8 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Appreciate the detailed response, I’m old fashioned but simply the theme of selfless in 21 & moving on from mistakes and player body language has vanished, what concerns me is the leaders are not living this and have become selfish, my point is just that if any players are not happy and if it’s the same ones on large contracts then they should request a trade and if need be take a pay cut to facilitate this!

Sure. But that’s an indictment on the club . For not knowing how to manage people, or to keep them inspired. So we’re not fixing the club problems in doing that.

The idea that we are "so close" is either an outright lie or vibrant delusion.

When challenged in any significant way, this team has lost any capacity to grit its teeth and fight back. The result was inevitable from the five-minute mark - and that's disgraceful for a group with so many proven senior footballers in it.

2 hours ago, pitmaster said:

Spot on.

Gunston's lead towards open space 30-40 metres out as the ball carrier heads towards goal, then with a shift in direction towards the corridor for two steps caused Turner to change stride, then to resume his original course towards that open space gifted him an uncontested mark. No fault of Turner's who was on the job but just one play in a master class.

The second point is equally right. Gunston took several marks in the 15-40 metre space that was wide open. Hawks delivered it there and he knew to run into it. We tried it as well with a number of spearing passes into the hot spot at the PUNT ROAD end but no forward of ours knew to run to the spot and interceptions resulted.

We seem not to know how to create space or how to use it, hence we won the inside 50s but never looked like winning the game.

Could it be because 2 of our forwards are not natural forwards and no amount of coaching, instruction or game plan is going to make them such. You cant really teach that feign from Gunston, its pure instinct in the moment, otherwise its too rehearsed and afl defender doesnt fall for it.

15 hours ago, Smokey said:

Take cents on the dollar for Petracca and Clarry and just find a way to trade them. Then we can start the mini rebuild.

That’s wilderness not ‘mini- rebuild’

11 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

The top 6 for contested possessions with a round to go.

1. Serong 299

2. Tom Greene 297

3. Gawn 284

4. Rowell 277

5. Cripps 277

6. Hewett 274

What's the veracity of this stat. Averaging 10 per game?

Not saying your wrong. Just would like to know how an unbelievable stat like this was calculated.

If true. Hand Max his 8th AA now.

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I'll start by saying Max is phenomenal but it's also a major reason we're no good

Our midst have been useless for a few years and one of the reasons is the Max is generating these kinds of stats.

Our miss rely on Max too muchto do grunt work they should be doing

And Max should be kicking less. When he gets it it should've be hand balled to a distributor that can kick like Bowey

We have an unhealthy reliance on Max

I agree Max should be handballing off at every opportunity but the problem is who too? Because my other instruction, if I were coach, is that Oliver and Viney should only ever kick the ball in an emergency and I would be considering the same instructions to Petracca and Langdon! That’s the entire original V8 engine room, now operating as a 2 stroke!

I am really confused at Oliver and Tracc’s lack of composure in traffic, just grabbing the ball and throwing it on the boot immediately. These guys should be playing their best footy at their ages and experience.

1 hour ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

The idea that we are "so close" is either an outright lie or vibrant delusion.

When challenged in any significant way, this team has lost any capacity to grit its teeth and fight back. The result was inevitable from the five-minute mark - and that's disgraceful for a group with so many proven senior footballers in it.

I wouldn't take the 'so close' remark too seriously. Remembering that Goodwin had just been sacked

Upon his dismissal, the late Dean Bailey (RIP) remarked that we had a premiership list. The comments are almost like a fail-safe move

But the reality is that we need to overhaul the list and overhaul the FD

In my view, unless we act in these 2 areas we can or could get even worse no matter who the new coach might be

The ladder doesn't lie nor does the W/L record

We look good on paper only

We're slow, we lack basic skills and we aren't going hard enough at the ball or the contest

We have no marking presence up forward and our mids just blaze away indiscriminately

Issues everywhere but if we take affirmative action, we can march up the ladder

But if the club actually believes we're not far away, we're in trouble

16 hours ago, BoBo said:

Bloody chandler and his inappropriate and insecure hand gestures cost us that game.

I was an energetics sceptic, but perhaps I'll need to revaluate.

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I'll start by saying Max is phenomenal but it's also a major reason we're no good

Our midst have been useless for a few years and one of the reasons is the Max is generating these kinds of stats.

Our miss rely on Max too muchto do grunt work they should be doing

And Max should be kicking less. When he gets it it should've be hand balled to a distributor that can kick like Bowey

We have an unhealthy reliance on Max

Agree entirely.

Man is a Goliath and it's hard to criticise him given the way he's been carrying us on and off the field.

But geez his grabbing it out of the ruck to slam it on the boot is no better than Viney, Trac or Oliver scrap kicking forward.

It's that 'run out of ideas' look and desperation.

A bad habit.

Edited August 17Aug 17 by Howard_Grimes

3 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Well done to both of you for going the other way on this. That was just to highlight how good Max has been this year, nothing else. Oliver and Petracca are 11th and 12th respectively in that particular stat.

Viney has played 5-6 games less than the other 3 and on average would be on par with Oliver and Trac.

Gathers from hit-outs, contested marks and frees for count for contested possessions so i don’t think it’s an unhealthy reliance on Max.

Grundy is the Swans leading contested possession winner, Heeney must lift his game according to you.

Yes. Heeney has been inconsistent this year.

But anyway that is beside the point. We are paying 2.5 million for two midfielders whose ruckman wins more contested ball than they do.

Edited August 17Aug 17 by praha

The initial decision to play May on Gunston was a shocker.

Petracca is 4kg too heavy.

Jones is the root cause of our midfield issues (being the midfield coach)

Blaming Gawn for grabbing the ball at ruck contests is blaming the A-End of the problem.

When was the last time we had a clean clearance where a mid is released but not under pressure? And therefore, be in a position to deliver it forward to a leading target?

We have no schemes, no playbook, no science, we just hack it forward like a bunch of unskilled hacks

And our forward line is a shambles

As for Chaplin. He's in charge of our overall offense! Massive Fail

Bassett has failed as well as our defence has gone backwards

Mark Williams is just a Cheerleader and our GM just hides away and stays out of sight. Jobs for the boys

Our list manager (Lamb) hands out the money & contracts like confetti

Taylor should stick to the draft only as the experienced players that he has brought in have offered nothing in the last 4 or 5 years

Lord knows what he saw in Schache or Billings ... oh that's right, they were formally high draft picks that Taylor couldn't let go of

Stick to what you're good at, JT

Drain the Swamp

The new coach needs a new list and a new FD

Edited August 17Aug 17 by Macca

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

Drain the Swamp

Make Melbourne Great Again

Just now, BDA said:

Make Melbourne Great Again

We need a major overhaul, Betters

If we were to evaluate each individual within the FD (including Goodwin) then there's no success stories that I can see (in the last 2 seasons at least)

Reality is that we've gone backwards since Yze departed (was he not 'coaching' the team from upstairs?)

The GM (Richardson) oversees it all yet he gets to keep his $500k+ per year job? He should have been dismissed before Goodwin

I said it back in early April, when things go bad it's never one persons fault

Clear the decks, drain the Swamp and make Melbourne great again!

And if it is Buckley, I want him to have every chance to be a successful coach

Give him the same FD (and playing list) and I can't see it working

I think @Meggs does this (?)

4 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

It’s difficult to write up a report when you’re a cheer squad member; as with the men’s, I spend a lot of game time apologising to folks for almost taking their eye out with my flag or concussing them with my flagpole 😁

LOL, my friend and I ended up sitting with the Cheer Squad yesterday. He’s only been to 2 other footy games and supposedly barracks for Richmond—although when I dropped him off, he was still wearing my Melbourne scarf and saying he’ll come anytime :)

I completely get the flagpole bit. Although my biggest worry was the thought of not seeing the ball come through and getting hit with it.

Edited August 17Aug 17 by 710 Asbury St

2 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

The idea that we are "so close" is either an outright lie or vibrant delusion.

100% agreed.

It’s not unprecedented and we wouldn’t be the first bottom 4/5 side to lose a couple of close games to good teams.

I reckon we’re miles off being a top 8 team next year.

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Hes close to never again. Dumb, selfish and soft

14 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Look it was great we gutsed it out in the last half (talk of players not giving effort is nonsense). But at the same time what difference would had it made if we lost by 70 and found out wow, May as a forward actually looks good. Rivers in the middle gives us overlap etc. A totally missed opportunity.

That's what I'm finding so annoying it's like the football equivalent of Groundhog Day. We could've tried some of the younger guys, moved May to FF and experimented especially in the second half. But no just keep the same structures and keep getting the same results. We are so conservative and predictable. Just bomb it long and they rebound and goal. I've got 7.21 and the St.Kilda loss etched into my brain and we really keep doing the same stuff over and over and keep selecting the same players. We are so predictable.

1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I reckon we’re miles off being a top 8 team next year.

Right now we are but is the board and the club thinking we are a contender with the individuals we have now?

It seems to me that the Board was expecting success this season and when that didn't happen, they blamed the coach and then sacked him

That's usually how it works but reality bites. Yesterday was living proof that the playing list has issues, left, right and centre

Not only is there a distinct lack of talent but there's a complete disconnect on the field and our players look lost.

We're clearly not good enough

I watched the Crows/Pies game last night and there's no way we can compete at that level. We're a long way off

Bringing in a new coach (alone) isn't going to fix our issues. An overhaul is needed and we need to surround the new coach with the right people

And go hard at the trade table as we need some future stars. Our existing stars are now no better than B or B+ and even then it's inconsistent performances (or outcomes) They are on the wane

It used to be that our stars would stand up in the last quarter (or 2nd halves) but now they are not noticable. We either keep losing the close ones or are outclassed

We can't be expecting the 'messiah' coach

3 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I reckon we’re miles off being a top 8 team next year.

Miles off.

I thought we were a fair way off at the start of this year. I could see a narrow path to sneaking into the eight. Now that seems absurdly over-optimistic.

Our top paid and once best players (minus Max) are either horribly out of form or over the edge of respective career cliffs. (I've admired the way Petracca has returned from his awful inury, but his last few weeks have been so deflating.)

We've lost any semblance of consistency and our period as the most difficult-to-play-against team in the comp seems like a fever dream. We get thrashed by the best teams. We get thrashed by the mediocre teams. And we get thrashed by the stragglers. The team with the worst list in the competition beat us by breaking one of the most unlikely records in the book.

We've lost important second-tier players and have resolutely kept playing third-tier players who don't make us better in any meaningful way.

Our overall kicking skills remain the worst in the league or very close to it.

Yes, we have some beauties under the age of 20. So does just about every other team.

I love Paul Roos, but if we win the Flag next year it will make Leicester City 2016 seem unremarkable.

Just now, Macca said:

Right now we are but is the board and the club thinking we are a contender with the individuals we have now?

It seems to me that the Board was expecting success this season and when that didn't happen, they blamed the coach and then sacked him

That's usually how it works but reality bites. Yesterday was living proof that the playing list has issues, left, right and centre

Not only is there a distinct lack of talent but there's a complete disconnect on the field and our players look lost.

We're clearly not good enough

I watched the Crows/Pies game last night and there's no way we can compete at that level. We're a long way off

Bringing in a new coach (alone) isn't going to fix our issues. An overhaul is needed and we need to surround the new coach with the right people

And go hard at the trade table as we need some future stars. Our existing stars are now no better than B or B+ and even then it's inconsistent performances (or outcomes) They are on the wane

It used to be that our stars would stand up in the last quarter (or 2nd halves) but now they are not noticable. We either keep losing the close ones or are outclassed

We can't be expecting the 'messiah' coach

Is there a possibility that the Board took the'review' and FDs views as gospel ?

Obviously nearly everyone has been wide of the mark. That realisation culminating in bye bye Simon, as well I suspect the realisation we'd been sold a pup.

6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Is there a possibility that the Board took the'review' and FDs views as gospel ?

The 'Review' that didn't review properly? It can't be assumed that any review is going to be accurate

Any number of people telling other people what they want to hear. I'm a sceptic on that stuff, bub

We actually need another review but will another review reveal anything?

What we need is a board that knows precisely where the club is at (in all areas)

Couldn't the sacking have been conducted within the confines of the club? Why did we feel compelled to have 4 individuals visit the coach's house in the evening to deliver the news?

Couldn't it have waited for first thing in the morning in a professional environment?

It's any wonder that Goodwin tossed them out. Amateur hour

Edited August 17Aug 17 by Macca

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

The initial decision to play May on Gunston was a shocker.

Petracca is 4kg too heavy.

Not to mention completely cooked.

The curious thing was how long Chaplin took to change tge match up.

Though it has to be said Howes was no better. Couldn't believe the space he gave Gunston.

All that said neither May or Howes were helped out by the woeful pressure we applied to the kickers spotting up Gunston or the fact we couldn't get back on turnover and transtion and block his leading lanes.

4 hours ago, praha said:

Yes. Heeney has been inconsistent this year.

But anyway that is beside the point. We are paying 2.5 million for two midfielders whose ruckman wins more contested ball than they do.

This has mountain and molehill vibes all over it.

Trac and Clarry are 11th and 12th in the league for CPs. They have more than Libba, Neale, Newcombe, Brayshaw, Dunkley, Butters, Dawson, and of course about 600 others. The gap is such that, across the season, Clarry averages 1 CP fewer than Gawn per game, and Trac 2. Is this really an issue?

IMO, Gawn dominates this stat because he’s a legend of the game. Indeed, it’s arguable that for Trac and Clarry to have had as much as they have had despite Gawn’s dominance is a testament to how good they are in this area.

31 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

This has mountain and molehill vibes all over it.

Trac and Clarry are 11th and 12th in the league for CPs. They have more than Libba, Neale, Newcombe, Brayshaw, Dunkley, Butters, Dawson, and of course about 600 others. The gap is such that, across the season, Clarry averages 1 CP fewer than Gawn per game, and Trac 2. Is this really an issue?

IMO, Gawn dominates this stat because he’s a legend of the game. Indeed, it’s arguable that for Trac and Clarry to have had as much as they have had despite Gawn’s dominance is a testament to how good they are in this area.

Especially when Gawn taking the ball out of the ruck removes the midfielders from the equation and the times Max chooses to win the hit outs there's no reasoning behind when and where he's going to hit the ball.

You'd have more luck predicting a roll of dice than predicting a Max Gawn hit out.

Took me 24 hours to digest that rubbish. It looked bruise free from our leaders. Tracc and Oliver cannot kick the ball to save themselves. I had to retreat to the bar at half time yesterday, and never made it back. Some of the worst football we’ve played all year.