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Hogan finished on 24 possessions, 10 marks, 19 kicks and 4 goals, plus 136 DT points. As for not having the same physical advantage at AFL level ? He's not a slow bullocking key forward that is rag dolling skinny kids. He's a big agile aggressive key forward with excellent pace, who can also go into the midfield. His traits translate anywhere. He's a gun and we must get him. Whatever it takes.

He's absolutely destroying it. 16 disposals, 8 marks and 2 goals after 7 minutes of the third quarter. EDIT: I can't keep up! 20 disposals, 9 marks and 3 goals.

The worst is Saturday night when they read tweets out. I'm a Twitter addict, but I don't give a rats what @slapnuts75 thinks about Jamie Elliot.

DARKEST HOURS: 1953 by Whispering Jack So you think it’s tough out there in the AFL and your team is going through some dark hours? Well, it’s happened before and being down doesn’t mean it will stay that way forever. It was just before my time that the Melbourne Football Club was down and seemingly out but times change quickly as we found out in the early 1950’s. Melbourne won its sixth premiership in 1948 with an upset win over hot favourite Essendon in the Grand Final replay. The emotionally spent Bombers had kicked away a certain victory in the drawn Grand Final the week before and an experienced Demons side took full advantage to win the decider by 39 points. However, the triumph of the club's fourth flag in a decade under Frank V "Checker" Hughes quickly dissipated with several key retirements including Hughes himself. Brownlow Medallist Don Cordner, Norm Smith, Jack Mueller and Shane McGrath all followed him out of the door and the club went into freefall. The darkest hour came in 1951 when the club captured the wooden spoon - its first in 28 years. By then the club, coached by former great and four time Bluey Truscott trophy winner Allan La Fontaine, had lost all but six of the 1948 premiership team. The Demons won only one game (against Carlton in Round 6) and finished three wins behind the next to last Hawthorn. In Round 9 they lost to Footscray by 103 points - the club's worst defeat in 32 years. Secretary Jim Cardwell made a mid-season approach to Norm Smith asking him to return to the club as coach but Smith declined. Smith had applied to replace Checker Hughes in 1949 but was beaten to the job then by La Fontaine by a single vote and went on to captain coach Fitzroy. At the end of the 1951 season, the tables were turned and Smith received the nod by a solitary committee vote. Smith had an immediate impact as a coach and the team won six of the first ten games of the 1952 season. It also won the lightning premiership against South Melbourne in May but ran out of steam in the latter half and ultimately finished sixth. The club lost three more 1948 premiership veterans at the end of the year in George Bickford, Geoff Collins and Eddie Jackson who all retired. Despite the improved form, the writing was on the wall. There were to be more hard times and more dark hours to come. The emphasis in 1953 was on youth. The club blooded 19 new players, many of whom went on to be part of a successful era that was just around the corner. One of the first year players introduced during the season was Ken Melville who won the "Bluey" Truscott Trophy. Bob McKenzie was leading goal kicker with 38 goals and Denis Cordner captained the side which dropped to 11th on the ladder, heading only Hawthorn and escaping another wooden spoon only thanks to a late season win over Fitzroy in Round 17. The following is a snapshot of the 1953 season (with thanks to information from that invaluable resource Demonwiki):- Round 1, 1953 Richmond v Melbourne Saturday, 18 April Venue: Punt Road Attendance: 18,000 Richmond 3.2.0 4.4.28 9.6.60 11.7.73 Melbourne 1.3.9 3.8.26 5.8.38 9.13.67 Goal kickers: Dale Anderson 3, Bob McKenzie, Jack Thomson 2*, Alan Krause, Jim Wilson Dale Anderson, Leigh Gloury, Peter Marquis(P) and Ken Melville(P) were the debutants in this game with Anderson scoring a goal on debut. Geoff McGivern and Jack Thomson played their 50th games. Round 2 1953 Melbourne v Carlton Saturday, 2 May Venue: MCG Attendance: 29,204 Melbourne 2.4.16 3.4.22 5.7.37 8.11.59 Carlton 2.2.14 8.4.52 11.9.75 13.12.90 Goal kickers: Bob McKenzie 4, Geoff McGivern 2, Dale Anderson, Don Cameron Don Cameron, Bill Morrow and Maurie Reeves made their debuts with Cameron goaling in his first game. It was the last game for Ballarat footballer Max Orr who returned home at the end of the season but was tragically killed in a car accident in September, 1955. Round 3, 1953 North Melbourne v Melbourne Saturday, 9 May Venue: Arden Street Attendance: 12,000 North Melbourne 2.4.16 6.6.42 9.8.62 12.12.84 Melbourne 2.3.15 7.6.48 9.11.65 11.17.83 Goal kickers: Denis Cordner, Bob McKenzie, Bill Morrow, Maurie Reeves 2, Noel Clarke, Leigh Gloury, Jack Thomson Don Williams (P) made his debut in this game that went right down the wire with the home side winning by the narrowest of margins. Round 4 1953 Melbourne v Footscray Saturday, 16 May Venue: MCG Attendance: 23,727 Melbourne 0.1.1 0.3.3 1.4.10 4.6.30 Footscray 2.5.17 6.15.51 8.17.55 9.21.75 Goal kickers: Ken Christie, Geoff McGivern, Bob McKenzie, Bill Morrow The Demons were mercilessly thrashed on their home turf by the up and coming Bulldogs, failing to score a goal in the first half. Despite the humiliation, a young Ronald Dale Barassi(P) sat out the whole day as a reserve on the bench in what was his first official match as a senior player for the Melbourne Football Club. He was dropped the following week. "From little things, big things grow!" Round 5, 1953 Essendon v Melbourne Saturday, 23 May Venue: Windy Hill Attendance: 9,500 Essendon 2.3.15 4.5.29 5.7.37 6.10.46 Melbourne 2.2.14 5.2.32 6.3.39 9.3.57 Goal kickers: Denis Cordner 3, Bob McKenzie 2, Ken Albiston, Geoff McGivern, Bill Morrow, Mike Woods The eleven point victory over the Bombers broke a seven game losing streak dating back to Round 16 of the previous year. Noel Baker and Geoff Case(P) played their first games. Round 6 1953 Melbourne v Fitzroy Saturday, 30 May Venue: MCG Attendance: 21,205 Melbourne 2.5.17 3.6.24 6.10.46 10.11.71 Fitzroy 3.1.19 7.4.46 10.6.66 12.9.81 Goal kickers: Bob McKenzie 4, Geoff McGivern 2, Ken Albiston, Denis Cordner, Maurie Reeves, Mike Woods Round 7 1953 Melbourne v Geelong Saturday, 6 June Venue: MCG Attendance: 26,254 Melbourne 3.2.20 6.4.40 7.6.48 8.10.58 Geelong 5.3.33 7.6.48 9.12.66 11.16.82 Goal kickers: Denis Cordner, Bob McKenzie, Stuart Spencer 2, Ken Albiston, Mike Woods The Cats were reigning premiers and on their way to another top of the ladder finish but the Demons fought the game out well. Round 8, 1953 South Melbourne v Melbourne Saturday, 13 June Venue: Lake Oval Attendance: 22,565 South Melbourne 1.3.9 5.6.36 7.8.50 11.11.77 Melbourne 1.5.11 2.8.20 4.15.39 9.17.71 Goal kickers: Bob McKenzie 3, Noel Clarke, Geoff McGivern 2, Denis Cordner, Mike Woods The Demons again paid dearly for their poor kicking for goal in a game in which Lance Arnold was reported for kicking but subsequently cleared by the Tribunal. Round 9, 1953 Melbourne v Collingwood Saturday, 20 June Venue: MCG Attendance: 27,175 Melbourne 0.0.0 3.0.18 3.4.22 7.6.48 Collingwood 3.2.20 4.3.27 8.5.53 9.9.63 Goal kickers: Bob McKenzie 3, Noel Clarke, Ralph Lane, Geoff McGivern, Stuart Spencer Despite a goalless opening term, the Demons pushed their traditional rivals and the ultimate premiers to 15th points. Ralph Lane, who later made a name for himself as an administrator with the VFL, kicked his first goal. Round 10, 1953 Melbourne v Hawthorn Saturday, 27 June Venue: MCG Attendance: 11,993 Melbourne 1.0.6 5.5.35 8.8.56 10.14.74 Hawthorn 8.2.50 10.3.63 12.6.78 16.6.102 Goal kickers: Stuart Spencer 6, Peter Schofield 2, Ken Albiston Bob McKenzie Despite Stuart Spencer's six goal heroics, the Demons were unable to overcome their fellow cellar dwellers, the Hawks, who overran them with a brilliant opening term on the MCG. Melbourne struck back and got to within a goal in the final quarter but Hawthorn booted the last four goals of the game to win comfortably. It was Terry Gleeson(P)'s first game while former Tiger Peter Schofield made his debut for the club. Schofield's stay at the club was brief but he went on to become a very good player at North Melbourne. Gleeson, the brother of Brownlow Medallist Brian Gleeson (St. Kilda) played in the club's 1956 premiership team. Round 11, 1953 St. Kilda v Melbourne Saturday, 4 July Venue: Junction Oval Attendance: 12,000 St. Kilda 6.2.38 7.4.46 9.6.60 11.7.73 Melbourne 2.2.14 4.10.34 5.14.44 8.21.69 Goal kickers: Bob McKenzie 3, Ken Albiston 2, Geoff McGivern, Maurie Reeves, Peter Schofield Ron Barassi finally got his chance to play and even had the opportunity to win the game for his club with a clutch goal in the final term but, like many of his teammates on the day, he was off target. Bob Constable made his debut. Round 12, 1953 Melbourne v Richmond Saturday, 11 July Venue: MCG Attendance: 19,402 Melbourne 6.3.39 7.6.48 8.8.56 11.9.75 Richmond 1.1.7 6.3.39 8.9.57 11.9.75 Goal kickers: Peter Schofield 5, Ken Albiston 3, Denis Cordner, Jack Thomson, Jim Wilson The Demons blew away a good start to scrape up two points for a draw against Richmond. Ron McKenzie played his only game for the club. Round 13, 1953 Carlton v Melbourne Saturday, 25 July Venue: Princes Park Attendance: 16,367 Carlton 0.5.5 4.13.37 8.17.65 12.24.96 Melbourne 4.4.28 5.6.36 8.7.55 10.10.70 Goal kickers: Geoff McGivern, Bob McKenzie, Peter Schofield 2, Tony Bull, Ken Christie, Bob Constable, Denis Cordner The Blues overcame a slow start to demolish the Demons in the final term. It was Tony Bull's first game and he scored a goal on debut. Round 14, 1953 Melbourne v North Melbourne Saturday, 1 August Venue: MCG Attendance: 13,768 Melbourne 2.4.16 6.6.42 6.7.43 9.13.67 North Melbourne 2.6.18 3.9.27 6.1652 8.16.64 Goal kickers: Bob McKenzie 4, Peter Schofield 2, Frank Adams, Denis Cordner, Jack Thomson The Demons avenged their narrow Round 2 loss to North Melbourne by turning the tables on the Kangaroos and winning by three points at the MCG. It was the first game for red-headed speedster Frank "Bluey" Adams(P) who goaled on debut. Round 15, 1953 Footscray v Melbourne Saturday, 8 August Venue: Western Oval Attendance: 18,075 Footscray 3.2.20 7.3.45 12.6.78 14.14.98 Melbourne 4.1.25 4.3.27 5.7.37 9.7.61 Goal kickers: Frank Adams 3, Peter Schofield 2, Ralph Lane, Geoff McGivern, Bob McKenzie, Jack Thomson After an even first quarter, the Bulldogs held sway but the young Demons were starting to show signs of promise for the future. Adams with three goals was impressive. Round 16, 1953 Melbourne v Essendon Saturday, 15 August Venue: MCG Attendance: 25,543 Melbourne 0.4.4 3.6.24 7.8.50 8.9.57 Essendon 4.6.30 5.7.37 9.9.63 12.10.82 Goal kickers: Dale Anderson 3, Noel Clarke 2, Frank Adams, Denis Cordner, Bob McKenzie The Demons were unable to replicate their early season form against the Bombers who kicked 3 goals 4 behinds before Melbourne even scored. They did show some resistance to close to within seven points in the third quarter but the Bombers kicked away to win by 25 points. The great John Coleman kicked five for Essendon despite a creditable performance from Demon full back Lance Arnold. Round 17, 1953 Fitzroy v Melbourne Saturday, 22 August Venue: Brunswick Street Attendance: 7,500 Fitzroy 2.4.16 2.7.19 6.10.46 6.13.49 Melbourne 3.3.21 5.8.38 6.8.44 9.10.64 Goal kickers: Dale Anderson 4, Bob McKenzie 2, Denis Cordner, Peter Marquis, Jack Thomson Melbourne came from behind at three quarter time to overrun Fitzroy in the final term and record a 15 point victory which enabled it to avoid a second wooden spoon in three years. Round 18, 1953 Geelong v Melbourne Saturday, 29 August Venue: Kardinia Park Attendance: 18,124 Geelong 4.4.28 6.8.44 11.11.77 16.14.110 Melbourne 1.3.9 4.4.28 5.6.36 8.8.56 Goal kickers: Dale Anderson 3, Ken Albiston 2, Denis Cordner, Bob McKenzie, Stuart Spencer Geelong secured top spot with an easy win over the Demons who showed little resistance. Despite their top place finish, the Cats were only weeks away from losing their crown to Collingwood and within a few years of ending their dynasty. It was hard to believe that of the two combatants on the day, it would be Melbourne that would not only make the following year's grand final but would also play off in another six after that and become the most dominant force in the game's history. (P) denotes the player subsequently played in a Melbourne premiership team. Ladder W L D % Pts Geelong 15 3 0 143.3 60 Collingwood 14 4 0 123.5 56 Footscray 13 5 0 136.5 52 Essendon 13 5 0 129.9 52 ------------------------------ Carlton 10 8 0 107.6 40 Fitzroy 10 8 0 85.0 40 North Melbourne 9 9 0 107.8 36 South Melbourne 9 9 0 104.7 36 St. Kilda 5 13 0 68.2 20 Richmond 3 14 1 81.3 14 Melbourne 3 14 1 80.1 14 Hawthorn 3 15 0 68.5 12 Lightning Premiership - South Melbourne 1.2.8 defeated Melbourne 1.1.7 Best and Fairest 1st Ken Melville 2nd Denis Cordner 3rd Stuart Spencer Other Awards Consistent Player - John Beckwith and Stuart Spencer (shared) Under 19's Leading Goal kicker - (Jeff Crouch** 42 goals) The Under 19's won their premiership. * No, not the famous actor. ** Yes – that was Jeff Crouch who later became a famous VFL field umpire. POSTSCRIPT How bleak were things for Demon fans at the end of season 1953? They had changed their coach and were well into a rebuilding process at the end of 1951, had shown signs of progress the following year but now were on the bottom of the heap. It was surely the darkest hour and yet, as we were soon to discover, it was also close to the dawn.

I short changed a blind old lady $20 bucks today to kick in to our drafting fund. How do you lke them apples for predatory. Just call me The Lion King.

I have been barracking for the Dees since 1946. When my father and Uncle returned from the war all the ex servicemen in Kyabram decided to start up a football team for mainly ex service men in the second grade Goulburn Valley league called the Kyabram Imperials and there colours were Red and Blue and the only VFL club to have the same colours was Melbourne and i have followed them ever since and will do so until I die. Although I now live in Brisbane and can't get to the gee any more in the late forties early fifties when living in Melbourne I used to follow them to all the old grounds and can remember all those beaut grand finals we won over that era and I hope tp see at least one more before I die up the mighty Demons

Saturday nights have been so painful this year, first of all The Scum played most Saturday nights, on top of that we had to hear the shizen spouted by the worst commentators ever assembled. For 3/4 of the scum games we had to listen about all the shizen about 'the weapon'. Then we have to hear how Ahmed Saad lives in a garage above grant thomas' house, They pick up the most ridiculous fact about a player and then run with it for 4 quarters. FOR F$%K's sake it wasn't funny the first time. Then there is Darcy, More sense has come from Homer Simpsons mouth when he is drunk then comes out of this guys mouth.

How about Gysberts and Cook?

There used to be a facility on Foxtel where for certain games you could watch the game with a wide angle view . You could also mute the commentary and just have the crowd noise . Essentially you could configure it so you could simulate 'Being at the game' - it was great . After a time you got used to not having commentary . I just don't get why commentators have to describe the game like it's radio . They never shut up and most of what they've got to say is puerile and unnecessary . We are miles behind the rest of the world with regards to sports broadcasting . Who needs close ups ? It's not like we know whether a free kick is going to be paid correctly (thanks to Giesh) (he's been the Umpires Director since 1999 btw!) We don't need a play by play commentary when we're at the games (although every now and then I cop one of those 'types' that like to commentate at the games - oddballs) . The commentary should complement the telecast , not dominate it . I've often heard Richie Benaud talk about how it's often best to let the action speak for itself . I believe he started his broadcasting career at the BBC and is a masterful commentator . Think he's going around again this summer . Imagine Richie commentating the footy - "Good kick, that"

I've given up caring. It's his fifth year, he'll be 22, he has no more excuses. I've been soft on him so far, but I'll be watching his output closely in 2013. It's time to stand up. He doesn't have to be the best player we've got, but he better have a crack. I want to see courage in the air.

I am hanging out for the party when we win our flag. The prospect of Dees winning a flag is as farfetched as any other sporting drought, and when the drought breaks it will be a feeling the supporters of Hawthorn/Essendon/etc (successful clubs) will never feel. The ultimate feat which we've been waiting 50 miserable years for. I don't know how old I'll be, but I will be one happy bugger. So that's the reason I support and will never support anyone else. I don't give a [censored] about any other sporting team in the world, just this one.

She didn't have long to go DC.Money couldn't buy back her youth. So I feel pretty good about it.

what sort of idiot are you.Its our National Anthem ffs. If you dont understand why your OP is an absolute disgrace then you ought to go live on Nauru...or anythwere else for that matter

Society is to blame.

I still can't get my head around the fact it is 2012 and they don't even broadcast their footy in [censored] HD!

What needs to happen to fix this is that AFL needs to allow Foxtel to televise their own broadcast of the same game. 7 has no competition so they treat their audience like fools. Just by allowing competition they'll have to lift their game. I also LOVE the idea of a broadcast without commentary with just crowd noise. I wish Foxtel would bring that back.

This is a very interesting thread, very thought provoking. A few issues I'll address; 1 - If I knew we would never ever win a flag again I would probably give up. I watch in the hope of seeing the team develop, challenge for and then win a flag. If I knew the whole thing was futile what would be the point? 2 - I don't understand people that don't watch games other than MFC games, for a couple of reasons. Firstly I love the game and love watching it played at the highest level which for most of my life has not included games which MFC have competed in. Secondly, I love the competition as a whole and the jockeying for places betweenall teams on the ladder, how they are developing, the different game styles they are implementing and how the game is evolving. I love watching other individual players in the competition, how they are progressing and/or dominating, how they compare to MFC - although admittedly this has waned in recent years, particularly this year mainly due to the over officiating and tactics used by the coaches to take all instinct out of the game (or perhaps just because MFC are currently rubbish). But I still love the best matches, the Geelong/Hawthorn match a couple of months back with Hawkins kicking the winner after the siren was an absolute beauty and had me buzzing especially the last quarter. 3 - I've seen a few people from interstate say they have never changed sides despite living interstate for many years, particularly those in Queensland/NSW where there have been new teams created in a non-football environment. Obviously the data is skewed as those posting here are obviously MFC supporters so there may be others who did change or lose interest but I've always wondered whether the fact that MFC has such a limited supporter/financial base plays a role in these decisions? Perhaps even sub-consciously? Because I feel supporters of clubs like Essendon or Carlton who live on the Gold Coast for instance may be more likely to change allegiance as they don't feel the same obligation to continue supporting the club as they know the club will be fine without them. Due to the MFC's position I feel more obligated to continue supporting, buying premium memberships, turning up to games I know we will lose even when I just can't be stuffed and would rather watch on the couch etc because I know that as a smaller supporter base it is up to me to turn up to twilight games against interstate sides otherwise it will contribute to poor crowds, poor income, poor media coverage etc whereas supporters of bigger clubs I assume wouldn't feel the same obligation as they know someone else will pick up the slack if they don't turn up. I guess the biggest consolation I take from being a MFC supporter and knowing there is no other option is that I am a big fan of Nietzschean philosophy and knowing that nothing in life worth anything is easy and the biggest triumphs come from the biggest struggles - in fact the struggle is often where the joy comes from - which kind of contradicts my first point however I guess there is a difference between the struggle of revolt (as described by Camus) and the futile struggle (as portrayed in the tale of Sisyphus.)

Please. Keeping an AA ruckman until they are 32 and giving the hardest working bloke in this shizen team three years is hardly constitute a cause celebre for our poor list management. And leave me out of your emotional outbursts.

132 rumours and 187 pieces of speculation. Well that is what I heard and what I think could happen.

Have they run out of salary cap room? How could that happen, unless they were paying someone way too much?

Dec. 1964 was a very good month. Belzebub59 moved to Australia, Martin Luther King Ir won the Nobel Peace prize, Ian Chappell made his test cricket debut, and yours truly was born. I was born less than 3 months after our last premiership. Great timing. I was the only child at my primary school in 1970 that barracked for Melbourne. The rest seemed to be either Carlton, or Richmond, which may explain my hate to this day. And I did it tough, because we were terrible and I was one of those troublesome little blonde kids that would most definitely stick up for his club. I had Greg Parke's no. 26 on my back, but my two all time favourite players are Flower and Wells. I really enjoyed meeting Wells at our 150 celebrations at Crown Casino in 2008. In my opinion he should have been in the TOC ahead of Todd Viney. Playing in a premiership at Carlton may not have helped his cause. I also met Jimmy again, who'd sold me private health insurance at my home 20 years earlier. In one guise or another I've been posting on Demonland since Nov. 2002. I was 37 at the time with two boys under 3 and turn 50 the year after next. The years go quickly. My two favourite memories are being at Footscray with my Brother in round 22, 1987 and Todd Viney's goal in the opening seconds at the G a week later when I knew we were going to win our first final in 23 years. But my love for this club isn't unconditional. It never has been. I don't own a crystal ball, but if I knew that the club wouldn't win a flag in my lifetime I'd cease now. The only thing that matters to me and keeps me interested is the hope and chance of one day seeing a flag. Nothing else. I love Aussie Rules footy, so I enjoy games every week. I don't have to be watching the MFC to enjoy games of footy. I also won't forever be a punching bag for a poorly run club. I'm not saying they are, btw. But going back into millions of debt, etc. is no longer an option for me. If a club isn't financial they won't be able to compete on a level playing field, or win a flag. And constantly making poor decisions, or judgments is also no longer an option. Right now I won't share my tipping point and I won't necessarily have just the one, but I do have them. Many won't agree with me and I respect that. This is a very personal matter. And I wouldn't lambaste anyone that disagrees with me. And it's not about being weak, or not being able to be there for the long haul. As with many others, I think I've proved my resilience. But with anything in life I have a line in the sand. Enough about me, let's talk about you. Will you unconditionally drag your sorry arse through the gates of the G no matter how the club is run, or what they dish up, for whatever timeline it happens to be ? Or, like me, do you have a tipping point where enough is enough ? Will you be unconditional for decades, because that is how you're wired, or is there definitely a time frame where you'd jump off this toxic ride - should you consider it such ? With apologies to Rangey (is he on holiday ?) I've started a poll.

New Zealands is about rooting them so weve been eclipsed already if we do that.

What's wrong with a song about stealing sheep?

I'm pretty sure that Hogan put his hand up as a must for us to draft him today. 24 touches 10 marks and 4 goals.

With two weeks to run until the start of the free agency period and in the absence of any concrete evidence of anyone going anywhere, the HS has reported that Melbourne utility/Casey list clogger/Demonland official mascot has been told that he will be shot out of a cannon. The decision was made by HS football writers, in consultation with the AFL's website, who feel that it will provide adequate space filler in the 'Department of Trades' next to the bombshells that Malthouse is looking for some new assistants (Rumour Rater: 'Maybe') and that Nathan Jones' hair is naturally receding (Rumour Rater: 'He's Gawn!'). And anyway, it will tie in nicely with the 'This is Greatness' theme. Tim Rogers has been lined up for the ad. Matthew Bate and Lyndon Dunn are reportedly disappointed that they didn't get the call. Already, Demonland has been lit up with calls to lock the thread, lest it get any responses, or provokes a poll.

Calm Down WALTER.!!!

Predatory has nothing to do with drafting it is about trading. Who have West Coast, Essendon and Adelaide landed via trades that makes them better than us? Prismall? Tambling? Sydney and Hawthorn have been very good at this but otherwise the clubs you mentioned I would argue have done nothing better than how we secured Clark.

Wasn't going after Clark predatory enough for you? All the naysayers just need to relax a little bit.

I was born in 93 so I haven't seen a lot of success. I was at the 2000 Grand Final but was very young. Even though I have no reason to be passionate about the club who has not given me much to be passionate about I still have so much love for this club. I hope other teens my age that support the Dees have the same amount of passion and love for this club as I do. I WILL never stop supporting this club especially while they're down, I will be sitting in my usual spot as I have for many years some what cheering on the boys. Go Dees!

I really like Martin, but give me a dominant 10 year key CHF over any skillful mid.

I'd take Hogan over martin. We need Hogan and a player like him doesn't come around that often. Martin is very good but if we did take him we would have to pick up another KPP and hope they fill out and develop.

Mitch Clark's Lament I'm real sorry ...... Mitch Clark You took a stab in the dark You chose the demons to make your mark You must be watchin' Freo thinkin' "what the f@#$" Could of had September action on the park With a team run by a Lyon's bark With more wind in its sails than the Cutty Sark Instead your floatin' with a team on a Noah's Ark Fighting for survival on seas so dark Searchin' for your partner in the forward arc I wish you more than an ounce of luck A thousand apologies to you...Mitch Clark

Would be shattered if Jared left. I am a huge fan. Think people are undervaluing him on here.

Ridiculous comments on this thread. All these heroes who think they know more than the club and then will flame anyone who disagrees. Do we know how much jordie is being paid? How many people bagging jordie bagged jones three years ago. Hint all of you ( as there were only about three people defending him.) How many people can comment on jamar injuries? How many can comment on his contribution to training? How many of you same fools would have been screaming If he left to go to another club. Hint you will all claim that you would be happy to see him go but everyone knows how you would have been keyboard warriors if he had of left Before mindlessly bagging engage your brain

J. Watts into the Sunday Footy show handball grand final surely puts this debate to rest

The commentators are terrible - put them in a circle and each one is worse than the one next to him (though BT has to be centre circle). But I can turn the sound off (or just laugh at it). But I can't do anything about the pictures. I am sick of the close-ups as soon as a player has a mark or free. I want to see what options the player has around him, not whether he remembered to shave that morning. And the close-ups from ground level would be fine for replays, but after a while they leave you wondering which way each team is actually kicking. With such an emphasis on close-ups I sometimes wonder if the Directors are pandering to women who like to perve at men's bodies rather than people who want to understand what is happening in the actual game. (I thought the camera angles in the matches played in WA are a lot better for a wide-angled view which doesn't reduce the players to single-pixel dots.)

Both are still maturing as footballers, they both have different responsibilities, both need to realise the benefits of using their bodies physically. They have both shown decent glimpses of what is to come in their development. They have both had influences on games. They both will become good footballers for their respective sides. Both clubs got it right.

I'd blame Watts and his Carbon Tax.

My position, FWIW, it that I am a Dee for life but that doesn't mean I'll stick around forever. There will be no other teams, no other codes. But I will not turn up week in/week out to watch garbage. I will not pay my hard-earned if I think the club is being run by monkeys. I'd argue that all relationships are conditional - my affection for Melbourne is permanent but I'll not stick around if all I get is disappointment and heartache.

Exactly right Macca and that's one of my pet hates as well - I can see what's happening, I don't need Bwuce to just call players names out as they get a possession (Kreuzer, Judd to Muuurphy, handballs to Carazzo back to Judd who kicks it down to Waite etc etc). The commentators as you say should complement by explaining to me what I can't see on the screen in front of me. Don't treat your viewers like idiots and don't be scared to educate them. That's one of the reason's I didn't mind the channel 9 coverage when they had it - say what you will about Brereton and his demeanour at least he actually tried to break down the play and explain to the layman what strategies and tactics the teams were trying to implement. It's one of the reasons I also like Lloyd as a commentator.

I liked Brett Kirk as a player but [censored] me, he talks some garbage at times. He always looks extremely awkward and nervous. C7's commentary team as a whole are just embarrassing. Still like Bruce and Denn on Sundays though.

Yeah I think they did, but hey....this is a professional game, if your gonna have video based decisions then ffs get a bloody hawk eye, a la tennis type technology, that definitively can call it one way or the other or don't have it at all!!

Luke Darcy drives me mad!! That was not a goal in the first Q. They got it right.

Martin is value. But you've got to give something to get something. Assuming the rumours are true of course...

Fourth in B&F, plus the coach's award. Still think Jordie isn't worth a three year deal? Obviously the FD rate him!

I've supported the Demon over sixty years. Too late for anything else now.

Unless they merge with the Nazi Party mine probably is. If the place falls into disarray again and the fans do nothing to stop it then we deserve what we get.

Geez you're annoying. Regardless, I don't see what difference it would make to show us a hollywood style build-up speech. I heard Malthouse talking about motivational speeches in one of his guest commentary roles and he talked about them as being very temporary and don't help you once that initial boost of motivation fades. He said you're better off calming them down and then calmly telling them what needs to be done. You see the same thing in a lot of the great UFC coaches, calm and collected and plainly stating what is required. You're placing your own subjective feelings on to a group of people you can only see the back of in flashes of about 3 seconds. So you're either trolling or an overly-emotional idiot.