The Butcher Shop

[Mousey 47]

Well i thought i would start a thread dedicated to the draft hopeful John Butcher.

Judging by many on the site, people seem to think its a done deal getting Scully and Trengove with our first two picks. I agree with Scully but im not so confident on the other one as yet, thinking the club will do there due diligence regarding the decision.

There are not many KPP in this draft, Butcher is regarded as the best one and was even regarded as one of the best with Watts last year. I just dont think we can just disregard this.

My thinking is we have the 2 first picks of the draft... why not have the best of both worlds- choose the best player in the draft which happens to be a midfielder in Scully and the best KPP in Butcher.

I think our current batch of midfielders are not too bad at all and just need that player like a Scully and Blease to add some pace.

In the game telecasted and shown on youtube of Butch in the un18 carni this year, i admit was not his best showcase. I believe he was injured during the carnival but and this could of contributed to his output.

A question i pose is-

If last years highlight reel of Butcher in the last game of the un18 carni was actaully THIS years footage would people be thinking different?

I think also another line of thinking that people should consider is that he is 197cm tall! Could he possibly have the versatility to play a bit of ruck? Very long and seems to be quick and nimble.... I just think he has a lot of positive things going for him that would add a lot to our current list.

Oh and finally....what a cool last name to scream out.....Buuuuuuuuuuuuuutcchhhheer haha

Lets use this thread to discuss the posibility of the big Jonny Butcher wearing the red and blue next year.

Please note, i have not even made up my mind 100% yet who to pick with pick 2 and i know it doesnt in all grand scheme of things mean much because in the end it will be the clubs decision...its just good to see our options and i think the draft camp will change peoples mind again possibly.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Mousey, everything the football department has said during the year indicates that we're looking for an elite midfielder and a big, pack breaking key forward. The complicated part comes when we consider the notion of 'best available'. If Butcher was in the top two U18 players in the league, I'm pretty certain we'd take him. If he's clearly got enough deficiencies in his game, we're more likely to take the next best player which in this draft happens to be a midfielder. If a ruckman was rated one of the best two in the draft we could just as easily be tempted to take the ruckman. If Watts, Naitanui, Scully, Trengove, Morabito, Cotchin, Vickery, Kreuzer, Ziebell and Rich were all available in this draft I'd be interested to see how people would rank them based on their respective U18 football.

Having said all that if all of Scully, Trengove, Butcher and any random ruckman were ranked evenly, I'd still take two midfielders with picks 1 and 2. The emergence of Jurrah and the potential for Garland or Martin to go forward with the successful return of Rivers and the on-going improvement of Frawley and Warnock gives me enough confidence in our forward options. Watts obviously has to show why he was so highly rated but unlike the keyboard heroes over at BigFooty, I'm confident he will.

Scully and Trengove would be my picks but I wouldn't rule out Morabito and Rohan. Has Butcher left his run too late? A Sidebottom/McLean like display at the end of the U18 season might just yet sway a few Demonlanders, including myself.

[Disco Demons 92]

i must admit...i do agree with you now i know butcher is 197cm tall...he was quite impressive in 2008...based on his youtube clip. and he looks like a guy who will put on some decent muscle as he develops. (johnny brown style) that being said...i'm going off what i can see on the youtube clips. plus he's still kicking goals in TAC from my review of the paper on the wkend...imagine davey going forward looking for blokes like watts and butcher! i think he could wear the number 9 fo sho'

[StevenStretch 1]

Hi All sorry I think I posted this in another thread but think it fits better here,

I had a good first hand look at Butcher a few weeks ago when he was playing for his local side Maffra in the seniors despite his little influence on the game I must say I was very impressed, his speed and marking ability were both outstanding not to mention his size. He did not look out of depth playing amongst men. However he did fade out of the game fairly quickly, an ex power player who also claimed jack watts as a scalp last season went to him early on and can now add butcher to his list. I have also heard through Gippsland Power that his work rate is very low, he has all the tools but not willing to always use them, he only runs around the 5km mark every game as opposed to a Richo or Reiwoldt who is between 10 and 15. Teaching him a work-rate that will see him succeed at AFL level appears to be the challenge...

This doesn't make picking him any clearer at this stage because lets be honest once draft day is done and dusted it doesn't matter who has what talent and what number they were selected it comes down to who is willing to work the hardest along with mental and physical maturity.

[Axis of Bob 11,841]

The problem with the 2008 clip is that you don't get to play against Tasmania every week!!

[Mousey 47]

good posts guys.. Like i said i think Draft Camp will be telling when the club sits down with players, asks them the hard questions and analyizes there strengths and weaknesses and if there is scope there for improvement of the strengths and weaknessess.

I have also heard murmours about his work ethic.

I just think a 197cm KPP player that moves like him is very enticing... I also think with his jumping ability and long arms could go alright in the ruck also?...In the forward line i see him as a FF as he appears to be a good contested mark.

A forward line up of-

Bate Watts Maric/Green/Sylvia????

Jurrah Butcher Wona

Looks pretty potent to me...?

ATM i see more positives than negatives and scope to improve his game where he appears weak in.

You can and should i say BAILEY and co can teach work ethic and develop we know this, eg. Sylvia, Garland etc, you cant teach natural talent and ability...

[Axis of Bob 11,841]

ATM i see more positives than negatives and scope to improve his game where he appears weak in.

Yep, nobody is saying he'll be a mega-dud. That's why people think he'll be a top 5 or so pick.

[StevenStretch 1]

I agree with you. As I said his pace and athletic ability (I saw him lead about 40m flat out from the first step and mark the ball at his toes) are the difficult traits you cannot teach however I think by putting a GPS on him and a couple of AFL pre seasons then you can sort out his work ethic pretty quickly. I also like the thought of big vic country lads making it as KP forwards. With his pace and strong hands even just playing in an open 50m he could be very very dangerous. Another positive is that he is already a fairly big boy and I don't think it will take him too long to bulk up and come on in that sense.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I've changed my mind re Butcher & our 2nd pick, since this time last year.

My reasons are that i've realised that we are not as solid in the on-ball department as I thought last year. We need the two best players we can get, in this case I believe its Scully then Trengove/Cunnington/Martin. Don't right off Tapscott & a longer shot, Rohan, who I believe would not be a midfielder for some time. Do we have the timeframe to develope Rohan into a mid, as a 2nd pick? I think we'll go for the quickest return this year with our first 2 picks. (Scully then Trengove/Cunnington/Martin)..

I'd take the tall forward option with pick 18. Panos/Carlisle/McDonald et al.

I think we could also try to trade some players out, for further 2nd/3rd Rnd picks.

Miller/Newton/Dunn/Buckley.

PS: Sorry I forgot the main thing i wanted to say re Butcher, he doesn't kick all that well, field kicking is off, so he could very well be a one dimensional player, useless upfield when he gets the ball, can't get it to team mates.

Edited August 25, 2009 by dee-luded

[Mousey 47]

I agree with you. As I said his pace and athletic ability (I saw him lead about 40m flat out from the first step and mark the ball at his toes) are the difficult traits you cannot teach however I think by putting a GPS on him and a couple of AFL pre seasons then you can sort out his work ethic pretty quickly. I also like the thought of big vic country lads making it as KP forwards. With his pace and strong hands even just playing in an open 50m he could be very very dangerous. Another positive is that he is already a fairly big boy and I don't think it will take him too long to bulk up and come on in that sense.

Agree with you too mate.

Like ive said i think the Draft Camp will be very telling and could change a few people minds again.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

it will be the biggest mistake taking butcher he cant kick that's the most important thing in footy, just look at miller he can run all day is a strong mark but when he gets it cant do anything with it. he cant kick if you cant kick, then you cant play the moden game db picks players that are good kicks so hopefully he sticks with the way he picks them

[Clanger King 9]

it will be the biggest mistake taking butcher he cant kick that's the most important thing in footy, just look at miller he can run all day is a strong mark but when he gets it cant do anything with it. he cant kick if you cant kick, then you cant play the moden game db picks players that are good kicks so hopefully he sticks with the way he picks them

I agree hes lazy injury prone has a shocking attitude and wasn't even All Australian in 2008 and ppl were drooling that he was going to be no.2. Please have a look at this years stats and video and Trengove has it all over him. Answer this question what full backs are there in the TAC Cup that are 194cm+ very few. Having played in the competition coaches dont like to put 194cm+ down back, they like to put them in places where they can be damaging. So he is playing on undersized full backs week in week out. We can get a quality tall with pick 18.

[DEES 0]

Agree with the butcher talk as well, sure he has the talent to make it, but if we did pick him up, i could see him going down the brett deledio path. He just doesn't work hard enough, and that kind of behaviour is something we cannot accept when we want to rise to the top.

[Clanger King 9]

Agree with the butcher talk as well, sure he has the talent to make it, but if we did pick him up, i could see him going down the brett deledio path. He just doesn't work hard enough, and that kind of behaviour is something we cannot accept when we want to rise to the top.

Brett Deledio is 20 times the player Butcher was and will be. I See him more of the Polak Leigh Brown mould traded at the age of 22.

[DEES 0]

Brett Deledio is 20 times the player Butcher was and will be. I See him more of the Polak Leigh Brown mould traded at the age of 22.

i wasn't comparing deledio's talent with butcher, it's obvious that deledio is clearly better than butcher. I was referring to the work rate of the players, when the going gets tough for deledio, e.g. when he gets tagged, he doesnt work hard enough to break the tag, and i see butcher following the same path.

i agree with your polak / brown call as well, i posted this elsewhere with my rating of this years top draftees with the 2001 draft.

#1 hodge

#2 ball

#3 judd

#4 polak

i consider scully = judd , trengove = hodge, and butcher = polak

[Tatu 416]

Butcher really is a long term project, he will be a afl star in a few years time.

If MFC want things to happen faster then they will take Trengove, if there looking long term then it's Butcher.

The Butcher, Watts & Jurrah show would be great to see in a few years time. But so would the Trengove, Mclean & Scully show.

Lots of people on here got turn off Butcher, when he made comments about tanking. That he wouldn't like to go to a side that tank for him. Just after that people on here started to promote Trengove.

Both are worthy top five picks.

Whoever MFC pick will put pressure on our current players, for there positions on the list.

Trengove will pressure Mclean, Jones & Moloney.

Butcher will pressure Miller, Newton & Bate.

Personally i think that it would be good to have Watts & Butcher, both learning AFL together.

I'd take Butcher

Edited August 26, 2009 by tatu

[Disco Demons 92]

if butcher has a strong draft camp he might end up at melbourne...i think that was one of the things that really helped jack watts get number 1...he performed pretty well at draft camp...otherwise at this stage it's looking like Trengove.

[drdrake 3,187]

When deciding on what player we need you have to look at what players we already have. We have 3 midfielders that we have seen either nothing of or very little in Maric, Blease and Strauss, Jetta will be a midfielder along with Grimes in due course. We pick up Scully and our midfield is starting to look good, our forward line we have Watts and Jurrah as key forwards, we need another one. You will still get a reasonable midfielder with pick 18, any good key forward will be gone.

Is Butcher the best key forward in the draft I have no idea, but pick 2 should be for the best key forward in the draft.

[Gorgoroth 13,017]

I hope we take Scully and Trengrove.

[Mousey 47]

When deciding on what player we need you have to look at what players we already have. We have 3 midfielders that we have seen either nothing of or very little in Maric, Blease and Strauss, Jetta will be a midfielder along with Grimes in due course. We pick up Scully and our midfield is starting to look good, our forward line we have Watts and Jurrah as key forwards, we need another one. You will still get a reasonable midfielder with pick 18, any good key forward will be gone.

Is Butcher the best key forward in the draft I have no idea, but pick 2 should be for the best key forward in the draft.

You make a good point about the decision making by taking into account of what we already have mate.

Everyone seems to be going along the lines of picking the best available at two no matter the position.

The fact of the matter is we have so many players that are capable of playing midfield that were drafted as midfielders but have not been able to get on the park yet, but when drafted was with the thinking they would be long term prospects- Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Bennell, Bail, Valenti add to that Jones, Brock, Sylvia, Moloney, Davey, Dunn, Ricky Petterd, then to add to that Morton, Grimes, Buckley and Maric who i feel will turn into a midfielder. Even McKenzie has shown a bit. Add Scully and i think our mid stocks are very high!

We all know the upcoming drafts after this one are seriously compromised... This year the KPP are thin as from reports and teams will struggle to draft the highly fancied KPP in the upcoming years with the Gold Coast and West Sydney most likely to pick them up, i just think it is our last time we get to add another highly fancied KPP for many years so why not do it.

[H_T 3,049]

if butcher has a strong draft camp he might end up at melbourne...i think that was one of the things that really helped jack watts get number 1...he performed pretty well at draft camp...otherwise at this stage it's looking like Trengove.

Perhaps the *new* module on kicking at Draft Camp will have a say in proceedings. *Both feet*

[Clanger King 9]

I hope we take Scully and Trengrove.

Agree, i dont know why melb would want someoene that "might" be a good player. Some ppl think that Trengove is closing the gap on the number 1 pick so in other words we could have 2 players equally as good as each other at number 1 or have scully and a player that might come good in 5years.

Take the best 2 kids in the land!!!

[Mousey 47]

Agree, i dont know why melb would want someoene that "might" be a good player. Some ppl think that Trengove is closing the gap on the number 1 pick so in other words we could have 2 players equally as good as each other at number 1 or have scully and a player that might come good in 5years.

Take the best 2 kids in the land!!!

Thats the thing..NOONE knows how the careers of all the draftees will pan out... you pick on talent AND potential.

If we went along the thinking you just posted last year, we would of surely had to pick Daniel Rich or Ziebell over Jack Watts, true?

Do you believe we made the right decision about Jack Watts?

Im not disregarding Trengove being out pick at number 2, but i am saying people should have a more open mind to these things..its very one eyed at the moment and seems like if we did pick Butcher people would be slitting wrists! I believe the club and recruitment staff are in the best position to analyse who to bring in to the club come draft time.

[Clanger King 9]

Thats the thing..NOONE knows how the careers of all the draftees will pan out... you pick on talent AND potential.

If we went along the thinking you just posted last year, we would of surely had to pick Daniel Rich or Ziebell over Jack Watts, true?

Do you believe we made the right decision about Jack Watts?

Im not disregarding Trengove being out pick at number 2, but i am saying people should have a more open mind to these things..its very one eyed at the moment and seems like if we did pick Butcher people would be slitting wrists! I believe the club and recruitment staff are in the best position to analyse who to bring in to the club come draft time.

Watts actually showed something in the carnival and has attributes of a future AFL player not a 90's style pack marking Full Forward with a shotty kick. Days of Matthew Lloyd and Brendan Fevola are over. I just have visions of us trading him off for nothing as a 22yr old or worse cant get on the park cause hes always injured.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Clanger King

[Wolfmother 182]

MFC recuited by position last year for a promising player who was not the best in the land.

Watts will be a gun but was not the best in the game as Rich or Nicnat could equally have those two spots.

Although Jurrah is a great find he is not the answer to our problems like most are making out. I would desprately love trengove but think Butcher is the better opinion and it depends on how the football department and DB want our game plan to be. If we are going for a West Coast/Geelong style when they won the flag on the back of their midfield 'cousins or judd' and 'Ablett or Selwood' or Sydney/Hawthorn which is more on there forwards in Hall/ Micky O and Buddy/Roughhead.

Our forward structure is quiet poor and Jurrah isn't a FF and neither is Watts (he will either play like Riewoldt but mostly likely like a Hird/Goodes). If we don't go for Butcher we will structure our forward line like Western (not a bad thing) but I think we would be stupid not to get a big FF who people forget is still rated anywhere between 2 and 5 in the draft and we still get the best kids in the country.