I see a team totally lacking confidence and playing with anxiety. And you can’t blame coaching for that. When you’re terrified of failure, skills go out the door. I don’t know what the answer is - I don’t think the internal fractures of last season are as fixed as even the players thought. Oh and BTW - I just saw Trac doing a cooking demo down at Chadstone - somehow I had no interest in sticking around to get his thoughts on pasta. I’m more interested in his lack of effort on the footy field.

10 minutes ago, Adina88 said:

I see a team totally lacking confidence and playing with anxiety. And you can’t blame coaching for that. When you’re terrified of failure, skills go out the door. I don’t know what the answer is - I don’t think the internal fractures of last season are as fixed as even the players thought. Oh and BTW - I just saw Trac doing a cooking demo down at Chadstone - somehow I had no interest in sticking around to get his thoughts on pasta. I’m more interested in his lack of effort on the footy field.

Sorry but building confidence and mental strength is a major part of the coach’s role. He needs to drive belief, standards and provide a clear vision. Anxiety in the football team at the moment is born from not knowing what to do. It’s certainly not born from the threat of being dropped if you have a bad game.

57 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Goodwin said the fwd line wasn't the problem because we had 26 entries...

Quality entries? 🤔 I think not.

56 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

JVR revisionism out in full force. His [censored] season to date doesn't mean he was no good the last two years. 28 and 30 goals as a young FF in a largely dysfunctional forward line, only sometimes supported by Brown.

I think we should cut JVR some slack. He still young and having the play the KPF1 role with rubbish delivery. definitely worth persisting with in my view

45 minutes ago, WheeloRatings said:

The AFL average for converting first possession into a clearance is 75% this season. Melbourne wins the clearance just 65% of the time (18th) they get first hands on the ball (2024: 72% - 18th)

Melbourne's opponents are at 85% - also 18th (2024: 79% - 18th)

Melbourne was 12th for both in 2021 so we weren't clean in this area even then.

Thank you. That is what I feared.

It suggests our stoppage method has two issues. Even if 1) we get first touch, which we no longer seem good at 2) we can't get it to someone on the outside.

1) seems partly because Max sadly, is no longer being able to jump well, which is not surprising given his leg and back issues in recent times. And our mids have become too reliant on him and not learnt to shark the opp ruckman whereas the opps shark Max.

2) seems because our mids just bomb it out by foot and they don't seem to handball it out much anymore. Whether it is because they panic or our method doesn't have players on the outside it is difficult to tell. Certainly opps have beaten us on the outside at stoppages for years as 12th in 2021 indicates.

I think 1) and 2) is 'the method' Goodwin is referring to that they need to fix.

In the past the quality of the players was enough to overcome deficiencies in method. That is no longer the case. I just hope coaches and players sort it out quickly.

Some of the skill errors and lack of awareness were astonishingly bad. In fact, for many players, that looked to be their floor in terms of performance. Rivers and JVR looked like a first-gamers at times. Oliver and Petracca are suffering from a lack of cohesion and rhythm. I like the idea of a player like Kynan Brown in there, who is fast and a fierce tackler, just to prevent such easy takeaways out of the centre. In fact, we don’t currently seem to have that little pest on our list who can lock down the opposition danger man. Was Harmes the last to do it effectively? This is really only to say, yes, Petracca and Oliver are down on form, but are we doing enough to mitigate the damage going the other way?

The biggest positive for me is that we know there are four best-22 players to come into this side who are all dynamic and skilful: McVee, Pickett, Windsor and Lindsay (well, hopefully) will make a significant difference. If Tholstrup, Brown surpass expectations this year, and Langford continues to improve, we may not be in quite as bad shape as it seems. The presence of Langford, in particular, cushions us slightly against diminishing returns from Viney, Petracca and Oliver.

As for next week, I feel JVR needs to return to Casey - if only to be heavily involved in the play and regain some form. Turner demanded selection yesterday.

Edited Sunday at 02:104 days by wisedog

For mine, there are four major issues that need addressing:

1. What happened after R1?: I cannot understand how we have gone from nearly beating the Giants to putting in absolute slop efforts. Last week we were run off our feet and this week our vaunted midfield was made to look a grade below. What has happened?!

2. The performance of our top tier players: Following on from point 1, our top rated players were all well under standard yesterday. Gawn looked genuinely disinterested at times and some of his efforts were shockingly half hearted. Clarrie was poor, Viney was non existent, Trac tried when near it but wasnt a game winner, Fritsch shirked several contests, May was soundly beaten (and was lucky not to have 8 kicked on him).

3. Forward Entries: Long time issue, but our decision making and skill execution going forward was atrocious. How many times did we kick to a 2-on-1, straight to the opposition or a shorter player in a marking contest? Really, really simple stuff and equally frustrating.

4. Skills & Nous: I can't remember us fumbling the ball so badly in dry conditions, it was baffling. Similarly, players positioning themselves in the wrong spots at marking contests. So many times the ball came out of a contest and we had players nowhere near it. Our ground kicking was really poor again too; some kicks straight to the opposition and other short kicks and handballs not hitting targets.

On a brighter note, I thought many of our second (Salem, Bowey, Langdon, Chandler, McDonald) and third tier players (Sharp, Henderson) were good. Also positive is that Windsor, Kozzie and Lever should all come back in - probably Turner too based on 14 marks and 5 goals. Wouldn't mind Laurie coming in for some skills, but we really need our guns firing.

2 hours ago, layzie said:

There is never enough talk about how Port should have had an armchair ride to that Grand Final and choked hard time.

Yep their loss to the bulldogs in that PF is up there with the most insipid finals performances in modern history.

I wonder when the last time was that we lost consecutive games by more than 58 points (near enough ten goals)? I assume it’s a fair while ago. Further, that it was against Nth and Gc (away) makes it more striking.

2 hours ago, WheeloRatings said:

The AFL average for converting first possession into a clearance is 75% this season. Melbourne wins the clearance just 65% of the time (18th) they get first hands on the ball (2024: 72% - 18th)

Melbourne's opponents are at 85% - also 18th (2024: 79% - 18th)

Melbourne was 12th for both in 2021 so we weren't clean in this area even then.

Do you mind me asking: is that all clearances or just center bounce?

36 minutes ago, Sesto said:

Do you mind me asking: is that all clearances or just center bounce?

That's all stoppages.

At halftime yesterday we were 2.9 in decent weather conditions

A score like that should be an outlier for every team, but for the MFC it happens regularly. That is the bottom line

Players work hard to get the ball into attack and then it is butchered by lazy forward craft. High energy for lousy returns

Heads will drop and opponents will go in for the kill. Since the GF we have continued to have a terrible conversion rate inside 50’s to Goals scored.

We all see it, but nothing changes

How serious is training?

I really don’t care if players love each other or not. They are highly paid to do a tough hard job.

I think training and conditioning needs a full revamp

These players this year are not prepared for 3 hours work

This is on the Football Department, who i believe need to toughen up.

That doesn’t mean respect is lost

3 hours ago, WheeloRatings said:

The AFL average for converting first possession into a clearance is 75% this season. Melbourne wins the clearance just 65% of the time (18th) they get first hands on the ball (2024: 72% - 18th)

Melbourne's opponents are at 85% - also 18th (2024: 79% - 18th)

Melbourne was 12th for both in 2021 so we weren't clean in this area even then.

Wow, those are damning stats

All the more reason to revamp our midfield with a do-over

Of course, we've already started doing so with the acquisition of Tholstrup, Windsor, Lindsay, Langford along with Sharp & Billings as back ups

As well as using Kozzie at the stoppages periodically

So the above is not so much a coincidence but a plan that will take a bit of time

4 hours ago, BDA said:

I think we should cut JVR some slack. He still young and having the play the KPF1 role with rubbish delivery. definitely worth persisting with in my view

He is nearly 22 years old and debuted in Round 2, 2023. He has played 44 games which hardly makes him a new recruit nor that 'young'. Other players who have played as many games and came into the system with high expectations are doing much better (for example, Sheezel at North). JVR has also not been playing the number 1 forward exclusively - there have always been at least one other tall player down there. And lately, his performance has been so poor that Max Gawn regularly drops down there.

Further, have you watched him closely? HIs running patterns are ridiculous. Also while I agree the forward line is not helped by the 'bombers' like Viney and almost everyone else further up the field, there have been many times he has received delivery that any other skilled player would mark, and he drops it. He cannot even stick chest marks when the delivery is perfect. And the back line players know they can easily nudge him under the ball when it is one on one. I have lost count of how many times that happens every game.

A plausible proposition is he has been poorly coached and was originally a defender anyway (before coming to MFC). Under that scenario, it might be desirable to take the pressure off him and give him playing time and skill development at Casey. But we have been through that haven't we?

A more plausible proposition is that he is similar to Sam Weideman - a good VFL player who can kick well but not really up to AFL standard.

I am in that camp and think we should drop him and eventually see what picks we can get in the trading season. Turner is much better player than he is yet is not the first choice (down to poor coaching decisions).

I watched it at the Gee yesterday, what I saw were players willing to try, but too scared to make a mistake (thats what it seemed to me) like last week Rivers and Tmac played on but got caught because no one was giving advice or running with them,

I just think something smells fishy, Some players more interested in their profile in later life rather than now. As an instance Langford scored his first goal I think, How many of the team got around him, it should have been the whole blondy lot. Bit what I saw was only a few, If someone wants to dispute this fine I might be in error.

The major difference with the Demons of today and when we stole our flag is they do not seem to enjoy them selves out there. I must come from a long line of convicts because I see no problem in pinching a flag. Tomarto or Tomato we won winners are grinners. We were fantastic for about 3 years, but we were as bad as yesterday for 30 years or more.

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Was Jones the best person for the job? Or did we have our red and blue goggles on again?

Most coaches do some sort of apprenticeship before coaching at AFL.

Even just going to another club to be exposed to different cultures, thinking, strategies etc is really important.

It was a very strange choice but fits in with "the love boat theme"

9 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Fritsch is the obvious one to go !!! He cost us with missed tackles, missed shots and missed goals. Turn the opportunities in 3-4 goals and we were within a 2 goal reach at 3/4 time. Unfortunately once it blew out, the umps and suns turned up the heat.

Have been calling for this for some time.

In at least 9 games last year he had 2 possessions or less in the first half of games.

His weak efforts are a cancer in a team game.

Petty is close behind him.

11 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

We don’t have foot skills to execute such a plan.

To me the key problem is lack of running to create space.

Our players are always under the pump and you can't pinpoint passes in that scenario with any certainty.

Kicking a ball to a player in space is significantly easier

We also don't kick instinctively. Players stop, prop and its too late. That's confidence.

It doesn't explain the missed tackles, lack of talk and dropping of chest marks, handballing to players feet etc

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

To me the key problem is lack of running to create space.

Our players are always under the pump and you can't pinpoint passes in that scenario with any certainty.

Kicking a ball to a player in space is significantly easier

We also don't kick instinctively. Players stop, prop and its too late. That's confidence.

It doesn't explain the missed tackles, lack of talk and dropping of chest marks, handballing to players feet etc

Our Training methods and fitness are not good enough, the standards need to be lifted.

We do not spread and run, like top sides do automatically

And that then flows through the entire gameplan

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Our Training methods and fitness are not good enough, the standards need to be lifted.

We do not spread and run, like top sides do automatically

And that then flows through the entire gameplan

Is the lack of spread and run purely a fitness thing?

3 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Is the lack of spread and run purely a fitness thing?

It’s got to be a large part of it. Desire to win each contest is also part of it…

11 hours ago, waynewussell said:

There was lots of movement to provide the ball carrier with options. Everyone was moving! This is not what we are seeing on game day! To put it simply, the players aren't executing the plan.

Stating the obvious but you do need to have the cattle with the mindset and often the talent capable of executing under pressure.

Surely part of the capability to execute is on the coach and his program?

Of course some have a natural capability / talent to bring it from track to game day consistently. While some don't and may need alot of extra work on the track. Others less gifted may not make it at all no matter how much work is done.

Alot of this above the shoulders of course.

No doubt a very tough gig but they are getting paid to do a job.

And so are Simon, Richo, Line Coaches etc.

And some of the less talented will make up for this with massive effort that can sometimes see them outperforming even the more innately talented around them.

Swooper was one helluva coach in this regard in terms of seemingly getting so much extra effort and performance (white line fever!) out of what appeared to be some meat n potatoe players that may not have made it under a less capable coach.

Edited Sunday at 10:163 days by Demon Dynasty

8 hours ago, Born to Run said:

I wonder when the last time was that we lost consecutive games by more than 58 points (near enough ten goals)? I assume it’s a fair while ago. Further, that it was against Nth and Gc (away) makes it more striking.

I might be wrong, but on my brief check just now we haven't lost two games by 58+ points since Rounds 21-22, 2014 (we lost Round 21 to GWS by 64 and then Round 22 to West Coast by 66).

I had expected it to have happened in 2019 but was surprised to find that we only lost one game that year by more than 53, and only two by more than 41.

Closest I could find was Rounds 4 and 5 in 2018, when we lost to Hawthorn by 67 and backed it up by losing to Richmond by 46. We then won our next 6, scoring over 100 each week...

Where's Simon's Sign Off segment??

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Where's Simon's Sign Off segment??

I don’t think the sight of a wooden spoon stirring the Spaghetti Bolognese would be a good look right now….😊