If you don't mind Umpire ...

[DubDee 20,566]

I think it was on 360 where they said the last three WC Home games it was around 95 for and 35 against. Blatant cheating!!

people excusing it saying they get intimidated by the crowd? Wtf. Call what you see mate. FFS

[Demonland 64,791]

Just now, biggestred said:

Id love to see that table broken down further with free kicks home and away.

 

+900 is disgusting (esp when the wce fans carry on about it being the opposite away from home)

Breaking down home and away only really works for the interstate teams. It does not work for games we play away in Victoria particularly in this era where there are no crowd advantages at the neutral venues.

[biggestred 4,289]

34 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Breaking down home and away only really works for the interstate teams. It does not work for games we play away in Victoria particularly in this era where there are no crowd advantages at the neutral venues.

Aren't we talking about west coast though? Everyone else seems about right

[Demonland 64,791]

3 minutes ago, biggestred said:

Aren't we talking about west coast though? Everyone else seems about right

If we are just talking West Coast then yes a break down to their Home vs Away differential would be interesting.

[tiers 2,766]

Re: blue colour. Notice that emergency vehicles now all use both red and blue flashing lights both day and night. Red might be the traditional signal for danger but blue is more readily visible by the eye. Check next time you see flashing lights.

Re: number of free kicks. In a game some years ago against WC in Perth the free kick count before half time was in the order of 20 to 2 in favour of WC. Naturally we were beaten badly. I don't recall ever seeing a proper investigation into this glaring imbalance. Perhaps some one can check.

The non-calls are a serious issue as they confirm in supporter' minds the inherent failure of the rules and the implementation of the rules. Too many  obvious free kicks are completely missed but silly little tiggy touch wood frees are paid for no apparent reason, frequently to the wrong team. Ask Maxie.

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

Someone on bigfooty did some digging and had this to say .....

If the same teams tend to get more or fewer free kicks every week, that strongly suggests that the cause is the different game styles or levels of discipline that they apply.

 The much bigger issue is when one team (West Coast) gets a huge free kick advantage but only does so at a particular venue (Optus).

 Specifically, this year in the first 11 games the stats look like this:

 At Optus Stadium:

 Games: 7
 Frees for: 172
 Frees against: 121
 Average West Coast advantage: 7.3 free kicks per game

 At all other venues:

 Games: 4
 Frees for: 73
 Frees against: 83
 Average West Coast advantage: -2.5

 So when playing at home, apparently something mysteriously happens to West Coast's discipline and game plan which means that they deserve an extra 10 free kicks per game compared to when they play away from home.

 It's also interesting to note that West Coast's opponents get significantly fewer free kicks per game (ignoring the differential) at Optus, whereas West Coast gets massively more free kicks per game at Optus. That strongly suggests that line-ball decisions are heavily going West Coast's way at home, and not being paid to their opponents.

 What's more likely - West Coast play radically different footy at different venues, or there is something else affecting the umpiring at Optus...?

[Demonland 64,791]

3 minutes ago, tiers said:

Re: blue colour. Notice that emergency vehicles now all use both red and blue flashing lights both day and night. Red might be the traditional signal for danger but blue is more readily visible by the eye. Check next time you see flashing lights.

Re: number of free kicks. In a game some years ago against WC in Perth the free kick count before half time was in the order of 20 to 2 in favour of WC. Naturally we were beaten badly. I don't recall ever seeing a proper investigation into this glaring imbalance. Perhaps some one can check.

The non-calls are a serious issue as they confirm in supporter' minds the inherent failure of the rules and the implementation of the rules. Too many  obvious free kicks are completely missed but silly little tiggy touch wood frees are paid for no apparent reason, frequently to the wrong team. Ask Maxie.

Interesting re: flashing lights. Non emergency service flashing lights are yellow ie: RACV etc

West Coast - blue and yellow.

Coincidence?

[tiers 2,766]

Game styles and levels of discipline are a cop out and typical Robbo or Eddie dumb comment. Over time these should also converge.

The notion that a game style (first to the ball, in and under etc) makes a difference over 22 players over a season both ludicrous and prepostorous. Think about how many "first to the ball, in and under" players get pinged for holding the ball or incorrect disposal.

The reasons goes much deeper than superficial comments.

[Supermercado 2,611]

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

I like this theory and would like some research done into our free kick differential this year wearing the disco blue jumper vs the traditional kit.

@Supermercado do you have any insight to provide here?

Frees count this year (courtesy of AFL Tables). We are 7-4 up on the free count in total and 238-233 total in front. Not much for disco jumper fanatics:

Positive

Round 1 vs Geelong +9

Round 10 vs AdeLOL +9

Round 3 vs North + 2

Round 5 vs Richmond +2

Round 6 vs Essendon +2

Round 7 vs St Kilda +5

Round 8 vs Gold Coast +2

Most for - Gawn (23), Hogan (20), Fritsch (14), Oliver (13), Jetta (13), Lever (13)

Negative

Round 2 vs Brisbane -9

Round 11 vs Bulldogs -8

Round 9 vs Carlton -6

Round 4 vs Hawthorn -3

Most against - Oliver (17), Harmes (17), Gawn (15), Jones (14), Petracca (11)

Notable differences:

Hogan - 20 for, 6 against

Fritsch - 14 for, 5 against

Jones - 5 for, 14 against

Hunt - 1 for, 10 against

Oscar McSizzle - 2 for, 10 against

[tiers 2,766]

It's obvious we haven't played West Coast yet.

[monoccular 16,052]

On 5/30/2018 at 10:58 PM, Queanbeyan Demon said:

the most meaningful stat imho is were the frees are paid. 

also which frees are missed, though much harder of course to quantify

16 hours ago, Demonland said:

Free kick differential for the past 15 years. 

WCE just over the top.

A further breakdown of home vs away WCE games could be very enlightening. 

6 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

The problem with this theory is that if it were true you would expect Fremantle to be similarly advantaged and instead they are minus 308.  

No .. they get smaller crowds and are probably less vocal and feral than WCE.

 

A further breakdown of the for and against stats by umpire would be of interest - Chamberpot certainly appears to penalise MFC for every possible trivial pursuit.

Edited June 7, 2018 by monoccular

[emblem for me 10]

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Someone on bigfooty did some digging and had this to say .....

If the same teams tend to get more or fewer free kicks every week, that strongly suggests that the cause is the different game styles or levels of discipline that they apply.

 The much bigger issue is when one team (West Coast) gets a huge free kick advantage but only does so at a particular venue (Optus).

 Specifically, this year in the first 11 games the stats look like this:

 At Optus Stadium:

 Games: 7
 Frees for: 172
 Frees against: 121
 Average West Coast advantage: 7.3 free kicks per game

 At all other venues:

 Games: 4
 Frees for: 73
 Frees against: 83
 Average West Coast advantage: -2.5

 So when playing at home, apparently something mysteriously happens to West Coast's discipline and game plan which means that they deserve an extra 10 free kicks per game compared to when they play away from home.

 It's also interesting to note that West Coast's opponents get significantly fewer free kicks per game (ignoring the differential) at Optus, whereas West Coast gets massively more free kicks per game at Optus. That strongly suggests that line-ball decisions are heavily going West Coast's way at home, and not being paid to their opponents.

 What's more likely - West Coast play radically different footy at different venues, or there is something else affecting the umpiring at Optus...?

These differentials reflect very poorly upon the umpires.

[emblem for me 10]

17 hours ago, SFebey said:

WB in 2016 ?

they were dropping the knees every week.

[monoccular 16,052]

4 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Someone on bigfooty did some digging and had this to say .....

If the same teams tend to get more or fewer free kicks every week, that strongly suggests that the cause is the different game styles or levels of discipline that they apply.

 The much bigger issue is when one team (West Coast) gets a huge free kick advantage but only does so at a particular venue (Optus).

 Specifically, this year in the first 11 games the stats look like this:

 At Optus Stadium:

 Games: 7
 Frees for: 172
 Frees against: 121
 Average West Coast advantage: 7.3 free kicks per game

 At all other venues:

 Games: 4
 Frees for: 73
 Frees against: 83
 Average West Coast advantage: -2.5

 So when playing at home, apparently something mysteriously happens to West Coast's discipline and game plan which means that they deserve an extra 10 free kicks per game compared to when they play away from home.

 It's also interesting to note that West Coast's opponents get significantly fewer free kicks per game (ignoring the differential) at Optus, whereas West Coast gets massively more free kicks per game at Optus. That strongly suggests that line-ball decisions are heavily going West Coast's way at home, and not being paid to their opponents.

 What's more likely - West Coast play radically different footy at different venues, or there is something else affecting the umpiring at Optus...?

Try running that past the umpiring coaches or Gillon etc and prepare for spin not seen since Shane Warne retired.

[Trisul 636]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

No .. they get smaller crowds and are probably less vocal and feral than WCE.

20%.  So far in 2018 WC average home games get 53697, Fremantle get 45585.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,394]

3 hours ago, monoccular said:

also which frees are missed, though much harder of course to quantify

WCE just over the top.

A further breakdown of home vs away WCE games could be very enlightening. 

No .. they get smaller crowds and are probably less vocal and feral than WCE.

 

A further breakdown of the for and against stats by umpire would be of interest - Chamberpot certainly appears to penalise MFC for every possible trivial pursuit.

Maybe. But that just seems to be try to find a reason to justify the first argument. So, I'll reiterate, I think the comparative data for West Coast and Fremantle throws a spanner in the "home ground bias" theory. Having said that, the AFL would not be doing its job properly if it didn't try to understand why the Eagles do so well with free kicks.