The Tom Scully Saga

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

... on Scully's calendar he has every meal planned out for the entire month ...

As long as none of them are falafel, we're safe.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Rubbish reply

You originally said he would accept fair based on form. Nothing else, for example what GWS offer.

In other words take GWS out of the equation and he would accept an offer based on his current form only

As I said pure fantasy

Yeah, fair based on form - what's wrong with that?

His exposed form is also indicative of what we can expect of him in the future.

Obviously a new contract is for future performance, and it would be based on what we'd expect to get from him, based on what he has shown so far.

If he had not played this year due to injury, or if he has a shocking 2nd half of the year, it would affect the contract he'd be offered.

Maybe not by much, but it would.

GWS offer is obviously relevant, but I mentioned it in terms of market value.

You're trying to pick it apart DC, as you do, without having a real opinion yourself, but you're failing miserably.

I wasn't aware I needed to go into further depth and explain simple concepts just for your benefit.

[Watt and Howe? 16]

As long as none of them are falafel, we're safe.

hahaha nice.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Good Article by Mike Sheahan today...it will be fascinating to know what the MFC are doing behind closed doors.

I wonder also if the Fat Controller bothered to read it, & if he cared?? I doubt it.

He would be well aware that clubs are being screwed to the wall by all this rubbish..He is paid his $2 mill a year so why would he care.

At least 5 clubs are really struggling at the minute, but reading the AFL's mid year report you sure wouldn't know it.

The AFL looks good on the surface, but do a little digging....

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

Having always believed he would stay I now believe he is gone. Had a long conversation this morning with a friend with several Melbourne and non Melbourne contacts, All roads lead to GWS then back to Victoria as was suggested last night. He doesn't see himself as a Melbourne player, wants out, will take the money and will then return to play for a power club. We'll take the compensation, spread our player payments around the club, recruit Viney and another top draftee.

I've got 3 sources. Two say he might stay. One says he might go. Looks like we wait till the end of the season.

There is NO law that says he must make a decision before round 22 and why should we expect it from him and not from Sylvia or Morton or everyone else. That is Tom's right as an AFL player. What is the point of putting him in the Casey team if he hasn't made a decision? What are we going to do? Twist his arm? Maybe chinese burns anyone?

It would be nice if we found out now, but if not, then we just have to suck it up and wait. Let's put this thread to rest.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Yeah, fair based on form - what's wrong with that?

His exposed form is also indicative of what we can expect of him in the future.

Obviously a new contract is for future performance, and it would be based on what we'd expect to get from him, based on what he has shown so far.

If he had not played this year due to injury, or if he has a shocking 2nd half of the year, it would affect the contract he'd be offered.

Maybe not by much, but it would.

GWS offer is obviously relevant, but I mentioned it in terms of market value.

You're trying to pick it apart DC, as you do, without having a real opinion yourself, but you're failing miserably.

I wasn't aware I needed to go into further depth and explain simple concepts just for your benefit.

I don't know why I bother replying

I knew I should have kept away from a Scully thread

There is nothing wrong with paying Scully what he is worth based on his form, it just won't happen.

But, to suggest that in this situation he would disregard his elevated value (by GWS) and not expect more (than his 'form' worth) from MFC, that is what I believe is fantasy. If he stays he will be paid more than he's worth (using your or mine definition of his worth based on form). The gap between his 'form' worth and what GWS offer will be HUGE (and I'm not thinking of the really high figures bandied in the press)

I did give opinions. It is a no-win situation (if GWS make an offer). I'm not going to give an opininion on stay/go because I have NFI as I said previously.

I also said I have doubts whether GWS are making a big play and if they are I can't see why they'd go for a Scully type.

If I post again in this tiresome thread someone please put me down

Edit: Go and read your op #1081 - that is what we are discussing

Edited June 18, 2011 by daisycutter

[Roost It 1,434]

Roost It, I don't expect you to say whether your friends' "contacts at Melbourne" are contacts in the "inner circle" (for want of a better expression) or on the "fringes' of the club, or in-between. But my problem with this "contact with the club" sort of thing is that if anybody significant in the "inner circle" had reliable information of this importance that we were losing Scully, I'd expect some sort of action to be taken on it, at least internally. Not a press release, we mightn't see anything obvious, but if it was clear to the "inner circle" that Scully's interests and the club's interests had clearly diverged, then the club (and for that matter the team) could not just carry on as before. There would have to be a shift of some sort in the club's attitude & behaviour towards Scully.

If your friends' contacts are not "inner circle", then I'd expect that once you get a certain distance into the fringes of the club there's probably just as much gossip and rumour as there is on Demonland. It's human nature. So if the club continues to put out the same consistent message about Scully as it has all season and before, then he's not gone yet.

My friends work at the club. They are not "inner circle" as you put it. However they have no reason to tell me this information unless they thought it was true. As I said it isn't gospel. Tom didn't tell them. They did also tell me that Bailey would be the coach before it was announced and that the club had no chance of getting Judd. That's 2 from 2. I hope they are wrong, as they do but it don't look good.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

If what you say is true then he should be immediately stood down.

I'm feeling that it has now gotten to the point where the Club needs to make a statement to the fans about it.

Totally unacceptable that this is dominating/destabilizing our season.

I agree with that he has shown a total disrespect for the Melbourne Football Club and surely he must know the damage that he is/has caused.

I don't care anymore if he stays or goes, I just want us to be able to move on and cease this massive destabilisation, how often and at what times of the day and night are the players being texted or rung by their friends and families wanting the inside scoop. Sign or [censored] off, he knows what we can afford to pay him and we will or have offered all we can, if it's dollars then we will lose, if it's a future he wants as the captain of a club with a future then just sign and get on with it. All this crap about wanting to get the best deal at the end of the year is just that; we can only pay so much and I bet that's already been conveyed to his manager.

I said i wouldn't post again on this but i'm so sick of the whole saga it's turning me off the game, grow some balls MFC and put the ultimatum to him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You really don't want the MFC to succeed do you, you prefer the club to meander along so you always have the crutch of excuse to land on.

Only you could be so naive to make that ludicrous statement.

Players have left this club to play in premiership sides...that is a fact. Because they knew they would not get one here.

i am not going to argue it...it happened, and could continue to happen very easily if this club does not step up soon.

Players have left the Club for a variety of reasons. And stating that some have gone onto play in premiership teams as a fact. WOW! However the examples you gave did not demonstrate that players have been using MFC as a stepping ladder to get a premiership for the past 41 years let alone the past decade. I am glad you are not going to argue it because your position is unfounded and reflects a poor grasp of the situation.

The history of the club over the last 4-5 decades is very relevant C & B and it is far from Garbage, but you are free to believe what you want.

And you epitomse that to the max. Its surreal that you harp on about the history of the Club but your knowledge is superficial when put to the test..

Sure there were foolish trades i am not disputing that, but at the end of the day Top Line players have left this club and walked into premiership situations.

But in not one case did those players use the Club as a stepping stone. And if top line players have left in the past 50 years (longer than 41 years so what? It has no relevant application to the current situation

How many top line players want to come to the MFC to taste Premiership champagne??

I am not sure what the relevance of that is because everyone knows in the AFL knows we have the 2nd youngest list in the AFL and are on a long rebuild. And established stars would not be coming to MFC given the timeframe for likely success.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Only you could be so naive to make that ludicrous statement.

Players have left the Club for a variety of reasons. And stating that some have gone onto play in premiership teams as a fact. WOW! However the examples you gave did not demonstrate that players have been using MFC as a stepping ladder to get a premiership for the past 41 years let alone the past decade. I am glad you are not going to argue it because your position is unfounded and reflects a poor grasp of the situation.

And you epitomse that to the max. Its surreal that you harp on about the history of the Club but your knowledge is superficial when put to the test..

But in not one case did those players use the Club as a stepping stone. And if top line players have left in the past 50 years (longer than 41 years so what? It has no relevant application to the current situation

I am not sure what the relevance of that is because everyone knows in the AFL knows we have the 2nd youngest list in the AFL and are on a long rebuild. And established stars would not be coming to MFC given the timeframe for likely success.

Must have been the highlight of your day writing all that rubbish Rhino....Excuses, excuses and moe excuses.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If your friends' contacts are not "inner circle", then I'd expect that once you get a certain distance into the fringes of the club there's probably just as much gossip and rumour as there is on Demonland. It's human nature. So if the club continues to put out the same consistent message about Scully as it has all season and before, then he's not gone yet.

Agree totally and well summised.

My friends work at the club. They are not "inner circle" as you put it. However they have no reason to tell me this information unless they thought it was true. As I said it isn't gospel. Tom didn't tell them. They did also tell me that Bailey would be the coach before it was announced and that the club had no chance of getting Judd. That's 2 from 2. I hope they are wrong, as they do but it don't look good.

I like your hunches better.

FWIW, there was already a ground swell of rumour around AFL circles that Bailey was going to get the job back 4 years. And it was common knowledge that Judd's discussions with other clubs was a charade and that a deal had been done with Carlton before he had left the West.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Must have been the highlight of your day writing all that rubbish Rhino....Excuses, excuses and moe excuses.

It was actually a lowlight.

[Watt and Howe? 16]

I said i wouldn't post again on this but i'm so sick of the whole saga it's turning me off the game, grow some balls MFC and put the ultimatum to him.

When has putting an ultimatum on a player ever worked? (Serious question not just having a dig at you).

There would be so much greater uproar if Melbourne didn't have a priority pick and only chose Scully.

[Guest watts04]

tide has turned....a few weeks back most thought he was stayin

now everyone thinks he is gone and I agree

how can u defend that he is not?

Other superstars such as Franklin, Swan, Pendles etc find it easy to sign despite an unknown CBA pay rise etc.

Scully is screwin the club over and not being honest

I am strugglin to watch him at the footy and so are a few fellow dees supporters

[Roost It 1,434]

Agree totally and well summised.

I like your hunches better.

FWIW, there was already a ground swell of rumour around AFL circles that Bailey was going to get the job back 4 years. And it was common knowledge that Judd's discussions with other clubs was a charade and that a deal had been done with Carlton before he had left the West.

No my hunch was terrible. I think I've made it very clear in my posts that it ain't gospel and it might not be true. I'm not pedalling any agenda and would love Tom to stay a Demon. All along I thought he would stay but the people I know have told me things i choose to believe. I'm not asking you or anyone else to do anything other than make up your own mind.

With regard to Bailey and Judd, of course there was a groundswell of information just as there is in the Scully case. If Scully were to leave and return to collingwood in 3 years and I bought it up with you then. You would no doubt turn around and tell me there was a groundswell of evidence to support the Scully situation. Try getting down from your horse once in a while it'll save your arse from getting sore.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No my hunch was terrible. I think I've made it very clear in my posts that it ain't gospel and it might not be true. I'm not pedalling any agenda and would love Tom to stay a Demon. All along I thought he would stay but the people I know have told me things i choose to believe. I'm not asking you or anyone else to do anything other than make up your own mind.

With regard to Bailey and Judd, of course there was a groundswell of information just as there is in the Scully case. If Scully were to leave and return to collingwood in 3 years and I bought it up with you then. You would no doubt turn around and tell me there was a groundswell of evidence to support the Scully situation.

FWIW, I dont think your info provides any more credible information on Scully. And none of their past wins are startling revelations either. And all the groundswell of information on Scully is all rumour in absence of actual information. My understanding is that neither Scully nor his management have leaked their intention. When the decision comes regardless of whether he stays or goes, you will have heroes that will claim they knew and that this vindicates that they did when in fact, they did no more than guess heads over tails.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

tide has turned....a few weeks back most thought he was stayin

now everyone thinks he is gone and I agree

how can u defend that he is not?

How can you prove at this point that he is going. You cant.

The tide you talk about is the rumour mill feeding on itself in absence of the facts.

[Roost It 1,434]

FWIW, I dont think your info provides any more credible information on Scully. And none of their past wins are startling revelations either. And all the groundswell of information on Scully is all rumour in absence of actual information. My understanding is that neither Scully nor his management have leaked their intention. When the decision comes regardless of whether he stays or goes, you will have heroes that will claim they knew and that this vindicates that they did when in fact, they did no more than guess heads over tails.

I never claimed I was the origin of the information. I'm simply sharing that I've heard on the topic, from reliable sources. Apparently that's what forums are for. I have no intention of gloating if it's correct or apologizing if it's wrong. It's simply information, grist for the mill if you will. I'm fully aware that their past revelations aren't startling hence I didn't post them at the time. I posted this as it was a new slant on the Scully topic. Clearly you're staying in the saddle so I suggest you buy some cream.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Roost It

[Rogue 585]

This season has been an unexpected train wreck [...] all hoped [the season] would be a breakout year a la '87 and '98

My hyperbole alert just went off.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Mine too.

[Nasher 33,616]

I said i wouldn't post again on this but i'm so sick of the whole saga it's turning me off the game, grow some balls MFC and put the ultimatum to him.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the difference between the Scully (non-)situation and Sylvia not being signed up yet. If I was a more reckless person than I am, I'd do everything I could to start spreading rumours about Sylvia just to see if he too ends up the being the brunt of the pettiness we see here about Scully.

[Roost It 1,434]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the difference between the Scully (non-)situation and Sylvia not being signed up yet. If I was a more reckless person than I am, I'd do everything I could to start spreading rumours about Sylvia just to see if he too ends up the being the brunt of the pettiness we see here about Scully.

One's a player who's been on our list since 2003 and has played a handful of really good 4 quarter games who no one has linked with GWS. The other is a second year player who's a number 1 pick who looks likely to fulfill his enormous potential. Oh and he's been seriously linked to GWS. I hope that clears up your confusion.

[grant 10]

I agree WYL. Not having any facts at all has never stopped from fantasing the truth.

AFL...dictatorship....fat controller....conspiracies abound!!

So it has no requirement to have individual club members vote on it.

About as prophetic and accurate as the ACB have a disasterous 2010/11 crowd figures when WYL doomed the ACB. But of course, the Ashes were sold out..

We're doomed. We're doomed.

Where are you facts? you seem to blame CS and adamant that there was a democractic vote by all 16 clubs? where are you facts Rhino? ...you got none...so stop using childish tactics and pretending this is legal battle or that your arguments have any more credibility than others.

There are no conspiracy theories, just media observations over the way the GWS concessions were put to vote. You seem to belive all 16 club presidents were negligent in duties by approving the concessions, I believe that it was a done deal beforehand. Believe me, I dont subscribe to any conspiracy theories..

[Deeman 1,497]

Tom Scully will stay.

[Nasher 33,616]

One's a player who's been on our list since 2003 and has played a handful of really good 4 quarter games who no one has linked with GWS. The other is a second year player who's a number 1 pick who looks likely to fulfill his enormous potential. Oh and he's been seriously linked to GWS. I hope that clears up your confusion.

To paraphrase what you've said there: "there's rumours about Scully, there are no rumours about Sylvia."

To summarise my response: "just as I thought: SFA".

Thanks for clearing it up.