No I think the mfc list management and recruiting team are incompetent because their recent track record shows they are and until we can build a list that can win matches that is my position.

Lonely out there in your position?

Joe Daniher was asked this morning on SEN who was the best junior footballer he'd seen. His answer was Jack Viney. He said being around Viney had helped his development and that he'd never seen anyone before that had his fierceness, willingness and determination. He said it's amazing.

Yet some supporters would rather pass if we have to give up pick 3. Daniher has played against Whitfield, Toumpas and rucked against Grundy, yet Viney is the best junior he's seen.

Just be thankful.

Ben hur, you have hit the nail on the head here. JV will be a superstar, take him asap melbourne, he will drag us kicking and screaming up the ladder by himself!

Seriously though if we miss out on Viney I will throw a [censored] fit of biblical proportions

No I think the mfc list management and recruiting team are incompetent because their recent track record shows they are and until we can build a list that can win matches that is my position.

So I assume that there have been no changes in that department - we can take it as written that there will be more of the same errors?

As I said, there are plenty of interpretations posted in this thread of what Viney said. No need to immediately assume that this is yet another example of MFC incompetence.

Everyone calm down. It's a bluff, so that GC don't nominate him. So obvious the club has told him to say this. I feel though GC know it's a bluff and will call it, so we'll just have to use pick 3. There is NO WAY this club would risk not picking him then watch him slaughter us each time we play. This club knows it would kill each and every supporter to see that. The FD are fans too, they are all romantics and fanatics like us (probably worse). This club may not survive Jack Viney playing elsewhere. The FD know this. Don't worry folks, he'll play for us next year.

i think everyone knows he is a demon no matter what (imagine telling Todd, thanks for moving the family down and all but were gonna pass). What is in discussion is whether the club has taken the best strategy in order to exploit a loophole that could get upgraded pick 26 to pick 3. Unfortunately I agree that the other clubs must surely know as we do that JV is set in stone at MFC and will screw us

i think everyone knows he is a demon no matter what (imagine telling Todd, thanks for moving the family down and all but were gonna pass). What is in discussion is whether the club has taken the best strategy in order to exploit a loophole that could get upgraded pick 26 to pick 3. Unfortunately I agree that the other clubs must surely know as we do that JV is set in stone at MFC and will screw us

hmm yeah - the title of this thread seems to suggest Viney's comments are unsanctioned by the club, and therefore he is no dead cert to play for us next year. I am saying he is, because of reasons stated above. We won't be paying overs by using pick 3 if it means a) we get a gun and B) we keep everyone in the club happy (or rather stop everyone killing themselves / boycotting etc).

So I assume that there have been no changes in that department - we can take it as written that there will be more of the same errors?

As I said, there are plenty of interpretations posted in this thread of what Viney said. No need to immediately assume that this is yet another example of MFC incompetence.

Tim Harrington has managed this atrocious list for the last few years, Sue, so it makes sense that we wouldn't have much faith when he is still heavily involved.

Hopefully McClardy comes out now the way McGuire would and says 'that's fine, bid on him, but watch out for the consequences when we launch raids on Prestia, McKenzie and any other Victorian boy on your list'.

No I think the mfc list management and recruiting team are incompetent because their recent track record shows they are and until we can build a list that can win matches that is my position.

Just about every other father/son pick up at other clubs seem to go through with little fuss and relative cost. I just wonder what the hell Todd Viney is doing or has been doing in his various roles the club for the past few years.

These "strategy" talks are all very well, but it better not backfire.

We already lost a number one pick to a franchaise.

We better not lose a F/S to the other.

I just get the feeling that we will want one of Toumpas or Grundy. Your scenario would rule that out.

What if we offered 13 plus a player, say Petterd for Caddy and maybe Toy and maybe a swap of draft picks after the second round. That way your scenario of pick 4 for MD pick is more likely, with maybe GWS giving their second round pick to us.

I imagine we said that - I'm just putting myself in GC's position - I'd see that fat pick 4 sitting there.

The permutations can give you a migraine.

Agree - but first part over soon.

These "strategy" talks are all very well, but it better not backfire.

We already lost a number one pick to a franchaise.

We better not lose a F/S to the other.

Huh? The strategy has nothing to do with whether we lose him or not - in fact, we can't lose him. We can elect not to select him if another team bids - but that would have nothing to do with strategy talks.

We won't, IMHO, let Viney pass.

Neeld has spoken about a high performance culture and Viney is this personified. He will step straight up and bring the intangibles the club needs to produce long term success.

Add to this he is a super talented player. He moves wonderfully well through traffic and is very clean. Has a good, sharp burst of pace as well as covering a lot of ground.

Talent wise I'd be surprised if he isn't rated in the first 5 (although this is from an my limited viewing of most players) generally, and certainly he'd be rated there by Melbourne due to our specific needs (inside midfielder, contested ball, running ability, super driven and competitive). I also don't necessarily see there being a hard and fast top 3/4/5 or whatever this year. There are a number of players that bring different attributes, and add in there a ruckman (Grundy) that isn't necessarily required by many teams (like us). When you have the likes of Toumpas, Mayes, Stringer, O'Rourke, Plowman, etc, there isn't really an absolute standout that you'd rather have over Viney. Just different types of player - and none of them offer the same thing as Viney.

It just depends if we get him at market price or bargain price.

Just about every other father/son pick up at other clubs seem to go through with little fuss and relative cost. I just wonder what the hell Todd Viney is doing or has been doing in his various roles the club for the past few years.

Name a similar situation to this in the history of F/S selections.

Tim Harrington has managed this atrocious list for the last few years, Sue, so it makes sense that we wouldn't have much faith when he is still heavily involved.

One thing we have done fairly well at in the last few years is managing the list.

None of the delistings or trades have backfired.

What specific list management decisions of Harrington do you disagree with?

Recruiting is another story altogether..

Name a similar situation to this in the history of F/S selections.

Of course I can't because other clubs don't seem to stuff up their FS pickups.

Tim Harrington has managed this atrocious list for the last few years, Sue, so it makes sense that we wouldn't have much faith when he is still heavily involved.

Hopefully McClardy comes out now the way McGuire would and says 'that's fine, bid on him, but watch out for the consequences when we launch raids on Prestia, McKenzie and any other Victorian boy on your list'.

I hope McLardy doesn't do that. We are already under investigation for tanking, so we don't need to add draft tampering to the list.

If nothing else, JV's comments will ensure that we aren't accused of draft tampering. I wonder if anyone from the AFL/media had been sniffing around, seeing this as a possibility.

Of course I can't because other clubs don't seem to stuff up their FS pickups.

No, that's not the reason you can't name one. Try again.

MFC should pay alot of attention to Jimmy Toumpas.

Just so GC know who they ll be losing if they bid on Viney. Toumpas/Wines #3 and #4. Garlett at #13 and boom midfield solved.

Trade #26 and a player for Wellingham

Jones, Toumpas, Trengove, Sylvia, Wines, Wellingham, Howe, Garlett, Blease, Grimes = Premier midfield in 3 years.

Save our warchest for next year and bring over Franklin for 1.5mill a year to be with his buddy Wellingham and we will be looking good.

B - Nicholson Frawley Dunn

HBF - Watts Tmac Strauss

M - Howe Jones Grimes

HFF - Sylvia Franklin Trengove

F Blease Clarke Byrnes

RR - Jamar / Wellingham / Toumpas

Int: Garlett, Mckenzie, Gawn Int: Tapscott

I like to dream

Edited October 4, 201212 yr by olisik

We will pick JV regardless of number 3 or 26....

I am incredible proud of what Viney said to the media, tell me you wouldn't be frustrated?

And as much as we all act like he is just like us and loves the club, fact is he doesn't.

Doesn't remember his Dad playing here, moved to Adelaide young, and only ever had a soft spot for Melbourne.

We will pick him and he wants to be here, but the kid is a professional and anybody thinking he will come back in 2 years is kidding themselves, he is not a Melbourne boy.

Huh? The strategy has nothing to do with whether we lose him or not - in fact, we can't lose him. We can elect not to select him if another team bids - but that would have nothing to do with strategy talks.

seeing Jack Viney play for GC $uns would be another nail in this clubs coffin if the situation backfires.

I would prefer if nothing was said at all.

Sounds like he doesn't want to be jerked around, spend two years with a meaningless 'franchise' club, and then go through this entire process again to try to get back to the Demons.

It also sounds like something you'd only say if you knew you were definitely coming to Melbourne anyway. He must have some kind of inside contact of some sort.

The media is just another tool in the kit.

If the club didn't use all available tools available then many who say the club isn't doing enough.

The ducks body doesn't move but the legs are motoring below the waterline.

seeing Jack Viney play for GC $uns would be another nail in this clubs coffin if the situation backfires.

I would prefer if nothing was said at all.

What situation would backfire?

I repeat (because you must have missed it) the only way Jack Viney will not be on our list next season is if another team bids for him and we do not select him. That has nothing to do with strategic talks in the media pre-draft - it would be a list management decision.

Hi all, I may be confused because I am not sure if I (or anyone!!!) fully understand the draft rules, but I see the Viney thing like this.

If we think that GC or GWS will bid on JV, then we have 3 options:

1. Take JV at 3;

2. Let them take him and get the "number 2"; or

3. We can trade away our pick 3 so that, no matter what, we can get JV with pick 26.

If we have decided that, no matter what, we will take JV, then obviously we want to take him with pick 26 and not pick 3. So the only way to ensure this happens is if GC and GWS don't bid, or if we don't have pick 3. I am unclear what we can do to induce GWS and GC not to bid, but I know we have to be careful because of draft tampering!

Is it the case that we can trade pick 3 before having to nominate f/s with that pick? If so, then I guess this would be why Collingwood is offering players for pick 3, and perhaps that is why we would consider "overpaying" with pick 3, so we are "better off overall" because we can still use 13, and have 26 for Viney.

So it appears a lot of this comes down to timing. Specifically, can we perform trades before or after we know whether GWS/GC are bidding for JV? If we have to make a decision first, then we are in an unenviable position and perhaps we are best trading pick 3 for current needs (not necessaily for Dawes and Wellingham, although that may be the best we can get). Or even better, wouldn't we then try to trade pick 3 for say pick 9 and a player (because at pick 9, we would be getting value for JV still).

If it is the case that we have to nominate f/s before the trading commences (which I think is the case?!), then surely we wouldn't be even thinking about discussing pick 3 until we knew whether GC or GWS were bidding....

Also, where does the allocation of compensatory picks for free agency come into it? After father/son? Before or aftert eh start of trade week? Because that might be relevant too?!

Help!

Hi all, I may be confused because I am not sure if I (or anyone!!!) fully understand the draft rules, but I see the Viney thing like this.

If we think that GC or GWS will bid on JV, then we have 3 options:

1. Take JV at 3;

2. Let them take him and get the "number 2"; or

3. We can trade away our pick 3 so that, no matter what, we can get JV with pick 26.

If we have decided that, no matter what, we will take JV, then obviously we want to take him with pick 26 and not pick 3. So the only way to ensure this happens is if GC and GWS don't bid, or if we don't have pick 3. I am unclear what we can do to induce GWS and GC not to bid, but I know we have to be careful because of draft tampering!

Is it the case that we can trade pick 3 before having to nominate f/s with that pick? If so, then I guess this would be why Collingwood is offering players for pick 3, and perhaps that is why we would consider "overpaying" with pick 3, so we are "better off overall" because we can still use 13, and have 26 for Viney.

So it appears a lot of this comes down to timing. Specifically, can we perform trades before or after we know whether GWS/GC are bidding for JV? If we have to make a decision first, then we are in an unenviable position and perhaps we are best trading pick 3 for current needs (not necessaily for Dawes and Wellingham, although that may be the best we can get). Or even better, wouldn't we then try to trade pick 3 for say pick 9 and a player (because at pick 9, we would be getting value for JV still).

The only other thing I don't know is when the compensatory picks for free agency trades are allocated, and if these picks can impact on the father/son hierarchy. If that is also an issue, then the timing of the allocation is relevant.

Thoughts/clarifications?

The F/S nominations are done at the very start of trade period, I believe. So if we commit to him at Pick 3, that is it. We no longer have Pick 3 but we have JV.

Lonely out there in your position?

It's not lonely, just ask the 3000 members that dropped off this year and the 3000 that will drop off next year. Go to club functions listen to other supporters rather than what the club is telling you. If we stuff up this period of trading, drafting our club will be back in serious trouble.