Brereton, Dunstall target MFC culture

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

Some guys live for the rush

Has anyone asked him re the Dees in 2012?

I did hear him say not long ago when asked "Where do your true Loyalties lie...Hawthorn, Collingwood or Brisbane?"

Hawthorn was a very quick answer.

He has no passion to coach Melbourne...wish we got him 20 years ago old dee...He was a perfect fit for the MFC

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

You've taken a battering here but I'm in your corner. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong at all, I always just feel the "culture" thing is a massive copout from people who don't want to devote the time looking for the real issues. Much easier just to go "we suck, it must be the culture" and take it no further. No different to "sack the coach" after every loss.

That's right, I'm not saying there is no problems at our club - I'd just rather people discuss the problems rather than put it down to 'culture'.

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

Some guys live for the rush

Has anyone asked him re the Dees in 2012?

if he is not available what do you propose?

Please do not say Roos he has said a number of times he is not coaching an AFL team in the next couple of years.

Look forward to your thoughts.

If it aint Bailey,i would love to see Malthouse at Melbourne...He is Fantastic to listen to on SEN during calls. His knowledge of tactics & they way he so easily communicates it across is great.

[Choko 493]

You've taken a battering here but I'm in your corner. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong at all, I always just feel the "culture" thing is a massive copout from people who don't want to devote the time looking for the real issues. Much easier just to go "we suck, it must be the culture" and take it no further. No different to "sack the coach" after every loss.

Culture is a reason or an excuse, depending on how it's being used and whether it's being abused. It's no more of a copout than injuries or youth.

The fact of the matter is, as Laidley said about GWS, culture is defined and is very hard to re-define. What WA is missing is that we all agree that if culture was as simple as a good, no, inspirational, president, we would have remedied it. Having Stynes at the helm is not proof that we have a good culture, it's proof that a sub-par culture is hard to fix...

Culture has to do with our roots, our legacy, our size, our decision making frameworks, our tolerance of mediocrity, the number of our supporters who are prepared to purchase memberships and attend games, etc...

Does anyone think that, for example, Melbourne and Carlton would look at the same problem the same way and solve it in an identical fashion? I don't think so.

And despite WA's ridiculous comments about Dunstall and Brereton's vested interests in our failure, they would actually be in a fantastic position to talk about culture, because the HFC has a brilliant winning culture and a premiership record over the past 50 years of which we should be jealous.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Choko

[daisycutter 28,709]

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

I believe in the structure that is in place and I hope we stick at it and that stability leads us to success.

Here it is...... culture hanging from the rafters................

Australia's cultural Attache

Edited May 16, 2011 by daisycutter

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

And despite WA's ridiculous comments about Dunstall and Brereton's vested interests in our failure, they would actually be in a fantastic position to talk about culture, because the HFC has a brilliant winning culture and a premiership record over the past 50 years of which we should be jealous.

also they hit near-rock-bottom, like us, but pulled themselves out of ina few short years, even went all the way, something we are clearly not capable of

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

Here it is...... culture hanging from the rafters................

Australia's cultural Attache

The Great Man Leslie Patterson...

[Choko 493]

also they hit near-rock-bottom, like us, but pulled themselves out of ina few short years, even went all the way, something we are clearly not capable of

It took Collingwood, with and despite all its resources, the better part of 10 years to re-build its culture into a winning culture.

[old dee 23,122]

If it aint Bailey,i would love to see Malthouse at Melbourne...He is Fantastic to listen to on SEN during calls. His knowledge of tactics & they way he so easily communicates it across is great.

You have my vote WYL but I think there is very little chance of him (1) leaving collingwood

and (2) if he does there will be a bidding war that i think we would lose.

I would do whatever it takes but then I do not run the MFC.

Yes I know "thank god" I can hear you all say!

[old dee 23,122]

It took Collingwood, with and despite all its resources, the better part of 10 years to re-build its culture into a winning culture.

So Choko On that basis we have another 6.7 years of DB to go.

Not sure I can go the distance.

There is of course another thing wrong with your arguement.

Malthouse got them into 2 grand finals in a lot less time than 10 years

and while they had a few big losses I don't remember anything to rival our disasters.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

And despite WA's ridiculous comments about Dunstall and Brereton's vested interests in our failure, they would actually be in a fantastic position to talk about culture, because the HFC has a brilliant winning culture and a premiership record over the past 50 years of which we should be jealous.

Thanks mate, stay classy.

[Choko 493]

So Choko On that basis we have another 6.7 years of DB to go.

Not sure I can go the distance.

There is of course another thing wrong with your arguement.

Malthouse got them into 2 grand finals in a lot less time than 10 years

and while they had a few big losses I don't remember anything to rival our disasters.

Hawthorn is probably a better example than Collingwood for the reasons you say, but there is of course more to success than simply culture. Resources, luck, injury management, list management, etc.... all are major factors.

You can keep chipping away at culture, and I think the admin has been doing that for quite a few years. A few examples that come to mind are engagement with supporter groups, re-integration with MCC, Casey community based work, some key appointments (CC is a great example), etc... But yes, we have a way to go.

If you need any more example that we are not there yet, look at the way we treated James McDonald. That was human error underpinned by cultural issues.

[Striker475 696]

I'll maintain that we've gone backwards. Yes there's the Bomber example of on the verge to winning a flag, but then there are plenty of other examples. Most relevant one that comes to mind is Neil Balme.

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

It took Collingwood, with and despite all its resources, the better part of 10 years to re-build its culture into a winning culture.

Collingwood sorry The Filth, have always had a winning culture, to make so many Grand Finals aint easy. The reason they wobbled so many times on that last day in september was mainly through lack of absolute class players.

Often those teams exceeded there ability. Look at '76 to '77. That took a strong culture of winning. The fact they bounced back so quickly from GF losses i find quite amazing.

We haven't backed up a GF appearance since 1960.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I did hear him say not long ago when asked "Where do your true Loyalties lie...Hawthorn, Collingwood or Brisbane?"

Hawthorn was a very quick answer.

He has no passion to coach Melbourne...wish we got him 20 years ago old dee...He was a perfect fit for the MFC

Does not mean Lethal has a passion to coach Hawthorn.....

Hmmm..20 year ago...sack Northey.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Hawthorn is probably a better example than Collingwood for the reasons you say, but there is of course more to success than simply culture. Resources, luck, injury management, list management, etc.... all are major factors.

You can keep chipping away at culture, and I think the admin has been doing that for quite a few years. A few examples that come to mind are engagement with supporter groups, re-integration with MCC, Casey community based work, some key appointments (CC is a great example), etc... But yes, we have a way to go.

If you need any more example that we are not there yet, look at the way we treated James McDonald. That was human error underpinned by cultural issues.

Getting smashed here but am I wrong to want an answer to the question, what is football culture??

Surely it involves a tangible issue we can discuss, no?

For the record, I agree with the general sentiment of the article. Brereton targeted the players mentality and rightly so but Dunstall's comment about culture was void of any substance.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Collingwood sorry The Filth, have always had a winning culture, to make so many Grand Finals aint easy. The reason they wobbled so many times on that last day in september was mainly through lack of absolute class players.

Rubbish. Collingwood have not always had a winning culture at all.

Up to 2010, they have had all those supporters, all that money and facilities, favourable fixtures and had won one flag in 51 years. Its a crap result and a poor return. And if they had not been playing a club with an endemic losing culture in St Kilda they may have exnteded the run to 52 years. For the first 32 years of that period they had the biggest monkey on their back because the club were chokers when it counted. Lucky Malthouse came good last year, the McGuire/ Malthouse decade had produced disappointment. Full marks to them in 2010/11, they are a fully professional outfit. But FFS, they werent always like that at all.

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

Does not mean Lethal has a passion to coach Hawthorn.....

Hmmm..20 year ago...sack Northey.

Never said he was going to coach Hawthorn, but i can see where you thought that was a good place to jump in....

Lethal would have been great after swooper yes. But i am using hindsight.

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

Rubbish. Collingwood have not always had a winning culture at all.

Up to 2010, they have had all those supporters, all that money and facilities, favourable fixtures and had won one flag in 51 years. Its a crap result and a poor return. And if they had not been playing a club with an endemic losing culture in St Kilda they may have exnteded the run to 52 years. For the first 32 years of that period they had the biggest monkey on their back because the club were chokers when it counted. Lucky Malthouse came good last year, the McGuire/ Malthouse decade had produced disappointment. Full marks to them in 2010/11, they are a fully professional outfit. But FFS, they werent always like that at all.

But they always made the finals to at least challenge, which the MFC had much trouble doing.

[old dee 23,122]

Hawthorn is probably a better example than Collingwood for the reasons you say, but there is of course more to success than simply culture. Resources, luck, injury management, list management, etc.... all are major factors.

You can keep chipping away at culture, and I think the admin has been doing that for quite a few years. A few examples that come to mind are engagement with supporter groups, re-integration with MCC, Casey community based work, some key appointments (CC is a great example), etc... But yes, we have a way to go.

If you need any more example that we are not there yet, look at the way we treated James McDonald. That was human error underpinned by cultural issues.

On the subject of junior we are in total agreement.

Bloody terrible.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Never said he was going to coach Hawthorn,

This is what you said.....

Matthews is too old to take on full time coaching....he is happy in the media.

Hawthorn is the only club he would remotely consider returning too.

Matthes has only said that his "loyalties" lie with Hawthorn. It said nothing about coaching intentions.

[Guest Thomo]

Rubbish. Collingwood have not always had a winning culture at all.

Up to 2010, they have had all those supporters, all that money and facilities, favourable fixtures and had won one flag in 51 years. Its a crap result and a poor return. And if they had not been playing a club with an endemic losing culture in St Kilda they may have exnteded the run to 52 years. For the first 32 years of that period they had the biggest monkey on their back because the club were chokers when it counted. Lucky Malthouse came good last year, the McGuire/ Malthouse decade had produced disappointment. Full marks to them in 2010/11, they are a fully professional outfit. But FFS, they werent always like that at all.

You seem to lurk around these message boards waiting for WYL to post so you can jumnp on it and shoot him down. Strange.

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

This is what you said.....

Matthes has only said that his "loyalties" lie with Hawthorn. It said nothing about coaching intentions.

They asked him where his loyalties truly lie....he said Hawthorn. He ain't going to coach, but Hawthorn would be the only one with a remote chance of waving $$$$ at him.

Must you be so literal Rhino....

[Sir Why You Little 35,194]

You seem to lurk around these message boards waiting for WYL to post so you can jumnp on it and shoot him down. Strange.

It does get tiresome!!!

[Webber 10,181]

If we were to look for uncompromising 'hardness' and 'never say die' qualities in MFC players since 1985, who would be the players you would name, present list excluded? In other words, those who were NOT an example of the 'soft' culture we're debating. Would Todd Viney be one of those?