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Thanks for the apology but you don't need to, as you and I know each other well enough to know, that we wouldn't intentionally offend the other. I believe that as I said Don will stand down and I think others will too. I don't think all of them need to go as we may lose some real talent. For example what if 3-4 talented board members were against all of the bad decisions, raised arguments for their views but were simply outvoted, Do you suggest they should go? As for the Gardiner Board they stepped aside for another Board, that was ready to take their place and made up of on the face of it, by some pretty impressive people and headed by a former Demon great. Yes the Gardiner Board could have refused to go and fought an election. Who do you think would have won that fight? Maybe they saw the writing on the wall and did the right thing. At the moment I don't see another ticket of impressive people ( MFC members ) offering to lead the club. Why are you criticizing the current board for not abandoning their posts when there is no alternative ready to take over? I don't understand that position. Only a coward or quitter runs away. It would be different if a viable alternative was ready willing and able, that is not the case. To be perfectly honest, other than perhaps someone like Kennett, I don't give a damn who runs this club. All I want is a competitive football team to watch. I haven't got one. I was close to tears on monday. I actually went to the fence and shouted at umpire number 6 from about 4 feet away over the Watts free kick which robbed us of any impetus and led to the onslaught of Pie goals. I have never done that before. Incidentally the umpire turned to me and shrugged as if to say he made a mistake. Mc Burney just smiled. This is what this debacle is doing to me. I am devastated at the poor decisions, made by my club that has led us to this calamity. None more so than BP. I can't believe again I am saying this, but I actually feel like I hate the guy. That is not my usual character. I feel for every supporter of our club. I understand every angry Demonlander venting their spleen. They have every right to do so. I feel sorry for my kids. My son is a fanatic beyond belief and I actually believe he would make a better President than most we have had recently. I feel sorry for my wife who WAS in tears over what has happened to us. Our family is but one of many that has given and invested so much into this club over so many years. You know me well and you would know how much this hurts me, but I actually told my Pies supporting son in law, that he could join my 2 grand daughters up as Pies members, so that they could have a chance of success with their team. They will however probably be members of both clubs. I wish I could cuddle Jaded who I have never met and tell her hang on, don't give up we will come good. I wish I could cheer up Old Dee and Why You Little. I wish I could make Stuie and JnrMac happy. I wish I could do something to make us better. What we must all do however, is not eat our own. I accept that the mistakes are just that, not deliberate. We must pray for PJ that he gets it right and that he screws the AFL for everything he can get. We must just keep faith in our club and when we are successful, we will enjoy it like nothing else, because of our suffering and we will tell the rest of the AFL footy world to go to hell, we are back.

Toumpas over Wines is too early to tell. Seriously, both kids are only in their first year, which hardly tells you what the finished product for them will be. Toumpas was more highly rated than Wines by most in the lead up to the draft, though Wines was clearly the more ready to play straight away. Have some patience.

Like most of you I expect, I am known amongst my friends as a very passionate Demons supporter. In recent years, I have signed up a quite a few of my mates' sons to the club. My mates have allowed it because they don't believe their kids will actually support such an ordinary club in due course. I signed my own son up to the club earlier this year. Three months before he was born. He doesn't even know what's going on. My mates keep asking 'why do you do it?' - and commenting 'just let it go - switch to the Swans'. At least do it for Henry (my son). In short, they feel sorry for me. But I don't want their sorrow. In fact, I feel sorry for them. Why? Because it's unusual to be able to follow a sporting team that so readily reveals one's character. Anyone can elect to support an Essendon, or a Carlton, or the Crows, or a Sydney. When I think of my friends who support such clubs, a lot of them are fairly non-descript supporters who just blend in - I can't always say with certainty who they actually support. They often miss games, and many typically only start really following their team in the second or third week of the finals. You see, it's easy to support those clubs - their survival is guaranteed and, over the space of a 6 or 7 year period, so are finals. Vanilla stuff compared to what we have to endure week in, week out. Throughout the season a lot of them look at the results in the paper on Monday, and then comment to me 'yep, another good win for us on the weekend. Pity about the Dees'. They haven't watched the game obviously - I however always have. They know that. It grates, because I'm the passionate supporter, whereas, for many of them, they're supporters only out of convenience. I tell them it's lucky clubs don't get to trade supporters the way they get to trade players, because they'd all be de-listed. They laugh - but they know it's true. Many of them are fair weather supporters, unlike most of the regulars here. In fact, the supporters here are the types that all clubs would want on their books, even if they wouldn't want all of our players. So am I doing the right thing by young Henry in forcing/encouraging him to support the Demons?! Too bloody right I am. He'll get the opportunity to support a unique club and show some heart in doing it. All of his mates will blow in the wind supporting some other big club and it'll all blend into one - they're all massive clubs, easy to support, and it'll be all the less remarkable as a result. In short, getting to support the MFC is a gift. Most people don't elect to - they inherit it. And it's a damn good inheritance. For me personally, I think I'm as passionate about this club as if they'd won a dozen or so flags in the last 20 years. In fact, I think I'm more passionate because we haven't and because we've always got our back to the wall. Perhaps it's the lure of the underdog - but it's certainly addictive. It's probably the same reason some of the most passionate English soccer supporters often support the likes of a West Ham or an Everton, and the most passionate baseball supporters support the likes of the Chicago Cubs and the Red Sox. After all, anyone can go for a Collingwood, a Manchester United, Real Madrid or the New York Yankees. But I rarely, if ever, raise an eyebrow when I hear that someone does. It's just so damn unremarkable. Go Demons.

it's not about whether we 'deserve' it or not. We didn't 'earn' Queen's Birthday originally, and its existence is not about whether Melbourne or Collingwood 'deserve' it. It's a fixture with its roots in history. If the AFL wants to change it up because Melbourne's underperforming, then consistency would dictate that when Collingwood/Essendon have a bad year, they don't get ANZAC Day. When Carlton is crap, they shouldn't get two games a year against Collingwood. The AFL shafts Melbourne already with its fixturing. Leaving QBD for us is no real problem to anyone, and I guarantee you that the AFL is more interested in increasing the number of blockbusters than maintaining the number and rotating clubs through them.

What a crock, especially that last line. McLardy has been publicly setting upp his disengagement for weeks. Where is our Kennett? Our Kennetts are not throwing Molatovs at the club - they are talking to the club. Geoff Freeman is willing to give his time and energy apparently to be a Director and there was no need for him to play that out in the media or slag the current members of a Board he may have to work with in the future. I don't know of many who defend the status quo - I think that is defenseless tripe to suggest of your fellow MFC supporters, as is the notion that our demise is close or that we deserve it. The club will get renewal. It may not be satisfying for those who want to have people to blame, or Directors to lambast in an election, but you will get renewal. And we have to do it in a methodical manner that is respectful to those who have given their time, money, and energy, and we have to do it within the parameters of an AFL that wants to help us out of our current mire. We have an AFL-endorsed CEO. We will soon have a renewed Board with a new President. We will enter 2014 with a properly functioning FD, led by one with previous experience in running an FD, and a new coach - one with previous experience in the job. These are achievable things to hope for, and to be thankful for. It will happen.

If Don is replaced by Freeman in the next week which looks very likely based on comment from a from a few who should know, I would hope that the club does it with some dignity for Don and any other board member who move on. These people may or may not have made a few mistakes but they all have put in significant time, effort and money well above anything done by most critics on this forum. I find threads like this and the vitriol directed at these people disappointing. Regardless of the position of the club they deserve our thanks and credit for the things they have done right 1, Completely changed the football department and the FD spend to create the foundation for a proessional and successful club. 2. Eliminated over $5m debt that hung over the club 3. Developed a strong link with casey and provided a modern well resourced training base for the team 4. Developed the partnership with the NT to expand our support base and revenue base. 5. Navigated us through a shocking couple of years of off field dramas most of which were outside our control. Yes the team is crap and probably underperforming but the club has better fundamentals in place now than before they took over and that should be recognised. I also have respect fo Don and the job he done for his mate Jim. He is a good bloke and deserves our thanks and our respect.

Funny how a player misses an entire pre-season with a very debilitating foot injury, and it takes him extra long to gain a bit of speed and fitness. It's almost shocking. We moan that our players are no good, but are so quick to cut down those with serious talent who may not be firing on all cylinders for a variety of reasons. Age and experience, plus fitness, being the main ones. Trenner is a baby FFS. Just because some idiot decided to make him captain, doesn't mean he can suddenly develop into a mature player over night.

Why would we upgrade a rookie whose barely got a touch at afl level?

From what I can tell, his modus operandi is pretty simple. A step by step to being Satyr: 1. Search for threads where someone expresses an opinion that is not entirely supportive of the club's direction, or anyone directly contributing to that direction; 2. Respond to that person in the most antagonistic/condescending way possible, claiming they either have some alterior motive or don't know what they are talking about. Using names like "orc" or "keyboard hero" work best in catching people's attention, and such labels also allow for grouping people together in a simplified manner; 3. Once the initial reply achieves an equally antagoniistic response, point to the language in the response as evidence that the person doesn't wish to contribute constructively to the topic; 4. Always take the highest ground possible and lay claim to a noble cause of bringing the club's detractors to task, and essentially saving the day; 5. At any and every opportunity, drop the names of people you have spoken to at the club. Give the impression that you can speak with authority on the club's behalf, and that you have Don McLardy on speed dial; 6. Suggest to the person that if they are so upset about the club, they should run for a position there, preferably on the board. Remind them that failure to do so removes any right to be critical; 7. If the conversation has progressed beyond this point, it's time to make this sh!t personal. Assure the other person that you lead a much more fulfilling life than they do. And there you have it. 7 easy steps to being an insufferable git.

There are a handful of outstanding, heartfelt posts on this thread. They shine like gems amongst the usual array claptrap and vitriol. I congratulate the authors, and look forward to the day when we are all united in celebration rather than divided in adversity. It can't come quick enough!

Is that the best you've got Connie? Reckon you've just been owned. Nice work P-Man.

Another well credentialed journalist (and I use journalist very, very loosely) writing a balanced, informed piece on a club down on its knees. I wonder if he wrote about Matt jones and his rise from suburban footballer to afl midfielder, or dean terlich making the most of his second chance on an afl list, or Nate jones improving and carrying a young midfield and playing at a very high level week in week out. Or even mentioning that casey are top of the ladder with a host of young demon players really improving and showing the future may not stay dark for as long as some people think. But alas, it's another "sky is falling in" article to keep sponsors and the common supporter thinking that the MFC are stuffed. He could also have mentioned our home games against low drawing clubs on low drawing times lots impacting on attendance. Mondays game started at 3.20. Can anyone answer why? After a long weekend, kids have school Tuesday and the game doesn't finish til 6, traffic means families don't get back until 7, 7.30. Country members don't get home for another hour or 2 after that. All factors on top of poor form. That game should start at 2.10 in my opinion.

People on here who want the MFC to play matches at Casey Fields are really wishing we play in the VAFA. Our home the MCG holds 100,000 seats. I want to see the place full

An internal review of the board by a board member .. That's a bit like George Pell sorting out the Catholic Church isn't it?? What a joke.

We can't afford to pay the electricity bill?

See my post 85. Don is not fighting to hang on, he is leaving. He just doesn't want Kennett to take over. You were joking in your last paragraph when you said we could get Clarkson if we had a Kennett led Board, weren't you. Clarkson hates him. I believe his fellow Directors are not in love with him either. The AFL are not fans either. His Gallipoli comment was disgraceful and a pathetic, typical lapse in judgment.

That is one of the most ridiculous comments I've read. Don't care? How about opening your eyes to some positives and look at the bigger picture? You think the supposed "pro neeld" club is happy with big losses? Or that the demon supporter base is so divided? I am definitely not pro neeld. But I have enough footy knowledge to realise that there are positives there. Sure, your argument back will be close minded like "83 points on Monday" or my favourite "5 wins out of 36". But you don't understand just how far behind this group was before neeld, Craig and mission arrived. Everyone has said it, from neeld and Craig, to cale bloody Morton! You can't just make the human body start working 50% harder right away, or you have a situation like essendon last year with a huge soft tissue injury count. It's a gradual improvement, its standards increasing and effort increasing. Instead of playing good quarters, its a half, then 3 quarters, then a full game.If you think a new coach coming in next week would benefit anyone, you are off the mark. 14 more games with an interim coach, before a new coach next year who comes in and changes the way they play again. You just don't turn Evans, trengove, viney, blease, toumpas and Kent into 35possession, 5 clearance players overnight. But at least they have Nate jones, jack grimes and now rodan to learn from, as opposed to Moloney and other players with questionable work ethic. But they will, because individually they are hard workers and keen to improve. Which is why they were drafted. But if you keep abusing posters as not caring, just because they can find a positive and see all the change coming to the playing group and footy department that WILL make us better, then that just shows your incapability to have any open minded thinking as an individual.

An internal review of the board from a current member is also a conflict of interest. Deloitte or not it should be handled externally to give a fair ruling.

Davey has reminded me that he is still one of the best kicks in the league, but the best kick so far this year has come from Trengove. In the first quarter, on the half-forward flank he hit Watts lace-out in a crowded forward line. What made this kick so good was he didn't kick the ball to Watts, he kicked the ball to space and made him lead to the ball. Melbourne players have a horrible habit of kicking to where the player is, not where he will be. This however was a tiny ray of light which suggests the players aren't completely clueless about the basics of football.

I know I'm going to cop a flame for this, but I want to say I actually feel better after watching the Collingwood game than I did at the start of the year after the Port one. I feel really hopeful and I reckon we're on the right track, as horrible as that may seem right now. What I saw in that first quarter was nothing short of remarkable. Sylvia laid 5 tackles. The boys played with real intensity. If not for 3 (I think it was 3?) posts, we would have been way in front. I normally don't subscribe to the "what-if" scenarios of hindsight, but in this case, those 3 goals would have made a huge difference. Collingwood looked demoralised, and would have been further had those been on the board. But the real hope IMHO came in the press conference. Neeld said something that really resonated with me, it was something like "we could have stuck Howe and Trenners on half back and limited the score, but then they wouldn't learn anything." He makes an interesting point. Does it really matter if we loose by 50 points or 90 points? It's a loss either way. The important thing is sticking with the structures and making sure the players actually learn something in the course of the game. I'm also encouraged a bit when I look at our injury list. We played 3 quarters of the game without Dawes, and we didn't have Clark, Frawley and Grimes. Garland did a great job on Cloke, but his job would have been much easier had Frawley been there, plus Grimes in the centre to help prevent the ball coming back there as often. Clark and Dawes ARE the forward structure. The best teams can cope with the loss of 4 of their best players, but we are in the unfortunate position that we can only replace them with VFL standard players or developing ones. We have no depth, but I'm convinced that our best 22 is much much better than anything we've seen this year. So the players play as if Clark and Dawes are there, and when they get back, the team will be used to the structure. I'll deal with the losses being larger in the meantime if the result is a team that learns their structure quickly and are ready for when those players slot right back in. /flameshield on. edit - spelling

C'mon guys, credit where it's due. Congratulations to Collingwood on nearly equalling the four straight Queen's Birthday wins Melbourne achieved from 2004-07 when the Demons cruised to wins by 9, 45, 47 and 13 points. I'll see if I can find some articles from the time suggesting Collingwood be removed from the annual June fixture.

IMO focusing on the 13 points isn't as relevant as the number of scoring shots we were able to generate. We were 1.7. The skill errors causing most of those 8 shots to be behinds and not goals clouds what I think is the better analysis, which is that we were only able to generate 8 shots on goal in a half of football. For comparison, against Collingwood it was 8 shots to 18. Against Hawthorn it was 8 to 22. Against Fremantle it was 4 to 20. Richmond - 9 to 16. Gold Coast - 10 to 17. Carlton - 10 to 12. Brisbane - 12 to 18. GWS - 14 to 16. WCE - 11 to 16. Essendon - 9 to 19. Port Adelaide - 9 to 18. So as you can see, we've had no more than 14 shots in the first half in any game this year. Conversely, the best we've done is keeping Carlton to 12, and every other side has had 16 or more. In the last month we've really struggled to generate enough scores in the first half to remain competitive. No more than 9, and our opponents no less than 16. In our more 'competitive' games (Carlton, Brisbane, GWS, first half against West Coast) we were able to get that number up above 10, and in some instances even keep the difference small (Carlton, GWS). In our non-competitive games (Port, Essendon, GC, Fremantle, Hawthorn, Collingwood) you can see we were getting belted by half time. Neeld spoke about it in the press conference - possession chains coming out of the backline. This is what is killing us the most of anything, and it's what we need to be working on the most, I think.

It's also worth noting that you can elevate a Rookie after Rd 11 without a LTI.

I think the focus of many of these discussions are misplaced. Rather than focusing on whether we should keep or sack Neeld, I think the question should be, do we allow the current football department more time to work on this rebuild of the playing list and the club given all the cultural and structural issues that have been highlighted within the football department. I'm neither for or against Neeld. I'm for this club rebuilding, and sticking to it's guns and showing some integrity to let a group of people appointed for 3 years to rebuild the club, to be given 3 years to rebuild the club. However, given what we know about the structural and cultural issues now, it would seem that the task was possibly greater and harder than originally envisioned. I'm for allowing Peter Jackson to put in place the new structures that are required to help drive this club towards success. I'm for a revamp of the Board to provide real leadership for this club. I'm for giving the young playing list time to develop. Are the results, or more to the point, the manner in which we are losing acceptable??? No But I believe our clubs list has been destroyed by the mismanagement of the past administrations and football departments. Spuds cannot just suddenly be turned into stars. My only argument regarding the Neeld debate is that even if he has negatively affected some within the club (or previously with the club) that the overall direction with regard to the new standards and expectations being placed on players, and the improved and more consistent form of guys like Garland, Davey, Jones, Sylvia show that some things are working. So, for me, time is needed in order to properly review and assess the performance of the coaching group, and this cannot be done properly until the other issues are sorted out. If Neeld is identified as the problem at that time, then see you later Mark. Thanks for your efforts, it just didn't work out. But, I think, for the sake of the clubs reputation that call should not be made until either the end of this season, or preferably the end of next season. Otherwise it doesn't send a good message to prospective coaching appointments.

Herald Sun reporting that Freeman has met AFL already and will soon take over. Also reported that there will be Board changes. Given that Freeman is not part of the failures of the Board we will have a new leader. Presumably he will be able to work well with PJ. If the AFL is behind our new structures that augers well for us. Apparently privately the AFL and Dunstall have said that Kennett would be a disaster. They of course won' t admit that publicly. For those that want Kennett that is fine but the AFL apparently don't and that would make getting assistance very difficult, not to mention the divisive outcome on the club. Dunstall has also said he said things publicly that we're directly opposite to what was agreed by the Hawks board and his fellow directors were furious.

They could not possibly be doing more than they currently are to earn a spot. How the hell can anyone turn their noses down at two "VFL standard" players who are smashing up oppositions every week with 40+ possession games? Not good enough for OUR midfield? Really? Mags should never have been dropped. Bloody stupid.

And what really pisses me off about this line of thought: 'We just need to get more games into them' is that we never will. Most of them won't be there in 50 games. And then whoever is 2014/5 coach will say it again. It might be true to a point, but it's also a self fulfilling prophesy: tell the team they can't do it yet and they'll prove you right. Sometimes it's better that they don't realise how little a chance they have. * I used your post to expand on something that has bugged me for a bit. It was a general response, and not one aimed at your post.

Then he should resign as the results under his guidance have been a complete failure. If we were a public company we'd be broke. Can you name them? They reduced debt by calling on members and then presided over a $500,000 AFL fine and a payout to the CEO who they reappointed 6 months earlier. And our on field performance under their guidance is just terrible. Redleg do you think they have done a good job? On any evaluation they are a failure and should recognize that and organize a competent Board in their place. They are being burned by the supporters and media because we put our trust in them, gave them our money and it's all for nothing. They have got us to such a terrible position nobody will take over. Not only that they are doing some window dressing by having a review of their performance by themselves. That may curry support from you but not from me. I don't want a review, it's a waste of time. Look at the financial bottom line and the second last line on the ladder, that will tell you. The fact that the review is by one of their own is an insult to the membership. Might as well get Wayne Swan to review the Labor Party performance. This Board has sucked money and hope out of the members. It's sad. I don't question their motive or their commitment. I question their results and have for sometime. I've been pointing out here for so long that they lack independence and process but got abused from pillar to post. And tell me this. How can Don McLardy sit on a Board that decides Neeld's future? Don selected him along with Jalland. They should stand aside and excuse themselves from any discussion on the coach's future. Sadly they won't because to be honest, they just don't get it.

Who is being the keyboard warrior here? I've given my opinion, that's what Demonland is for, it's not a reliable source of board members, it's an internet forum for MFC supporters to share their thoughts and opinions. I take it you're on the board then seeing you're potting the rest of us for "doing nothing"?

Where do you see this? I honestly do not know where this perception comes from. This really could not be further from the truth. Dunn can kick 50 metres. To me, that is the only positive. His lack of commitment, his softness, his faux aggression, his constant waving of the arms, his yelling at others to do what he won't do, his laziness, his terrible field kicking, his inability to lower the eyes, and his general all-round pathetic approach to football far outweigh his occasional goal. Of course, then we'll bring in Strauss Blease etc. and your comment will be 'we need people who can win the clearances over these skinny soft types who won't attack the ball'. I see your point, Jaded, but Strauss is still soft and doesn't get enough of the ball. If you're going to play off half back, the easiest position in football, you have to run hard, chase hard, work hard, and get amongst the play. 5 nice kicks a match from Strauss is not enough, and that's why he's getting dropped. I'm in favour of him being brought back into the side, but my view is that if he can't lift his output this year he won't be here in 2014.

Don is a good bloke, loves the Dees, but is not the president to lead at our darkest time. Mark Neeld is a good bloke, great assistant coach, but is not the coach to lead at our darkest time. Trenners and Grimes are good blokes, love the Dees, but are not the captains to lead at our darkest time. There's a pattern somewhere....

What a poor post.To suggest that YD's view is "hate filled" is such a misrepresentation of the content of his posts. Of the people who have moved towards an anti-Neeld stance, YD is still one of the more positive folks around here.

No idea. Frankly, they both should be playing to see whether they are worth a spot. Give them both 6 games. I don't care if it will make our midfield slow. It's already terrible.

How long for? My eyes are getting tired.

Interesting. Watson 'mentoring' Watts and Ling 'mentoring' Trengove. For mine, this actually validates the Neeld/Craig position of elevating Grimes and Trenners to the captaincy. After the ridiculous displacement of Junior McDonald we simply had no AFL standard leader to mentor and guide the up-and-comers. And although Trenners is slow, I have never jumped off him. He has poise and class - on open display with that kick to Watts on Monday and also his goal kicking. He is the right bloke for captain.

Didn't really fill me with confidence.

Probably a more damning assessment about how damaging Swan actually is relative to the other mids. Many clubs don't tag him. Or are you contending that Neeld wouldn't know who the damaging Pies mids are? It's laughable how many keyboard experts here have patronised Neeld's game day moves against the Pies - in particular the midfield. I mean, seriously ...

Sorry its the 80 plus floggings that make me so closed minded. I wish I was like the Pro MN camp supporters and simple don't care. Life would be simpler.

Would another team pick him up? For heavens sake don't give them a chance to find out. Let him go when he is 27 and find out then. He's got to be given the big mans time to develop. God all the attributes. Has a better leap than big Max, whose jumping ability is very limited. Max was rested because he was buggered. These two can develop together by alternating months. No hurry. On this forum we criticise the club for its poor record of developing players. Have the demonlanders have no idea of what development is. These two ruckmen need time. patience and encouragement

That's a fantastic post. That you could reply with an actual point, as opposed to "sack neeld" is a credit to you. The unfortunate thing about experience is it can not be fast tracked. We are in a position that hasn't been seen before. Not only have we drafted poorly, but through the draft concessions and talent pool drain we haven't had that influx of players to pull us up the ladder (which st kilda, western bulldogs and Adelaide are about to find out). Not only has that stunted our improvement, but it has allowed the teams who were rebuilding at similar times to overtake us. Think of north, Richmond, Brisbane and port, all teams who have had strong leaders to fast track that development. Self belief and confidence are definitely the 2 mental challenges we are facing. I know that neeld and co say through the media that we are inexperienced and that we won't be as competitive, but I sincerely doubt he would say to the players that he doesn't think they would win. If he was saying behind closed doors to players that they can't win, well I will join in and say he should be moved on effective today. But I don't think that is the case. Last nights press conference was the first time he has mentioned the senior players skill issues. We have all been calling for Mckenzie, Dunn, sellar etc to be shafted due to that, and finally it seems the coaching group have cottoned on. I think we now draw a line through Dunn and say he is in the same boat as sellar etc, and that is that he only plays when terlich, grimes, garland or whoever are injured. I think Davis deserves a sustained run in that spot, or Strauss, and that we stop playing these sub standard senior players. as you mentioned, Matt jones and terlich have come in and played a specific role, with more physically prepared bodies for afl footy that taggert, viney, toumpas etc dont yet possess. I don't believe that any dee fan yesterday couldn't see some positives early on in terms of our intent, pressure and some pieces of ball movement. But we all saw the self belief drop when collingwood kicked the first few goals in the second term, pretty much all from turnovers or decision making issues. That self belief disappeared entirely when Dawes went down. I think it's best for our on field structures if we get some sustained run with a settled team over the next month, 6 weeks. The midfield group need to continually play together, if toumpas is going to play hbf, then leave him there for a month. Same with blease and watts across half forward. It's tough for everyone seeing 70+ losses week in week out, and it s*its me no end listening to other flogs in the media spin doom and gloom about the club. But there is no quick fix, especially when 5 of the first picked players are injured and we have just played 3 of this years top 6 teams. Neeld isn't a bloke who is easy to warm to, especially after he made decisions to cut certain players and draft some fringe players at other clubs as replacement. But I think in time, those choices will show to be correct. We've just got to keep hoping that comes sooner rather than later.

I say two things to this thread..... The board needs to go but WHO is standing up to drive the club forward?? Its pathetic that we need Kennet to calling for Board change. thats how much passion has been sucked from this club. Very few seem to give a stuff because they have been treated like a mangy dog - being kicked around for months and years and pretty soon all fight is gone. They stand whimpering in the corner. Thats how this club feels to me. It will show affection for anyone that gives it a pat. Secondly, we have already had a big review. It was called the Andrews report. It was shelved because no-one liked it and it told too many home truths. Largely (from my understanding) about CSchwab and Connolly and how they "allegedly" undermined Bailey. Now I don't know the truth of any of that but it sure as hell was like a nuclear explosion at this club. Jackson is nobody's puppet and so some good may come of it but it will probably be another shiitfight. I don't know much but I know this. When you have cancer you to cut it all out otherwise you are a goner. We didn't cut it out last time. Hopefully it aint too late.

Redleg I've not read the Kennett thread so I don't know your stance but I just don't think Don should be telling him, on my behalf, that he's not wanted. He should merely have said he (Kennett) didn't have his support but was welcome to offer himself to the membership and leave it to us. His backing of his mate Geoff (Freeman) doesn't sit well with me either, but so be it. As for the Gardner Board all you say is right but they acted with dignity and I hope Don does the same. I just think it's an insult to say they are having a review and a Board member will carry it out. I think one of the major reasons they failed is their lack of understanding of governance and independence and the decision to get Trotter to evaluate them shows they've learned nothing. Redleg I don't think I know a better MFC supporter than you, hang in.

A very good post Redleg. I could quibble with a few areas where I don't totally agree with you, but that would only detract from what I think is overall a very heartfelt addition to the discussion

He wasn't amazing, but he was able to feed out handpasses from packs, often to a player's advantage (crucial missing component of many MFC players' disposal). Thought he also used his body well in the clearances.

Listen to the whole speech on the website, where you also at the Fed Sq?, Don McLardy twice accepted responsibility for everything....or are you just going by what is in the Age again? There is also a review of the Board being undertaken to see if they have the mix right, Don also said for interested parties to put their name forward by letting him or John Trotter know.......so off you go

You deserve a holiday for this, mjt. I have no idea what your problem is with me or my thoughts on the Board or the Coach. After the Essendon game I said both should go before 2014. I haven't re-said that every week like some on here because I don't feel the need to re-state it every Monday. My view is that Jackson is the one with the AFL endorsement, he is the paratrooper with a mandate, he should manage Neeld's exit the best way he can. Personally, I would wait until he knows the structure he wants in the FD, and can implement it, and at that time moves Neeld on. This will be costly, and may need this Friday's meeting with the AFL for a 'rubberstamp.' As for the Board, I think that from reading the words of McLardy he knows it is time for change and time for him to go. I am happy to wait until seasons end for that and I want it to be similar to how Stynes and McLardy took over from Gardiner: Demons realising their time has come and handing over to new Demons in a bloodless and amicable fashion. Some of the Board will remain and the Freeman/Jackson review is as close as we are ever going to get to a AFL-endorsed/outside Demon-endorsed view on the way forward for the make-up of the Board. I think some of the angst is from a lack of comprehension. My view is hardly controversial: in laymans terms - PREZ, COACH GONE. LEAVE TIMING TO JACKSON. NO OPPOSING TICKET.

As supporters we naturally invested trust in Neeld following his appointmemt back in 2011. We were buoyed by his no-nonsense approach and declaration that he would get us fit, give us a finals-style gameplan and make us the toughest team to play in the competition. These were big words that sounded great. But the talk compared to the reality have been two very different things. No one can argue with that. After yet another 80 point drubbing and absolutely no signs of progress during his year and a half at the helm, he has done little to repay the faith. The more I watch, the more I am saddened and angered that he has stripped our club of flair, confidence and above all else, hope. I spent 2012 backing him, then after that horrific year, was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt heading into 2013. My patience has run out. Time is up.

1. Turnovers 2. Lack of spread 3. Missed tackles 4. Hand passing to stationary teammates 5. Lack of fitness 6. Tom Gillies 7. Mark Neeld

I still care. My son who follows North gave me a huge hug at half time - he gets it. My Collingwood supporter husband didn't dare say anything - he has learnt to keep his mouth shut. I have come home for a sulk but will feel better in the morning as long as I don't read the papers. I will then start thinking about our next match. Its a testing time but I will always hang in there and care.

Without the expansion clubs we would have picked up Tom Lynch instead of Cook. We'd have better mids because they wouldn't have taken the best half dozen from the last two drafts. We would have drafted differently last year without the need to sell pick three to get Hogan (who would not have been available). I am 100% behind Neeld and want him to see out this contract and hopefully get the results next year to earn another one as well. I said well before he came to the club that we were unprofessional and that the people in charge didn't even understand how far off the rest of the league they were. He is exactly what I felt we needed for this to change and has done exactly what I expected him to do. I admit I thought we'd be more competitive by now, but I maintain that we are on the right track and that the results will come. After 50 years, I am willing to cop another season of pain to get the foundation well and truly set so that we can build properly.