Leaderboard

The title is appropriate - the story football doesn't want to hear. Because we don't witness it, because we don't experience it, we can pretend it didn't happen and it doesn't still happen. We should stop denying someone's experience of life and what traumas they have endured. Jack Hamilton: "It has never been the subject of report or complaint. You're saying it happens....I have no evidence of it." Wow, the VFL must have had a huge lump in their carpet with all the stuff they didn't want to know about swept under it. What a terrible indictment on society for this young man to be failed at every turn. Every aspect of his story was disturbing, but the worst that stayed in my guts were; The suspension of two years for a 'trip' when he was 16, which appeared to be the result of a campaign to set him up for the greater charge of a 'vicious kick' with suspect 'witnesses'. The abuse he received from his father, with a kick twisting his bowel when he was a child, causing him ongoing health problems which embarrassed him throughout his career, never being treated. He never ate breakfast or lunch before a game because of his condition. How did he survive, and still manage to play well? The shocking treatment from his own team mates as a young recruit. And they never stuck up for him. The lack of official intervention when the crowd were being abusive, including throwing objects at Muir. The Footy Show set up which sent him into a downward spiral. All for a cheap laugh. Eddie et al should hang their heads in shame. Disgrace. The failure of anyone at the football clubs to look after his mental well being. Didn't anyone think to ask themselves, does this kid need guidance and help. Don't forget, he was only a young man at the time. All and all a shameful part of football history. The next time someone like Heritier Lumumba speaks up about his experience we should not be so quick to dismiss him as some sort troublemaker and wish he would be quiet, otherwise we will be reading about these stories again and again. We will never learn. As witnessed by the latest attacks on players on social media. Disappointing.

This is what I think is most important. We have a game plan that relies of the contest and defence. We have a big, brutal defence and a big, brutal midfield. They thrive on the contest and drive the ball forward. We have a silky, attacking forward line that is good at turning chances into goals .... but they're mismatched with the rest of our side. We have two tall forwards (Weid and TMac), three mediums (Fritsch, Hannan and Melksham) and two smalls (Kossie and Spargo) rotating through over the course of a game. This works just fine against teams where we can defend easily with our midfield/defenders (like we have the last 3 weeks) because these players are very good at turning this dominance into goals. But when you play these 7 forwards then you are effectively playing with 4 non-tackling forwards (Weid, TMac, Fritsch and Melksham) and our ability to slow down the opposition's attacks is really compromised. We currently have a bifurcated team: forwards and everyone else. We win games when we can make the game a slog, because we have a real advantage in the hard, contested football. We don't win shootouts, and haven't for a while because we have drafted and selected a team of big, brawling bruisers. This highest score we've conceded in a win this year was 63 against Gold Coast. In our others wins we conceded only 53, 48, 37, 35 and 44. Our losses in low scoring contests (against Brisbane and Geelong) were by 4 points and 3 points. So we should be trying to make each contests a contested slog, because we are well placed for that but we have selected a forward line for a free flowing, high scoring match. It's trying to have your cake and eat it too rather than doubling down on your core strengths and bludgeoning your opponent into submission week in and week out by selecting a fast, high pressure forward line that can play the same high pressure game as the rest of our team. That might mean that we have to leave some of our better players out of the side and bring in some clearly less talented players to play more defensive roles in order to help our team play more cohesively.

the thing is, I think, people are all a mixture of things - and we get the idea of "the dominant story", when that's only part of it. The Robert Muir story in the paper the other day put up some of the "alternative stories" about him. A lot of us only knew the "mad dog" story, which Northey rightly (wisely) called out early on. You see things confirming the dominant story, and it becomes the person's identity. Those in a position to influence opinion need to be making sure dominant stories don't lock people into deep pigeonholes with no way out. Coaches can strengthen players by drawing out their alternative stories - and actively opposing negative dominant stories; at the same time, they won't help anyone by trying to force onto a player an alternative story that is not part of that player's make-up. St Kilda should have seen the negative dominant story of their new guy, and realised how essential it was going to be to counteract that - his talent was surely enough to have created a whole new dominant story. Jurrah was characterised as the Warlpiri Warrior, and the Jurrahcane - not helpful, with hindsight. His particular skillset could have been made the main story, and should have been. Harping on about defensive skills when he was clearly the most electrifying offensive force in the competition - it was denying his identity, and pushing away what was the dominant story that brought him to Melbourne. Please let us value Harley Bennell for who he really is. And all of us refuse these racist stereotyping stories that reduce players to categorised clones. Not everyone is good at adopting such a required dominant story. Football teams try to make the most of their players, even though there can be a mixture of parts to the player. In among the various stories of each individual, there can be stories that are valid and troubling, and needing intelligent care. Makes you realise what a wonderful person Robbie Flower was - brilliantly skilled, modest (claimed he was overpaid for what he did!) and always with a smile and time for anyone, unshakable optimist, team-oriented, loyal forever... Hard to think of a negative story. But Robbie Muir shared some of those attributes. People have a mixture of parts, and good management recognises this and brings out the best. Roos was skilled there. "Sink or swim" is no management strategy - and nor is "you made your bed - you'll have to lie in it." Good management will draw the person into their better bits - they are equally as true - and we unfortunately don't always get to choose which bit of us becomes the dominant story. Community has a responsibility. Sorry, too long.

We let him go because he became a big problem. Freo have discovered that he is still a problem. Don't we have enough problems?

I watched the Champions League final this morning and it prompted me to make a couple of comments regarding our game style, especially after Saturday. Please note that these comments are not based on any statistical research or any other in-depth knowledge - just my own observations and gut feel, as someone who grew up with soccer and fell in love with AFL: The comparison with Klopp and the German system of play is very interesting. Some people have claimed that Goodwin has looked at Klopp’s strategy to form our own game plan. If this is correct, I can see similar patterns emerging in our game, although we are still a little way off. As I see it, the club has addressed the traditional defence set up with the acquisition of May and Lever. After an inconsistent and shaky start, we are starting to see a credible and tight defensive unit being built around these two players. The next keys in the defensive unit are to find ‘wing-backs’ who can transition the ball out of defence successfully and skilfully, whilst still being able to provide a contest. We have been much more successful this year at bringing the ball out, but I don’t think that we have 100% found the right personnel, although I think Rivers is well on his way to being one of these players. Whilst the system looks to be built around a high press and attacking aggression, it is fundamentally important to have a solid defence as, if the high press is breached, there is a certain counter attack. Had it not been for the defensive efforts of Lever and May on Saturday, I believe the Doggies could have scored quite a lot more. Regarding the high press - the key to making this work, is aggressive pressure from the forward line. Against Collingwood, we saw this to great effect - against Footscray, we saw the opposite: if the forward line is not committed/fast enough to put constant pressure on the opponent’s backline, the game plan is negated, essentially meaning that the midfield line must now try to exert defensive pressure on a greater number of players, who have already started to build momentum in their movement forward. This restricts the midfield to concentrating on a negating role first and foremost, and when they do start forward movement, it is almost always from the D50 as they have had to track back so far. However, when the forward line is maintaining great pressure on the opposition defence, the game plan works perfectly: the defence are bullied and harassed into mistakes and turning the ball over in our A50. If they are able to clear the lines, our midfield are waiting to pick up the ball coming out and launch another attack, with quick and precise ball movement (which we have also got better at, this year). Our fitness is also key here: to try and defend against this type of attack is mentally and physically exhausting for an opposition. We saw in the three games prior to Saturday, that by applying pressure for 2.5 quarters, we were able to overrun the opposition for the remainder of the game. I stress that this is only my opinion - if it is correct, then I think that it’s a sustainable game plan, but we are still a couple of players off making it work successfully and continuously. The lack of pressure from the forward line on Saturday was inexcusable - apart from Kozzie and occasionally Spargo, the aggression was non-existent. The Doggies were able to start their transition out of the backline without any hindrance at all, which kills us and some of the attempted tackling was borderline pathetic. Also, it must be noted that Goodwin must accept some of the responsibility for the 3Q capitulation, by not making any tactical change to stymie Bont’s influence. This isn’t a get out for him, but the players must also learn to take initiative todirect things and make changes out on the field - I think back to that ‘Sounds Of The Game’ clip featuring Luke Hodge. Regarding changes for this week: I think TMac has pretty much had it - although with the absence of Jackson, he has had a reprieve, but it will be interesting to see if they swap Mitch Brown in this weekend or maybe stick with Preuss and play a double ruck with Max. Preuss is obviously not a great forward, but does apply pressure, as long as he’s not too gassed. I would stick Jones into that high half forward position as he is often able to lock the ball into our attacking 70-50, same with Viney. I’d be tempted to put Bedford in for Hannan, who just goes missing too much for the return on his upside. I’ve never been a massive fan of ANB, but he definitely brings contest after contest. I’d probably give Harmes a break and bring Rivers in. I’d be interested to hear what others think about my theory - even if it’s a completely opposing viewpoint.

Wasn’t sure where to put this mods. Here is an uncomfortable article dealing with the impact of racism in the VFL, with a very brief portion from a very humanistic John Northey. Losing makes me sad, but not as a sad as how we treat those ‘different’ from us. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/persecution-of-robert-muir-story-football-doesnt-want-to-hear/12553554 Go Dees.

Well written, @3183 Dee. I agree that the way we play is a sustainable brand of football, with one caveat: we're yet to prove that our current list can sustain it for four quarters and/or for long enough within a season to make finals, win finals, and win a flag. When we speak about the importance of forward half pressure, we look to the same players who fail to deliver the requisite level of pressure consistently: I'd suggest Pickett and vandenBerg, and ANB when he plays, generally do well with pressure acts (where can that stat be found, does anyone know?) but players like Fritsch, Hannan, Melksham, Spargo, Hunt, Jones, ANB, previously Garlett and Kent, have all been inconsistent. None of them bring the same output on a weekly basis when it comes to defensive pressure. Some weeks they are up and about, chasing every defender, tackling hard, repeat efforts. Other weeks they look disinterested, or too slow to impact the contest, or too weak to stick tackles, or a combination of all of those. And of course, of the three I've mentioned who are more consistent pressure-wise, vandenBerg commits far too many turnovers/clangers and ANB's a poor kick and doesn't get enough of the ball. So the question for me is whether we're capable of raising the consistency across the forward half of the ground to a level which can prevent the lapses we see within games (e.g. first quarter vs West Coast, second quarter vs Brisbane, third quarter vs Bulldogs). If we can, the rest of the way we play means we can challenge. If we can't, we'll never get there.

I think the key here is that everyone is different and everyone's situation's different. To just blanket everyone with the same brush is frankly absurd. We all have different experiences that help or hinder our development as people. Just look at Jesse Hogan. He's clearly been through the emotional and psychological ringer, imagine if you added the racial element to it. Now more than ever, rather than division, our society needs social cohesion, empathy and compassion. Reconciliation with the traditional owners of the land we live on should not be a difficult thing for white people. No one's saying you are directly responsible for the atrocities committed and the intergenerational trauma that has unleashed, but recognising that these events have occurred and being open to the different experiences of Indigenous people is a good start.

On a slightly related matter, the article describeded Muir's disgraceful treatment at Vic park by the crowd and cheer squad in particular. A friend of mine is a former multiple VFL/AFL Grand Final Umpire and he tells me the story that when umpires were asked where they were appointed each round, if it was to a Collingwood game at Victoria park - they would usuallly just say to each other inside the umpiring fratenity, in short hand, that they were umpiring at the Zoo this Saturday. It wasn't meant to be funny. More of trepidation. My friend was routinely abused and spat upon each time after a game there when walking back to the rooms and up the umpires race.

Wow. Even today people don't get it. Your comment embodies the very issue he faced.

@Elegt the Reactionary. Spargo fits into our system nicely when everyone is playing their role. He's a link player who gets involved in a lot of our scores when we're up and about.

Jeepers. Your partner cares what happens with the second tier comp in the AFL? Or was she just going 'yes, Action Jackson, darling, I'm listening'. My wife doesn't even care when her Hawks are playing. She knows more about Demonland internal politics than football. And that's the way I like it. Very easy to convince her who our son in the womb should support.

I can't fathom how they could get ahead of themselves. Surely they understand by now that only consistent efforts across, quarters games, season and seasons is good enough. Three wins against mediocre opposition (Collingwood was mediocre no matter how it is spun) doesn't mean anything. Even if we knock off the Saints this week it means nothing unless it is backed up again and again and again! A lot of people have said it but this team needs to build the trust of the supporter base. That can only be done with consistent effort. Play well and lose is one thing but turn up with only half your mind on the job and unwilling to work hard for 2 hours is something else entirely

That's the spirit! Since criticising the selections for the Adelaide game, you've posted twice before this: once complaining about our AFLW trade period, and once complaining about our trade in of Kolodjashnij. Then we lose, and you're back again complaining about our Rising Star nominated first year player. It's posters like you that make this place so difficult to deal with sometimes.

In: Gawn, Rivers, Jordon (if available) Out: Preuss, Sparrow, Spargo (if Jordon is available) I'd move AVB from the wing to the forward line to increase our tackling pressure there. And I'd move any one of Hannan, Melksham or Fritsch to the wing - I can make a case for each of them: they are all strong overhead and therefore can provide a target and all can deliver well inside 50. I'd move Viney forward for a significant amount of gametime and I would backfill his and Sparrow's midfield minutes with Harmes. If you want to see what Viney can bring inside 50 look at 2:27 in the highlights video: https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/799313/rd-13-match-highlights?videoId=799313&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1598080461001 As above, I'd move Harmes into the midfield to backfill Viney and Sparrow and bring in Rivers to the back 7. If Jordon is available (he wasn't mentioned in the Scratch match vs St.Kilda) I'd bring him in for Spargo because I think he may offer more midfield depth grunt and I already have 7 forwards with Weed, TMac, AVB, Viney, Pickett and 2 of Hannan, Melksham or Fritsch.

Absolutely love Kysaiah (“ Kozzzzzzy “) Pickett. He brings the excitement to the game and is the small forward we need to bring the pressure and the energy to our forward 50. But he is still a raw kid who needs coaching. I have watched both the Pies and Bulldogs games live and have some coaching observations. 1- Kozzy gets sucked up the ground too much especially v the dogs. In general play, he has been brought upfield too much leaving us with no forward crumbers. HE NEEDS TO BE INSTRUCTED TO STAY IN THE FORWARD 50. That’s where he is truly dangerous. Not on the HFF or wing where he is consumed and tackled in traffic. Get him either 1 on 1 or at the feet of Weid or running around the goals. We lacked the forward pressure and crumbing. Where was the front and centre roving which we saw against the Pies. 2- Kozzy needs to stop flying into packs to take the mark. Twice v Bulldogs we had Weid, Fritsch and Kozzy all flying together in a pack. Guess what. No one down to get the crumbs. Twice the footy came out the back to the dogs to run it out. 3- Kozzy loves to snap the footy across his body. Twice he hit the post on Saturday which would have been crucial goals. It’s unlucky but both times he could have steadied for a regular drop punt. Everyone loves a Stevie J snap but sometimes a regular kick is better. Just some observations which I’m sure our Supercoach will be fully across.

Agree, but will never happen. At the end of the day Eddie and Sam are just a couple racist morons.

The Footy Show might be the worst Aussie TV show ever, apologies to Rove Live .

No one other club is going to trade for Smith when they can just pick up a delisted free agent. Even if he asks for trade, no one is going to come banging down the door. Billy Stretch and JKH also asked to look at trade options last year and both barely got a nibble. And both made far more impact then Smith. In regards to Baker, I am fan and in the boat that he needs to start getting games. Goodwin needs to stop this idea of Vandenberg being a winger because its not working. Hunter and their outside mids exposed him on the weekend. Hate to think what Hill will do..

Tom Lynch, Richmond, has been charged with Striking Michael Hurley, Essendon, during the fourth quarter of the Round 13 match between Essendon and Richmond, played at TIO Stadium on Saturday August 22.The incident was classified as a direct referral to the Tribunal and the player cannot be offered an early plea.

I'd like to try Tomlinson back on a wing which is what he was recruited for, he can also play as an inside mid at stoppages to allow Oliver and Trac to get on the outside. He can also be a tall target on kick ins and switching play.

Will need changes with injuries b Certain players having bad games are sometimes a symptom rather than the cause of a loss. Especially forward line. Dogs had 8 midfielders we had 5. Their wings and HF's or HB's all worked as a unit, ours did not. We also missed opportunities in front of goal in the 3rd which could have stopped that momentum and given us a slimmer deficit to chase in the last. I thought Bulldogs defended very well and took all their opportunities. We lost the midfield battle, weren't able to spread and weren't ready for their ability to run and play checkers basically. Outclassed and outcoached. Coach's needed to sacrifice Spargo, Melksham or Hannan to play more of a mid role to even up the numbers rather than trying to play their zone in behind role. zero output after half time. Chuck Kozi in the middle for a bit. At least he's unpredictable. Hannan in for Jones probably upset the system a bit the Sparrow went down. Gawn back will fix alot of this IMO, hopefully will get the mids back on their toes and not on their heels. Our backline is heavy with left foot rebounders and are too easy to defend against. Rivers needs to come back. He runs towards the goals and breaks the lines and can penetrate. Hibberd runs sideways on his left and doesn't penetrate. Likewise with Salem at times also when under pressure does his dinky kicks. Harmes and Tomlinson aren't natural defenders, this was exposed. not their fault when the ball is coming in repeatedly. I'm still a believer that Oscar plays. Even if he spuds it up at times. This benefits the other 5 defenders by allowing May and Lever to plays at their best. In: Gawn, Rivers, Oscar Out: Preuss, Hibberd, Sparrow Lockhart Oscar Lever Salem May Harmes Langdon Viney Rivers Melksham TMac Spargo Pickett Weid Fritsch Gawn Trac Oliver AVB Brayshaw Tomlinson Hannan

So you would be alright with full beer cans and coins being pelted at your head on a week by week basis, along with all the verbal, spiting and carry on? The VFL/AFL still have a code to this day of treating people of different cultures with disdain. Saints, Woodville-West Torrens,AFL, Malcolm Blight, Bill Sanders, Alister McCalister, Collingwood, Geelong should be ashamed of themselves absolutely disgraceful bigots the lot of them. John Northey take a bow.

Picket had 21 pressure acts and should have kicked two. Hannan has had how many chances?

Coincedentaly I just read the article (not realising there was this thread). Heartbreaking. So much trauma. I started going to the footy regularly (ie most weeks), usually by myself, as a 11 year old in 1978 and fans yelling racial abuse was so common as not to be even noticed. The footy show episode says everything you need to know about racism in this country. And how far we have to go to even get close to meaningful reconciliation. Assuming of course we actually want to get there. Which I am far from convinced about. No doubt many would say oh that was long ago. Well one of those aresehokes who thought such a 'skit' was funny is the president of Collingwood (in a lineage that includes that pig mcallister) who still thinks racial jokes are hilarious. And the other shamefully still has a very public voice. And was just sued by Nicky winmar for defamation after claiming he was lying about his famous protest (one i didn't know Robbie muir had made a decade before) I feel ashamed for using the mad dog epithet many times over years when talking about Robert Muir.

Great thread thanks to all the contributors and all the links to read/watch Just picking up on this part of the discussion and a post prior to this that mentioned clubs do not have plan B's and players train all off season practising to implement their game plan. If a coach does start throwing things around when the team is losing and changing the message about how the team is to play it would send a message to the players that the ciach has lost belief that the system they have been drilled with is strong enough to overcome. Either the system is strong enough and the players just need to implement it better or the players are good enough but the system can't beat the opposition. It may result in a one off win if the players play with a bit more freedom and flair but it is likely to be a dead cat bounce similar to when a coach is sacked. Footy has changed since the 80s/early 90s when Sheedy could swing the magnets around and rely on individual skill and brilliance to win a game. Players are so well drilled now and so well structured and coached in their own groups (mids, fwds, backs) I think it would be difficult to really make too many changes in game without completely disrupting the balance of the team.