The Miller discussion

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

IMHO too many supporters miss and under rate parts of the game because they are too busy scream out Your a "dud" "your past it", "your not in our future" , "go to the gold coast."

Absolutely agree. However while I have been a supporter of Miller's in the face of that mindless pap, I do recognise his shortcomings

Many players go back to the 2nd for many reasons but that is not to say they cant change. Well at least they cant change in the mind of the supporters!

Absolutely agree. But what has changed with Miller. He monstered some kids who were less in experience, height and weight. It was salad days and he did what he did proficiently. Nothing flash. It was a day to cash in at that level. He did. He could have done even more. I am not sure I saw anything on Saturday which showed me a new Miller trait.

Over the year, the MFC forward line has improved markedly. Jurrah is back fit. Watts has improved and is the focus of getting further game time into him. Dunn has lifted enormously. The performance bar has been raised. Miller's 10 goals might have got him a certain gig 10 to 12 weeks ago. But as you can see, barring injury, who do you realistically drop to play Miller without weakening some aspect of the side. And next year it gets tougher with marking forward options like Pettard coming back.

The Club and Miller know eactly where each other is at. He is a smart guy and he knows that by being given a one year contract at the last moment prolongs his opportunity in AFL. And I glad he made the best shot of it. But if MFC do want to be a serious contender in future years, Miller will struggle. And from my contacts, Miller is realistic to be aware of that.

And good on him.

But you are right, while a player is on our list he does deserve respect. And at times, Miller has been subjected to some unreasonable (often personal) attacks on Ology and here.

the reason he kicked 10 goals is because he has an AFL players body but a footbal brain of a VFL player...miller is just a big body...

This is a good example of it. The "reason" he gives has nothing to do with wy he kicked 10 goals. An unnecessary cheap shot.

[1858 219]

Personally I just think this weeks our opponents have "intimated" us for years. Do we have a player on our list who can physically intimated young backmen and own that goal square? (Now dont get me wrong - NOTHING illegal)

AFL football is a mans game .. ‘Cometh the hour, cometh the man.’

Although I don't agree with your case for Miller, I must admit that (for mine) you have hit the mark in some areas. One of the things that jumped out at me during the Richmond game was that we lack steel/solidity up forward. Yes we have some underdeveloped talls who will fill out but we lack a solid player with a killer instinct up forward (not a thug) who doesn't take any crap. I'm thinking that Tapscott could become that player one day.

Up forward we are dynamic at times and we do have some speed to exert pressure but we're missing an element which I think you are addressing (probably in the wrong thread though). I doubt that Miller is accomplished enough to use his size/solidity effectively against a streetwise team like Hawthorn. We'll get pushed and shoved and I reckon if any team is going to test Jurrah's nerve it will be Hawthorn - they have got in Davey's face before. So whilst I don't see a point in playing Miller I think you've hi-lighted a valid issue.

[Guest hangon007]

Absolutely agree. However while I have been a supporter of Miller's in the face of that mindless pap, I do recognise his shortcomings

So do I and why I accept the fact he is playing in the 2nds. However, I always enter ever game with an open mind preferring to focus on the positives.

Absolutely agree. But what has changed with Miller. He monstered some kids who were less in experience, height and weight. It was salad days and he did what he did proficiently. Nothing flash. It was a day to cash in at that level. He did. He could have done even more. I am not sure I saw anything on Saturday which showed me a new Miller trait.

Funny thing for me is I a huge believer in self-confidence & sports psychology. All I hoping is Brad can take that confidence from last weeks game and do it again where ever he plays. Funny you mention Lyndon Dunn below, and I also could not help but take notice of Mitch Morton on Sunday ... they are just two very recent examples that stick in my mind. (I was siting next to a "Tiger tool" where I could have bought him for 20cents before the game ... but after the game he was "un-touchable" "priceless" "reinvented" "our future" but by then he had moved onto a new "whipping boy" ... hehehe ... just part of football and what some supporters like to do.)

Over the year, the MFC forward line has improved markedly. Jurrah is back fit. Watts has improved and is the focus of getting further game time into him. Dunn has lifted enormously. The performance bar has been raised. Miller's 10 goals might have got him a certain gig 10 to 12 weeks ago. But as you can see, barring injury, who do you realistically drop to play Miller without weakening some aspect of the side. And next year it gets tougher with marking forward options like Pettard coming back.

I would hate too see anyone get "comfortable" if you know what I mean. Perceived pressure both on & off the field is a very powerful tool.

The Club and Miller know eactly where each other is at. He is a smart guy and he knows that by being given a one year contract at the last moment prolongs his opportunity in AFL. And I glad he made the best shot of it. But if MFC do want to be a serious contender in future years, Miller will struggle. And from my contacts, Miller is realistic to be aware of that.

And good on him.

Think we are all hoping there is a "little" un-finished business to be done here.

But you are right, while a player is on our list he does deserve respect. And at times, Miller has been subjected to some unreasonable (often personal) attacks on Ology and here.

Thank-you for that. I would just like to see Brad make the most of playing with and "leading" our exciting bunch of kids. If that is not to be. I will always be able to look him in the face and say I wish you well from the bottom of my heart ... and mean it.

[Disco Demons 92]

But you are right, while a player is on our list he does deserve respect. And at times, Miller has been subjected to some unreasonable (often personal) attacks on Ology and here.

sorry if you think i was having a personal attack at miller...i wasn't...getting an AFL body is a fantastic achieivement and kicking 10 goals at VFL level is a massive acheievement in itself...but when a forward kicks 10 goals it's usually because he was far to strong for his opponent...miller is a unit...

[Its Time for Another 4,054]

Because under the draft rules for next year. Each team has to give up an out of contract player to GC and will get compensation in return. Where have you been. Haven't you been following what's happening with Geelong and G Ablett. He is out of contract at the end of this year but the Cats will be compensated with a very high draft pick if he goes to GC even though he is out of contract.

How did he do that? I would have thought if he "wasn't" already on the Suns radar he sure as hell is now!!!

The Suns can pick him up for NOTHING ... so How does that boost his trade value?

If he goes there with comments like yours I dont blame him. Loyalty & respect is a two way street.

[Guest hangon007]

Because under the draft rules for next year. Each team has to give up an out of contract player to GC and will get compensation in return. Where have you been. Haven't you been following what's happening with Geelong and G Ablett. He is out of contract at the end of this year but the Cats will be compensated with a very high draft pick if he goes to GC even though he is out of contract.

Wrong. Each team does not have to give up a "out of contract player" ... Its the Gold Coast option if they want to take an un-contracted player. Massive, massive difference.

Scotty Clayton is already on record as saying they are looking to "target" about 8-10 players as "un-contracted players".

The rules have changed mate haven't you been following? We now go to an arbitration committee and the team is compensated by the rate of pay GOLD COAST dictate to pay the player. Plus the catch is also the pick is massively devalued if you want to use it in the next two drafts? However, why would you ...they are both going to be massively devalued drafts? If we offer our players nothing wonder what the gold coast have to offer them?

"He is out of contract at the end of this year but the Cats will be compensated with a very high draft pick if he goes to GC even though he is out of contract." Every player is treated on a case by case basis. Sorry you cant compare the compensation Geelong will receive to any other player in the league.

Last time I looked the Cats are doing their best to talk their players up ... not ship them off.

Edited August 10, 2010 by hangon007

[Carlos Danger 380]

Brad seems right at home at Casey and that's probably the best place for him. I'd rather see Tapscott get a debut game than see Miller back in the side.

[Its Time for Another 4,054]

Wrong. Each team does not have to give up a "out of contract player" ... Its the Gold Coast option if they want to take an un-contracted player. Massive, massive difference.

Scotty Clayton is already on record as saying they are looking to "target" about 8-10 players as "un-contracted players".

The rules have changed mate haven't you been following? We now go to an arbitration committee and the team is compensated by the rate of pay GOLD COAST dictate to pay the player. Plus the catch is also the pick is massively devalued if you want to use it in the next two drafts? However, why would you ...they are both going to be massively devalued drafts? If we offer our players nothing wonder what the gold coast have to offer them?

"He is out of contract at the end of this year but the Cats will be compensated with a very high draft pick if he goes to GC even though he is out of contract." Every player is treated on a case by case basis. Sorry you cant compare the compensation Geelong will receive to any other player in the league.

Last time I looked the Cats are doing their best to talk their players up ... not ship them off.

They do have to give them up if GC want them. And yes I have been following that's the point of my post. It's crap its based on the rate of pay, it is a whole lot of factors. Agreed you can't compare what Geelong will get for Ablett to anyone else but as you say, compensation is on a case by case basis. Miller has a lot of experience and is a rare key position player. In other teams who don't have the young players we now have taking positions in the forward line, he would be very likely to get a game after 10 goals. He may have a very important role to play in a developing young side without any hard bodied KPP's. His value on a case by case basis might be worth more to GC than it is to us and therefore worth a decent draft pick. The fact the draft is stuffed is a different issue. Some great players have been picked up late in drafts. Eg Cameron Bruce, Bartrom, Ryan O'Keefe, Adam Goodes etc etc etc. A half decent draft pick is not worthless.

[Webber 10,127]

Brad Miller will not interest the Gold Coast. They will be taking proven AFL players. Miller is a VFL player and they know it. Anybody who thinks they will take him, let alone that it ends in draft compensation for us, will be disappointed. None of this is a disparagement to his effort and likeability, it's just the reality borne of his talent level. Nothing more to see here.....move on.

[Summer Blease 0]

Miller consistantly brings nothing to the 'AFL' table and the future is currently functioning well in our forward line. Lets please not disrupt this newfound chi..

Miller can hopefully dominate the VFL the next few weeks and we can hope someone may take a bite. I didn't think Miller would be a chance of being traded but now I wouldn't be so surprised if Gold Coast had an interest. He is determined and big bodied if nothing else, he is thought of as a 'power forward' so perhaps keeping him in the VFL may be a better way to promote him. Who knows

[e25 5]

For those who think Miller has no chance at all of being at the Suns next season (which pretty much includes me)

what the hell is Brad doing having a chat with Guy McKenna after the match?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/karmichael-hunt-to-play-in-defence/story-e6frf9jf-1225904042959

I wouldn't think it's usual to talk to the opposition coach and give him pointers after a game.

[DeezMan 4]

For those who think Miller has no chance at all of being at the Suns next season (which pretty much includes me)

what the hell is Brad doing having a chat with Guy McKenna after the match?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/karmichael-hunt-to-play-in-defence/story-e6frf9jf-1225904042959

I wouldn't think it's usual to talk to the opposition coach and give him pointers after a game.

"Miller is off to the Gold Coast Suns... doo dahhh doo dahhh. The only decent Miller is his wifey Pia... oh the doo dahh day!"

[Lost Highway 31]

Brad Miller will not interest the Gold Coast. They will be taking proven AFL players. Miller is a VFL player and they know it. Anybody who thinks they will take him, let alone that it ends in draft compensation for us, will be disappointed. None of this is a disparagement to his effort and likeability, it's just the reality borne of his talent level. Nothing more to see here.....move on.

I cringe at that 'Nothing more to see here.....move on' type stuff; instant dismissal. Nearly as bad as 'going forward' which is tacked on to nearly everything these days.

But back to the substance of what you and some others are saying: I think the new team WOULD be interested in a player like this - he's big, hard, a trier, and a good team man. A team with a lot of young and untried players will need a few like him, and players better than Miller will not be easy to acquire. There'd be no doubting Melbourne's willingness to part with him in this case. I don't think Miller should play for us again, but I've also said that if he could kick properly he'd be a 2-goals-per-game player. Trouble is, he can't kick more than 40 metres, and with any accuracy it's about 30. He's not very talented, but he gets the ball often enough to do some damage, if he just knew how.

In a sense, he IS a 'proven' player; you know what you're getting, and it's not all bad. Just not good for Melbourne at this stage. I can see him being a useful utility and leader at a new club that might be scratching around for big men. I'd say he'd be thinking of his 10 goal haul more as bait for the GC than a stepping stone back into our seniors. What has me wondering, though, is the possibility our club would give him a 'farewell' match. He has been a stalwart, in a way, after all. But I doubt that he'd be picked while there's a remote chance of getting into the 8. Maybe the first match we play in which all chance has already gone, if such should eventuate.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I wouldn't think it's usual to talk to the opposition coach and give him pointers after a game.

This is not always the case. Many of the coaches of another team have played together with players from another side or have had some involvement with the player through the AFL.

Aside from the fluffy article, its hard to determine what pointers were given. Its feasible the conversation focussed on the shortcoming of younger Suns players.

I cringe at that 'Nothing more to see here.....move on' type stuff; instant dismissal. Nearly as bad as 'going forward' which is tacked on to nearly everything these days.

But back to the substance of what you and some others are saying: I think the new team WOULD be interested in a player like this - he's big, hard, a trier, and a good team man. A team with a lot of young and untried players will need a few like him, and players better than Miller will not be easy to acquire. There'd be no doubting Melbourne's willingness to part with him in this case. I don't think Miller should play for us again, but I've also said that if he could kick properly he'd be a 2-goals-per-game player. Trouble is, he can't kick more than 40 metres, and with any accuracy it's about 30. He's not very talented, but he gets the ball often enough to do some damage, if he just knew how.

What is more cringeworthy is an assessment like that which is patently not true and if you had watched Casey on the weekend for example you would know that the bolded statement is just carp.

In a sense, he IS a 'proven' player; you know what you're getting, and it's not all bad. Just not good for Melbourne at this stage. I can see him being a useful utility and leader at a new club that might be scratching around for big men. I'd say he'd be thinking of his 10 goal haul more as bait for the GC than a stepping stone back into our seniors. What has me wondering, though, is the possibility our club would give him a 'farewell' match. He has been a stalwart, in a way, after all. But I doubt that he'd be picked while there's a remote chance of getting into the 8. Maybe the first match we play in which all chance has already gone, if such should eventuate.

I think Miller will realise that his 10 goal haul will not overly influence the Suns. Guy McKenna has been around long enough to know what cuts it at AFL and what cuts it at VFL. He will know the gulf and will know what Miller can deliver.

You raise a good point about a farewell game. If it was last year or 2008 I can see it happening. If we are still in the hunt for the finals then I cant see him being granted that opportunity. This is not to say he does not deserve a farewell game. If the club were gratuitous enough to give that mercenary Pickett his 200th game then Miller deserves some proper recognition. Hopefully something is done without all the mindless and ridiculous "dud" or "hack" posts that hit these forums.

[Tricky 337]

Why are people picking 2 over 3?

[Dee*ceiving 919]

If there is any justice in the world Miller will be in the sights of GC17 or another club. In a soon to be 18 team competition there is no doubt he is good enough to remain on an AFL list.

If he keeps kicking goals, albeit at VFL level, his potential suitors will grow and good luck to him. His time at Melbourne has come to an end but I will be happy to see him playing good football in another jumper.

If he is 2011s Jay Schulz I for one will be happy for him

[Guest hangon007]

It's crap its based on the rate of pay, it is a whole lot of factors.

Your wrong again. Its not "a whole lot of factors" ...

There is only one factor in Millers case. What GC are prepared to pay him. Which dictates our "compensation" (the only other factor that counts is age ... but that works against us in Millers case because of his age. Younger is better.) As i said above if we want to dispute the compensation we can then go to the "arbitration" panel on a case by case basis. But I suppose if we ultimately offer him nothing ... I cant see why we would bother.

So in the case we are discussing the GC17 would hold all the cards assuming we dont offer him a contract for next year.

Edited August 12, 2010 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

I think Miller will realise that his 10 goal haul will not overly influence the Suns. Guy McKenna has been around long enough to know what cuts it at AFL and what cuts it at VFL. He will know the gulf and will know what Miller can deliver.

I 100% agree, Scotty Clayton is no mug as well. I think their decision will have been made long before last weeks game ... either way. The "ball" is in our court if we

a/ want to retain him

b/ try and get some "reasonable" compensation

c/ allow him to go to the club of his choice for "nothing" baring in mind this upcoming draft.

Now because he is "out-of contract" I honestly cant see B being a viable option.

[e25 5]

I'm not so sure.

If Brad isn't at MFC and another club don't pick him up, isn't it better to get a minimum wage contract with GC17 than settle for a spot in the VFL?

From GC17 's perspective, he be at least good tall depth and is also respected for his leadership, which the Suns are bereft of.

It's not like they are tight for spots on the list.

He might not even play, but if, as they have said, they probably won't fill all the spots on the list, then he'd be a better leader for the young bigs than Karmicheal Hunt.

If posters think we'd consider keeping him if Bate left, then why wouldnt the Suns want him?

[Matt Demon 1,387]

I 100% agree, Scotty Clayton is no mug as well. I think their decision will have been made long before last weeks game ... either way. The "ball" is in our court if we

a/ want to retain him

b/ try and get some "reasonable" compensation

c/ allow him to go to the club of his choice for "nothing" baring in mind this upcoming draft.

Now because he is "out-of contract" I honestly cant see B being a viable option.

Miller wont be playing this week. He was told during the week he's no longer in our plans and will be moved on at seasons end.

[Guest hangon007]

Miller wont be playing this week. He was told during the week he's no longer in our plans and will be moved on at seasons end.

Its "how you move your players on thats important" He wont be the first player to hear that news and he sure as "hell" wont be the last. Its all about respect. If we dont learn to respect them they wont learn to respect us.

I go back to my Geelong example, if we are going to follow them on the field, then why not follow them off the field.

However, time will tell. What goes around comes around.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Miller wont be playing this week. He was told during the week he's no longer in our plans and will be moved on at seasons end.

I hope that is wasn't done like that. I'm not a fan of Brad's football ability (good, honest player that isn't quite up to AFL level) but I am a huge fan of what he has got out of himself. He deserves better than to be named as an emg and then be told that it was all just mind games.

We should be a better club than that so I am hoping that your mail was missing a good dose of respect and sensitivity that should have come with the message - if you are right, of course.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Rojik of the Arctic

[Matt Demon 1,387]

I hope that is wasn't done like that. I'm not a fan of Brad's football ability (good, honest player that isn't quite up to AFL level) but I am a huge fan of what he has got out of himself. He deserves better than to be named as an emg and then be told that it was all just mind games.

We should be a better club than that so I am hoping that your mail was missing a good dose of respect and sensitivity that should have come with the message - if you are right, of course.

The club has a heap of respect for Brad. I didnt mean to sound so blunt, I was just passing on the news that he wont be at the club next year. He has no plans to head to the Gold Coast either. If he's not picked up by another Vic club he will play VFL or local footy.

[jayceebee31 670]

Well he'll have to wait for an Injury or bad form to make a place for him.

I don't agree- I think he is in form- need height in the forward line- worth a try.Drop Bennell for Miller.

Edited August 13, 2010 by jayceebee31

[e25 5]

I hope that is wasn't done like that. I'm not a fan of Brad's football ability (good, honest player that isn't quite up to AFL level) but I am a huge fan of what he has got out of himself. He deserves better than to be named as an emg and then be told that it was all just mind games.

We should be a better club than that so I am hoping that your mail was missing a good dose of respect and sensitivity that should have come with the message - if you are right, of course.

There's no necessary disrespect there - if he has been told he is no longer in our plans beyond this season, it doesn't preclude him from playing a role in the remainder of this one.

I think respect involves letting him know as soon as the decision has been made, rather than leave him wondering.

In any case, I could see him performing an important role at the club going forward, in a non-playing capacity of course.