Grand Final Draws

[titan_uranus 25,014]

I firmly believe the result should be determined on the day, so extra time should be played. To come back the next week is anti-climactic IMO, and partly negates the games of the players yesterday.

The AFL says it doesn't like changing rules as a knee-jerk reaction. I say that's exactly what they did with the interchange rules. I also note that if the replay is drawn, extra time will be played, so they're not totally averse to it.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Things have been working pretty well for 100+ years. Leave the game alone.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Grand Final Replay is just fine with me. It's Half Time and we get another week of Footy!!

Brilliant! Leave it alone.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I can see it now. 2013. Melbourne in it's first GF appearance since the 2000 GF. The Dees played well to be in front @ 3QTR time to lead by 17 pts, but have lost 2 players in a friendly fire collision, both taken off, unable to return. during the last the gallant dees fight hard down to one on interchange & defend stoutly. The Tigers are coming at them & at the 20 minute mark it's the Dees by 1 point. The tigers have all the play, & the Dees have just lost another to a hamstring injury. The ball is in the tigers forward 50, & Martin has grabbed the ball & kicked long over his shoulder. Grimes is in a race to the ball against Morton,, bouncing towards the Goal line, 30 seconds to go, as the two tussle to reach the ball 3 meters in front of goal. Grimes lunges & gets a hand to it, knocking it through for a behind. The scores are level & the siren sounds, its all tied up.

But the demons have no interchange players to bring on for the Extra time! ...................................... Better luck next year.

[Rogue 585]

With the extra teams the season is going to run longer. For this reason the logistics of having a grand final replay are even harder, given ground access etc, and there won't ever be another replay.

[daisycutter 29,613]

The number of draws in GFs is in fact running at a higher rate than home and away games

Consider there have been 3 in 113 years which is approx one in forty. This is equivalent to one every 5 rounds of the home and away which obviously is much much greater than the reality.

In theory the odds should be about the same, so expect GF draws in the future to become even more uncommon.

There again we might see more draws in home and away, or this is just a load of drivel - ah well.

Edited September 26, 2010 by daisycutter

[Chook 15,013]

The number of draws in GFs is in fact running at a higher rate than home and away games

Consider there have been 3 in 113 years which is approx one in forty. This is equivalent to one every 5 rounds of the home and away which obviously is much much greater than the reality.

In theory the odds should be about the same, so expect GF draws in the future to become even more uncommon.

There again we might see more draws in home and away, or this is just a load of drivel - ah well.

I wonder what the draw ratio is in games between clubs adjacent to each other on the ladder, which is a better indication of the evenness required for a draw to occur. You'd think that a Grand Final is played by teams one and two, so I wonder what the ratio would be if you discounted all those first verse last blow-outs that happen in the Home and Away rounds. Those would surely mess up the ratio.

[daisycutter 29,613]

I wonder what the draw ratio is in games between clubs adjacent to each other on the ladder, which is a better indication of the evenness required for a draw to occur. You'd think that a Grand Final is played by teams one and two, so I wonder what the ratio would be if you discounted all those first verse last blow-outs that happen in the Home and Away rounds. Those would surely mess up the ratio.

thats a reasonable point

I wonder how the average GF winning margin compares to the average H&A winning margin?

[daisycutter 29,613]

I can't recall any finals game (other than GF) being a drawn game

Anyone remember differently?

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

I can't recall any finals game (other than GF) being a drawn game

Anyone remember differently?

1972 second semi was a Draw. 1990 Qualifying was a draw-killed us

North and Hawthorn played extra time i think...

[beelzebub 23,352]

Its all part of the lore ,and law, of the gaME.. Two teams had 4 qtrs to stamp a win...and didnt. They now get a priveleged second chance. Toughen up Princesses...!!! Its all part of our unique game

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

In 1977 the grand final replay was a boring fizzer. Al the life and energy was sucked out the week before. Not like a grand final should be. But that was a long time ago. If this replay ends the same way then it would be a compelling case for an extra time decider.

As to why draws may be more likely during the grand final I would suggest that it is more likely to happen because of the ultra competative nature of the GF. If teams are evenly matched the scores would tend to be much closer than during a regular game where not as much is at stake IMO.

Recent GF history has shown that scores will be very close if both teams fight it out to the finish. If one team drops off then we get a blow out. There does not seem to be many results that fall in between.

Edited September 26, 2010 by america de cali

[daisycutter 29,613]

. . . .

As to why draws may be more likely during the grand final I would suggest that it is more likely to happen because of the ultra competative nature of the GF. If teams are evenly matched the scores would tend to be much closer than during a regular game where not as much is at stake IMO.

. . . .

I agree that makes sense

But, you would expect more draws in non-GF finals for similar reasons (teams closer to each other on ladder and lots on the line).

Despite there being 5-6 more non-GF finals (est. over 113 years) I only know of 2 draws (could be more).

Interesting . . .

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

Is it "Replay" or "Rematch"? Wouldn't a replay produce the same result every time?

[daisycutter 29,613]

Is it "Replay" or "Rematch"? Wouldn't a replay produce the same result every time?

very sharp!

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

I agree that makes sense

But, you would expect more draws in non-GF finals for similar reasons (teams closer to each other on ladder and lots on the line).

Despite there being 5-6 more non-GF finals (est. over 113 years) I only know of 2 draws (could be more).

Interesting . . .

Difficult to understand why this is not so. In the regular season as well as finals there are too many variables. That includes form, injuries, ground advantage, weather, rivalries and just about any other factor imaginable. But weak and flawed sides are usually culled quickly in the initial stages of the finals. Nearly always the two best teams make it through to challenge for the premiership. Melbourne's performances this season against Collingwood was on par with the best of the competition against them whilst our performance against St Kilda was more or less what was expected.

Edited September 27, 2010 by america de cali

[daisycutter 29,613]

All Draw statistics

All Games (inc finals) 25062 played 132 Drawn Percentage .53% . . . . Games/Draws to Rd8 2004

Finals Draw statistics

Grand Finals 114 played 3 Drawn Percentage 2.63%. . . . .Figures to 2010 GF1

All Finals 582 played 8 Drawn Percentage 1.37%. . . . .Figures to 2010 GF1

Non-GF Finals 474 played 5 Drawn Percentage 1.05% . . . .Figures to 2010 GF1

Finals Draws by Team

Col 5

MFC 2

Car 2

Ess 2

Rch 1

Gee 1

StK 1

NtM 1

WCE 1

Edited to add more stats.

Edited September 27, 2010 by daisycutter

[daisycutter 29,613]

Re: Draw stats

Extra stats and corrections added

see previous post

Edited September 27, 2010 by daisycutter

[harry 1]

In 1977 the grand final replay was a boring fizzer. Al the life and energy was sucked out the week before. Not like a grand final should be. But that was a long time ago. If this replay ends the same way then it would be a compelling case for an extra time decider.

No it wouldn't. Using that logic, if the first GF was boring, it should be cancelled the next year.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

In 1977 the grand final replay was a boring fizzer. Al the life and energy was sucked out the week before. Not like a grand final should be. But that was a long time ago. If this replay ends the same way then it would be a compelling case for an extra time decider.

i wasn't bored at the Replay at all. !00,000 people still made it a mighty game.

The Amount of goals kicked in the replay showed both defences were down and it was much more more open, but Phil Manassa's run down the members wing should never be forgotten.

With extra time, what happens if one team has got 4 injured players??? Is that fair??

Week off let everybody reload & Back to battle i say.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Clearly in support of extra time.

Replays of draws are a VFL tradition. So many traditions have changed, eg. away strip which is ridiculous. In 2 years we will have 8 interstate teams and 8 melbourne teams. The AFL is expert at managing an uneven competition. But certainly don't let them get away with the grand final. Fancy the QLd and WA teams having to play a replay in the grand final especially against Collingwood who don't travel but get most of the season on the G. Get it right now before it happens. Surely we want a semblance of fairness.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Clearly in support of extra time.

Replays of draws are a VFL tradition. So many traditions have changed, eg. away strip which is ridiculous. In 2 years we will have 8 interstate teams and 8 melbourne teams. The AFL is expert at managing an uneven competition. But certainly don't let them get away with the grand final. Fancy the QLd and WA teams having to play a replay in the grand final especially against Collingwood who don't travel but get most of the season on the G. Get it right now before it happens. Surely we want a semblance of fairness.

As i said what happens if one team has 4 players injured at the Final siren so no interchange to use in that final 10 minutes of "extra time" how is that fair????

[Mousey 47]

Extra time for me.

The build up of Grand Final Week is huge now. For it to happen then not get a result is just disappointing..

Agree it would suck if it was an interstate team battling it out. Must fix now in case it does happen in the future...

10 minute quarter! Let em go at it and get a result!

As people have said it hardly ever happens, BUT when it DOES happen in the future it should be decided with extra time!

[Mousey 47]

As i said what happens if one team has 4 players injured at the Final siren so no interchange to use in that final 10 minutes of "extra time" how is that fair????

Well its not but its happened in the battle, people may go down, its all part of the one game?

Will be interesting to see if it is changed or not..

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Well its not but its happened in the battle, people may go down, its all part of the one game?

Will be interesting to see if it is changed or not..

People may go down yes, but a team should be allowed to bring in replacements.

If it was Melbourne in that position you would be screaming Blue Murder.

It's a rule we have all known, and just because it has now been used is no reason to change it.

Enough questionable rules have been tampered with in this game over the las 15-20 years, lets not have another one please.