Rivers

[beelzebub 22,225]

Its taken a while for some to come to terms with the reality that is Jared. Hes not up to it anymore as its got too quick for him and he now has limited arrows in his quiver.

Some of us tried to tell others this ..but were howled down as heretics.. Sadly its just what is. Hes not part of our future..but part of our past. There are others who are quicker and have more upside going forward. They ought to be getting game time, simple as that. This is not a premiership year its a 'logging up hours in the driving seat " year.

We have our roving backline general ..he's called Jack Grimes.

Thanks Jared but its time to move on son.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Rivers was well beaten by Kennedy but was unlucky to concede the 1st goal due to a free kick down the ground against Davey. Losing that contest magnified the problems for Garland, as Kennedy would take a grab then wheel around and deliver lace out for Le Cras. Luckily he didn't have his kicking boots on otherwise would have been a blowout. And all the defenders were badly let down by the midfield today.

Who was Frawley matched up with... Lynch??? Why is Frawley so rarely played on the most dangerous forward? Surely going into the game the goals were going to come from Le Cras & Kennedy. Frawley is widely considered our best defender (and I agree) so why not start him on the best forwards before they get their confidence up. He does not provide enough rebound out of defense (and his kicking is only mediocre) to justify keeping him on the 3rd best forward across half back.

Not blaming Frawley for the loss but I think Wellman/Bailey got it wrong today with the match-ups.

Agree with this - we had 4 talls in the backs but Garland on Le Cras makes no sense to me with Le Cras the quality forward.

[Rogue 585]

Clearly our club holds him in high regard, or they wouldn't have stuck with him through years of surgeries and injuries and they wouldn't have put him in the leadership group, so he is worth something.

First, given that we haven't exactly had trouble finding guys to delist in the past few years, we haven't had to sacrifice anyone particularly good to keep Rivers.

I haven't exactly shed a tear over guys like Weetra, Godfrey and Ward, and moving on older guys like Robbo and Wheels was going to happen regardless of whether we kept Rivers.

Second, being in the leadership group doesn't mean you're worthy of a best-22 spot, nor does it mean you're going to be kept around particularly long.

Exhibit 'A' - Miller, who most on here think is finished.

Not true, the "debate" as you so nicely put it, has been that Rivers is either completely crap and should never be seen in a Melbourne jumper again, or that he is a great player and easily part of our best 22.

Without getting into a primary school-level argument, it is true that the same concerns you're airing over Rivers have been discussed long before now.

While many posts do tend towards hyperbole (eg. those who won't hear any type of criticism over their favourite players) there have been plenty of posters talking about the way in which Rivers is being squeezed out of our team because of his limited utility.

I know because I've previously posted the same types of comments you've started a thread about, but don't take it from me - posts in this thread from guys like bb and 45 are referring to those discussions.

Hes not part of our future..but part of our past. There are others who are quicker and have more upside going forward. They ought to be getting game time, simple as that. This is not a premiership year its a 'logging up hours in the driving seat " year.

I like the 'logging hours' analogy.

[Sir Why You Little 34,544]

Well Bailey certainly rated Jared Rivers very highly on "One week at a time" last night.

[H_T 2,941]

Agree with this - we had 4 talls in the backs but Garland on Le Cras makes no sense to me with Le Cras the quality forward.

Garland is pretty quick. I thought it was a most appropriate match up, because Le Cras is okay over head on the lead too. Frawley & Warnock had Lynch & Kennedy to contend with. At various times though they had switched for certain periods. Garland was on Kennedy for a bit. Frawley on Le Cras for a little.

Guys like Bartram or Bruce would have struggled against Le Cras. Grimes might be a little slower than Garland in my opinion.

[Rogue 585]

Grimes might be a little slower than Garland in my opinion.

I agree. He wasn't an option. I thought Garland looked slower than I remembered him as, which wouldn't be all that surprising given his injury woes. Regardless, a forward should be able to get out on a lead and if the ball's kicked to the right spot the defender [won't] be able to do much.

[H_T 2,941]

I agree. He wasn't an option. I thought Garland looked slower than I remembered him as, which wouldn't be all that surprising given his injury woes. Regardless, a forward should be able to get out on a lead and if the ball's kicked to the right spot the defender [won't] be able to do much.

Indeed. Which is what my opinion was on those passes that were hit up on Rivers opponent early on. Whilst Rivers trailed a bit, they were too good.

[Harrisonrules 273]

A lot of focus has been on the importance of footspeed, eg Carlton forwards, bombers etc. We have been examining our own demons with speed and ultimately criticing those who lack it. I joined those who were tantilized by McLeans departure wondering what we would get in his place. McLean was slow when it comes to leg speed. But foot speed on its own is not enough. I cann't wait to see Gysberts play, hopefully quick of foot, but definitely quick hands.

What is so often not respected is those who are quick of mind. Rivers is our expert. Reads the play far ahead of anyone else, and has superior skills than most. A lot have criticed him for his lack of leg pace. I even agree but don't agree with those who want to get rid of him. You cann't get rid of a player like that and lose his hand skill when we don't have a lot of that type. No, half back flank my not be his best position because leg speed is great there. I don't understand why the coaching staff is showing so little imagination to experiment with him on the forward line. His mind speed and hand skills could be the killer we want up forward.

[Little Goffy 12,608]

Rivers did claw his way back into the game and did a couple of classic Rivers marks from opposition kicks.

Jury out.

Would I be speaking for everyone if I wrapped the various opinions into -

"Concerned about River,, he is looking vulnerable, I'm really hoping he adapts and refreshes, I'd be really dissappointed to see him have to try again at another club because I believe he is genuinely devoted to the Demons"

[Rogue 585]

Would I be speaking for everyone if I wrapped the various opinions into -

"Concerned about River,, he is looking vulnerable, I'm really hoping he adapts and refreshes, I'd be really dissappointed to see him have to try again at another club because I believe he is genuinely devoted to the Demons"

I don't know what the deal is with the sugar-coated second sentence.

First, plenty of people don't particularly care about the fate of players who they think aren't good enough, let alone when they're at another Club.

Second, what is there to suggest that he's 'genuinely devoted' to the Demons? Is it any different from most other guys who fall out of favour or are delisted every year?

I want Rivers to 'adapt and refresh', as you put it, because I want our team to be the best it can. The better our list is, the better we'll perform.

It's not because of some love for Rivers though. I can understand those who are supportive of current players, but if Rivers doesn't make it someone else will take his spot (and there's no reason to think they won't be as 'genuinely deovted', however you measure that).

[MrReims 305]

Well Bailey certainly rated Jared Rivers very highly on "One week at a time" last night.

This seems to be what a lot are missing. Jared was asked to a job he doesn't normally do to allow Warnock to float with and smother NicNat. I haven't seen any praise yet on what a good job that was on here yet either. So considering Rivers was out of his comfort circle for a little while and we weren't put away in the first half, i think his efforts were commendable. Jared's ability to play a different match day role allowed for a clever experiment form Bailey to do its job very effectively. Warnock should also be proud of himself, he continues to surprise me. On a side note, when was the last bad game Warnock played? I really don't remember it....

[Rogue 585]

This seems to be what a lot are missing. Jared was asked to a job he doesn't normally do

Concerns over Rivers' long-term viability in our backline aren't based on one game.

It's not even just based on this one season.

On a side note, when was the last bad game Warnock played? I really don't remember it....

I think he might have struggled a little in pre-season, but I agree - he's been a great 'find' for us.

[MrReims 305]

Concerns over Rivers' long-term viability in our backline aren't based on one game.

It's not even just based on this one season.

Don't remember saying it was. This thread at times and my reply however were regarding this game. I don't feel any hasty decisions on his long term future are required just yet. He is obviously passing grade or he wouldn't be playing and some latitude to find his feet in what has been a difficult area surely can be allowed after such a long absence from a regular spot.

An optimisist would say lets wait for the improvement

[Rogue 585]

Don't remember saying it was. This thread at times and my reply however were regarding this game.

You started talking about how he was given an 'unfamiliar role' v WCE.

I was pointing out that these concerns have been aired over not just one game, or even one season.

I don't feel any hasty decisions on his long term future are required just yet. He is obviously passing grade or he wouldn't be playing

He hasn't played every week. He came back into the team after McKenzie was withdrawn from the side and I won't be surprised if he's omitted at some point either.

[Doggo 32]

I don't understand why the coaching staff is showing so little imagination to experiment with him on the forward line. His mind speed and hand skills could be the killer we want up forward.

Agree

[Demons 32 235]

Bailey said on One Week at a time that he could see a few of the kids developing into captain.

But for the next captain he threw up 3 names....

Brent Moloney, Aaron Davey and Jared Rivers.

You don't even mention the word captain if you don't believe someone is a certain starter in your squad.

All this is opinion, but one thing is for certain everyone... Jared Rivers will be playing week in, week out (barring injuries) for the Melbourne Demons.