Second tier Clubs

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

I was just reading the article about David Smorgon's time being up at the Bulldogs and it got me to thinking.

Are the achievements of clubs like the Western Bulldogs actually more significant than that of clubs like Collingwood? OR should we be expecting guys like Smorgon, Jimmy, Brayshaw & Co. to be lifting their clubs to the level of the Magpies?

I guess this delves into the progessive nature of the sport but it could be argued that by making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business, Collingwood have been able to essentially purchase a premiership. If we make restrictions on clubs like Collingwood, we may end up with a more even competition that rewards the clubs that are good at running the football side of their club, but at what cost? The Magpies continually set new benchmarks for professionalism and it could also be argued that is it weren't for clubs like Collingwood, the fitness, athleticism, attitude of players, and therefore the game, would not be what it is today.

Any thoughts?

Edited June 7, 2011 by WAClark

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

I was just reading the article about David Smorgon's time being up at the Bulldogs and it got me to thinking.

Are the achievements of clubs like the Western Bulldogs actually more significant than that of clubs like Collingwood? OR should we be expecting guys like Smorgon, Jimmy, Brayshaw & Co. to be lifting their clubs to the level of the Magpies?

I guess this delves into the progessive nature of the sport but it could be argued that by making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business, Collingwood have been able to essentially purchase a premiership. If we make restrictions on clubs like Collingwood, we may end up with a more even competition that rewards the clubs that are good at running the football side of their club, but at what cost? The Magpies continually set new benchmarks for professionalism and it could also be argued that is it weren't for clubs like Collingwood, the fitness, athleticism, attitude of players, and therefore the game, would not be what it is today.

Any thoughts?

The Bulldogs original deal at Etihad was shocking which made their brittle situation only worse.

Yes they made 3 Preliminary Finals, but were never Really close to winning a Grand Final.

Clubs must live or die on being inventive and Proactive...Including us.

Smorgon is a nice bloke, but no genius. 6/10

[Roost It 1,434]

7.5/10

[old55 21,400]

I was just reading the article about David Smorgon's time being up at the Bulldogs and it got me to thinking.

Are the achievements of clubs like the Western Bulldogs actually more significant than that of clubs like Collingwood? OR should we be expecting guys like Smorgon, Jimmy, Brayshaw & Co. to be lifting their clubs to the level of the Magpies?

I guess this delves into the progessive nature of the sport but it could be argued that by making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business, Collingwood have been able to essentially purchase a premiership. If we make restrictions on clubs like Collingwood, we may end up with a more even competition that rewards the clubs that are good at running the football side of their club, but at what cost? The Magpies continually set new benchmarks for professionalism and it could also be argued that is it weren't for clubs like Collingwood, the fitness, athleticism, attitude of players, and therefore the game, would not be what it is today.

Any thoughts?

I don't think Collingwood are "making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business" look at their pub ventures. They've leveraged a huge supporter base into big $s and Eddie has done a good job building membership and sponsorship. Collingwood have to spend the money on something and their football department benefits. If clubs like the Dogs, North or Melbourne can win a flag in this environment against the mega rich Colingwood, West Coast and Adelaide, and the AFL backed franchises Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast and GWS then it will be a minor miracle. I'd say the clubs which have maximised their opportunities the best are Geelong and Hawthorn - Geelong have got a unique stadium position and have really done it well, the Hawks have used Tassie beautifully. The Cats benefitted from great recruiting and the F/S and Hawthorn's list management has been very good too - they're the clubs I admire. FMD, if Collingwood, Essendon, WC and Adelaide don't win flags there's something seriously wrong with them.

[Dockett 32 1,213]

Probably could also throw Carlton with the lot you mention old 55.

But you have to have a few challenges in life, just too easy to support Collingwood and the rest of them. I mean they are just are the safe option for the front runners.

Supporting the Demons or Bulldogs on the other hand is a vastly different proposition and takes you to all sorts of new difficult places and experiences.

Good for the soul!

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

I don't think Collingwood are "making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business" look at their pub ventures. They've leveraged a huge supporter base into big $s and Eddie has done a good job building membership and sponsorship. Collingwood have to spend the money on something and their football department benefits. If clubs like the Dogs, North or Melbourne can win a flag in this environment against the mega rich Colingwood, West Coast and Adelaide, and the AFL backed franchises Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast and GWS then it will be a minor miracle. I'd say the clubs which have maximised their opportunities the best are Geelong and Hawthorn - Geelong have got a unique stadium position and have really done it well, the Hawks have used Tassie beautifully. The Cats benefitted from great recruiting and the F/S and Hawthorn's list management has been very good too - they're the clubs I admire. FMD, if Collingwood, Essendon, WC and Adelaide don't win flags there's something seriously wrong with them.

Yeah spot on, it interests me that Collingwood is able to spend a ridiculous amount of money sending guys overseas mid-season for recovery. Part of me feels like this sort of thing is a little unfair given the costs involved, while on the other hand, it's good to see the boundaries expanded in terms of professionalism.

[old dee 22,945]

Probably could also throw Carlton with the lot you mention old 55.

But you have to have a few challenges in life, just too easy to support Collingwood and the rest of them. I mean they are just are the safe option for the front runners.

Supporting the Demons or Bulldogs on the other hand is a vastly different proposition and takes you to all sorts of new difficult places and experiences.

Good for the soul!

Yes like lots of depression!

[Radar Detector 1,339]

Yeah spot on, it interests me that Collingwood is able to spend a ridiculous amount of money sending guys overseas mid-season for recovery. Part of me feels like this sort of thing is a little unfair given the costs involved, while on the other hand, it's good to see the boundaries expanded in terms of professionalism.

It's also good to see Dane Swan boarding a plane for Arizona this week.

[old dee 22,945]

It's also good to see Dane Swan boarding a plane for Arizona this week.

Only bettered by Daisy's appeal being turned down tonight

[Kento80 83]

Yeah spot on, it interests me that Collingwood is able to spend a ridiculous amount of money sending guys overseas mid-season for recovery. Part of me feels like this sort of thing is a little unfair given the costs involved, while on the other hand, it's good to see the boundaries expanded in terms of professionalism.

Whilst I agree it is unfair, there always needs to be a trailblazer. Eventually all the other clubs catch up. Only trouble is that in the meantime the mega club has gone on and found other ways that still keep them ahead of the curve. I struggle with this topic, because on one hand I believe that the clubs that maximise their opportunities and turn them into money/power deserve the spoils of their good work, but on the other hand I cannot stand the thought of the AFL becoming like the EPL where only a small handful of teams have any realistic chance at all of winning. The other trouble is that over the course of generations you will find more and more supporters following the powerful clubs, making them even more powerful and giving them an even bigger stranglehold on the game. Clubs such as the interstate clubs don't have this effect on as great a level, because there is not enough teams to dilute their fanbase, but for Melbourne clubs it will become real difficult. I pesonally have a few friends who are rabid Dees fans and raised their kids as such, only to watch their kids shift their allegiances to the filth over the last few years because they wanted to follow a winning team and not get hassled at school. And let's be honest, what kid not want to follow a winning team (and also avoid getting hassled at school)? I hope and pray this doesn't happen with my kids, I couldn't cope (although living in NSW I would cope much worse if they grew up and followed Thugby League ) I don't know what is the answer is here, but I reckon it is a bit of an issue, and will probably only become more so.

[bush demon 1,901]

Fate deals a strange hand. Until an unlucky bounce last September Collingwood had WON one premiership since 1958, (in 1990) and two since 1939. They had become perennial finalists before this but collapsed and were mocked roundly since the 60's as the 'colliwobbles'. Having said that, I admire what they have been able to do without bottoming out. another piece of trivia: collingwood have been defeated by melbourne in approx 15 of their last 16 finals outings.

I was just reading the article about David Smorgon's time being up at the Bulldogs and it got me to thinking.

Are the achievements of clubs like the Western Bulldogs actually more significant than that of clubs like Collingwood? OR should we be expecting guys like Smorgon, Jimmy, Brayshaw & Co. to be lifting their clubs to the level of the Magpies?

I guess this delves into the progessive nature of the sport but it could be argued that by making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business, Collingwood have been able to essentially purchase a premiership. If we make restrictions on clubs like Collingwood, we may end up with a more even competition that rewards the clubs that are good at running the football side of their club, but at what cost? The Magpies continually set new benchmarks for professionalism and it could also be argued that is it weren't for clubs like Collingwood, the fitness, athleticism, attitude of players, and therefore the game, would not be what it is today.

Any thoughts?

Edited June 7, 2011 by bush demon

[daisycutter 28,630]

Only bettered by Daisy's appeal being turned down tonight

A few years ago Collingwood took the team to NZ for their end of season rip.

They said the average IQ on both sides of the ditch went UP

Boom-boom

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

Whilst I agree it is unfair, there always needs to be a trailblazer. Eventually all the other clubs catch up. Only trouble is that in the meantime the mega club has gone on and found other ways that still keep them ahead of the curve. I struggle with this topic, because on one hand I believe that the clubs that maximise their opportunities and turn them into money/power deserve the spoils of their good work, but on the other hand I cannot stand the thought of the AFL becoming like the EPL where only a small handful of teams have any realistic chance at all of winning. The other trouble is that over the course of generations you will find more and more supporters following the powerful clubs, making them even more powerful and giving them an even bigger stranglehold on the game. Clubs such as the interstate clubs don't have this effect on as great a level, because there is not enough teams to dilute their fanbase, but for Melbourne clubs it will become real difficult. I pesonally have a few friends who are rabid Dees fans and raised their kids as such, only to watch their kids shift their allegiances to the filth over the last few years because they wanted to follow a winning team and not get hassled at school. And let's be honest, what kid not want to follow a winning team (and also avoid getting hassled at school)? I hope and pray this doesn't happen with my kids, I couldn't cope (although living in NSW I would cope much worse if they grew up and followed Thugby League ) I don't know what is the answer is here, but I reckon it is a bit of an issue, and will probably only become more so.

It's not unfair....The have a huge supporter base, Fact. We need to build ours, we missed at least 2 generations, particularly in the 70's when TV replays were standard house hold viewing.

In 10 years we could well be using the same Arizona Camp paid for by our 60,000 membership.

If the Footscrays Noth, and Port Adelaides or even the MFC, cannot pay the bills and expand they will not survive...Football will.

Edited June 7, 2011 by why you little

[dee-luded 2,958]

I was just reading the article about David Smorgon's time being up at the Bulldogs and it got me to thinking.

Are the achievements of clubs like the Western Bulldogs actually more significant than that of clubs like Collingwood? OR should we be expecting guys like Smorgon, Jimmy, Brayshaw & Co. to be lifting their clubs to the level of the Magpies?

I guess this delves into the progessive nature of the sport but it could be argued that by making sound outside investment and being good at non-football related business, Collingwood have been able to essentially purchase a premiership. If we make restrictions on clubs like Collingwood, we may end up with a more even competition that rewards the clubs that are good at running the football side of their club, but at what cost? The Magpies continually set new benchmarks for professionalism and it could also be argued that is it weren't for clubs like Collingwood, the fitness, athleticism, attitude of players, and therefore the game, would not be what it is today.

Any thoughts?

A perennial loser club,,, thats trying to learn the 'Culture of Winning'... Smorgan Has done a Fantastic job.

They now have to consolidate this platform of 4th/ 5th/ 6th ladder position area, to relaunch from to the Reach the Summit.

* IMO Smorgan should stay now whilst their under the pump this year. They require his stable leadership. The coaching thing will need to be worked through carefully with a steady hand.

Edited June 7, 2011 by dee-luded

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

A perennial loser club,,, thats trying to learn the 'Culture of Winning'... Smorgan Has done a Fantastic job.

They now have to consolidate this platform of 4th/ 5th/ 6th ladder position area, to relaunch from to the Reach the Summit.

You forgot to mention the Etihad Stadium deal he allowed to go through, which is pretty much why they are in $5 mill debt (now 4)