes next year, regardless of whether he does stay or go.

What sort of protest?.....well .... something like.... "Hey, if you think we're going to accept this crap from CS/the Board/others, think again! Maybe we just wont put in for a quarter or two. It could get worse if there's any further threat to DB's position. Tell CS/Others who instigated this push....To back off right now!". Ok maybe it's not that, but something along those lines.

The leadership group's intentions were never to lose by such a massive margin. They thought they were in control and feeling confident they could go with the Cats after a period of cruising early in the match to make their point.

Their plan was looking ok, up until the point that it dawned on them that the Cats weren't aware of the plan and they had 12 rookies in the team. In addition, the Cats had brought their AAA game into the match from the get go, as well as being fired up big time with the return of their spiritual veteran Cam Mooney. Too late to turn the match around and make it a moderate blow out. The momentum gone, the Cats smelt blood real early, and went for the jugular.

OOOPS..........Plan backfired...big time!

Scully's management (and CS/others in MFC) got what they wanted and now, more than likely, signs/stays.

Leadership group, or parts thereof.....ummm.... well, watch this space!

Call me crazy!

This is an HBO mini series waiting to happen!!!

[Demon Dynasty 15,721]

This is an HBO mini series waiting to happen!!!

lmao WYL

Heyy, you might have something here. We can use the profits (like there would be any!) for the FD spend.

As an aside, i'm particularly worried about CS. I think he may have stuck his nose in to too many corners player review/FD wise instead of sticking to his CEO defined role. Hopefully he's been put on notice if so.

I'm not yet convinced he's such a savior down there. He could well be part of some of the problems that are being speculated on around here and the media.

There may well be some truth to this 'Micro Manage' theory that's been doing the rounds on here for quite a while.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I find it amusing that a whole lot of rumours and allegations have somehow become 'fact'

We need to be cogniscent that some rumours may be true, some may be wrong and some may have a grain of truth

We must avoid just assuming that they are all true and let them go unchallenged

I have NFI which ones are true but I prefer to be sceptical unless a poster provides some corroborating info

A lot has been said about players being upset with CS or the 'administration' but so far I have yet to see anyone specify just what their complaints are. For all I know they are complaining about a lack of soap in the shower rooms.

Your first sentence is very pertinent. And some of the perennial post stirrers could take note. They seem to confuse rumour and personal speculation as fact and if they repeat the initial tripe then that acts as confirmation that it is true.

Caro Wilson's article in the Age this morning joins the dots on a lot of issues.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-demons-killed-the-coach-they-loved-but-saved-a-ceo-20110801-1i8az.html

This is a calamity that reaches right to the President and the Board.

This Club is now entering extremely rough waters.

[45HG 1,539]

If those list of grievances are real, and that's why the senior players were 'mentally shattered' I find it pathetic and slightly hard to believe.

Concentrate on your footy boys. Any premiership winning team will have ruthless list management. And senior players holding an emergency meeting to discuss the expensive end of season trip to China now? Honestly, sums it up.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,484]

Despite having his contract extended for another year CS position is now untenable. There will have to be a lot of mediation down there to get even a semblance of unity. How did the Board allow the Andrews Report to be swept under the carpet. Obviously the findings were too damning of certain people who took exception to it. I wonder if CS will see out his contract.

[daisycutter 28,635]

If those list of grievances are real, and that's why the senior players were 'mentally shattered' I find it pathetic and slightly hard to believe.

Concentrate on your footy boys. Any premiership winning team will have ruthless list management. And senior players holding an emergency meeting to discuss the expensive end of season trip to China now? Honestly, sums it up.

I'm with you HG

BTW where were Leading Teams through all this? Or are they part of the problem with players playing politics?

[daisycutter 28,635]

Your first sentence is very pertinent. And some of the perennial post stirrers could take note. They seem to confuse rumour and personal speculation as fact and if they repeat the initial tripe then that acts as confirmation that it is true.

Caro Wilson's article in the Age this morning joins the dots on a lot of issues.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-demons-killed-the-coach-they-loved-but-saved-a-ceo-20110801-1i8az.html

This is a calamity that reaches right to the President and the Board.

This Club is now entering extremely rough waters.

I don't know how much of this is truth, guesswork or hyperbole.......but the blood between the Wilsons and Schwabs is known to be poisoned

I'd prefer to remain a just little sceptical still until more 'facts' surface

[Longsufferingnomore 1,484]

I don't know how much of this is truth, guesswork or hyperbole.......but the blood between the Wilsons and Schwabs is known to be poisoned

I'd prefer to remain a just little sceptical still until more 'facts' surface

Is that between the fathers'

[beelzebub 22,255]

If those list of grievances are real, and that's why the senior players were 'mentally shattered' I find it pathetic and slightly hard to believe.

Concentrate on your footy boys. Any premiership winning team will have ruthless list management. And senior players holding an emergency meeting to discuss the expensive end of season trip to China now? Honestly, sums it up.

This is indeed a worrying aspect. Here we have a bunch of wannabe power brokers who ought to concentrate on something they are supposedly good at. Insttead they start poking their noses into areas thaey arent charged to concern themselves with. They seem to want to mould the course of the club where as they are there to do the playing side of things, not the design. I mean, how dare anyone aspire to build a 'premiership' model of a sporting outfit.. Some of these players need a swift kick in myopinion. Its acknowledged that the Jnr thing might have beenhandled better bit not the actual outcome. He was to be moved on.Time was up. Ifthe littel darlings cant handle that, thathteir tenure is a limnited thing, they they are all essentially a transient commodity then maybe they ought to get out of the game and find a Jim franchise..

Im sick of this sort of attitude.

Memo to Players..stick to your job...Play footy

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Memo to Players..stick to your job...Play footy

Whilst you're sending "stick to your job" memos, could you flick one to Schwab please?

Ta

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I don't know how much of this is truth, guesswork or hyperbole.......but the blood between the Wilsons and Schwabs is known to be poisoned

I'd prefer to remain a just little sceptical still until more 'facts' surface

Fair enough. But it does not look good.

And while the players should focus on the football, didnt the article say McLardy called the meeting to air grievances? Why did the Board leave it to now given they should have had the independent report on the FD at the start of the year?

[beelzebub 22,255]

Whilst you're sending "stick to your job" memos, could you flick one to Schwab please?

Ta

His job is to facilitate a club to be the best it can. His view is to run it by best practice ideals etc. Seems that upsets the cosiness of some, then Im all for it. Some seem to want to caost along in their warm and fuzzy little worlds where mediocrity is the eternal flavour of the day. Well diddums to them.

Heres a difference in basic attitude. We often see a Melbourne team take the field and play with no sense of urgency, no sense of carpe diem. Maybe Scwabby doesnt care for a club whos FD dept lives in a constant bubble of development. May be his vision is of actually gettting somewhere and if so Im with him.

[daisycutter 28,635]

Fair enough. But it does not look good.

And while the players should focus on the football, didnt the article say McLardy called the meeting to air grievances? Why did the Board leave it to now given they should have had the independent report on the FD at the start of the year?

Agree with you Rhino about not looking good

I said a few days ago that something stinks and has for most of the season

re players, wasn't LTs supposed to give players a reasonable moderated voice and resolve any tensions.

I get the impression someone has been throwing petrol around with players. Points back again to the leadership group

[rpfc 27,590]

We are all inferring to a certain extent here so we know hot to take everything as gospel but I understand how the players can be annoyed with Schwab and possibly his interference in the footy side of things but Connolly is the head of footy...

And the list of grievances in Caro's post is worth a thread itself...

The players don't like the Premiership Model?

The probably don't like it because it will cost them cash in the short term and their jobs in the long term.

And I couldn't care less.

From where I sit - everyone needs a rebuke. Schwab needs to stay in the front office, Viney needs to keep him there, Connolly needs to placate the players and their 'development worries,' and the players need to grow a pair and not let this simmer and explode like it obviously did last week and weekend.

The way the senior players handled this is an interesting juxtaposition to the way they play - they waited for things to get better through someone else's intervention, they were brought into the 'game' by others, and they come off looking self-interested and misguided.

And they ended up getting smashed...

I hope Schwab, Connolly and Green are having a chat in that theatrette at AAMI Park right now and telling the players what they are going to do to fix this BS.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree with you Rhino about not looking good

I said a few days ago that something stinks and has for most of the season

re players, wasn't LTs supposed to give players a reasonable moderated voice and resolve any tensions.

I get the impression someone has been throwing petrol around with players. Points back again to the leadership group

Did LTs report get provided to the Board when it was issued and what was done about it?

I know Stynes took hold of the Footy Department some months ago and CC and CS have gone to ground? What was happened since then up to when McLardy called the players meeting last week?

[beelzebub 22,255]

Could all make for an interesting AGM this year .

Only needs to be one question: Wtf is really going on ?

[Weedster 174]

We are all inferring to a certain extent here so we know hot to take everything as gospel but I understand how the players can be annoyed with Schwab and possibly his interference in the footy side of things but Connolly is the head of footy...

And the list of grievances in Caro's post is worth a thread itself...

The players don't like the Premiership Model?

The probably don't like it because it will cost them cash in the short term and their jobs in the long term.

And I couldn't care less.

From where I sit - everyone needs a rebuke. Schwab needs to stay in the front office, Viney needs to keep him there, Connolly needs to placate the players and their 'development worries,' and the players need to grow a pair and not let this simmer and explode like it obviously did last week and weekend.

The way the senior players handled this is an interesting juxtaposition to the way they play - they waited for things to get better through someone else's intervention, they were brought into the 'game' by others, and they come off looking self-interested and misguided.

And they ended up getting smashed...

I hope Schwab, Connolly and Green are having a chat in that theatrette at AAMI Park right now and telling the players what they are going to do to fix this BS.

So true. they all seem a bit too concerned about everyone else's roles & responsibilities. Stick to the linen !

[Whispering_Jack 28,021]

Like most Melbourne supporters I'm thoroughly sick of this entire situation although I'm aware that there are those in whose interests it is for the thing to continue to fester.

I received an email this morning from a friend who supports the Saints and who enquired about what was going on saying that I should know because I was in the "know". I'm definitely not and I'm no wiser than anyone else because I've heard half a dozen different versions from various sources which tells me there's no definitive explanation of what's going on ATM. I responded to my mate as follows:-

I’m not in the know but the only thing I know is that as in war, the first casualty when there are problems at football clubs is the truth.

Don’t believe what you read in the newspapers. They are a reflection of what a particular journalist might glean from whichever party is feeding him or her the information they impart to the punters.

Caroline Wilson is saying today that the playing group wanted Schwab out and Bailey reappointed and that, as of last Friday the playing group was supposed to have had their way. Schwab was allegedly gone and Bailey was going to get another year (this despite the criticisms of Bailey’s coaching from many segments of the media). In other words, if you believe Wilson, the players had achieved their victory.

Wilson then goes on to make this extraordinary statement:

“By Saturday, mentally shattered from the week's off-field distractions, the senior players barely fired a shot.”

So, Wilson would have us all believe that after winning the battle to remove the administrator the players wanted out and retaining the coach they loved, the senior players all stood around like bottles of stale piss while Geelong racked up a near record score and near record winning margin. Actually, it wasn’t the senior players alone, it was just about the entire playing list when you take into account the performance of Casey in the curtain raiser.

Whatever way you want to look at it, the players threw Bailey under a bus on Saturday and the board had no other alternative but to sack him.

If they have any pride left in their own ability as professionals after doing that, they will atone for spitting in the face of the club and supporters by their deeds on the field and then at the end of the season, they can each make up their minds about their playing futures.

I consider what they’ve done to be almost as contemptible as what your blokes and a few others inside and outside the football world did to that 17 year old schoolgirl.

End of rant.

I just had to get the part about the schoolgirl in to show that all clubs have skeletons in their closets and they will emerge when you least expect them.

Despite everything, I think Melbourne is closer to ultimate success than his team because it was the young blokes who were the only ones to stand up on Saturday and that justifies a great deal of what's been done at the club in the name of list management.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

His job is to facilitate a club to be the best it can. His view is to run it by best practice ideals etc. Seems that upsets the cosiness of some, then Im all for it. Some seem to want to caost along in their warm and fuzzy little worlds where mediocrity is the eternal flavour of the day. Well diddums to them.

Heres a difference in basic attitude. We often see a Melbourne team take the field and play with no sense of urgency, no sense of carpe diem. Maybe Scwabby doesnt care for a club whos FD dept lives in a constant bubble of development. May be his vision is of actually gettting somewhere and if so Im with him.

Well then maybe Schwabby should have looked at replacing the General Manager of Football then so he could get back to looking after the club's finances or desiging logos or whatever he is supposed to be doing. Hard when it's your mate though.

Are you giving credit to Schwab for interfering in the football department more than he should have or less?

[timD 994]

Like most Melbourne supporters I'm thoroughly sick of this entire situation although I'm aware that there are those in whose interests it is for the thing to continue to fester.

I received an email this morning from a friend who supports the Saints and who enquired about what was going on saying that I should know because I was in the "know". I'm definitely not and I'm no wiser than anyone else because I've heard half a dozen different versions from various sources which tells me there's no definitive explanation of what's going on ATM. I responded to my mate as follows:-

I just had to get the part about the schoolgirl in to show that all clubs have skeletons in their closets and they will emerge when you least expect them.

Despite everything, I think Melbourne is closer to ultimate success than his team because it was the young blokes who were the only ones to stand up on Saturday and that justifies a great deal of what's been done at the club in the name of list management.

BANG!

Why don't you say what you think, Jack, without resorting to metaphor and hyperbole?

Remind me never to get you angry (and then leave you near a keyboard).

Nice response, BTW.

[beelzebub 22,255]

.............

Despite everything, I think Melbourne is closer to ultimate success than his team because it was the young blokes who were the only ones to stand up on Saturday and that justifies a great deal of what's been done at the club in the name of list management.

this ^

not to take anything away form tehrest of the post but this resonated the most, to me.

This club is literally upside down at times. The Younger, clearer of focus minds are the ones with the eye on the ball. The older ones seem far too preoccupied with their 'selves" ...their matey matey-ness. The kids want to play footy, good hard at it footy. Their bodies scupper them at times but the wil lis their. The older bigger players want to play politics.When did that come into their briefs ?

Ive often had time for Caro but shes just being plain mischievious at present.

Theres still the odour of rotting fish

[Weedster 174]

Well then maybe Schwabby should have looked at replacing the General Manager of Football then so he could get back to looking after the club's finances or desiging logos or whatever he is supposed to be doing. Hard when it's your mate though.

Are you giving credit to Schwab for interfering in the football department more than he should have or less?

I don't know how hard it is to define and agree roles - pretty simple really - go down to Geelong and copy the Cook / Balme model which seems to work fine, AND THEN STICK TO IT! It is not rocket science

[rumpole 480]

The overwhelming majority of players and coaches reportedly favoured Bailey as senior coach. By the time they met Stynes last week, several players had reached boiling point. By Friday, when the team travelled with the coaching staff to Geelong, the coaches and the senior players believed that Schwab was about to be sacked.

By Saturday, mentally shattered from the week's off-field distractions, the senior players barely fired a shot. Green had one touch in the first half. - Caroline Wilson in Today's Age -

How Demons killed the coach they loved, but saved a CEO

Sorry but that line from Caroline Wilson simply beggars belief. It serves her argument well but doesn't hold water on a number of levels. If the Age sports reading public accept this then they believe in the tooth fairy and Father Christmas (sorry kiddies). What an absolute disgraceful piece of reporting from someone so senior in their newspaper!

Shameful.

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

Whilst you're sending "stick to your job" memos, could you flick one to Schwab please?

Ta

Schwab did what he should have done earlier .Sack Bailey .

The players should shut the f*&k up and get a kick .

If they think the MFC is some kind of democratic institution then they should read the fine print in their contract that says "run until I say stop you dog".