Dockers overhaul Demons

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

This article appeared on the back of the Melbourne Age Sports section stating that since the Dockers entered the competition in 1995, they have been last on the win-loss ratio ladder.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/hunt-a-churchie-goer-at-best-20100531-wrc7.html?from=age_sb

This year however, they have won enough games to overtake us on the list. Thankfully, we will not spend too much time down there in the next few years.

The link leads to the table, which is a quarter of the way down. The story is half way down the page.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Dreamin' Demon

[darkhorse72 1,794]

just proves stats are meaningless..

[Sir Why You Little 35,322]

This article appeared on the back of the Melbourne Age Sports section stating that since the Dockers entered the competition in 1995, they have been last on the win-loss ratio ladder.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/hunt-a-churchie-goer-at-best-20100531-wrc7.html?from=age_sb

This year however, they have won enough games to overtake us on the list. Thankfully, we will not spend too much time down there in the next few years.

The link leads to the table, which is a quarter of the way down. The story is half way down the page.

Yes i read that article over lunch & it Disturbed me. This is more motivation for us to succeed for an extended period of time......A worse win/loss than the shockers....oh the pain.

[Lord Travis 10,327]

If that article is correct, then that is downright embarrassing. How can a team that's played multiple finals series and a Grand Final in that time have won less games than Freo and Richmond, perennial losers who have made finals once in the last 15 years? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. If it's true, then it shows how up and down we have been. Surely that cant be right though! Let's hope for sustained success in the future!

[H_T 2,941]

If that article is correct, then that is downright embarrassing. How can a team that's played multiple finals series and a Grand Final in that time have won less games than Freo and Richmond, perennial losers who have made finals once in the last 15 years? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. If it's true, then it shows how up and down we have been. Surely that cant be right though! Let's hope for sustained success in the future!

Remember the odds and even years ? When we were down, we were down.

'96 down

'97 last

'99 down

'01 poor

'03 shocker

'07 ouch

'08 arrgh!last

'09 sh!t last

Oh, yes it can be right.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I can't believe we've only had one draw... The Cats one from '06 I think.

I was CERTAIN I'd bled through more than that. I had to check on it on footywire.

[Red Sox 2]

Crap!!!

Pity we cant use 87-94 stats here as this would see us a lot higher.

I always used to use the line 'at least we aren't Richmond or the Shockers'!! This is a shock to the system in some ways.....but really since 94 we became a side that at our best could trouble the best (94, 98, 2000) but would badly badly drop away in the bad years and struggle to beat the worst....mostly not even being in the race.

What happened with this sides (94 - 2000) and why did they drop away so badly? Even 2002 & 2006 and everything between those years......I used to always go along to games against the better sides knowing that we were a chance but the average sides used to see knots in the stomach. Was this the fault of the coaching staff, the players?

We are at the start of a new era now and I really do hope that this legacy of getting ahead of ourselves is a thing of the past, the Nth and West Coast games this year give me those feelings again but can put that down to the fact that we are still developing.

I really do hope that Cam Schwab and others are well aware of this stat as it very very damning against out great club!

[Red Sox 2]

One thing that makes me feel a little better......pies and hawks right down this list also. Hawks won a flag two years ago.......give me one of those and these stats can take a jump!

[45HG 1,539]

Not convinced.

[Dr. Mubutu 697]

Not convinced.

45HG16, you were definitely right before.

If you look at the actual number of games, it only adds up to 330 (for all teams bar Port and Lions). This comes to the 10 rounds this year, + 15 22-round years.

This table is for H&A games only.

Just shows that when we were good, we were pretty good, but when bad, we were awful. (1997, 2003, 2007-9)

[titan_uranus 23,228]

Here's another stat:

Number of finals appearances 2000-2006: We are 1st (equal with Essendon and Sydney) on 4 out of 6.

Richmond and Fremantle are last with 1.

Stats can be used however you want.

[45HG 1,539]

Yeah I thought I was right but went back and got a bit confused.

We've won 132 matches in regular season before this year, they have won 129.

So now that would stand at 136 and 137. But to not include finals is ludicrous.

Hence pre-season should stand at 138-130.

[45HG 1,539]

This reminded me of this old thread

[titan_uranus 23,228]

This reminded me of this old thread

Haha, yes I do like that finals in 2000-2006 stat, don't I?

[MadAsHell 4,089]

I wouldn't worry about it to much, people can use stats to prove anything. Take a look at this stat I came up with this morning.

Please note I'm home sick with the flu, only reason I have time to do this.

FINALS WINNING % V VICTORIAN CLUBS SINCE 1991

Years in comp/ Finals v Vic Clubs/ Wins v Vic Clubs/ Losses v Vic Clubs/ Winning %

1. Geelong 19/ 23/ 17/ 6/ 73.91

2. Brisbane Lions 13/ 15/ 10/ 5/ 66.67

3. Melbourne 19/ 12/ 8/ 4/ 66.67

4. North Melbourne 19/ 16/ 9/ 7/ 56.25

5. Hawthorn 19/ 9/ 5/ 4/ 55.56

6. West Coast 19/ 22/ 12/ 10/ 54.55

7. Port Adelaide 13/ 11/ 6/ 5/ 54.55

8. Sydney 19/ 11/ 6/ 5/ 54.55

9. Essendon 19/ 13/ 7/ 6/ 53.85

10. Adelaide 19/ 16/ 8/ 8/ 50.00

11. Brisbane Bears 6/ 4/ 2/ 2/ 50.00

12. Fremantle 15/ 2/ 1/ 1/ 50.00

13. Carlton 19/ 12/ 5/ 7/ 41.67

14. Richmond 19/ 5/ 2/ 3/ 40.00

15. St. Kilda 19/ 13/ 5/ 8/ 38.46

16. Western Bulldogs 19/ 11/ 2/ 9/ 18.18

17. Collingwood 19/ 6/ 0/ 6/ 00.00

18. Fitzroy 6/ 0/ 0/ 0/ N/A

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

But to not include finals is ludicrous.

This is true however, you take the table for what it is - every team in the competion since 1995 (When Freo entered) playing each other - this can only happen during the H & A period. During finals - some teams are not involved.

As mentioned by another poster, a finals only table will make US look better. Ahhhh statistics - they're great.

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

FINALS WINNING % V VICTORIAN CLUBS SINCE 1991

But why did you pick 1991? Port Power & Fremantle were not in the competition at the time therefore, these statistics are skewed.

To be accurate, you will need provide the same stats BUT from when both teams were there.

[MadAsHell 4,089]

But why did you pick 1991? Port Power & Fremantle were not in the competition at the time therefore, these statistics are skewed.

To be accurate, you will need provide the same stats BUT from when both teams were there.

Not skewed as it's based off percentage of wins v vic clubs in finals, doesn't matter if you've played 2 games or 20.

Also the article that initially started this thread is based from 95 before Power were in the comp, but because it's based off % and not simply amount of wins it still holds relevance just like mine does.

Also with it being based from 1991 Collingwood are right down towards the bottom.

[Dr. Mubutu 697]

But why did you pick 1991? Port Power & Fremantle were not in the competition at the time therefore, these statistics are skewed.

To be accurate, you will need provide the same stats BUT from when both teams were there.

Makes Collingwood look awful?

edit: Damn. I really should refresh threads before I reply.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Dr. Mubutu

[MadAsHell 4,089]

Makes Collingwood look awful?

edit: Damn. I really should refresh threads before I reply.

Exactly!

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

Also with it being based from 1991 Collingwood are right down towards the bottom.

Excellent choice - now I agree.

[praha 10,575]

just proves stats are meaningless..

How exactly is this stat meaningless? We are the worst performed team in the last 15 years. It's right there.

I think most of you are delusional. Daniher only had like a 48% win/loss record with us, and there was no "AMAZING" season, just a few really good ones. There was always that brain snap sometime during the season where we just lost it for a few weeks. Then we always had that one year down the bottom where we only win 5 games. That's 17 losses. In all of our winning years over the past 15 years, we've NEVER had 17 wins and 5 losses. Did we ever lose less than 8 games?

We have been the joke of the competition for 45 years. No doubt about it. Worst win/loss record over a 15 year span. No flag for 45 years.

This is why this rebuilding phase is the most important. It MUST succeed. I'm not sure this team can survive another 4-5 years out of contention like we are in the middle of now. We've been a very poor club, so everything needs to completely change now.

[MadAsHell 4,089]

How exactly is this stat meaningless? We are the worst performed team in the last 15 years. It's right there.

I think most of you are delusional. Daniher only had like a 48% win/loss record with us, and there was no "AMAZING" season, just a few really good ones. There was always that brain snap sometime during the season where we just lost it for a few weeks. Then we always had that one year down the bottom where we only win 5 games. That's 17 losses. In all of our winning years over the past 15 years, we've NEVER had 17 wins and 5 losses. Did we ever lose less than 8 games?

We have been the joke of the competition for 45 years. No doubt about it. Worst win/loss record over a 15 year span. No flag for 45 years.

This is why this rebuilding phase is the most important. It MUST succeed. I'm not sure this team can survive another 4-5 years out of contention like we are in the middle of now. We've been a very poor club, so everything needs to completely change now.

On simple win/loss ratio yes you're right we're the worst performed team in the AFL, but at the same time we've had more success then the likes of teams such as Fremantle and Richmond. We've played finals football 6 times in that period compared to 2 times for each of Fremantle and Richmond, we've also played in a grand final where as Fremantle and Richmond haven't. Neither has Western Bulldogs for that matter.

As mentioned by a few people earlier stats can be misleading, I still don't think we've been as low as Carlton have been from the period of 2002 - 2008. Yes we haven't achieved what we all want to see (a premiership), and haven't been as consistent as we would all like but we've still had forms of success at the same time.

Now lets hope we can start to excell and show some Geelong like dominance over the coming years to put stats like this to bed.

[Sir Why You Little 35,322]

How exactly is this stat meaningless? We are the worst performed team in the last 15 years. It's right there.

I think most of you are delusional. Daniher only had like a 48% win/loss record with us, and there was no "AMAZING" season, just a few really good ones. There was always that brain snap sometime during the season where we just lost it for a few weeks. Then we always had that one year down the bottom where we only win 5 games. That's 17 losses. In all of our winning years over the past 15 years, we've NEVER had 17 wins and 5 losses. Did we ever lose less than 8 games?

We have been the joke of the competition for 45 years. No doubt about it. Worst win/loss record over a 15 year span. No flag for 45 years.

This is why this rebuilding phase is the most important. It MUST succeed. I'm not sure this team can survive another 4-5 years out of contention like we are in the middle of now. We've been a very poor club, so everything needs to completely change now.

I think this stat shows very well how Bad we have Been. No point making excuses. In the not too distant past we have been shocking, Considering we had the players to make final series in a lot of those years, and then to fall to the bottom so quickly with that same list...Who Else did that as regularly as the MFC? No One.

These stats i hope are used by our present administration as a Motivator to never get to that situation again ever.

Lets not try to sweeten them up, that statistic is what it is. Home & Away wins since 1995. Games that All clubs played. MFC is on the Bottom. Our Finals appearences only makes our other years look all the more bad.

Too many players were to well paid for too long i think.

Thank Christ those days are over it seems.

This is why we as supporters must never again accept a loss as being "good enough" Sure they will happen i know, but what ever caused it must be worked out & eradicated ASAP.

Something that sadly ND couldn't conquer-he had no plan B.

The years we made the Finals we never apart from 2000 finished as high as we should have, always dropping winnable games other teams wouldn't.

This is why i believe CS player Graph rating system is important. And it must be adhered to.

Players who do not cut it must be relieved from the list. The good kids must be encouraged to become great.

The least number of wins since 95. What a disgrace. I am glad that Vlad put the boot in to us a couple of years ago. He probably was looking at this stat just before he said it.

Edited June 2, 2010 by why you little

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

On simple win/loss ratio yes you're right we're the worst performed team in the AFL, but at the same time we've had more success then the likes of teams such as Fremantle and Richmond. We've played finals football 6 times in that period compared to 2 times for each of Fremantle and Richmond, we've also played in a grand final where as Fremantle and Richmond haven't. Neither has Western Bulldogs for that matter.

As mentioned by a few people earlier stats can be misleading, I still don't think we've been as low as Carlton have been from the period of 2002 - 2008. Yes we haven't achieved what we all want to see (a premiership), and haven't been as consistent as we would all like but we've still had forms of success at the same time.

Its a fair metric used and we have nothing to boast over Freo, Tigers, Dogs and ourselves who have all got pitiful records. Our finals performances have mostly been stocking filler cameos without seriously threatening the top sides when it counted. FWIW, I hated the 2000 GF. We were outclassed badly and thrown around like an old rag doll. The same as we were in 1988.

I cant work how anyone can tout our "success"! What success!! C Boy is close to the mark here.