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You should understand that: - we had to make our intentions clear, since Adelaide were trying to engineer a situation to claim him themselves? - the draft pick we take him with is tied to our finishing position, so it's only down to our on-field incompetence that we must now use a high pick - there would be no way to invest resources in him before drafting, accelerating his development, without making our intentions clear - it still remains to be seen which pick we need to use on Viney - situations can still be engineered that would work out very well for us - if he's worth it, we take him. So what you're really worried about is paying the right price for something great. The rules have been changed so the F/S landscape simply doesn't allow for cheap deals like the Cats have benefitted from. - if he's definitely not, we don't. And cash in on another team's bluff. Considering the strength of this draft, and crystal ball gazing required in drafting, we may very well have lost nothing if we do in the end have to take Viney with pick 3. It happens every year that kids taken around pick 20, on reflection should've gone top 5. And finally - he is EXACTLY what we need and what our supporters yearn for in a player. Not skills, not running capacity, not marking, but unparalleled hardness and competitiveness. Viney will set the tone like no other. For MFC, he is worth whatever we pay for him (and a lot of other clubs, at that).

The head is sacrosanct. It's that simple. Wojcinski had a duty of care to Viney, that if he had the option to tackle he should, and if he decides to bump, that he must ensure he doesn't make head high contact. He did, so he goes.

Tough, scary kid.

Why is there an assumption that Viney isn't in the best 3 players in the country? From what I've heard he is one of the top 3, with Stringer and Whitfield. With those 3 being completely different styles of player, it isn't unreasonable that he could be pick 1. If we end up with picks 4 and 5 then Viney could well be a steal. But it'll all become clearer as the year goes on.

Yeah, we all say that from time to time, but we also all see opposition players by themselves that have slipped out and have essentially been 'frontrunning' and we wonder where any Demon was - they were sucked into the contest immediately preceding that. 'Frontrunning' gets a bad rap, but it only gets a bad rap from me when the player doesn't work back aswell as forward. But the instincts of a Cale Morton to get 'cheap' possies is so valuable. It takes hard work and smarts to find the footy in space and rack them up the way Dane Swan does... It's one thing I wish we appreciated more as fans.

Well I will still go to all the games in melbourne and back in jan I got cheap flights to darwin so Im venturing there. Im writing this season off and just dont get fussed anymore. I see this is a year to learn Neeld's game plan and if we are still in the same position this time next year then I will be worried. But I think next year we will be ok. I see this as a learning season. I have faith in the coach.

I don't agree with the idea of trading them - pick 34 and 35 don't thrill me and that's what we'd be looking at. Like them or not, they're our big bodied, senior players. Play them until they either pull their fingers out, or get passed by someone better.

Just a heads up that I understand the game this week will be the ABC televised game. If so, it will be the first time this year after seven rounds that the Scorpions will be featuring either on television or radio despite the fact that they're 5-1). Of course, it makes the day an easy one for me because more people will be posting their views and the scores and I can relax a bit

He'll miss 4 weeks of AFL/VFL footy. The VFL took into account how many weeks of AFL he'lll miss. They knew that give him 2 weeks was in effect 4 weeks. If he'd have had a 4 week suspecion, due to byes/state games etc, he would have missed 7 weeks of footy. So he's essentially been given 4 weeks, which seems pretty fair to me

As a distinct possibility as a sore ass after a night of red Thai curry

Go the biff

rpfc i just had the same idea, run both ns and rf league, but the top teams from each league have a champions league, could be onto something there, would be no keeper players in the champions league though, there's no way that all the teams wouldnt have some of the same players.

witch hunt moloney it's a joke

So you "call it when you see it" - "sometimes" ? Gotcha.

Thanks for the report very much appreciated from us over here in the west. Grimes was in the SEN studios with KB and Cam Mooney this morning as part of the membership drive. Also good to hear Neeld this morning speaking positiveley about Jack Watts & LJ. His comments re Wattsy were interesting, he made a point of saying some boys from day 1 of being drafted have the agression and intensity and others take a couple of seasons to get up to this level. The way he put it across was he believed it would happen.

I agree with you but it's harder to change the older you get. I believe these two will get it and will have a good season. it just gets up my nose that people write them off so often and want them traded at any cost.

And remember, it's The Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL © that we are talking about. If it is a close call between two teenagers and one happens to be: - a 'brick wall with eyes' as one recruiter has said, - a tough, hard mid - had two years in the AFL system - has a last name Viney ...I will take Jack Viney.

Reading some of the comments in this thread make me wnat to poke my eyes out. I only hope soem of it in jest. Before questioning the recruiting of Jack, where he shoud be taken etc. consider the following: Recriuters are not idiots and we were never going to be able to bluff on him. He has been in the system for years and has already been targetted by Adelaide. Jack is worth whatever pick we are forced to use on him, not the one we would all like to take him at. Other clubs are already colluding to ensure we take him with a high pick, fact! Who in their right mind here would seriously say we should pass on Jack with the prospect that as an early developer he could be tearing us a new one in 12 months What if we did pass and ended up with a slow developer (Jack Watts, Cale Morton anyone)? What sort of fallout do you think there would be from the supporter base if one of the last two sceanrios happened? We're gonna have to take Jack with pick 2 or 3 (the way we are going at the moment). We need to get over it.

I tell you what. I'd rather use any pick we have available to us on Jack Viney, and see him lead from the front and deliver his already proven aggression and toughness for the Melbourne Football Club, and continue the legacy his dad left, over drafting it on a guy who apparently has 'natural talent' and then in turn doesn't have a break out game for a number of years, whilst sucking the [censored] of the club and then the media scrutinizing us on picking them whilst letting Viney slip through our fingers. Even if Jack isn't rated top 3 in this years draft, with his body, skills, and passion for the club I can see him being a better player when playing for the demons and circumstances will show he should have been rated number 1 pick as the season continues. I guarantee it.

Our "good" contested ball winning stat is actually misleading due to the fact we commit so many numbers to winning the contested ball in one area of the ground we leave the rest of it wide open.

Keep Bail, Bate & Sylvia in. I completely do not understand the anti-Martin movement on here. He has been one of our best/consistent players over the last couple of years, definitely deserves a spot over Sellar. Time to unleash Couch.

Why does no-one seem to mention the positive impact of having Jack around our club, using our facilities, training, getting to know the gameplan and his teammates, for a good 18 months BEFORE he gets drafted? IMO thats worth declaring early that we were going to take him. If anyone seriously thinks we would 'call their bluff' and NOT take Viney they are delusional

Don't think your efforts aren't greatly appreciated though, KC.

Bingo. And a team like Essendon would see his worth as much higher than even we would. Time to cash in before it is too late.

The binge drinking episode was the biggest load of horsepoop I have ever seen Firstly, complete lies were told about Moloney pissing on a bar, he was vindicated for this Honestly, I was furious at the club when they took the VC of him, it was a non issue for mine And don't imply [censored] like you just have with your second sentence, ludicrous

Mate....As I posted in another thread look at the stat for both these player last year.....Sylvia has played one game under Neeld after coming back from a serious back injury but now must be traded. Moloney lead most of the stats last year and won the B&F and now must be traded. They are not afforded the same rights to come to terms with a new game plan as other are afforded ie should be starring every week. I am not a defeatist I am a realist. You just don't get rid of experienced players and put kids in. The young kids have to learn and be protected when coming in. Rember Jnr Mac?????

What ? If that was actually the case I'd have no problem, but your history suggests otherwise. Knowing that you never once queried the Gardner led Board in its 4 years when there was $5mil worth of debt and Daniher had to coach with "limited resources" (your own words) I consider it a bit rich that you now refer to yourself as someone that "calls it as you see it". Having said that, I have empathy with the position you were in. But it does make me bristle a bit that now when the restraints are off you seem only to eager to have a swipe at the incumbents. The current Board has wiped out the debt and given the Football Department the resources Daniher never enjoyed. Despite your stony silence one can only wonder what you really thought of the previous Board.

The same people bitching on here that we committed early and may pay slight overs are the same people that would have been bitching if we had not committed and he had gone to Adelaide in the mini-draft. Would I love to get him dirt cheap for a second pick?. Absolutely, and we should do whatever in power to make that happen. However if we have to use a pick as low as 3 then so be it. He is exactly what we need. There may be better players drafted but we can be sure as any that our pick will be worth it.

He is rated top 5. He can't miss. He is driven, talented and harder than a cats head. We already know how hard he will work to become the best he can be. Not sure about the heart burn from some here.

To any melbourne fan who has not yet got a membership please show your passion for this club by getting a membership today. We have had a hard start to the year but mark neeld is showing our players what a strong club is made off. If BIG JIM was still with us we all know he would be very proud to know that all demons fans belive in his vision for our great club to get 40,000 members. Im sure some fans dont have the money to buy a membership but im sure you can talk to the club to get a 3 game membership or do what my family does and get a direct debit membership, I have a Trident membership and im not Rich but when you pay $35 a month it's not so hard and if you got just a normal membership it would be maybe $20 a month. And it is cheaper for Concessions card holders. So please all true demon fans get on board now because if you want to be the best the more money and members you have the stronger your club will be. So dont sit back and wait for the good time's make sure you can say when the chips were down i was there for the club i love. That shows a true fan of the red and blue in my eyes. We all know the demons will have there day soon. 1300 DEMONS OR GO TO THE MFC WEBSITE.

Most here seem to have the view that Moloney and Sylvia aren't great but because they're better options that those with less than 4 years experience we should stick with them. Both are very limited when they don't have the ball. Both have a history of off-field issues. My concern (particularly for those with an interest in the much discussed 'club culture') is what damage is being done whilst they're both still on the list. What will Blease, Gysberts and Taggert continue to learn from these senior role-models?

Wouldn't even waste our time asking. No chance.

Yeah I saw that clip. Was insightful and no doubt players will be shown that footage over and over again. Its great to see that a simple thing of 2 metres apart on 2 men led to a goal to Geelong. That clip actually gave me confidence that it is in fact about educating our players more. It does however show how far behind our players are though. Giving me hope for the future.

I enjoyed his commentary. He certainly was insightful, but I'm also weary of the fact he was quite pro-MFC, hence perhaps a little biased our way.

We need players that set the right example on and off the field. We need senior players who will role-model the necessary gut-running with and without the ball. We need senior players that respond when challenged. We don't need senior players purely because they're senior.

gotta say, i didn't have a big problem with the bump other than the fact he broke his jaw. the punch was a cheap shot though.

Demonland used player sale. Hurry! Last days. All players with 100 games must go . Weve given them knowledge-you get them at their peak! Get in Fast -This youth hysteria will not last . Out the door they go. Runabouts,4 wheel drives ,tanks and smooth operators all under the one roof! Some with complete history ,some without. Check out the added extras- Some hardly ever driven! Demonland Crazy May Sale # # buyer beware-product may actually be ready to be peform at top level consistently .

I'm sorry, but I don't blindly believe someone is a superstar and should be championed for subpar performances, just because he plays for the club I support. Context: Brownlow and B&F votes whilst playing for a club in the doldrums where he has very little competition for those votes. Where it is easy to look good, with all the dross around him, for doing one thing very very well. It also says nothing for his deficiencies. Unfortunately there are many, and the things he was doing well, he no longer is, and even if he was, it is not enough in my book. Ever heard of an average girl with an ugly friend? When a team performs as poorly as it did last year, and one player was the best of a bad lot, and wasn't even consistently good, but rather looked good only against poor opposition, then I don't put much value on it.

In veritas Gluteus Maximux status quo

We need senior players. Keep them both.

more latin - this place is going places!

You're quite right. But the point was valid. For the last 4 years I've been watching two Melbourne players tackle one opponent leaving the second opponent free for the hand off. For those who didn't hear Mick Malthouse on the weekend, he said this was a 'trust' issue, meaning that at the moment Melbourne players don't trust their team mates to effect a proper tackle so go in to help. This just allows the opposition a free player. When players start to 'trust' each other, Mick says this won't happen. When Malthouse uses the word 'trust' he's not talking about honesty but effectiveness and I thought he made the point clearly and appropriately. And when Neeld talks about building foundations I now understand better what he means.

Despite the fact Moloney and Sylvia have both been around for years, under Neeld's tutelage it is too early a call for trade talk regarding these two. One a demoted leader certainly and the other an unfulfilled talent, but players can blossom under a new coach. Who do we trade for - even more draft picks and make our list, already crying out for more mature hard bodies even younger and more inexperienced? How Moloney is responding to his demotion will be having an impact internally and he has been regarded as a great clubman off-field to this point. A flat track bully perhaps, but until he is depth at best, he has a role to play. Sylvia has had an interrupted pre-season and his season coming off a bad injury has only just begun. An inconsistent and overall a disappointing career to date, however under a new coach, his undoubted talents may still be realised. The tools are there. Again a strong body with some burst speed, and a thumping kick with potential to be a game changer should under a new coach be given a further opportunity to shine. He will never be a genuine leader but I think he still has some precocious unharnessed talent to unleash. This is not to say either are indispensible, but I reckon they have this season to show the new coach they can play his way and shine - and it is still only upcoming Round 7 in a struggling team still learning the new way. Our team is suffering badly due to a dearth of good leadership in the 25-30 age bracket. With Green and Davey flagging badly at this stage, we need the remainder to stand up. Trading for good leaders in this age bracket is not easy because they are either in their prime and giving their current club everything, and therefore likely unobtainable or over the odds unaffordable. Or they are borderline best 22, like Brad Miller was, and will add nothing on-field in terms of ability, although I do think Miller was a good leader off-field. There are signs that some players are turning the corner under Neeld - Jones has been our most consistent player and has gone up a cog, Morton may be just starting to get it, even Matthew Bate, still no worldbeater, is a bit better this year than last in a different role. Neeld is making players earn their place and not gifting games which can be a challenge without making wholesale changes every week. Even Sylvia, straight into the ones sure, was still made to serve his club suspension after injury and was the sub in his first game back. We are all impatient - but I don't think anyone's cards are marked yet and all still have the opportunity to show enough by season's end that they can operate under the Neeld mandate which is still well and truly in class. And that includes Brent Moloney and Colin Sylvia.

Thanks Cale but this is a fans forum .We believe you.

Nothing like getting ahead of yourself as a dees supporter...

Yes, my interest in posting on this site has move beyond debating at length the merits of various players. Whether Watts becomes elite or is merely A grade is a moot point which others think important to debate and win. But their opinions will have no impact on the outcome and many are uninformed. Good pub talk but little substance. But unlike the development of players the members select the Board. If we get it wrong we just hurt ourselves and our history of selection is pretty poor because most don't understand the Board's role or importance. I like Don, I've met him personally on several occasions and he has the best of intentions and is a passionate MFC man and football follower. But he heads our club, makes strategic decisions and has a huge impact on our success or otherwise. It's on that level that I comment. I note with interest that in your post you've potted me but not addressed the issues. I think I understand why. As RR has pointed out, last year showed a failure of Corporate Governance where the Board were seduced by the smell of liniment and were (initially) influenced by the soldiers and not the officers - "We spoke to the wrong people". We were a laughing stock as a result and were inches away from reappointing Bailey which I think would have been a mistake. The Board also seemed to have failed to read or act upon the Andrews report and our Chairman has said in an extensive interview in the Age on 21st April that he is as clueless on our current situation as the supporters. I'm not happy with this and expressed an opinion. You'll leave it, probably attribute it to personal motives and move on. That's fine. Personally I think it's a shame because whilst poor Corporate Governance almost certainly won't be fatal it will significantly if not certainly increase the likelihood that we won't see the success everyone here so clearly wants.

and he was crap every week before the saints game

If you are going to drop Trengove is it not unreasonable to state why? He's having a go and does all the little things right unlike half our players. Even if you are to drop him isn't it reasonable to trial him as a forward or a half back flanker and drop someone who is offering nothing. Have a little think here people.

Players play. Coaches coach. Adminsitrators administor. Learn it, live it. We should change the 12 stars on the back of the jumper to 186 as a perpetual reminder of what happens when it is forgotten.