How is the game plan holding up?

[John Crow Batty 8,305]

I really liked the way the team has been playing exciting fast football in the last few months but it appears opposition sides are now countering it recently and as yet I haven't seen a plan B in place. From the Richmond game onwards I have noticed changes.

Opposition sides are putting enormous forward defensive pressure on our back line.

While we still look great when the games spreads we are getting murdered at clearances and stoppages all over the ground.

Our forward line looks exciting when the ball is moving forward but becomes invisible when the ball is going the other way.

Despite having the second most dominant tap ruckman, we can't take a trick at centre breaks and conceding too many cheap goals at backline stoppages.

Our tackling pressure is way off. Too many missed tackles in the last three weeks.

Granted not having a fully fit Moloney and Silvia does not help but our midfield and onball structure is starting to appear as a major weakness at the moment. It appears more set up to spread rather than get to the ball first.

Things started looked shaky against Richmond and it was only because they tired that they didn't break us first IMO.

In the Port game our structure didn't look right. A bit top heavy with Newton, Warnock and Morton adding really nothing to the game we are good at playing. I think playing these guys was only a gesture conceding the season was over. More midfield and backline stoppage grunt was required.

I'm starting to think our game plan is all one way and it is other teams that are doing their homework and not us.

These are just my amateur un-expert opinions. What do others have to say?

Edited August 24, 2010 by america de cali

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Our game plan is fine - consistency with our disposal is the main thing that is hurting us at the moment.

Having said that there is one worrying trend that we are seeing, especially in the last couple of weeks and that is goals against from forward line stoppages. It seems that players from opposition sides are reading Jamar's ruckwork better than our guys. The Burgoyne goal against Hawthorn was an extreme example of this but there has been quite a few. I'm not sure of the statistics but my gut feel is that if we broke even on these scores from forward line stoppages we'd have a gone along way to winning the last 2 games.

[sylvinator 96]

Our game plan is fine - consistency with our disposal is the main thing that is hurting us at the moment.

Having said that there is one worrying trend that we are seeing, especially in the last couple of weeks and that is goals against from forward line stoppages. It seems that players from opposition sides are reading Jamar's ruckwork better than our guys. The Burgoyne goal against Hawthorn was an extreme example of this but there has been quite a few. I'm not sure of the statistics but my gut feel is that if we broke even on these scores from forward line stoppages we'd have a gone along way to winning the last 2 games.

We looked very tired last week, i don't think its a problem with the game plan.

We will be better at executing the plan next year. Not because we're going to bring in a superstar from another team... but because our team is filled with inexperience, and these young guys now have 22 more games under their belts and 22 more games playing together.

Through mere natural progression, we will be in the top 8 next season. It took Geelong a long time to build their list, and now their group have grown together over the last 6-7 years. That's what i believe will happen to this group over the next 6-7 years.

[praha 10,360]

This thread (and Melbourne fans in general) make me laugh.

We're not a finals team atm, and we've won 8 games (which is what many expected) and could very well be on 10 or 11 wins just as easily. The gameplan is fine. It's a matter of executing the gameplan, which comes with experience.

You don't implement plan b if you're still trying to learn plan a.

Edited August 24, 2010 by calabreseboy

[satyricon 267]

This thread (and Melbourne fans in general) make me laugh.

We're not a finals team atm, and we've won 8 games (which is what many expected) and could very well be on 10 or 11 wins just as easily. The gameplan is fine. It's a matter of executing the gameplan, which comes with experience.

You don't implement plan b if you're still trying to learn plan a.

I agree, to listen to some of the supporters you would think the season has been a complete failure, last year we won three games, this year at the moment 8 (hopefully 9, to give Junior the send off he deserves), we have played badly/poorly in about 5 and deservedly lost, and played ok but got beaten or drew in the other 8, we have never been smashed this season,(100+ ponts) from memory biggest margin is probably eight or nine goals....when the game plan has clicked we have been awesome (the Sydney game).......I am really looking forward to next season and the improvement again

Edited August 24, 2010 by satyricon

[Hobbits's 17]

This thread (and Melbourne fans in general) make me laugh.

We're not a finals team atm, and we've won 8 games (which is what many expected) and could very well be on 10 or 11 wins just as easily. The gameplan is fine. It's a matter of executing the gameplan, which comes with experience.

you're right. I would add that a component of plan a is reliant on our midfield maturing too. it should be obvious.

the plan a & b thing is in my opinion frustrating - when parts of the media bring it up now & then. fast breaking coast to coast exciting movement is referred to as plan a. when it goes skewiff people say we don't have a plan b. it's because sides have caused our plan a to break down. when the side looks to play a slower more concerted effort to get from position a to position b (the goals) - that is the plan b !!

[jabberwocky 2,301]

This thread (and Melbourne fans in general) make me laugh.

We're not a finals team atm, and we've won 8 games (which is what many expected) and could very well be on 10 or 11 wins just as easily. The gameplan is fine. It's a matter of executing the gameplan, which comes with experience.

You don't implement plan b if you're still trying to learn plan a.

Respect.

There are some thread starters that won't be happy unless we win every game. Fortunately we have a football club that is far less jittery and are geared toward winning a flag. Its small picture vs big picture stuff.

We doubled our wins in a year. We will enter the next stage of our development in 2011. If we double our wins next year I will be very happy.

And on the game plan, it is a very good one. It asks a lot of the players and only very good, fit and strong players can implement it effectively. You can see now that the players know what they need to do. It is now a matter of lifting the team performance consistently.

Edited August 24, 2010 by dandeeman

[The Big Ticket 94]

Our game plan is fine - consistency with our disposal is the main thing that is hurting us at the moment.

Having said that there is one worrying trend that we are seeing, especially in the last couple of weeks and that is goals against from forward line stoppages. It seems that players from opposition sides are reading Jamar's ruckwork better than our guys. The Burgoyne goal against Hawthorn was an extreme example of this but there has been quite a few. I'm not sure of the statistics but my gut feel is that if we broke even on these scores from forward line stoppages we'd have a gone along way to winning the last 2 games.

We're tiring.

The goals from stoppages are a combination of inexperience and small bodies. Wait till Scully and Trengove beef up over the summer.

[Fork 'em 6,572]

It's tough to run as hard as the game plan demands for the whole year , especially as young as we are .

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

We're tiring.

The goals from stoppages are a combination of inexperience and small bodies. Wait till Scully and Trengove beef up over the summer.

Yeah. Fair point.

[John Crow Batty 8,305]

Hey, don't get me wrong this season is an improvement for sure and am hoping it will continue with all my heart. Still a lot of areas to improve on. And in many areas we could have done a lot better this year. These are the topics worthy of debate rather than trotting out spin. There is no such thing as a satisfactory season for the team while there is a flag up for grabs. And no level of improvement is ever good enough until we get one. John Northey said after 87 that we have to take all opportunities when they arise or else we'll never get there. We never did but to his credit he took a lame duck team as bad as we've ever been to finals within two years of taking over. Thats been the problem with this club, too satisfied with too little every year and appetites too easily satiated. Everyone is happy with excuses why we haven't done this or that. Seen all this before for decades. If we win 12 or 14 next year I still wont be happy because I'll be [censored] off at the one or two games we lose(most likely interstate) but could have done better. And if we ever manage get to a GF and lose again I'd be more [censored] off than ever. Everyone assumes improvement will continue but it is not guaranteed. I still believe other clubs with finals aspirations are more hungry than us at this stage of our development.

Edited August 24, 2010 by america de cali

[45HG 1,539]

From the Richmond game onwards?

Destined for the scrapheap from there.

[rpfc 27,637]

I really liked the way the team has been playing exciting fast football in the last few months but it appears opposition sides are now countering it recently and as yet I haven't seen a plan B in place. From the Richmond game onwards I have noticed changes.

Opposition sides are putting enormous forward defensive pressure on our back line.

While we still look great when the games spreads we are getting murdered at clearances and stoppages all over the ground.

Our forward line looks exciting when the ball is moving forward but becomes invisible when the ball is going the other way.

Despite having the second most dominant tap ruckman, we can't take a trick at centre breaks and conceding too many cheap goals at backline stoppages.

Our tackling pressure is way off. Too many missed tackles in the last three weeks.

In the Port game our structure didn't look right. A bit top heavy with Newton, Warnock and Morton adding really nothing to the game we are good at playing. I think playing these guys was only a gesture conceding the season was over. More midfield and backline stoppage grunt was required.

So we need a plan B because our backline is under more pressure, we get beaten at the stoppages, our forwards don't put enough pressure on their backs, we get beaten at the stoppages, and we haven't landed tackles?

This talk of a Plan B is becoming so tiresome. A plan B is a completely altered plan like if we suddenly went around the boundary line with short kicks like the Magpies do.

Having a less topheavy side is a structural issue - not a plan B.

Not being beaten in the stoppages is apart of any Plan - A through Z. It certainly is apart of our plan.

Our forward pressure is one area we have improved enormously this year, and again, you would struggle to find a 'plan' in the alphabet that doesn't include it.

The same with landing tackles.

Can we please stop with this Plan B nonsense?

Geelong have Plan A, and when plan A isn't working, Bomber gives them a rocket and they try again. Same with Collingwood.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Hey, don't get me wrong this season is an improvement for sure and am hoping it will continue with all my heart. Still a lot of areas to improve on. And in many areas we could have done a lot better this year. These are the topics worthy of debate rather than trotting out spin. There is no such thing as a satisfactory season for the team while there is a flag up for grabs. And no level of improvement is ever good enough until we get one. John Northey said after 87 that we have to take all opportunities when they arise or else we'll never get there. We never did but to his credit he took a lame duck team as bad as we've ever been to finals within two years of taking over. Thats been the problem with this club, too satisfied with too little every year and appetites too easily satiated. Everyone is happy with excuses why we haven't done this or that. Seen all this before for decades. If we win 12 or 14 next year I still wont be happy because I'll be [censored] off at the one or two games we lose(most likely interstate) but could have done better. And if we ever manage get to a GF and lose again I'd be more [censored] off than ever. Everyone assumes improvement will continue but it is not guaranteed. I still believe other clubs with finals aspirations are more hungry than us at this stage of our development.

The thread is about the game plan which this post has nothing to do with. What specifically is your beef?

What exactly are you debating and who with?

You are happy with the improvement yet it hasn't been a satisfactory season.

Anything less than a flag is a failure yet you laud John Northey (a terrific coach).

If we make the grand final next year and lose you will be [censored] off and believe that we could have done better?

Other clubs are more hungry than us?

What were your expectations before the season started? A flag? 100% wins?

Do you gather that from the amount of questions in this post that I have no idea what you are on about?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

The thread is about the game plan which this post has nothing to do with. What specifically is your beef?

Medium rare thanks, yours?

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Medium rare thanks, yours?

Same. + Glass of cab sav.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

We looked very tired last week, i don't think its a problem with the game plan.

We will be better at executing the plan next year. Not because we're going to bring in a superstar from another team... but because our team is filled with inexperience, and these young guys now have 22 more games under their belts and 22 more games playing together.

Through mere natural progression, we will be in the top 8 next season. It took Geelong a long time to build their list, and now their group have grown together over the last 6-7 years. That's what i believe will happen to this group over the next 6-7 years.

summed it up nicely

[Rogue 585]

I think our biggest problem recently has been clearances/stoppages, and that's no surprise for a young side at the end of a long season.

With regards structure, I think it was pretty similar to the week before. Newton replacing PJ kept the structure the same in that respect. Morton's a runner in the same vein as Bail, who he was going to replace (until Sylvia was a late out). You could make the argument that Warnock coming into the backline changed the structure, but we were probably hoping to have someone like a Garland play a more offensive role.

The one thing about the 'game plan' I don't like is that our forward structure doesn't hold deep enough. I think that it's our forwards getting sucked into play, as DB has also commented that we should have guys deeper at times. What I don't like is that we end up turning it over through the middle because there's no one to kick to, or kicking long to out-numbered forwards (how many times did we try and go through Wona at half-forward vs Hawthorn, expecting him to mark long kicks against 2-3 defenders?).

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I think our biggest problem recently has been clearances/stoppages, and that's no surprise for a young side at the end of a long season.

Agree completely. Moloney out/not fit hasn't helped. Stoppages have let us down over the last two weeks. No surprise against the stronger Hawks in the wet and Port Adelaide were desperate and pressured us all day.

I haven't checked the numbers but it seems our tackling has dropped away too.

[Red Sox 2]

Respect.

There are some thread starters that won't be happy unless we win every game. Fortunately we have a football club that is far less jittery and are geared toward winning a flag. Its small picture vs big picture stuff.

We doubled our wins in a year. We will enter the next stage of our development in 2011. If we double our wins next year I will be very happy.

And on the game plan, it is a very good one. It asks a lot of the players and only very good, fit and strong players can implement it effectively. You can see now that the players know what they need to do. It is now a matter of lifting the team performance consistently.

+1

Hey, don't get me wrong this season is an improvement for sure and am hoping it will continue with all my heart. Still a lot of areas to improve on. And in many areas we could have done a lot better this year. These are the topics worthy of debate rather than trotting out spin. There is no such thing as a satisfactory season for the team while there is a flag up for grabs. And no level of improvement is ever good enough until we get one. John Northey said after 87 that we have to take all opportunities when they arise or else we'll never get there. We never did but to his credit he took a lame duck team as bad as we've ever been to finals within two years of taking over. Thats been the problem with this club, too satisfied with too little every year and appetites too easily satiated. Everyone is happy with excuses why we haven't done this or that. Seen all this before for decades. If we win 12 or 14 next year I still wont be happy because I'll be [censored] off at the one or two games we lose(most likely interstate) but could have done better. And if we ever manage get to a GF and lose again I'd be more [censored] off than ever. Everyone assumes improvement will continue but it is not guaranteed. I still believe other clubs with finals aspirations are more hungry than us at this stage of our development.

We won games under Northey that we had no right to win, glorious stuff!

Of course improvement isn't guaranteed, St Kilda had a fair crack at early draft picks and near on a decade later are still trying to get a flag, it's not easy.

Don't think anyone is any less hungry than MFC. Under Bailey & others the club has traded Johnstone & McLean and had no hesitation in moving on others, McDonald, Miller, Bell, Robertson, White, Yze etc etc. The continued clean out this year makes way for more players to get games into them next year.

The FD is doing a fine job and making decisions that have to be made. Hopefully to have a squad of players similar to Geelong that play a lot of football together & have a lot of success. It takes time for those games to be played together & the game plan to be second nature to them all.

[John Crow Batty 8,305]

The thread is about the game plan which this post has nothing to do with. What specifically is your beef?

What exactly are you debating and who with?

You are happy with the improvement yet it hasn't been a satisfactory season.

Anything less than a flag is a failure yet you laud John Northey (a terrific coach).

If we make the grand final next year and lose you will be [censored] off and believe that we could have done better?

Other clubs are more hungry than us?

What were your expectations before the season started? A flag? 100% wins?

Do you gather that from the amount of questions in this post that I have no idea what you are on about?

I'll get to the game plan later but heres my beef. 90% of the game is played upstairs with attitude. Every club is professional these days and the true winners wont tolerate anything but winning. Haven't seen much attitude yet from us. We have a fabulous admin led by Jimmy, we have a suite of the best draft picks and are not worth jack [censored] with the old school playing mentality still at the club. And that goes for some supporters who can't hold in their vital juices long enough and soil their pants.

Our worst games of the year.

Carlton. Snubbed by Judd, Warnock, abandoned by Mclean and Johnson. Yet they cream us every time. Why do we let them do it?

North Melbourne. A team with a more slim hold on survival than us for the past 30 years. BTW also a fabulous resume over the last 30 years. Nothings changed for them except they don't win flags anymore. They still cream us at will.

West Coast. A team that smashes us purely as part of their normal routine(Cost us a real crack for the flag, 1990). Cream us away when they can't even win a game at their home ground. Too bad for them they didn't get a return game.

Other issues

Interstate games . Can't win any unless the other teams are having a full blown crisis or playing their worst football for a DECADE.

Game plan. Most other team seems to have a game plan to counter our game plan. We don't have one to counter theirs because we think we're Geelong.

When we play Geelong. We field a second rate side and hope they go easy on us and they oblige. Why? Because they have bigger fish to fry later in the season and appreciate a mid season rest.

Collingwood. The highlight of our year. If only grand finals were played on the Queens Birthday Weekend. Our occasional annual non self administered orgasm if we get to beat them. We will never be a serious contender if don't treat all opposition clubs with the same disdain.

For all the positives this club has had in the last couple of years we still haven't shaken off all the on field crap thats dogged us for years.

Thats my beef!

Edited August 24, 2010 by america de cali

[rpfc 27,637]

I'll get to the game plan later but heres my beef. 90% of the game is played upstairs with attitude. Every club is professional these days and the true winners wont tolerate anything but winning. Haven't seen much attitude yet from us. We have a fabulous admin led by Jimmy, we have a suite of the best draft picks and are not worth jack [censored] with the old school playing mentality still at the club. And that goes for some supporters who can't hold in their vital juices long enough and soil their pants.

Our worst games of the year.

Carlton. Snubbed by Judd, Warnock, abandoned by Mclean and Johnson. Yet they cream us every time. Why do we let them do it?

North Melbourne. A team with a more slim hold on survival than us for the past 30 years. BTW also a fabulous resume over the last 30 years. Nothings changed for them except they don't win flags anymore. They still cream us at will.

West Coast. A team that smashes us purely as part of their normal routine(Cost us a real crack for the flag, 1990). Cream us away when they can't even win a game at their home ground. Too bad for them they didn't get a return game.

What I got from that is that you think the culture of the club is too timid.

And that we are ruining Scully, Trengove, and Watts because of that.

Would you like more fighting onfield? Beamer gives them boxing lessons so they know how...

Interstate games . Can't win any unless the other teams are having a full blown crisis or playing their worst football for a DECADE.

I'm so glad we have progressed to the point where you can put riders and clarifiers on interstate wins. We MUST be improving.

Game plan. Most other team seems to have a game plan to counter our game plan. We don't have one to counter theirs because we think we're Geelong.

We play a style similar to Geelong but the real lesson with Geelong is they play one way - no matter what the circumstances they back themselves to do what they have practised. We have a talented list that should develop the same mentality.

In fact, when we lose, it is because we have abandoned our running, play on at all costs, sharing gameplan. Get the players to consistently play the gameplan and we will win a lot of footy games over the next decade.

When we play Geelong. We field a second rate side and hope they go easy on us and they oblige. Why? Because they have bigger fish to fry later in the season and appreciate a mid season rest.

One game does not a conspiracy make. Scully and Trengove will line up against the might of Geelong next year.

Collingwood. The highlight of our year. If only grand finals were played on the Queens Birthday Weekend. Our occasional annual non self administered orgasm if we get to beat them. We will never be a serious contender if don't treat all opposition clubs with the same disdain.

Again, look how far we have come that a fan can be so dismissive of such good displays against quality opposition. We match up well against them, and up until the Hawthorn game they were the biggest games of our season since 2006.

Anyone who cannot see the progression is as blind as those that couldn't see last years progression.

It's slow going.

According to some of you; Rome sprung up out of nowhere one afternoon...

[John Crow Batty 8,305]

What I got from that is that you think the culture of the club is too timid.

And that we are ruining Scully, Trengove, and Watts because of that.

Would you like more fighting onfield? Beamer gives them boxing lessons so they know how...

I'm so glad we have progressed to the point where you can put riders and clarifiers on interstate wins. We MUST be improving.

We play a style similar to Geelong but the real lesson with Geelong is they play one way - no matter what the circumstances they back themselves to do what they have practised. We have a talented list that should develop the same mentality.

In fact, when we lose, it is because we have abandoned our running, play on at all costs, sharing gameplan. Get the players to consistently play the gameplan and we will win a lot of footy games over the next decade.

One game does not a conspiracy make. Scully and Trengove will line up against the might of Geelong next year.

Again, look how far we have come that a fan can be so dismissive of such good displays against quality opposition. We match up well against them, and up until the Hawthorn game they were the biggest games of our season since 2006.

Anyone who cannot see the progression is as blind as those that couldn't see last years progression.

It's slow going.

According to some of you; Rome sprung up out of nowhere one afternoon...

I appreciate your comments. I note you say that we should develop the same mentality as Geelong. And I agree totally. But alas that is the rarest ingredient in football. Not many clubs have done what they have done. Being like them is not good enough now because everyone knows who they are. What they sprang on the competition surprised everyone. We have to find our own killer ways. There is a wasteland of very talented teams in football history who achieved nothing because they did not have the right mentality. What I pointed out are some of the serial sins our club has committed in the past and is still committing this year. The indicators I have pointed out are ingrained and cultural and have nothing to do with how much we have improved. And I expect to see something better this week against North. A team that has shamed us with their courageous heart. A meaningless game but it will be interesting to see who has the passion.

BTW, I was a boxer myself. Ended up as a hum drum sparing partner. My trainer said I'll never make it because I lacked the killer instinct.

Edited August 25, 2010 by america de cali

[e25 5]

I'm surprised no one has figured it out yet.

Plan B is to hit targets and make tackles stick.

If only Bailey could see the value in that...

[rpfc 27,637]

I'm surprised no one has figured it out yet.

Plan B is to hit targets and make tackles stick.

If only Bailey could see the value in that...

I thought Plan B was to accuse the victim?

How times change...