THE LIST

[H_T 3,043]

BACKS:-

Grimes

Warnock

Rivers

Frawley

Martin*

Bennell

Others: -

Garland*, Whelan, Wheatley

Bell, Cheney, McNamara, Strauss

CENTRES: -

Sylvia*

Moloney

Morton*

Davey*, Green*, Bruce*, Bail, Valenti(N), Dunn*, McKenzie#, Blease, McDonald, Bartram, Buckley, Healey#

FORWARDS: -

Watts

Miller

Wonaeamirri

Robertson

Bate

Maric

Others: -

Jurrah, Jetta, Newton, Petterd, Hughes#, Zomer#

FOLLOWERS/RUCKS: -

Jamar

McLean

Jones

Spencer (N), Meesen, Johnson

* - Can also go Forward

# - Rookie

N - Nominated rookie

Here is an example only of what might happen at the end of year - based purely on speculative and collective thoughts from posters over the last couple of weeks on Demonland (including finishing bottom with less than 4 wins). I must emphasise these are not my thoughts. For example, I think Rivers is required, others may beg to differ, so too PJ. Just thought I would offer a 'balanced' view (ie not my view): - below is 8 changes to the list (not including rookie changes).

OUTS: -

Retire – McDonald, Roberston, Whelan

Trade – Rivers, Wheatley

Delist – Johnson, Bell, Newton(?)

? - on last chance..

INS: -

Draft Picks 1,2,18,34,50,66 PSD #1

Trade - Pick for Rivers (perhaps a second round pick?)

ROOKIES: - ??? OUT: Zomer, Valenti

ELEVATE: Spencer.

Note: Draft pick numbers are based on all other sides finishing with 5 or more wins...

[Pello 1]

Agree Rivers should stay as too should PJ. If he gets his disposal on target he will be a valuable asset as he gets the ball so often for a ruckman and he is useful back up ruckman and is handy on the forward line.

Players to go in my opinion are:

- McDonald (Retire)

- Wheatley (Retire)

- Bell (Delist)

- Bate (Trade)

- Valenti (Delist)

- Dunn (Trade/Delist)

Bate still has some trade value but it is diminishing all the time. He is hopeless below his knees, has a turning circle bigger than the Queen Mary and constantly pulls out of contests. The opposition are aware of his weaknesses and his form reflects that (except for a few moments when he finds some space and Davey makes him look good).

The rest of the selections speak for themselves and 6 draft choices should be sufficient. No point in taking selection 66 in what is considered a shallow draft. In fact even 50 may not be worth taking but rather promote a rookie.

[e25 5]

OUTS: -

Retire – McDonald, Roberston, Whelan

Trade – Rivers, Wheatley

Delist – Johnson, Bell, Newton(?)

? - on last chance..

INS: -

Draft Picks 1,2,18,34,50,66 PSD #1

Trade - Pick for Rivers (perhaps a second round pick?)

ROOKIES: - ??? OUT: Zomer, Valenti

I'd rather not trade Rivers -- I like having an older head down in the backline.

We need to realise as supporters that draft picks don't automatically equal quality players -> Rivers is a quality player.

We'd be taking a gamble to try to acquire what we already have, no?

I don't see any team being interested in a trade for Wheatley unless it involves us giving up the number 1 draft pick.

Newton still has a year left on his contract from most reports.

Valenti should be on his last legs, but I expect the club to retain him due to next years weakened draft and the fact most teams will be trawling the VFL for players of less than his calibre.

I think this depends on Spencer too, because my understanding is that he needs to be elevated to be kept.

Zomer is done.

Hughes is done.

McKenzie will be retained.

I expect McDonald and Whelan to retire.

Could possibly get something for Daniel Bell on the trade table at the end of this year considering the market climate.

Paul Johnson & Robertson are on thin ice with an indian summer coming.

[sylvinator 96]

Out:

Retired: Whelan, Wheatley, McDonald and Robertson

Delist: Bell

Possible Delists (1 or 2 of these to delist)- Newton, Bartram, Valenti (upgraded rookie)

6 places- pick 1, 2, 18, 34, 50, PSD pick 1

Although this is a hard decision, I would seriously consider putting Rivers on the trade table.

He would have huge currency being a 25 yr old (relatively young but in prime age being fully developed) past Rising Star who could slot into a key defensive post for any team struggling with this position. Teams like Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and even Geelong could possibly trade a late first round pick for him. All would be desperate for a good KP defender would can slot straight in and do well.

I don't think Rivers is the player he used to be bc of injuries- and we have Garland, Martin, Frawley, Warnock (plus possibly McNamara) who are all equal or better players than Rivers.

However, I am very cautious to rip our defence apart. we are finnally developing a good young defence, and I don't think we should sacrifise our one strength by putting Garland to Forward line and Rivers traded. If Rivers is traded, we should DEFINITELY keep Garland and Martin as super defenders and we should try to develop a forward line through Watts, Jurrah, Miller, Wona and possibly Butcher.

Pick 14-18 for Rivers would be a good trade imo.

[e25 5]

Pick 14-18 for Rivers would be a good trade imo.

If it was pick 14-18 in last year's draft, then maybe.

Not this year if you ask me.

[Roost It 1,434]

Out:

Retired: Whelan, Wheatley, McDonald and Robertson

Delist: Bell

Possible Delists (1 or 2 of these to delist)- Newton, Bartram, Valenti (upgraded rookie)

6 places- pick 1, 2, 18, 34, 50, PSD pick 1

Although this is a hard decision, I would seriously consider putting Rivers on the trade table.

He would have huge currency being a 25 yr old (relatively young but in prime age being fully developed) past Rising Star who could slot into a key defensive post for any team struggling with this position. Teams like Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and even Geelong could possibly trade a late first round pick for him. All would be desperate for a good KP defender would can slot straight in and do well.

I don't think Rivers is the player he used to be bc of injuries- and we have Garland, Martin, Frawley, Warnock (plus possibly McNamara) who are all equal or better players than Rivers.

However, I am very cautious to rip our defence apart. we are finnally developing a good young defence, and I don't think we should sacrifise our one strength by putting Garland to Forward line and Rivers traded. If Rivers is traded, we should DEFINITELY keep Garland and Martin as super defenders and we should try to develop a forward line through Watts, Jurrah, Miller, Wona and possibly Butcher.

Pick 14-18 for Rivers would be a good trade imo.

Yet you believe a team like Geelong or Hawthorn would give up a first round pick for him in the last semi legitimate draft for several years. Rivers would get us about pick 30 - 35 if we were very lucky. He'll stay a Demon

[Freak 100]

pick 1 and 3..not pick 1 and 2. west coast will get the priority too

[deeflog 679]

OUTS: -

Retire – McDonald, Roberston, Whelan

Trade – Rivers, Wheatley

Delist – Johnson, Bell, Newton(?)

? - on last chance..

INS: -

Draft Picks 1,2,18,34,50,66 PSD #1

Trade - Pick for Rivers (perhaps a second round pick?)

ROOKIES: - ??? OUT: Zomer, Valenti

I agree with the retirements. There is no way we will trade Rivers, with the retirement of Wheels that young back line will need a wise,mature head, and he will be it.

Can't see us getting much for Wheats, retirement.

Not sure who the people are saying delist PJ, but they must all see something in Spencer that i have not seen yet, sure he is a big boy, aggressive, but is a long way off holding down a spot on a AFL team, and Newton is still contracted for next season, so the only way we could get rid of him is via a trade.

Valenti will be kept, not a great draft coming up and a handy back up for a big injury list

[Adelaide Demon 0]

Yet you believe a team like Geelong or Hawthorn would give up a first round pick for him in the last semi legitimate draft for several years. Rivers would get us about pick 30 - 35 if we were very lucky. He'll stay a Demon

Correct. Rivers will not command a first-round pick, absolutely no way, particularly this year. And getting a pick below 20 or 25 for him would not be worth considering. He should stay, and he will stay. We are much better off having him than getting less than his value in an 18-year-old who may never be as good as Jared. His age and experience is valuable in the backline and he should have a prominent role in the development of our core group of backmen who will hopefully become the base for our push for a flag in four or five years.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Geez if we got a pick better than 25 for Rivers we should seriously looked at it. We wont. He is limited and with his medico history we would not get a price for him that would warranted. His 2004 Rising Star is not worth a zac in the trade market. His lack of pace is exposed by the quickness of the game since then.

And someone wanted to trade Wheatley. 28, cant get a game in a clear bottom club...what will it be 5th or 6th round pick??

Retirements: Three of (preferably 4) Junior, Whelan, Wheatley and Robbo.

Delists: Three out of Bell, Buckley, PJ, McNamara, Bartram. If Newton was not contracted for 2010 then I agree he would be delisted on current form. Unfortunately I cant see an early pay out as I dont see him as a culture scourge like Carroll.

Trades: Doubt it. No surplus players that would have trade value at another Club.

Rookies: Spencer (Elevate), All other rookies delist

If we finish last in 2009 with less than 4.5 wins and assuming no other priorty picks then we get picks 1,2, 18,34, 50 and PSD 1.

Edit: Oops! Should be 2009 not 2010.

[Pello 1]

If we finish last in 2010 with less than 4.5 wins and assuming no other priorty picks then we get picks 1,2, 18,34, 50 and PSD 1

If we finish last in 2010 DB may hold a new VFL/AFL record of only coaching for three seasons with consecutive wooden spoons!

[Roost It 1,434]

If we finish last in 2010 DB may hold a new VFL/AFL record of only coaching for three seasons with consecutive wooden spoons!

He's talking 09

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

OUTS:

Retire – McDonald, Roberston

Trade – None

Delist – Bartram, Dunn, McNamara, Bell, Wheatley

INS:

Draft Picks - 1,2,18,34,50

Trade - None

ROOKIES:

Out - Zomer, Healey, Hughes

Elevate - Valenti, Spencer

Remain - McKenzie

NOTE: I'm not sure about contract situation for most players

[Roost It 1,434]

OUTS: JMac, Robertson, Bell, Whelan, Wheatley, Johnson, Buckley, Newton (just pay him out)

Rookie Outs: Valenti, Zomer, Healey

Elevate: Spencer, Mckenzie

Picks 1,2,18,34,50 Pre season: 1

[dee-luded 2,959]

OUTS: JMac, Robertson, Bell, Whelan, Wheatley, Johnson, Buckley, Newton (just pay him out)

Rookie Outs: Valenti, Zomer, Healey

Elevate: Spencer, Mckenzie

Picks 1,2,18,34,50 Pre season: 1

IMO

OUTS: (JMac, Whelan, Robertson, Bruce)retire, Bell, Wheatley, Johnson, ??????

Rookie Outs: Zomer, Hughes

(Valenti - rookie 3rd year)

ElevateRookie: Spencer, Mckenzie

Picks 1,2,18,34,50 Pre season: 1

[deeflog 679]

WHY are people saying trade PJ??? Jamar is injury prone and Spencer is not up to it yet!! It is the most ridiculous thought expressed on this forum this year

[rpfc 28,294]

I believe Valenti has to be elevated or he goes back into the draft. Max 2 year on RL at a time.

Spencer, I believe will be given another year on the RL.

At this early stage Whelan, Wheatley, Robertson, Junior, Dunn, and Bell face an uphill battle to get another contract. Some have said Dunn is contracted for 2010, but I have no info I can trust on that. McNamara looks good but has to get on the park soon to make sure of a contract.

I tend to look at the situation in terms of who we would like to get onto the list - Pick 1, 3, 20 and 36 should find a suitable target available for Prendergast. However, Pick 52 would be scraping the barrel in a thin year due to age availability modifications. Valenti might get a look in.

Estimates at this stage - IN: 1, 3, 20, 36, and Valenti - OUT: Wheatley, Dunn, Bell, and two of Whelan, Robertson, and Junior.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

This is going to be a very hard decision for our list managers come September.

However, it is time for you all to settle down and realise that due to the GC the value of underperforming the competition in terms of draft picks is greatly reduced after this year. This ridicules thing of being better off not winning will not be the case next year. We must look to win, we must play our best team. There is no point in delisting/trading players that are in our best 22. We are young enough and lacking experience. Just because a good, old player has disappointed you in a game or during the season does not mean they should be delisted if they are clearly in our best 22.

In my view:

Robertson: Should not be delisted or traded. Robo has come back from a very serious injury, he has had no preseason, and limited lead up game time, yet he has shown he can still beat the best defenders (Scarlett) in the competition with terrible delivery and limited supply. He will be much better with a preseason under his belt. His game last week was poor but he also had very poor, limited supply and he was far from the only one to under perform. He also takes the number one defender. He still has the ability and assuming he has the desire he should be given a new 2 year contract. He will be very useful as the 3rd medium/tall in the new forward line. His experience in the new forward line will be also very valuable. You will be surprised how good Robo will be without the best defender on him and some other capable players around him. I know he will probably not be there for our next tilt, however, there is no value in losing games after this season. We must start winning games again and Robo is still very much in our best forward line.

Rivers: Should not be traded: Rivers has been one of the good news stories of the season. You must remember that he has spent the last 3 or is it 4 seasons out due to injury, thats alot of football to miss. He has had massive injury problems and worked extremely hard to get back. He should be rewarded for this. If he is over his groin problems and can play out the season, he will then go into a full pre-season, start to gain confidence in his body and come back as a far better player next season. Our backline always looks better when he is playing. He is in our best 22 he is 25yo and if he remains injury free will only get better and faster. The idea of trading him for a 3rd round pick (we will not do better) is nothing short of stupidity, especially considering our back line is our only strength.

Instead I would look to delist/retire from the following list:

McDonald

Wheatley

Bell ?????

Whelan ?????

Bartram ?????

Valenti (not big enough and not fast enough for AFL)

Zomer (at the bottom of the list, playing Casey 2nds)

Hughes (at the bottom of the list, playing Casey 2nds)

Newton (pay out his contract unless he learns to kick at better than 70% (set shot) before season ends)

Some hard decisions will need to be made.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

WHY are people saying trade PJ??? Jamar is injury prone and Spencer is not up to it yet!! It is the most ridiculous thought expressed on this forum this year

Agree. We would not get a cracker for 200cm rover? FWIW, PJ has been as injury prone as Jamar. It happens to ruckman all too frequent. PJ's future depends on whether Meesen is likely to recover from his serious injury. If Meesen is back then I would delist PJ.

I believe Valenti has to be elevated or he goes back into the draft. Max 2 year on RL at a time.

Spencer, I believe will be given another year on the RL.

At this early stage Whelan, Wheatley, Robertson, Junior, Dunn, and Bell face an uphill battle to get another contract. Some have said Dunn is contracted for 2010, but I have no info I can trust on that. McNamara looks good but has to get on the park soon to make sure of a contract.

I tend to look at the situation in terms of who we would like to get onto the list - Pick 1, 3, 20 and 36 should find a suitable target available for Prendergast. However, Pick 52 would be scraping the barrel in a thin year due to age availability modifications. Valenti might get a look in.

Estimates at this stage - IN: 1, 3, 20, 36, and Valenti - OUT: Wheatley, Dunn, Bell, and two of Whelan, Robertson, and Junior.

What about PSD #1? Assuming we finish last

If Valenti does not get a run at AFL level and does reflect a higher standard of play than he has shown then he is gone at year end. There is no compulsion to elevate Valenti on what we have seen to date or because his RL contract has expired. They could re-rookie him but I doubt they would.

[titan_uranus 24,984]

Delist: Bell, Dunn, Buckley

Retire (or delist if they don't retire first): Whelan, Wheatley, McDonald, Robertson

Need to see more of: McNamara (it would be unfair to delist him without first playing him, and I think he might surprise a few when he does get his chance)

Rookies: Elevate Spencer, keep McKenzie, the rest are delistable

Trade: None (who on our list worth trading would get us a high enough pick?)

Must keep Rivers. His kicking aside, he's not playing as badly as people are saying. We wouldn't get a decent pick (i.e. 30 or better) for him if we offered him up for trade anyway.

[rpfc 28,294]

Agree. We would not get a cracker for 200cm rover? FWIW, PJ has been as injury prone as Jamar. It happens to ruckman all too frequent. PJ's future depends on whether Meesen is likely to recover from his serious injury. If Meesen is back then I would delist PJ.

What about PSD #1? Assuming we finish last

If Valenti does not get a run at AFL level and does reflect a higher standard of play than he has shown then he is gone at year end. There is no compulsion to elevate Valenti on what we have seen to date or because his RL contract has expired. They could re-rookie him but I doubt they would.

The rules are two years at a time for Rookies, and he may be too old to be re-rookied. We disagree on this but, IF the club wants him they are going to have to elevate him at the end of this year or he goes back into the draft pool.

Valenti, IMO, would be in place of the PSD pick but if we go into the PSD, I believe there will be 6 deletions.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The rules are two years at a time for Rookies, and he may be too old to be re-rookied. We disagree on this but, IF the club wants him they are going to have to elevate him at the end of this year or he goes back into the draft pool.

Valenti, IMO, would be in place of the PSD pick but if we go into the PSD, I believe there will be 6 deletions.

You are probably right.

However if Valenti is not selected in the next 11 games or if he is selected and does not fire at AFL then he is gone.

Given we have got Martin and Jurrah with PSD #1 then Valenti would not be a successful use of that token. I was hoping if we had PSD #1 we might have pick up a bargain somehow through Prendergast's wisdom or a quality fallout from another Club.

[sylvinator 96]

PSD pick1= Shaun Burgoyne!!! He is refusing to sign with PortAdelaide.

Port have a history of sending players who abandon the club to the PSD (Nick Stevens) and considering the prime importance of draft picks in this years draft (future drafts raped by GC17 and WestSyd) noone will be willing to give up a first round pick for Shaun which is what he is worth.

Plus, MFC are finally in a position to pick up a big PSD pick with top quality training base at Casey over the summer and Olympic park preccinct by next year.

Imagine the diversity and excitement of this midfield:

- Shaun Burgoyne (all round ability, huge pace and sublime skills)

- Aaron Davey (huge pace and sublime skills)

- Tom Scully (all round package, inside and outside)

- Cale Morton (running machine, accumulator of possessions, when he bulks up will become a physical presence)

- Brock Mclean (workhorse, inside player, will be awesome as the 5th best midfielder, instead of copping a tag)

- Nathan Jones (workhorse, inside player, great agression and endeavour)

- Brent Moloney (long-kicking, physical, accumulator)

- Sam Blease (pure pace and kicking skills)

Green, Bruce, Strauss, Sylvia, Grimes, Buckley and Pettard to filter through the midfield, but maily players on the flanks.

It's amazing what 2 or 3 quality additions can make to a crap midfield. Mclean and Jones suddenly become the 4th and 5th best midfielders, don't get as much attention and then they become better players for it. Just see the Brissy's fab4's effect on players like Headland and WCE's fab4 had on Embly etc.

Bring it on!

[H_T 3,043]

PSD pick1= Shaun Burgoyne!!! He is refusing to sign with PortAdelaide.

Port have a history of sending players who abandon the club to the PSD (Nick Stevens) and considering the prime importance of draft picks in this years draft (future drafts raped by GC17 and WestSyd) noone will be willing to give up a first round pick for Shaun which is what he is worth.

Plus, MFC are finally in a position to pick up a big PSD pick with top quality training base at Casey over the summer and Olympic park preccinct by next year.

Imagine the diversity and excitement of this midfield:

- Shaun Burgoyne (all round ability, huge pace and sublime skills)

- Aaron Davey (huge pace and sublime skills)

- Tom Scully (all round package, inside and outside)

- Cale Morton (running machine, accumulator of possessions, when he bulks up will become a physical presence)

- Brock Mclean (workhorse, inside player, will be awesome as the 5th best midfielder, instead of copping a tag)

- Nathan Jones (workhorse, inside player, great agression and endeavour)

- Brent Moloney (long-kicking, physical, accumulator)

- Sam Blease (pure pace and kicking skills)

Green, Bruce, Strauss, Sylvia, Grimes, Buckley and Pettard to filter through the midfield, but maily players on the flanks.

It's amazing what 2 or 3 quality additions can make to a crap midfield. Mclean and Jones suddenly become the 4th and 5th best midfielders, don't get as much attention and then they become better players for it. Just see the Brissy's fab4's effect on players like Headland and WCE's fab4 had on Embly etc.

Bring it on!

If Shaun Burgoyne goes into the PSD and Melbourne picks him up, you're all getting a Christmas gift from me! Highly unlikely.

You've got to ask yourself why is he putting it off? There's probably a million reasons, or one reason......Mark Williams or he wants to move clubs, or a much better deal.

Shaun Burgoyne

#8 Port Adelaide Power

Age: 26yr 7mth Games: 151 Born: October 21, 1982

Height: 185cm Weight: 88kg Position: Midfield

Last Drafted: Round 1, Pick #12 2000 National Draft

Last Drafted By: Port Adelaide Power

*Footywire

PS. Granted, he has got the run & carry in him which DB is after.

[titan_uranus 24,984]

PSD pick1= Shaun Burgoyne!!! He is refusing to sign with PortAdelaide.

If he hasn't signed a contract yet it's probably because he's trying to get something he hasn't got yet (change in length, more money etc.). Not because he wants to leave.

If he did enter the PSD, I wouldn't be unhappy if Melbourne picked him up.