The Tom Scully Saga

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That's just it Rhino....Nobody knows the true Facts, and that's why certain clubs have been screwed, although i am sure you will now write 10 elongated paragraphs telling me i am wrong.

Off ya go....

I am going to keep it very simple for you

First you say "Nobody knows the true facts" when its a case that you dont know the true facts and you dont know what information the Clubs had or how long they had to consider the vote.

Clearly your factless festering has you convinced buts its based not on substance and it happens so often and its pointed out by many posters but you keep doing it. Its truly weird.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Im not letting the administrations off the hook - I honestly think that this wasnt thought thru and should have been.

Why didnt any club assess the rule ?

North with Bastinac

Richmond with Martin

MFC with Scully Trengove etc

These three clubs are at least negligent in the questioning of the rules at the time.

Maybe Cam was incensed at what March said after the event because he didnt want to look like a dick

This along with a smidge of WYL's idea that it was all a bit slap dash and rudely quick .

We f#$%ed up as did 16 other clubs however we as bearers of the best picks stood the most to lose should we be targeted and hey, guess what.. we are.

We got caught well and truly with our pants down here but all things considered it hasnt been helped one iota by the sly underhandedness and crafty bottom card dealing of the AFL.

Its no wonder Vlad throws it all back at us as thats been the design all along. Its currently all about getting GWS up and running . Its al labout Vlads empire and bragging rights in Sin City. Its about his compulsion to go where no fottballer has gone before !! Its baby out with the bathwater effectively but its all right as long as the greater vision of Vlad is served.

WE GOT CONNED...we werent alone but we ought to have been far more alert.

[45HG 1,539]

I've posted this before but here goes again - I'm struggling to see why people think it's more unfair that Tom Scully can be targeted than it is that Marc Murphy can be targeted? From Carlton's perspective they've invested more in Murphy and are just starting to reap the rewards. If there was a service limit on GC/GWS targets it would need to be pretty long - like the free agency 8 years and that probably doesn't give them sufficient advantage. The fact is they need decent concessions and we're potentially collateral damage - the only way out is a fair compensation deal. I don't think Geelong got that with Ablett - he's worth more that 2 mid 1st rounders and so would Brendan Goddard, Marc Murphy and Tom Scully be.

Marc Murphy re-signed didn't he?

[beelzebub 22,225]

There are two issues really here...related but distinct.

1) The unenviable position Melbourne finds itslef , along with other clubs , that they can have players nicked from under their noses, with dubious and unspecified conpensations.

2) The direction Scully's career will take

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Hyperbole.

Maybe CS thought the deal was fair?

Maybe he didn't and voted against it, but the majority ruled?

I think we have backed ourselves to keep our players, as we should.

It's not ideal, but we didn't get conned.

That's rubbish.

In the end, if he stays, as he will, what is the issue?

[grant 10]

[

Agree.

I just feel we had more to lose than any other club with Scully, Trengove and Watts.

We should have rallied the other Vic Clubs because clearly they all have something at stake.

Truly do you ever stop to actually get the true facts of what actually happened? Rather than concocting naive (and while I was asleep) conspiracy theories that even the most foolish person would say "I think there's something not right here".

There was no vote. The word "vote" implies a democratic process,of which there was none. It was demetrios way or the highway and all the clubs knew that.

And your little precedent argument ignores the fact that the White deal involved pick 2 and 18 as consideration. If those picks were on the table for Scully this whole saga would be a lot easier to swallow.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Hyperbole.

Not really..extrapolation perhaps..but hyperbole ...thats but a view

Maybe CS thought the deal was fair?

Then maybe he was wrong !!

Maybe he didn't and voted against it, but the majority ruled?

Supposition ..Its never really been said how all that actually panned out. We only know the result, not the path.

I think we have backed ourselves to keep our players, as we should.

It's not ideal, but we didn't get conned.

That's rubbish.

Not ideal ?? Makes it sound like its almost OK, and its not, far from it.

Nahh..not conned at all...were sitting pretty on this... totally !! The AFL didnt have any agenda..nah, nah, nah !!

In the end, if he stays, as he will, what is the issue?

IF.... hey thats just a little inconsequential word isnt it ? Hardly worth noting.. IFs as good as a definite to a blind horse

[Demon Dynasty 15,461]

Where they were chosen originally is irrelevant to the fact that there is a mechanism that would "compensate" the losing Club. Clearly Scully has yet to reach his potential and the compensation may not accommodate the future value of him like an established player in Ablett

The issue was being highlighted was that saying to a currently contracted player than you cant play until you sign the contract for next season has implications for Scully as it does for all other players. And applying just to Scully when he and his management have already said that he would wait until year end is a perfect way to encourage him to go North (if he has not signed already) and sends a message to other players and their managers as to how MFC may conduct future matters. Not a sensible option.

Well done. In highlight my opinion you might be guilty of double standards. I am not sure why feel guilty of hand wringing but so be it. And where have people been denied the right of comment?? If they dont want their comments evaluated on this forum by others then they should get a blog and turn the reply box to off. But FWIW, there has been absolute rubbish on this thread as there has been on some of the other ad nauseam threads on Scully. But remember its just my opinion and there are some contributors that are very good and provide thoughtful insightful views. But like a number of threads they are in chronic short supply.

Also, why do need to post in Comic Sans font? IMO it adds little to the site and is unnecessary (Chill...I started with IMO! B) )

Which double standards lol? What guilt lol? You're use of the word guilt implies that anyone that doesn't quite respond in the manner which you (and RPFC) approve of must be guilty of a Demonland offence! (teehee)

Wasn't saying you're denying them a right as such, just comments from you and RPFC that allude to the fact that most comments on this re: Scully not being played if he hasn't signed are crap and those writing them are full of crap lol. I was one of them although what i was saying was press for a more definite outcome by pushing for an 'in principle' agreement in the next 4 weeks. If it falls over, and he refuses to sign, IMO he's shown his hand. If so, we then look to get 8 -10 games into alternatives. Nathan Thompson said exactly the same this evening on SEN just out of interest. Not that his backing makes it a sound argument.

As for my use of comic sans.....heyy....it got a response out of you Rhino. That's a pretty good reason i reckon! Oh, if you dislike it so much.....you could always get it removed as a font option! Ummm....the IMO bit means you're kind of joking yeh?

Edited June 16, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Roost It 1,434]

Hyperbole.

Maybe CS thought the deal was fair?

Maybe he didn't and voted against it, but the majority ruled?

I think we have backed ourselves to keep our players, as we should.

It's not ideal, but we didn't get conned.

That's rubbish.

In the end, if he stays, as he will, what is the issue?

The issue is that as a 2nd year priority pick Scully should not be able to be on the GWS radar. He was given to us because we were no good and now he could be taken away with little compensation. It's a shocking rule and a mistake by those involved. If CS thought the deal was fair he's a dimwit, end of story. The fact you can not see this know means in your eyes the club has yet to make a mistake on any issue. I no longer believe you work for the club because surely they wouldn't be that obvious.

[Demon Dynasty 15,461]

This along with a smidge of WYL's idea that it was all a bit slap dash and rudely quick .

We f#$%ed up as did 16 other clubs however we as bearers of the best picks stood the most to lose should we be targeted and hey, guess what.. we are.

We got caught well and truly with our pants down here but all things considered it hasnt been helped one iota by the sly underhandedness and crafty bottom card dealing of the AFL.

Its no wonder Vlad throws it all back at us as thats been the design all along. Its currently all about getting GWS up and running . Its al labout Vlads empire and bragging rights in Sin City. Its about his compulsion to go where no fottballer has gone before !! Its baby out with the bathwater effectively but its all right as long as the greater vision of Vlad is served.

WE GOT CONNED...we werent alone but we ought to have been far more alert.

Nice lol. I have a strong feeling this may have happened to us and other lessor clubs a few times before BZ. Seems we haven't learnt much.

Next planet China maybe?? Hang on we went there already didn't we Maybe that's what we were planning/doing while the AFL was shafting everyone over the GCS/GWS arrangement

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

There was no vote. The word "vote" implies a democratic process,of which there was none. It was demetrios way or the highway and all the clubs knew that.

And your little precedent argument ignores the fact that the White deal involved pick 2 and 18 as consideration. If those picks were on the table for Scully this whole saga would be a lot easier to swallow.

How do you know what went on? Your Demetriou highway is just another cheap conspiracy theory that panders to your lack of knowledge on the issue.

The fact is irrelevant as the precedent establishes that 2nd years players do actually move clubs. Even if we got picks 2 and 18 MFC are still stuffed because we lose a young player who was rightly rated the best draft player in his year and has shown that he has all the atributes of being elite. However it is better compensation but does not ease the pain.

Which double standards lol? What guilt lol? You're use of the word guilt implies that anyone that doesn't quite respond in the manner which you (and RPFC) approve of must be guilty of a Demonland offence! (teehee)

I knew you probably wouldnt get it. lol. And your implication is also wrong as well. lol.

Wasn't saying you're denying them a right as such, just comments from you and RPFC that allude to the fact that most comments on this re: Scully not being played if he hasn't signed are crap and those writing them are full of crap lol. I was one of them although what i was saying was press for a more definite outcome by pushing for an 'in principle' agreement in the next 4 weeks. If it falls over, and he refuses to sign, IMO he's shown his hand. If so, we then look to get 8 -10 games into alternatives. Nathan Thompson said exactly the same this evening on SEN just out of interest. Not that his backing makes it a sound argument.

lol. Well done for trying to misstate what I had said about other posters. lol (its catching). Once again you align yourself with some criticised element on the site. Why do you do it? From the position MFC is in now then by pushing the issue with an in principle agreement. lol. Is an in principle agreement an agreement you have when you dont have an agreement? lol.

His management has already said he will consider his contract at year end. Doing what you have said will surely push he and his management away from MFC which would be bad. If he refuses to sign then it going to look pretty stupid on the Club if he has not signed with GWS. Its a terrible predicament but it calls for wiser heads in this situation. And you are right Nathan Thompson is not one of them.

As for my use of comic sans.....heyy....it got a response out of you Rhino. That's a pretty good reason i reckon! Oh, if you dislike it so much.....you could always get it removed as a font option! Ummm....the IMO bit means you're kind of joking yeh?

/font]

lol you jokester.

Does not explain why you need to do it. Do you have any other tricks?

[biggestred 4,310]

25 pages, really?

[Sir Why You Little 34,490]

There was no vote. The word "vote" implies a democratic process,of which there was none. It was demetrios way or the highway and all the clubs knew that.

This is the way i view it, and you are right i do not know all the facts as none of us do.

But i still cannot believe that 16 Presidents voted Unanimously for the current draft arrangements we are under for the next 2-3 years, over the course of a couple of hours in one night

If it was a majority vote with rumblings from some i could deal with it..But it has always been reported as unanimous.

Not one of the 16 clubs benefits from this apart from coin, and we all know how quickly that can be spent.

The Commission runs the AFL not the clubs, so i think the whole thing was set in stone well beforehand...The Presidents were basically told this is how it's going to be.

If anyone does know some solid facts on what happened please tell me. I rang the club at the time of the vote but was given no information.

By the end of next year we could lose Scully-Trengove/Watts/Gysberts, any of that combination, making a lot of the last 4 years Redundant.

Why would CS vote in favour of that?? and if so what and where are the sweeteners??

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

By the end of next year we could lose Scully-Trengove/Watts/Gysberts ...

I guess this thread and its predecessors are just a practice run for next year's onslaught of "Trengove/Watts/Gysberts is leaving omg" threads.

There should be some well-honed wailers and gnashers of teeth on here by then.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

... and you are right i do not know all the facts as none of us do.

But i still cannot believe that 16 Presidents voted Unanimously for the current draft arrangements we are under for the next 2-3 years, over the course of a couple of hours in one night

Well done on the 1st sentence. But on what "facts" do you base your belief in the existence of the "vote" "over the course of a couple of hours in one night"?

How do you know it went to a vote? And given the issue had been on the AFL agenda for a number of years what information do you was given to the Club directors beforehand? Do you understand what right of response Club directors had to the proposals put before it?

[Guest Artie Bucco]

When has it EVER been reported as a unanimous decision on the expansion concessions?

The media purposely imply that it was to suit their agenda.

It has never been specified, to my knowledge.

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

I can't get over the amount of carry on about this Scully thing.

Half the posters here are like a bunch of teenage girls. "OMG OMG Justin Beiber has a girlfriend my life is over."

You can't influence it, so just wait patiently for the fateful day when we know either way.

[Sir Why You Little 34,490]

When has it EVER been reported as a unanimous decision on the expansion concessions?

The media purposely imply that it was to suit their agenda.

It has never been specified, to my knowledge.

The morning after the vote both SEN & 774 reported it was a unanimous 16 President vote.

I heard it on both stations, that is what i base it on. Now if it wasn't that makes it even more murky.

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

The media purposely imply that it was to suit their agenda.

Hang on! Aren't you the one with an agenda?

Now it seems everyone's got one.

How does one know what to believe in these dark times?

[Sir Why You Little 34,490]

Well done on the 1st sentence. But on what "facts" do you base your belief in the existence of the "vote" "over the course of a couple of hours in one night"?

How do you know it went to a vote? And given the issue had been on the AFL agenda for a number of years what information do you was given to the Club directors beforehand? Do you understand what right of response Club directors had to the proposals put before it?

I can only go on what was reported, as nothing was ever disclosed to members...It should have been of course, but the Commission are not silly. Why waste time letting members vote on such a huge issue?

We turn up to games regardless & they know it.

I am not disputing what you Rhino or anyone has said on this issue tonight. I will just never understand how those draft concessions were Unanimously voted for in one sitting.

It could well be the most important decision the Clubs make, & it looks to me like they rolled over sadly.

[Jaded No More 57,934]

Pretty interesting this tiny little article on the HS website... Tom Scully's future a secret: Ryan Bastinac

Bastinac is one of Scully's best friends. He says he is staying at North (clearly he isn't getting the cash thrown at him by GWS B)).

On Scully:

"He's probably got his mind made up and knows what he's going to do," Bastinac, 19, said. "I do feel for him a little bit, but knowing him well I know it's not going to get to him at all.

"He will definitely make the right decision for him and the footy club."

Make of that what you will. I suppose it's good that the lure of playing with his best mate up in GWS is not going to be an issue, and the fact that Bastinac mentions he'll do the right think by the club means he probably does feel a sense of loyalty and responsibility. Bailey mentioned on SEN tonight that Scully feels like he can be a part of, and take this club to a successful era, and I suppose when it comes down to it, his main motivation will continue to be premiership success (something that Ablett had already experienced, and that the other established players who went to GWS couldn't see happening at their previous clubs... Brisbane Lions anyone?!)

Funny how I'm in negotiations with my employer for a promotion, and even though one role has more money than another, my heart is really pushing me towards the lesser paid role because I can see it leading to greater success in my career. Sometimes it's not all about money (not that anyone is throwing millions at me )

[Guest Artie Bucco]

I haven't wavered.

Neither will he.

Scully is going nowhere.

[brey9186 102]

I thought Bastinacs parents had signed a HOA with GWS for Scully, and Scullys parents for Bastinac!! lol @ rumours

This should be the clearest sign Scully is staying, GWS were obviously into them both, as it wouldv'e been indeal to bring them up together, best mates through out their whole junior footy ect

Edited June 16, 2011 by brey9186

[Sir Why You Little 34,490]

Pretty interesting this tiny little article on the HS website... Tom Scully's future a secret: Ryan Bastinac

Bastinac is one of Scully's best friends. He says he is staying at North (clearly he isn't getting the cash thrown at him by GWS B)).

On Scully:

"He's probably got his mind made up and knows what he's going to do," Bastinac, 19, said. "I do feel for him a little bit, but knowing him well I know it's not going to get to him at all.

"He will definitely make the right decision for him and the footy club."

Make of that what you will. I suppose it's good that the lure of playing with his best mate up in GWS is not going to be an issue, and the fact that Bastinac mentions he'll do the right think by the club means he probably does feel a sense of loyalty and responsibility. Bailey mentioned on SEN tonight that Scully feels like he can be a part of, and take this club to a successful era, and I suppose when it comes down to it, his main motivation will continue to be premiership success (something that Ablett had already experienced, and that the other established players who went to GWS couldn't see happening at their previous clubs... Brisbane Lions anyone?!)

Funny how I'm in negotiations with my employer for a promotion, and even though one role has more money than another, my heart is really pushing me towards the lesser paid role because I can see it leading to greater success in my career. Sometimes it's not all about money (not that anyone is throwing millions at me )

It all helps.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

You know, if anything the article gives us a further insight into the kid's stubbornness.

It goes hand in hand with his intense determination and drive to succeed.

Without being so stubborn, he wouldn't have got where he is today.

And when the kid says he's going to wait til the end of the season before negotiating a new contract, that's what he'll bloody well do.

This has been obvious to me for some time, but it helps to have a quote from his close friend to reinforce it.