8 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Better off taking a lesser pick for Petracca than paying him to play for another club. Cap space is more valuable than picks.

7 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

Stk spruiking they’re confident they can get Flanders too… could see GC trading him to us just to spite StK after Ross’ nepo baby comments. Id be up for that

St Kilda are tossing around a lot of money to hold Nasiah and acquire TDK. It did put me in mind of this thread even before I saw these two comments next to each other.

We may have put our salary cap on the line to secure a premiership, and have seen both the positive and negative of that, but St Kilda... well, as they say in the classics, there's no point [censored]ing your way to the middle.

They've drafted very well since 2021ish - with a few still on the 'too young, wait and see, lots of potential' list of course. If they can complete their list while that wave of young talent comes through then they are onto something. But it looks to me like they are headed for the kind of path Carlton has spent the last decade on. Big stars here, big stars there, but also too much empty sky.

Although the AFL team has completed its Casey has not, and all MFC players are available for Casey until they are eliminated from finals. The MFC players trained at Casey last night in the cold and pouring rain, and if they qualify, are happy to keep playing. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that this may be the reason why not all exit interviews have been conducted or any delisting published until all Casey commitments are finalised

Kolton qualifies, and Ollie Sestan trained and is available for Saturday as well. I believe Jefferson is injured, but Casey will field a strong team.

Edited Wednesday at 09:484 days by Older demon

On 25/08/2025 at 08:34, Billy said:

If Buckley gets the gig, should he sit Petracca down give him both barrels & see if he wants to be at the club & if so offer him the VC with the promise of Captaincy in 2027?

If Buckley gets the gig, he doesn’t need to sit Petracca down with “both barrels.” He just needs to ask one simple question: “Do you actually want to be here?”

If the answer’s yes, you lock him in, consider him for the VC maybe, and sketch out a path to the captaincy once Gawn’s beard turns grey. If the answer’s no, you move him on before he becomes a $1m distraction again.

Because let’s be honest: the idea that Petracca needs to be threatened into caring is ridiculous. He’s either all-in or he isn’t, and no amount of Buckley theatrics will change that.

15 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Demonland is the exit interview

23 hours ago, Rednblueriseing said:

The thing is at the time of these long term contracts we thought we were signing players in the top 10 in the comp. Now they struggle to make the top 100

I understand Demonland is largely a fact-free zone… but here goes nonetheless:

Both Trac and Choo Choo are currently ranked inside the top 40 players in the comp according to at least one reputable player rating system.

So while we’re busy arguing about whether half the squad should be traded for a 5th-rounder, maybe let’s not forget: on paper, we’ve still got elite talent at the pointy end.

46 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Both Trac and Choo Choo are currently ranked inside the top 40 players in the comp according to at least one reputable player rating system.

trac's 13.37 is #39 in champion data's player ratings, while oliver is #88 with an 11.15 rating

by comparison bont was #1 this season with a 19.79 rating

it's a massive dip from 2023, where they were #4 and #7 respectively, with 16.52 and 16.15 ratings

bont was #1 that year too, with 18.71

all data from @WheeloRatings

18 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

trac's 13.37 is #39 in champion data's player ratings, while oliver is #88 with an 11.15 rating

by comparison bont was #1 this season with a 19.79 rating

it's a massive dip from 2023, where they were #4 and #7 respectively, with 16.52 and 16.15 ratings

bont was #1 that year too, with 18.71

all data from @WheeloRatings

And the ratings systems all favour centre square midfielders. Ratings of 11-13 are nothing special. Petracca is behind Sam Durham and Oliver is behind Josh Ward. These players are on less than half as much.

On 26/08/2025 at 11:14, BLWNBA said:

5 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

And the ratings systems all favour centre square midfielders. Ratings of 11-13 are nothing special. Petracca is behind Sam Durham and Oliver is behind Josh Ward. These players are on less than half as much.

The rating systems favour half backs more than any other position, there's 5-6 half backs in their top 10 this year

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

If Buckley gets the gig, he doesn’t need to sit Petracca down with “both barrels.” He just needs to ask one simple question: “Do you actually want to be here?”

If the answer’s yes, you lock him in, consider him for the VC maybe, and sketch out a path to the captaincy once Gawn’s beard turns grey. If the answer’s no, you move him on before he becomes a $1m distraction again.

Because let’s be honest: the idea that Petracca needs to be threatened into caring is ridiculous. He’s either all-in or he isn’t, and no amount of Buckley theatrics will change that.

I’m actually quite positive Petracca if Buckley is coach. Remember he was a pies fan growing up, so I imagine Buckley is one of his heroes.. if anyone can put the acid on him, then it’s Buckley who would naturally command his respect. Perhaps more than any other.

In fact, with that in mind, I see a case to make him the next captain under Buckley.

Edited Thursday at 01:423 days by watchtheeyes

13 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

And the ratings systems all favour centre square midfielders. Ratings of 11-13 are nothing special. Petracca is behind Sam Durham and Oliver is behind Josh Ward. These players are on less than half as much.

And therein lies our issue. Players of Trac and Oliver are presenting as worse than Durham and Ward whilst earning more than the #1 player in the comp.

Im afraid to say it but on this point (in retrospect) Kano was right. These long term deals we signed them both up to was just bad business. We were desperate to keep them as marquee players (Olliver moreso following the premiership.) The reality was we should have only signed them up for 4-5 years each.

Had the list management team just waited until the end of the year, we would have had a premiership and a much better negotiating position.

And we didn't learn our lesson, offering Kozzy a huge contract.

Player managers must love dealing with us. I hope Guerra and Smith (with their collective business acumen) step in and set some stern policies with our list management strategy (at least from a financial renumeration perspective).

19 minutes ago, watchtheeyes said:

I’m actually quite positive Petracca if Buckley is coach. Remember he was a pies fan growing up, so I imagine Buckley is one of his heroes.. if anyone can put the acid on him, then it’s Buckley who would naturally command his respect. Perhaps more than any other.

In fact, with that in mind, I see a case to make him the next captain under Buckley.

God help us if one of our highest paid players needs to be coached by a childhood idol to get the best out of himself.

If Trac, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't want to be at the club in 2026, they can leave.

The last thing we need is for a new coach to waste their time and energy coddling and coercing players into wanting to play for the club.

59 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

trac's 13.37 is #39 in champion data's player ratings, while oliver is #88 with an 11.15 rating

by comparison bont was #1 this season with a 19.79 rating

it's a massive dip from 2023, where they were #4 and #7 respectively, with 16.52 and 16.15 ratings

bont was #1 that year too, with 18.71

all data from @WheeloRatings

So what you're saying is that they are both, at worst, in the top 10 percent of players running around. And as you like comparisons, de Koning Nobody is ranked 165. At least we're not St. Kilda.

42 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

So what you're saying is that they are both, at worst, in the top 10 percent of players running around. And as you like comparisons, de Koning Nobody is ranked 165. At least we're not St. Kilda.

i wasn't saying that at all, but yr not wrong

of course, their drop off has been from in the best sub 1% to the best 10% in the space of two years

fair drop

46 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

So what you're saying is that they are both, at worst, in the top 10 percent of players running around. And as you like comparisons, de Koning Nobody is ranked 165. At least we're not St. Kilda.

Stkilda is the titanic and de Koning is the iceberg. What are they doing?

45 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i wasn't saying that at all, but yr not wrong

of course, their drop off has been from in the best sub 1% to the best 10% in the space of two years

fair drop

They also changed their rating system between 24-25 so the comparison is not direct

7 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

They also changed their rating system between 24-25 so the comparison is not direct

hence why half-back accumulators who get so much more of the ball and deliver it quickly, cleanly, are now more highly rated, i suppose?

2 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

The rating systems favour half backs more than any other position, there's 5-6 half backs in their top 10 this year

The top 10 according to Wheelo ratings is Bont, Richards, Anderson, Xerri, Rowell, Heeney, Tom Green, Serong, Butters, Wanganeen-Milera.

Maybe Wanganeen-Milera as a half back, but he moved into the midfield.

7 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

The rating systems favour half backs more than any other position, there's 5-6 half backs in their top 10 this year

5 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

They also changed their rating system between 24-25 so the comparison is not direct

The figures that @whatwhat say what posted are using the same rating system for 2023 and 2025. Ditto for the top 10 from @Fat Tony. CD did not change the "Player Ratings" system, they introduced a new additional "100X" rating system.

The one that Daniel Hoyne pushes on SEN (the one which favours half backs) is the new 100X rating system. The 100X system attempts to remove any "Player Ratings" bias towards particular positions. Basically, the 100X system calculates how much above or below average a player is per 100 minutes compared to other players in that position. The two main problems with this is:

• It assumes that certain positions accumulate more points due to a bias in the ratings, rather than the fact that (arguably) the best or most impactful players are often midfielders.

• The positions used by CD are quite limited and two players in the same position may play very different roles. E.g lockdown general defenders and rebound defenders are both "general defenders" but the rebound defenders will accumulate a lot more rating points. As they get compared in the 100X system, the rebound defenders get a boost which may explain why they dominate the top 10 on SEN.

While it has its flaws, the standard player ratings is better than the 100X system they have been pushing recently.

21 minutes ago, WheeloRatings said:

The figures that @whatwhat say what posted are using the same rating system for 2023 and 2025. Ditto for the top 10 from @Fat Tony. CD did not change the "Player Ratings" system, they introduced a new additional "100X" rating system.

The one that Daniel Hoyne pushes on SEN (the one which favours half backs) is the new 100X rating system. The 100X system attempts to remove any "Player Ratings" bias towards particular positions. Basically, the 100X system calculates how much above or below average a player is per 100 minutes compared to other players in that position. The two main problems with this is:

• It assumes that certain positions accumulate more points due to a bias in the ratings, rather than the fact that (arguably) the best or most impactful players are often midfielders.

• The positions used by CD are quite limited and two players in the same position may play very different roles. E.g lockdown general defenders and rebound defenders are both "general defenders" but the rebound defenders will accumulate a lot more rating points. As they get compared in the 100X system, the rebound defenders get a boost which may explain why they dominate the top 10 on SEN.

While it has its flaws, the standard player ratings is better than the 100X system they have been pushing recently.

Thanks, Wheelo.

Why is Xerri so high in the ratings ? He's a scrubber. He's a very effective scrubber, granted, but a scrubber nonetheless.

Are tackles weighted disproportionately ? Is it the clearances ?

Gawn averages more disposals, more marks, more contested marks (more contested marks than Xerri's general marks), more intercepts, more score involvements, contested possessions the same, the ruck stats are similar, ...

Xerri is a good player, but nowhere near as athletic as Gawn, or the all-rounder that Gawn is. I suppose the eye test is still underrated.

Anyway, I'm fascinated why Xerri has such a strong rating.

Have the end season exit interviews been done or are they waiting on the new coach to be appointed, how will this run as all the other teams not playing finals are been completed?

9 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Have the end season exit interviews been done or are they waiting on the new coach to be appointed, how will this run as all the other teams not playing finals are been completed?

Apparently they were conducted a day or two ago, though perhaps not for the players still playing VFL finals. Don't think it's possible to wait for new coach appt as players start their leave period soon after last game.

15 minutes ago, Gator said:

Thanks, Wheelo.

Why is Xerri so high in the ratings ? He's a scrubber. He's a very effective scrubber, granted, but a scrubber nonetheless.

Are tackles weighted disproportionately ? Is it the clearances ?

Gawn averages more disposals, more marks, more contested marks (more contested marks than Xerri's general marks), more intercepts, more score involvements, contested possessions the same, the ruck stats are similar, ...

Xerri is a good player, but nowhere near as athletic as Gawn, or the all-rounder that Gawn is. I suppose the eye test is still underrated.

Anyway, I'm fascinated why Xerri has such a strong rating.

One factor that drags down Maxy's ratings a little bit this season is his horrible goal kicking.

Every involvement in a player has in a game is rated in terms of whether it has a positive or negative impact (-6 to +6 I think).

Maxy kicked something like 3 goals 13 or some such, and many of his misses were complete sodas.

Each of those misses are of course involvements, and for each Maxy would have lost ratings points.

And he only kicked 3 goals so no points there.

Those misses are negligible in the scheme of things in terms of maxy rating.

But in terms of a comparison to Xerri's rating, if Xerri had way fewer misses and/or kicked more goals than Maxy that's a swing right there.

The other swing factor might be pressure. I think im right in saying players get points for applying pressure and I supect xerri has a higher pressure rating, for example by tackling more.

Edited Thursday at 11:193 days by binman

6 minutes ago, binman said:

One factor that drags down Maxy's ratings a little bit this season is his horrible goal kicking.

Every involvement in a game a player has in a game is rated in terms of whether it has a positive or negative impact (-6 to +6 I think).

Maxy kicked something like 3 goals 13 or some such, and many of his misses were complete sodas.

Each of those misses are of course involvements, and for each Maxy would have lost ratings points.

And he only kicked 3 goals so no points there.

Those misses are negligible in the scheme of things in terms of maxy rating.

But in terms of a comparison to Xerri's rating, if Xerri had way fewer misses and/or kicked more goals than Maxy that's a swing right there.

The other swing factor might be pressure. I think im right in saying players get points for applying pressure and I supect xerri has a higher pressure rating, for example by tackling more.

If you took goal kicking away, Max and Xerri would have almost identical player ratings. Max lost around 2.1 or maybe more points a game because of his goal kicking.

Xerri isn’t a scrubber though. He is a very good ruckman. Gets his own ball. More clearances than Max and a large part of why North are top 4 at scoring from stoppage.

36 minutes ago, gs77 said:

Apparently they were conducted a day or two ago, though perhaps not for the players still playing VFL finals. Don't think it's possible to wait for new coach appt as players start their leave period soon after last game.

So how who decides on delistings without the senior coach?