Terrorist attack on Canadian Mosque

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

16 minutes ago, hardtack said:

WW1, WW2, Rwanda (Hutus v Tutsis), ethnic cleansing in the Balkans... these were some of the worst conflicts the world has seen in the past 100 years and in not one single instance was islam to blame.

That's just what your leftist overlords want you to think.

Behind each of those was a fundamentalist Islamic puppet master.

You're very lucky Biffen is here to educate you in such matters. I suggest more thorough research before posting again, you hippie scum.

[Demon trucker 1,744]

what people don't understand is Trump wants to have a big war to destroy Islam the KKK is now in the white house 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Just now, don't make me angry said:

what people don't understand is Trump wants to have a big war to destroy Islam the KKK is now in the white house 

It's overreach like that that gives Trump critics a bad name.

In any case, I'd suggest its Steve Bannon who's really the one who wants a war. To me is seems Trump just wants to be non-interventionist and more protectionist. Bannon has used more inflammatory language.

[Demon trucker 1,744]

2 hours ago, Choke said:

It's overreach like that that gives Trump critics a bad name.

In any case, I'd suggest its Steve Bannon who's really the one who wants a war. To me is seems Trump just wants to be non-interventionist and more protectionist. Bannon has used more inflammatory language.

Anybody that thinks a billion air that cares about the poor man is stupid, Trump ban gives the radicals ammunition to make more Muslim angry 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

12 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Anybody that thinks a billion air that cares about the poor man is stupid, Trump ban gives the radicals ammunition to make more Muslim angry 

This I agree with.

But don't say he's in the KKK or that he's deliberately starting wars. The hyperbole is just used by right-wingers as an example of lefties out of touch with reality.

[bing181 8,165]

Just to say: I've just finished a major project led by a muslim guy, as were most of those involved. His main concern at the moment? a) that his nephew will finish high school with good enough grades to get into the University he wants and b) that his aunt is seriously ill.

I lived for many years in a predominately muslim neighbourhood, and the characterisations of muslims that I read on these (and other) pages have little or nothing to do with the reality.

[hardtack 10,126]

44 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Just to say: I've just finished a major project led by a muslim guy, as were most of those involved. His main concern at the moment? a) that his nephew will finish high school with good enough grades to get into the University he wants and b) that his aunt is seriously ill.

I lived for many years in a predominately muslim neighbourhood, and the characterisations of muslims that I read on these (and other) pages have little or nothing to do with the reality.

Yep, regardless of how one cares to interpret the Q'ran, those that get involved in terror tactics will only be the extreme fundamentalists and will be in a very very small minority.

The Bible is just as open to interpretation as can be seen by the way in which extreme fundamentalists in the US see fit to murder abortion clinic operators etc. In Africa there are radical Christian groups who slaughter Muslims.

The majority of people are able to make up their own minds about what is acceptable and what is not and lead peaceful law abiding lives; fundamentalists in any faith on the other hand, feel obliged to adhere to the "word" to the letter.

[Biffen 12,323]

17 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

There are none so daft as those who parrot meaningless cliches

[Biffen 12,323]

23 hours ago, hardtack said:

WW1, WW2, Rwanda (Hutus v Tutsis), ethnic cleansing in the Balkans... these were some of the worst conflicts the world has seen in the past 100 years and in not one single instance was islam to blame.

I suppose you've heard of Gallipoli ?That was the place where we fought the Turks allied with Germany inWW1.

Have you heard of Syria or Palestine, Lebanon,Libya,Tunisia or Egypt?Islamist countries.

That was where we fought Hitlers allies who identified with Nazism in WW2.

Ethnic cleansing in the Balkans was an attempt at retribution for Islamic atrocities committed over many centuries.

The Rwanda genocide was a tribal conflict so perhaps no Muslims to blame for that.

The other 3 points you  tried to make are flat out wrong.

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Biffen

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

6 hours ago, Biffen said:

There are none so daft as those who parrot meaningless cliches

Pots and kettles I suspect here

[Biffen 12,323]

3 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Pots and kettles I suspect here

Do you write on autopilot ?

The first cliche you used was in response to a post I made that conceded Muslims may have had contact with Aborigines prior to European settlement .Hardtack presented an article backing his assertion that may have merit if you take songs and dances as hard fact.In the absence of a written culture it is plausable,discounting Dirk Hartog and WilliamJanszoon .The entire Muslim history lacks much text- they only need one text- and a sword.Their atrocious progress was usually recorded by their hapless opponents.

Your second pot/kettle effort shows how little you think at all about anything.    In response to a criticism that you spout cliches you use another.

Your are the guy standing around saying " oh yeah!".

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Biffen

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

21 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Do you write on autopilot ?

The first cliche you used was in response to a post I made that conceded Muslims may have had contact with Aborigines prior to European settlement .Hardtack presented an article backing his assertion that may have merit if you take songs and dances as hard fact.In the absence of a written culture it is plausable,discounting Dirk Hartog.The entire Muslim history lacks much text- they only need one text- and a sword.Their atrocious progress was usually recorded by their hapless opponents.

Your second pot/kettle effort shows how little you think at all about anything.    In response to a criticism that you spout cliches you use another.

Your are the guy standing around saying " oh yeah!".

 

I made no comment about that. I "think" more than you know mate.  I work with the Islamic community very closely.  Stop your labelling please.  It is offensive.  Perhaps you might try readying a A Short History of Islam.  ......... written by a Catholic Nun.

[Biffen 12,323]

45 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

I made no comment about that. I "think" more than you know mate.  I work with the Islamic community very closely.  Stop your labelling please.  It is offensive.  Perhaps you might try readying a A Short History of Islam.  ......... written by a Catholic Nun.

I'm happy to read her tome if you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.

A culture that tries to make everyone equal under God is frightening and despicable, however well intentioned.(see Animal Farm- George Orwell).

Communism replaces god with " the common good".

These personal experience stories about your work add zero to the discussion either. It's akin to saying "I have a black/Asian / Eskimo friend".

As to your offence,I suggest you go to the Imam and have a Fatwah placed upon me as those lovely people do when they encounter an idea that undermines their power structure of blind obedience.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, iv'a worn smith said:

I made no comment about that. I "think" more than you know mate.  I work with the Islamic community very closely.  Stop your labelling please.  It is offensive.  Perhaps you might try readying a A Short History of Islam.  ......... written by a Catholic Nun.

ASIO?

[Ethan Tremblay 28,359]

I dislike all religions.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[hardtack 10,126]

11 hours ago, Biffen said:

I suppose you've heard of Gallipoli ?That was the place where we fought the Turks allied with Germany inWW1.

Have you heard of Syria or Palestine, Lebanon,Libya,Tunisia or Egypt?Islamist countries.

That was where we fought Hitlers allies who identified with Nazism in WW2.

Ethnic cleansing in the Balkans was an attempt at retribution for Islamic atrocities committed over many centuries.

The Rwanda genocide was a tribal conflict so perhaps no Muslims to blame for that.

The other 3 points you  tried to make are flat out wrong.

 

You stated that "Islam is an intolerant religion almost ENTIRELY to blame for most world conflicts"... kindly tell me which of the conflicts I listed were almost ENTIRELY down to Islam?  And are you saying that the battles in those Islamist countries you list above were the major part of WW2?  If you check your facts rather than cherry picking simply to justify your blind hatred of Islam, you will find that not one of the bloodiest battles in WW2 took place in the middle east - Stalingrad, Berlin, Moscow, Italy, France etc.

Perhaps you might like to check out Joseph Kony and his Lords Resistance Army - there's a lovely bunch of good Christians for you.  The Central African Republic also has a nice history of Christian terrorism forcing devotees of Islam out.

I'm not sure what the "other 3 points you  tried to make are flat out wrong" are... perhaps you might like to give a hint? (they certainly weren't in the comment you responded to)

Edited February 3, 2017 by hardtack

[Ethan Tremblay 28,359]

Edgar Allan Poe summed it up perfectly -

"All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry." 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

16 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

ASIO?

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

1 hour ago, Biffen said:

I'm happy to read her tome if you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.

 

Good book, but it indicts all religion equally, so not great for picking on Islam itself. For that you'll probably want anything written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. IMO Dawkins is too combative these days to be constructive. Dan Dennett's probably the most constructive athiest author around atm, possibly because no one can be too hard on a guy who looks that much like Santa Claus.

Hitchens is my favourite, because I've never seen anyone match his wit. Very sad when he passed.

[Biffen 12,323]

10 minutes ago, hardtack said:

You stated that "Islam is an intolerant religion almost ENTIRELY to blame for most world conflicts"... kindly tell me which of the conflicts I listed were almost ENTIRELY down to Islam?  And are you saying that the battles in those Islamist countries you list above were the major part of WW2?  If you check your facts rather than cherry picking simply to justify your blind hatred of Islam, you will find that not one of the bloodiest battles in WW2 took place in the middle east - Stalingrad, Berlin, Moscow, Italy, France etc.

Perhaps you might like to check out Joseph Kony and his Lords Resistance Army - there's a lovely bunch of good Christians for you.  The Central African Republic also has a nice history of Christian terrorism forcing devotees of Islam out.

I'm not sure what the "other 3 points you  tried to make are flat out wrong" are... perhaps you might like to give a hint? (they certainly weren't in the comment you responded to)

My comment was in relation to current world conflict.You replied with some older ones and I should have made a distinction.

Whilst not To blame for ALL of them you must admit Islam plays a part in most of them currently.

You mentioned the great wars and whilst Germany can shoulder the blame for initiating both, as well as for festering Communist ideology , I pointed out the allies they had in North Africa who foolishly decided to side with Italy and Germany.Perhaps I should have qualified this earlier,

I won't be drawn into Kony , Hutus or any other African war not involving Islam but you neglected the Sudan region conveniently enough, which is a hell on earth you can blame on Islamic murderers.

I'm not sure what benefit Islam has ever bought- it is anti thought.

Why anyone would defend it is bizarre.

Those that follow it are bound to go the way of the dinosaur.

Darwinian theory takes care of us all in the end.

[Biffen 12,323]

2 minutes ago, Choke said:

Good book, but it indicts all religion equally, so not great for picking on Islam itself. For that you'll probably want anything written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. IMO Dawkins is too combative these days to be constructive. Dan Dennett's probably the most constructive athiest author around atm, possibly because no one can be too hard on a guy who looks that much like Santa Claus.

Hitchens is my favourite, because I've never seen anyone match his wit. Very sad when he passed.

I loved Hitch and was sad when he died also.

Dawkins does give Christianity some credit for its ability to evolve, which is his forte.

RD places Islam on top of the idiocy pile, rightly.

Poor old Ali is the poster girl for apostasy which is only natural when one has had their genitals mutilated with the acquiescence of her stupid god fearing parents.

Will look at Dennet as I'm unaware of his work.

Michel Onfray is another fine thinker who give all religion a nice whack.

"The is no God but Gawn and Viney will profit"

[hardtack 10,126]

29 minutes ago, Biffen said:

My comment was in relation to current world conflict.You replied with some older ones and I should have made a distinction.

Whilst not To blame for ALL of them you must admit Islam plays a part in most of them currently.

You mentioned the great wars and whilst Germany can shoulder the blame for initiating both, as well as for festering Communist ideology , I pointed out the allies they had in North Africa who foolishly decided to side with Italy and Germany.Perhaps I should have qualified this earlier,

I won't be drawn into Kony , Hutus or any other African war not involving Islam but you neglected the Sudan region conveniently enough, which is a hell on earth you can blame on Islamic murderers.

I'm not sure what benefit Islam has ever bought- it is anti thought.

Why anyone would defend it is bizarre.

Those that follow it are bound to go the way of the dinosaur.

Darwinian theory takes care of us all in the end.

I am not defending Islam (in case that's what you are thinking), I am more against tarring everyone with the same brush.  Humans are sentient beings (derr!) and so apart from the relative handful of fundamentalists (in any religion) who seem to have been set up with faulty wiring, most people are able to apply there own moral standards and not follow instructive writings blindly. The reason I raised Kony was to show that Islam does not have a stranglehold on terrorism...Christianity has its fair share of terrorists as well.

Also, I believe that those fundamentalists who follow any religion should go the way of the dinosaur.

And I too am a fan of Richard Dawkins, as I am of Philip Pullman and Malise Ruthven (The Divine Supermarket).

[Biffen 12,323]

1 hour ago, hardtack said:

I am not defending Islam (in case that's what you are thinking), I am more against tarring everyone with the same brush.  Humans are sentient beings (derr!) and so apart from the relative handful of fundamentalists (in any religion) who seem to have been set up with faulty wiring, most people are able to apply there own moral standards and not follow instructive writings blindly. The reason I raised Kony was to show that Islam does not have a stranglehold on terrorism...Christianity has its fair share of terrorists as well.

Also, I believe that those fundamentalists who follow any religion should go the way of the dinosaur.

And I too am a fan of Richard Dawkins, as I am of Philip Pullman and Malise Ruthven (The Divine Supermarket).

 Ok .I am not advocating tarring all with the same brush but the unifying texts of the Koran and the Hadiths do just that.

Anyone outside of those parameters faces the wrath of their sky God.

I know my intelligence must rely on criticism and correction,constant growth if it is to be releavant.

Those poor people sucked into Scientology suffer in the same way as Muslims.The faith they have is based on "I know I'm right because my imaginary friend told me so".

If the spaceship comes down from Xenu and carries them away then I'll accept Hubbard has got it right.

The difference and the problem I have with Islam is stark in that it's an end game ,or a winners and losers scenario.Once in it they can't get out or they face execution.

It will die a messy death with informative discussion.

I'm not prepared to have it in Australia as an acceptable religion ,nor do I think. Scientology should be allowed here.but at least Kate Ceberano will not cut my head off.

 

[Binmans PA 26,028]

I see this as a direct response to Trump's fascist laws in the United States. As soon as you ban people, you dehumanise them, you class them as somehow different from yourself, you welcome this sort of attack. A Texas mosque was also burnt down (Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/victoria-islamic-centre-mosque-fire-texas-jews-give-key-synagogue-muslims-worship-gofundme-a7556331.html). It is exactly the sort of thing that the Nazis did and it's time the rhetoric changed towards the 'Alt-Right' and 'white nationalists' and called them out for what they are and that is Nazis. They are Nazis - pure and simple.

Steve Bannon is one of the most powerful men in the world and he's a Nazi. I fear for my American friends and as Trump's administration is now requiring vetting of social channels (now and retrospective) and questioning people's attitudes towards the new administration as a prerequisite for entering the country, I can now no longer do business in the country or in good conscience, contribute to a fascist economy by taking my soon to be wife on our honeymoon to the States.

The Nazis have very carefully rebranded themselves over the last few years, to the point where it's fine to 'shake things up a little' and vote in a guy who failed to adequately denounce the KKK and has someone of Bannon's ilk as a senior advisor in the White House. If they'd been called Nazis and the Left had been a bit stronger about calling them out, the scene changes. It's hard to vote for a Nazi for the majority of America, but if you're voting a hardline businessman with renewed pride in white nationalism and 'Alt-Right' connections, it's doable. He's a businessman, derp, he knows business, therefore, he knows how to run a country's, derp, economy.

Trudeau is usually one of the most grounded and progressive leaders in the world. Xenophobes fearful of losing their white privilege naturally want leaders to lock the gates completely. Hence Trump's ban and BREXIT. But it's not like refugees aren't vetted extremely carefully before being allowed to resettle.

The rise of the Hard Right in Europe as well will, as it did last time in the 20s and 30s, bring about another war. It may be our last. The National Front in France; Germany's AfD Party; Turkey's purge etc. Fascism historically has risen in times of poverty, mass job loss and financial crises. Think of the Great Depression in the 20s and 30s. Due to neoliberalism and the idiotic ideas of Ayn Rand (that failed her in her own life), corporate interests have seen the rise of the corporate 1% to the detriment of the rest of society, only many of these people (namely in Middle America) don't realise who's responsible.

The great hypocrisy I also find in all of this is the idea that Islam is an intolerant religion and yet you could say the same thing for religion as a whole (particularly Christianity). However, most of these American conservatives point to Christianity as the saviour. I'm not a fan of any religion, but I know perfectly good people from all walks of religious faith and to frame one in one way and disregard the rest is shortsighted. If you can link all of Islam to ISIS, why can't you link all of Christianity to the KKK (something I'm not suggesting you do)?

Edited February 3, 2017 by A F

[Binmans PA 26,028]

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

 Ok .I am not advocating tarring all with the same brush but the unifying texts of the Koran and the Hadiths do just that.

Anyone outside of those parameters faces the wrath of their sky God.

I know my intelligence must rely on criticism and correction,constant growth if it is to be releavant.

Those poor people sucked into Scientology suffer in the same way as Muslims.The faith they have is based on "I know I'm right because my imaginary friend told me so".

If the spaceship comes down from Xenu and carries them away then I'll accept Hubbard has got it right.

The difference and the problem I have with Islam is stark in that it's an end game ,or a winners and losers scenario.Once in it they can't get out or they face execution.

It will die a messy death with informative discussion.

I'm not prepared to have it in Australia as an acceptable religion ,nor do I think. Scientology should be allowed here.but at least Kate Ceberano will not cut my head off.

 

You understand the links between white nationalism and Christianity right? You're right. I'm gonna make some assumptions about you. They wouldn't hurt you based on the fact that you're probably a white, heterosexual male. For anyone else falling outside of those boxes, they would. And it's less cutting off heads and more burning, hanging and shooting people. It sounds like you're more of a fan of the burning, hanging and shooting.