Round 6 changes

[e25 5]

He got 42 in the rain yesterday against the Lion's midfield... and they were tagging him.

At the end of the day we ain't got a single player who could match Ablett and effectively shut him down. Obviously you have to man him up, especially at the bounces, but whether someone focuses solely on shutting him down, or whether we play Aaron Davey on him (at least he'll reward us going the other way, and he can match him for pace), he will still get 40 possessions and rip us a new one.

Having said that, they'll probably chuck Bruce on him, and not only will he rip us apart, Bruce will manage to turn the ball over when he does beat him.

Should be an awesome game!

You don't tag Ablett, you take away his options of who to give it to.

Man on man. Chances are we'll lose comprehensively anyway. Might as well do it trying to win.

[Guest petjud]

He looks tired.

I think he will be a great player, but he's played 5 consecutive games at AFL level and I think that might have taken a lot of energy out of him.

That is my whole point he runs himself into the ground every game, that is why Bailey picks him, if some of the 'senior' players followed his example, I watch the no names....yesterday Bartam did his job AGAIN....Jetta linked well WHEN HE GOT THE CHANCE.........Warnock did everything with a minimum of fuss..........I am in agreement that Maric probably deserves a chance but he is about the same height and weight as Jetta, and if the service into the forward line is the same where is the difference........I keep stressing that if Bailey was confident in his (Maric's) defensive capabilities he would have been in two games agao.....he will be there as a defensive pressure small crumbing forward, if there is nothing to crumb!!!!....Jetta's problem as well at the moment.....

[titan_uranus 25,016]

Shutting down the game to the point where our midfield is concerned purely about the oppositions' players, and our forwards push up the ground to try and cover our mids, only for us to rebound back to nothing, will not make us win. We're going to lose either way, so at least lets make it a contest about who can win the ball and use it effectively. Obviously if it's quarter time and we're 20 goals down, shut down mode will be well and truly applied.

I agree. Attempting to tag Ablett won't work. I'd rather us work on the other midfielders, and hope that he has a bad week.

[Demons 32 235]

What?

Jetta looks tired to me. It's not like he's dominating anyway. Give him a rest.

Yeah he looks it to you, he might even look it to me...

But bottom line is both you and I have no idea if he really is.

If he truly is to tired to play footy the selection panel will leave him out. But because none of us know if he really is tired that can't be reason to drop him. All 22 players are probably tired. But what has Jetta actually done wrong to be dropped.

[dee-luded 2,959]

all i want to see is Y_M banned from this forum for being an irrational [censored]

Well, lets ban the whole board then.

We all fit that category, time to time.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Easy.

Bartram continually turns the ball over by foot. Most opposition goals are scored through turnover. He also doesn't take the game on enough.

Jetta is still learning his craft, but has not demonstrated an ability to be front and square and read off the packs, and his miss from straight in front in the last quarter against Adelaide was terrible.

You can add to the fact that the players who are to come in for them (Maric and Grimes) have far more upside and natural ability, class and poise. Don't get me wrong, I like Jetta but I think a run down at Casey wouldn't hurt.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.....

In summation, please don't play Dunn or Bruce or Bartram on Ablett. Thanks.

*Rattle* *Rattle*

If Ablett does not have a tag he will amass 50 to 60 possessions and kill us on his own. And remember one Ablett possession is more painful than a couple of MFC possessions.

Putting Davey on him as tag is pure dumb. Firstly, Davey gets physically outbodied in contested situations and anyone that tags Ablett will expect considerable heat from his teammates. Secondly you want to playing attacking football but you take your most offensive weapon and you place him in a negative role. Bartram, Dunn and Bruce all have playing deficiencies but if they negate some or even most of Ablett's play then they are more value to us than if we were to rely on them having a more direct positive impact on the game. They won't.

If you want to play one on one then MFC players must be wondering where their direct opponent is particularly if its a Selwood or Ablett.

If you want an all out attacking effort (dumber than a total tag which I have not supported) then we will get belted in a shoot out on the ground and on the scoreboard.

MFC are going to have to approach this game as a battle of degrees if we are to make progress and it will be a range of smarter strategies that will work as opposed to your throw your cards in the air and see where they land.

I know you have thrown in the towel for this game but dont shut down all the faculties as well

[Guest petjud]

Easy.

Bartram continually turns the ball over by foot. Most opposition goals are scored through turnover. He also doesn't take the game on enough.

Jetta is still learning his craft, but has not demonstrated an ability to be front and square and read off the packs, and his miss from straight in front in the last quarter against Adelaide was terrible.

He was on the edge of the fifty and there was a swirling wind, it faded at the last moment........gee how dare he miss those!!!!!...what packs???????........that is the problem we have got, we have no tall timber so Bailey is trying not to kick to packs unless a last resort and Jetta got a goal last week from a crumb off the pack......he has kicked three goals in five games...off nothing..........with a bit of luck he may get 20 for the season.......

Bartram is a TAGGER........and a bloody good one, the modern game needs his type of player, with his cirucmstances yesterday he did his job AGAIN

[H_T 3,046]

Who to put on Ablett then?

Bartram?

Dunn?

McDonald?

Bennell?

Moloney?

Bruce?

......all of the above?

[JJJ 1,281]

That is my whole point he runs himself into the ground every game, that is why Bailey picks him, if some of the 'senior' players followed his example, I watch the no names...

He must "run himself into the ground" early and often as he looked like he was running on the spot from the 1st bounce. I don't think his defensive work is even average by todays standards, he is too slow and doesn't get to the right areas at this stage in his career. You do realise he is the bloke wearing 39 right?

[Guest petjud]

You can add to the fact that the players who are to come in for them (Maric and Grimes) have far more upside and natural ability, class and poise. Don't get me wrong, I like Jetta but I think a run down at Casey wouldn't hurt.

All for big noting Maric, and yes he has been doing well at Casey, but have we seen his defensive work and how many goals has he kicked in the AFL, give him a go interchanging with Jetta and let's see what we get, let's not cut off our nose to spite our face

[Jaded No More 68,915]

*Rattle* *Rattle*

If Ablett does not have a tag he will amass 50 to 60 possessions and kill us on his own. And remember one Ablett possession is more painful than a couple of MFC possessions.

Putting Davey on him as tag is pure dumb. Firstly, Davey gets physically outbodied in contested situations and anyone that tags Ablett will expect considerable heat from his teammates. Secondly you want to playing attacking football but you take your most offensive weapon and you place him in a negative role. Bartram, Dunn and Bruce all have playing deficiencies but if they negate some or even most of Ablett's play then they are more value to us than if we were to rely on them having a more direct positive impact on the game. They won't.

First of all, I would drop Bartram and play Dunn as a forward (dropping Bate and Newton and bringing in Maric and Robbo), so that argument is moot.

Secondly, I don't see Bartram, Dunn or Bruce being able to stick with Ablett, so we might as well play an attacking player on him. The Davey example will give Davey freedom the other way. It means they won't try to shut him down, which is a win for us.

Whether Ablett gets 30 or 40 possessions will matter little in the grand scheme given that he will hurt us regardless, and so will his other mates.

I am not advocating a shoot out. Again, we will most likely play an extra man behind the ball (which I think we should), and if Davey happens to be that man, and he's on Ablett, then all of a sudden he can drive the ball down to our attacking end and make Ablett a little accountable too. If we manage to drag Ablett away from the middle, that's even better (although I doubt it'll happen).

We saw yesterday that when we create one-on-ones all over the ground, we force a contest. That's 50% more chance of winning the ball (and inevitably turning it over ).

You're right, I have conceeded this match, but I want to go on Sunday and at least see us compete one on one. I want to see how our players measure up, I don't want to see a 21 men rolling-zone. The end result will be the same, but the benefit of playing alongside Geelong (as opposed to behind them), will be much greater.

[Guest petjud]

He must "run himself into the ground" early and often as he looked like he was running on the spot from the 1st bounce. I don't think his defensive work is even average by todays standards, he is too slow and doesn't get to the right areas at this stage in his career. You do realise he is the bloke wearing 39 right?

Yes he was the guy who had sprinted 75 metres to take the guy over the touchline near the interchange, and the same guy who who hung on for grim death and got holding the ball against a Crow....you want all your indigenous players to run like the wind, turn on a sixpence and kick six goals in the first six minutes....like the Whitefella they are not all the same.........as I said we were spoilt by Wonna last season and we expect every young indigenous kid to be exactly the same....they are NOT........he also has picked up the zoning better..you don't rush straight at a player you herd in him..........gee I give up on you blokes............two of the real workers in the side in Bartram and Jetta and you are all for getting rid of them every week........yeah bring on a team of Sylvia's....we will look good and flashy and get smashed every week

[H_T 3,046]

You're right, I have conceeded this match, but I want to go on Sunday and at least see us compete one on one. I want to see how our players measure up, I don't want to see a 21 men rolling-zone. The end result will be the same, but the benefit of playing alongside Geelong (as opposed to behind them), will be much greater.

Personally, I'd like to see them go head to head with Geelong man on man as well. I wouldn't mind a tag on Ablett. Truth is, no-one has been successful on him of late, he's so hard to match up on. I'd like to see Sylvia been given a go on Ablett. He has played on him before. He will get towelled up I'm guessing, but will give him another insight into the life of a great footballer and how hard he works. Steep learning curve.

[beelzebub 23,368]

The simple reality is the that Son of God is quite a few levels above most of our team. The notion that we can effectively minimalise him ( GA ) by application of a single tagger will be frought with diabolical repercussions. A rotation of players.. McDonald, Bruce, Bartram will be needed to contain him ( GA) to only a good game . The roll on effect of an unrestricted Ablett just doesnt bear thinking about.

[beelzebub 23,368]

p.s at times he may need to be double teamed

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

First of all, I would drop Bartram and play Dunn as a forward (dropping Bate and Newton and bringing in Maric and Robbo), so that argument is moot.

Secondly, I don't see Bartram, Dunn or Bruce being able to stick with Ablett, so we might as well play an attacking player on him. The Davey example will give Davey freedom the other way. It means they won't try to shut him down, which is a win for us.

Whether Ablett gets 30 or 40 possessions will matter little in the grand scheme given that he will hurt us regardless, and so will his other mates.

I am not advocating a shoot out. Again, we will most likely play an extra man behind the ball (which I think we should), and if Davey happens to be that man, and he's on Ablett, then all of a sudden he can drive the ball down to our attacking end and make Ablett a little accountable too. If we manage to drag Ablett away from the middle, that's even better (although I doubt it'll happen).

We saw yesterday that when we create one-on-ones all over the ground, we force a contest. That's 50% more chance of winning the ball (and inevitably turning it over ).

You're right, I have conceeded this match, but I want to go on Sunday and at least see us compete one on one. I want to see how our players measure up, I don't want to see a 21 men rolling-zone. The end result will be the same, but the benefit of playing alongside Geelong (as opposed to behind them), will be much greater.

Like I said tagging Ablett is going to be a hard, physical encounter. Davey is not your man. If Davey is closing down Ablett he is not attacking the way he does.

Every Ablett effective disposal we nullify is a plus. The more we nullify this the more we potentially benefit. Its very important.

The issue is that MFC must be hard at each and every contest and pressure every Geelong possession.

How do we play a complete one on one if you have a spare player dropping back as you advocate?

[JJJ 1,281]

Yes he was the guy who had sprinted 75 metres to take the guy over the touchline near the interchange, and the same guy who who hung on for grim death and got holding the ball against a Crow....you want all your indigenous players to run like the wind, turn on a sixpence and kick six goals in the first six minutes....like the Whitefella they are not all the same.........as I said we were spoilt by Wonna last season and we expect every young indigenous kid to be exactly the same....they are NOT........he also has picked up the zoning better..you don't rush straight at a player you herd in him..........gee I give up on you blokes............two of the real workers in the side in Bartram and Jetta and you are all for getting rid of them every week........yeah bring on a team of Sylvia's....we will look good and flashy and get smashed every week

Those rose coloured glasses must be comfy. I expect all players to chase and run, he wasn't alone last night. We worked hard but lacked the class and skills to cut up the Adelaide zone. Added to this he had 1 tackle and his shot at goal was around 35-40m out, look at the tape. Top marks for trying but he isnt producing many attempts at goal for himself or others.

I am interested that you mention his heritage. It is irrelevant. The role he plays at the moment is a role he isn't suited to. He isn't a crumbing small forward with great skills and clean hands. nor is he a great forward line pressure player and he looks lost further up the ground but it is an area that may be his only chance to be a useful player. He should work on this at Casey as he can't do it with the Dees yet.

On Wona, we weren't spoilt. He is a far smarter player than Jetta as he can't "run like the wind" or "turn on a sixpence" either. He relies on his ability to be in the right place at the right time and his clean skills.

Bartram is a player in a similar vein to Godfrey. If his decision making and skills don't improve he has to be dropped.

[John Dee 445]

I was just perusing the stats, and as the great Mark Twain said - There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Newton is not credited, or is that debited, with any clangers! I'm sorry, set shots for goal from 5 metres out on not overly oppressive angles from your full forwrd that do not score goals are clangers of the first order!!!

[Roost It 1,434]

Lucky to still be in the game wat a joke.

Hes easily our best forward and can really teach our up and coming forwards a think or two.

Keeping him in will do watts etc good we cant just rely on watts hes to young and in experienced. robbo along side him will help heaps.

His efforts last year were ordinary at best. Take away his junk time goals and you are left with the odd high leap, little to no defensive pressure and a poor example of a "team" player.

The fact that he's our best forward says very little about his talents.

Explain how Robbo will help Watts in any way.

I will say it again. He has no part in our future, he'll be lucky to play any more than 6 games for us this year. Will end up at Casey and retire at year's end.

[CHAMP 347]

This time last year many were questioning Robbo's commitment in the face of his TV singing spot and a greater number were critical of his football (junk time goals, lack of defensive presence etc) and all of a sudden he's become a hero, saviour and panacea to all that ails the Demon forward line. Playing Robbo may marginally aid the scoreboard but he's no part of the future.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This time last year many were questioning Robbo's commitment in the face of his TV singing spot and a greater number were critical of his football (junk time goals, lack of defensive presence etc) and all of a sudden he's become a hero, saviour and panacea to all that ails the Demon forward line. Playing Robbo may marginally aid the scoreboard but he's no part of the future.

Agree. We need to develop other solutions.

[Guest petjud]

Those rose coloured glasses must be comfy. I expect all players to chase and run, he wasn't alone last night. We worked hard but lacked the class and skills to cut up the Adelaide zone. Added to this he had 1 tackle and his shot at goal was around 35-40m out, look at the tape. Top marks for trying but he isnt producing many attempts at goal for himself or others.

I am interested that you mention his heritage. It is irrelevant. The role he plays at the moment is a role he isn't suited to. He isn't a crumbing small forward with great skills and clean hands. nor is he a great forward line pressure player and he looks lost further up the ground but it is an area that may be his only chance to be a useful player. He should work on this at Casey as he can't do it with the Dees yet.

On Wona, we weren't spoilt. He is a far smarter player than Jetta as he can't "run like the wind" or "turn on a sixpence" either. He relies on his ability to be in the right place at the right time and his clean skills.

Bartram is a player in a similar vein to Godfrey. If his decision making and skills don't improve he has to be dropped.

I don't have to look at the tape, I was sitting behind the goal, they are not rose tinted glasses, he is 19yrs old and playing the role the DB wants him to,

if you are at the game, and not watching on Fox, you will see he lines up between the centre square and the fity, and roams across there, not a crumbing forward, he is going to be a midfielder,

if he got some decent kicks that don't go over his head or past him he would get a lot more possessions,

he is scrounging around for them and doing the defensive pressure that Bailey wants

I just get a bit sick of so called footy supporters who if we are not doing well immediately look for a 'new saviour' and after a couple of weeks discard them if they have not lived up to their lofty standards.........in no particular order in the last few weeks we should drop, confine to Casey for the season or euthanase.....Bate, Johnson, Batram, Bell (he did the right thing and got injured) Buckley (ditto), Sylvia,Bruce, Jetta, Jones......and line up the saviours Robbo, Maric, Grimes.....good on those three but two of them have had one or two AFL games and are not going to be the immediate saviours.....I will cheer the loudest if they are...but be realistic....Bailey is the coach and he picks players for a reason.........

I do agree I question a couple of the above continually being picked and then not performing (Sylvia and Johnson in particular) but lets have some realistic, fit and injury free and in form replacements, maybe in a couple of weeks we will have that, until then lets support the players that are out there giving their all

I expected Maric to come in this week but in a rotating role with Jetta, I still think this is what will happen if and when Maric gets picked..........on the half forward line, with Wonna lining up in the pocket.so the forward line will be as in one of my previous posts.......dependent on Wonnna's fitness

[kemp 0]

if newton is dropped, which many clearly hope, i hope he remembers that he was playing afl. back in the vfl (with plenty of hours goalkicking practice) he should star up forward and warrant a spot back in the team with enough confidence for a career at the top level. cmon juice; 16 goals in 3 games at casey and you could have an undeniable place at melbourne for years to come!

oh yeah, and robbo in for him now. no pressure robbo, but watch for some crumbs; theres a lot of forward line flyers now.

hope grimes can adjust to his injuries symptoms soon, he has such great skills.

[Rogue 585]

But the point is that he hasn't kicked 5+ goals in the past 2 games. We cannot continue to persist with a forward like Newton who does not have the ability nor the confidence to be taking set shots from 10 metres out.

We're not playing for the premiership cup next week (or anytime soon). Worst case scenario Newton plays this week and misses a sitter or two - so what? There's little harm done in the grand scheme of things.

I think his kicking is a mental issue and he needs confidence. He's getting shots at goal, which is more than half the battle as a forward, and if he finished them off in the past two weeks I think most would think he was travelling okay.

I will ask a straight question.......

In the last five games exactly what have Jetta and Bartram done wrong?

All answers on the back of a small envelope...........

Bartram's output hasn't been great of late - his disposal certainly lets him down (and I'm not referring to his behind). His disposal isn't as bad as Godfrey's but at the moment I don't think it's good enough to sustain a long and successful career either. Admittedly it sounds like a very tough time for him this year - not just yesterday. However, if he's playing as a tagger you'd have to weigh up his efforts there with his limited output with the ball.

As for Jetta, what's he done so right? From where I sit he isn't quick and hasn't had a major impact at any time I can recall in the past five weeks. It is his first season of AFL footy so this doesn't mean he's a "dud" but it does mean that his position should be up for grabs. With Maric playing very well at Casey over an extended period it's time to give him a run, and Jetta's a like-for-like swap.

lets have some realistic, fit and injury free and in form replacements, maybe in a couple of weeks we will have that, until then lets support the players that are out there giving their all

Like Maric, who has been racking up good games at Casey seemingly at will