Need more evidence that Melbourne are tanking?

[Jaded No More 68,915]

Frawley's matchup in that scenario is Ebert. Bell on Motlop.

Also, I think you'll find that Doggy Brown will be on the list next year. I know he's unfashionable, but he does a lot of things that most people on here don't notice. Like run hard defensively, which is something that we don't get a lot of in our side. I have been a critic of him in the past, but he plays a very important role that nobody really notices because they only look at players when they have the ball.

We're going nowhere if Nathan Brown is still on the list next year.

Yes, he is a great clubman, and a hard worker, but he is just not good enough to play AFL anymore.

Horrible decision making, poor disposal, decreasing pace... what position will he play?

And Ebert is too short for Frawley. He's only 180cm if I'm not mistaken.

Port have a number of short, quick forwards. I'd rather have kept CJ in the side and play him as a defender than bring in one of Ferguson/Holland who are likely to spend a lot of time on the bench, alongside one of Jamar/Newton (can't play both in the forward line). That will leave us short of runners.

Even Bizzell would be more suited.

BTW, CJ was better than Buckley last week.

Not that I want to see Buckley dropped, but I just can't figure out why CJ doesn't get the same extended run as most do.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

We're going nowhere if Nathan Brown is still on the list next year.

Yes, he is a great clubman, and a hard worker, but he is just not good enough to play AFL anymore.

Horrible decision making, poor disposal, decreasing pace... what position will he play?

And Ebert is too short for Frawley. He's only 180cm if I'm not mistaken.

Port have a number of short, quick forwards. I'd rather have kept CJ in the side and play him as a defender than bring in one of Ferguson/Holland who are likely to spend a lot of time on the bench, alongside one of Jamar/Newton (can't play both in the forward line). That will leave us short of runners.

Even Bizzell would be more suited.

BTW, CJ was better than Buckley last week.

Not that I want to see Buckley dropped, but I just can't figure out why CJ doesn't get the same extended run as most do.

You can't delist everyone next year. We still need to have some 2nd tier players to back up injury. I would keep Brown and Bizzel for this purpose more so than the others who are likely to go. It is fair to say if he played more than a handful of games we would not be travelling well. He gives his all, works hard defensively and yes his decision making is poor but he finds the ball.

Ebert is quick but plays tall, most of his goals are marks on the lead or above his head. You cant judge a player on height but how they play. Frawley is a good match up.

CJ has been very disappointing and for mine Buckley showed more in the last qtr last week than CJ has shown in any match (practice matches not included). CJ just for mine is not up to it.

Can you explain how you would match up Lade, Westhoff, Tredrea, Motlop and Ebert?

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

Don't watch many Port games, do you Jaded?

Ebert is a leading forward. His strength is overhead and Frawley is quick enough to go with him on the lead and good enough defenisvely to cover him.

As I said, I know it's not popular to say that I think Doggy will be around next year, because it far easier (and more popular to the masses) to trot out the 'we're going backwards with him in the team' line. And supporters in the stands only watch the ball and, hence, only watch players when they have the ball. Thankfully coaches don't, because footy is so much more than what happens when you have the ball. SO much more.

And if you wanted Biz on Ebert then I would question your judgement a lot. I'll assume that you didn't, because that would make life much easier for both of us.

[Damo 3,356]

We're going nowhere if Nathan Brown is still on the list next year.

Yes, he is a great clubman, and a hard worker, but he is just not good enough to play AFL anymore.

Horrible decision making, poor disposal, decreasing pace... what position will he play?

Absolutely Agree.

He is the first to go in my mind.

His decision making and disposal are ABYSMAL!

I cant believe Bob is making the call to keep him.

I am gobsmacked!

[Scoop Junior 3,472]

Thanks for the newsflash sylvinator, but if you reckon we are selecting a side to lose you are kidding yourself. The way we are playing and with our record at AAMI Stadium, we probably wouldn't beat Port even if we had half the key players back from injury. There's no need to "tank" at AAMI Stadium when we are in such poor form - all we have to do is turn up and we'll probably lose!

I've never said Holland or Ferg are good or that I want them on the list. But I strongly believe they have been selected for match-up purposes. Carroll is tough and battles hard but he would be giving up far too much height on Lade/Brogan or Westhoff. I think Carroll should've kept his spot and I'd prefer a developmental approach than playing guys like Holland, but I understand the need to get taller defenders in there if suitable match-ups and winning are on the agenda. If Riley didn't want to win, he wouldn't bring Holland in and he wouldn't drop CJ.

Jaded - I must have been at the wrong game if CJ was better than Buckley last week. Buckley looked up to the speed of the game and worked his way through AFL-level traffic well. I'm yet to see CJ adequately navigate himself in AFL-intensity traffic. I still have hopes for him (and I wish he'd play seniors till the end of the year) but he is struggling to make an impact ATM.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

And if you wanted Biz on Ebert then I would question your judgement a lot. I'll assume that you didn't, because that would make life much easier for both of us.

Biz on Motlop for me.

Frawley got smashed on the lead last week. I'd suggest Ebert is as quick, if not quicker than Jones. That worries me.

And I know Brown works hard off the ball, but he has so many other faults that far outweigh his positives. I can't for the life of me see the point in keeping him on the list. At best, he'll come in and cover for injuries. I rather give Bode another season at Sandy, than waste an extra year on Brown.

He is a wonderful character to have around the club, but he just isn't a good enough player, and if we're serious about winning a flag, that's all that matters!

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

I'll pretend that you didn't say that we should play Bizzell on their most in form, dangerous and talented small forward.

*LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!! I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!!! LA LA LA LA LA*

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Biz on Motlop for me.

I dont think so Jaded. Bizz would not last a quarter on him. Motlop would cut him to shreds

[Dees 64 8]

What a pharking descgrace!! The MFC CAN GO AND GET F#$#!! mark jamar! ewww over paul johnson!! nathan brown and daniel ward??!! policy youth my ass. hell even id give jace bode ago ahead of these two. worst selection ever. Mark Riley is not the man for our job!!

im gonna admit this but i hate the club!

Dazzle I feel for you, my gut is turning as well.

Imagine how fair weather supporters feel, they will turn and follow someone else.

And please dont say we dont need them. We need all the help thats available.

Ps No logic in selecting Holland , Brown , Ward , Jamar ..they are not up to it.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I dont think so Jaded. Bizz would not last a quarter on him. Motlop would cut him to shreds

Bizzell could probably match him in terms of being able to read the ball. He may not have a lot going for him, late in his career, but his ability to read the play is still very good. Motlop would beat him for pace, but Bizzell would definitely compete with him in the air. Not ideal, but better than having Frawley on him IMO.

A good match-up for Motlop would actually be Matty Warnock, but he isn't getting a game.

How about Dunn/Garland just for something different? They'll probably get smashed, but it's a good experience.

Word is that Tredrea has knee soreness and may not play. Keeping that in mind, I hope we get as many runners into the side as possible. Already it looks like we could have two talls on the bench at any one time, which means one of Holland/Ferguson/Miller should be a late withdrawal depending on circumstances.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Bizzell could probably match him in terms of being able to read the ball. He may not have a lot going for him, late in his career, but his ability to read the play is still very good. Motlop would beat him for pace, but Bizzell would definitely compete with him in the air. Not ideal, but better than having Frawley on him IMO.

I'm not sure about Bizzell on Motlop, but I believe that he should be in the team.

I just hope that he was only dropped so as to give Ferguson a run. Because he did not deserve to be dropped on form.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Bizzell could probably match him in terms of being able to read the ball.

Its not much value when you give so much away in pace and you have tendency to be unaccountable.

I'd prefer Bell or Frawley.

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

There's no point being able to beat him in the air if he's so slow that each mark is uncontested.

Why not play Holland on him. After all, he's even better in the air.

Why not just play Bell on him? You know, our best small defender. Remember him? (no, he's not Clint Bizzell)

Anyway........ Brown suffers for the same reason that everyone cannot believe that Bizzell could ever be dropped: they only watch players when they have the ball. Doggy looks lost while Biz looks composed. But Biz is unaccountable and very poor defensively, while Doggy is an exceptionally hard worker who is very good at tracking defensively.

Yet Doggy kept playing seniors while Biz languished at Sandy. Everyone cries foul. Do the coaches care what supporters think of their decisions? I bloody hope not!

[Jaded No More 68,915]

Why not just play Bell on him? You know, our best small defender. Remember him? (no, he's not Clint Bizzell)

I could never forget Belly.

As I said in my initial post, he is best suited to Ebert, who is their most consistent small forward.

The issue is, we haven't got enough options down back. Carroll and Bizzell, even CJ, give us much more flexibility than Holland and Ferguson. Not to mention better rebounding options.

But then we're not playing to win, so it doesn't really matter.

Carroll being made to play at Sandy this week is a joke. I don't care who we're playing, he is our best fit defender and he could play on a number of players and give us some options.

We'll end up with a slow bench and no run, we'll lose and be a game closer to a top 2 pick

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

Ebert is effectively a 6 foot power forward. He's not a crumber's [censored]. As a result he should be played like a powerfarward. Frawley has the pace to go with him and the size to match him in the air. Whilst Bell is a good option for him (for a different reason to yours), their most dangerous forward is not him. It's Motlop. Motlop has no match up other than Bell. Actually the other choice is Frawley, but obviously Motlop gets our number one mid size defender as he is infinitely more dangerous (and multi dimensional) than Ebert.

If anything, Frawley is the one that gives us flexibility.

Ferguson will play the Bizzell 'unintentionally loose man in defence' role. I don't know what will happen with Holland, however he has been in excellent form both forward and back for Sandy. I'll interested to see how everything unfolds.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

I could never forget Belly.

As I said in my initial post, he is best suited to Ebert, who is their most consistent small forward.

The issue is, we haven't got enough options down back. Carroll and Bizzell, even CJ, give us much more flexibility than Holland and Ferguson. Not to mention better rebounding options.

But then we're not playing to win, so it doesn't really matter.

Carroll being made to play at Sandy this week is a joke. I don't care who we're playing, he is our best fit defender and he could play on a number of players and give us some options.

We'll end up with a slow bench and no run, we'll lose and be a game closer to a top 2 pick

Jaded, just so I can attempt to comprehend your position can you please explain to me how you would match up Powers forward line as I previously listed it (I am aware Tredrea is unlikely to play). There is no match up for carroll unless he takes Millers place.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

..the Bizzell 'unintentionally loose man in defence' role.

That's not true at all, if you watch Bizzell closely you'll know why.

Many people here seem to think that Bizzell is always loose on his opponent. That's not true.

The reason it looks this way is that if the ball is kicked to another opposition forward (someone Bizzell isn't playing on) then he leaves his man to help out. However, like I said, he tends to only do this when the ball has been directed to a different opposition forward other than his own.

It may be a bit of a risk, but when someone can read the play as well as Bizzell it is one worth taking and one that has seen him play some very good football since returning to the team this year.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

Jaded, just so I can attempt to comprehend your position can you please explain to me how you would match up Powers forward line as I previously listed it (I am aware Tredrea is unlikely to play). There is no match up for carroll unless he takes Millers place.

Sorry, I must have missed your post.

This is my ideal match-ups, if Tredrea doesn't play:

HF: Danyle Pearce, Lade/ Brogan?, David Rodan

F: Daniel Motlop, Justin Westhoff, Brett Ebert

Westhoff- PJ

Motlop- Frawley

Pearce- Bell (can go with him in the midfield if required)

Ebert- Warnock

Rodan- Carroll

Lade/Brogan- Miller

Keep in mind that this is about development more than anything. If we were trying to make the top 4, obviously the side and match-ups would look different.

PJ, Frawley and Warnock can and will get better, Ferguson and Holland won't.

I don't buy that Carroll doesn't have a match-up. If we were in a winning position, he would play. He plays taller than he is, but he has the pace to go smaller.

Just as a side note, can anyone explain the logic behind dropping PJ and not bringing in Jamar?

We're going into the match with one struggling ruckman... if that's not a sign we're trying to lose, I don't know what is.

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

I typed a reply that I was going to really regret. So I've changed it now to this.

However I may have a few more beers tonight!

[CHAMP 347]

Ebert is effectively a 6 foot power forward. He's not a crumber's [censored].

If he had a normal-sized head he'd be a 5'9" power forward. I shan't comment on his crumbing.

[Guest redandbluethruandthru]

HF: N.Brown, R.Robertson, S.Godfrey

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it. By having Robbo supported by 2 virtually useless players, our coach- in his brilliance, has forseen that his opposition coach will triple team Robbo therfore leaving Godfrey and Brown as loose players. As such they can be positioned exactly where Juice wants them to use as a lauchingpad for spectacular mark after spectacular mark. BRILLIANT. Once Williams figures this out and mans up Godders and Doggy then Robbo will start taking screamers of his own.

Also Bate will have his hair dyed black so Williams won't recognise him and won't know who this "new" player is until he bags 3 in the first quarter. Jones is gunna have his bald head buffed up so shiny that the glare of the sun will blind the other midfielders and he'll have 45 possesions for the game SECOND to Brocky who will be BOG with 55 possesions.

I WISH......

[Little Goffy 14,545]

Wow, if that is how the teams really line up then I'm afraid I'll have to starting thinking Riley has been part of the problem all along.

Who is Holland coming in for, anyway?

Tredrea? He'd spend the whole game watching from five metres behind.

Maybe Motlop or Pearce.

#%^ing #$%^ of a %^$ what the $#%#$@ why would $#% do $%^$ when the $^#% is $^$*ing %^%ed.

I'm sure I'll get solid agreement on that last sentence.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Whats teh League record ??

stay tuned for the scores after this game !!!!!

A perfectly designed and crafted machine....just not sure what to call it.. A Leopard, Sherman...Panzer ?? :-)) lol