"We aren't great at any phase of the game"

[The Taciturn Demon 578]

On the one hand, when you finish fifth last, that's kind of obvious.

On the other - yikes. 

Is everyone expecting something very new next year, style wise?

[DubDee 26,117]

who is that quote from?

[The Taciturn Demon 578]

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

who is that quote from?

Goodwin. 

[rpfc 28,765]

For those that need the explanation; there are 3 phases. With the ball, without the ball, and in dispute/contest.

With the ball we were slow and boring and stilted and bottom 4.

Without the ball we are much better but still allowed sling shot goals when we overcommitted forward in the press. Top half but still not as good as we have been.

In dispute we have been chaotic. The red mist was back when we did get it and there wasn’t much time or reason for how we would move it. And there were also times when we would get flogged in contested possessions and clearances for quarters at a time. Probably middle 6 ranking for that. 

So I think it tracks. 

But you might want to put a link in.

 

[Rednblueriseing 825]

18 minutes ago, rpfc said:

For those that need the explanation; there are 3 phases. With the ball, without the ball, and in dispute/contest.

With the ball we were slow and boring and stilted and bottom 4.

Without the ball we are much better but still allowed sling shot goals when we overcommitted forward in the press. Top half but still not as good as we have been.

In dispute we have been chaotic. The red mist was back when we did get it and there wasn’t much time or reason for how we would move it. And there were also times when we would get flogged in contested possessions and clearances for quarters at a time. Probably middle 6 ranking for that. 

So I think it tracks. 

But you might want to put a link in.

 

Is this fixable in 1 off season or are we delusional thinking we can make the 8 with aging stars ?

[jnrmac 20,185]

19 minutes ago, rpfc said:

For those that need the explanation; there are 3 phases. With the ball, without the ball, and in dispute/contest.

With the ball we were slow and boring and stilted and bottom 4.

Without the ball we are much better but still allowed sling shot goals when we overcommitted forward in the press. Top half but still not as good as we have been.

In dispute we have been chaotic. The red mist was back when we did get it and there wasn’t much time or reason for how we would move it. And there were also times when we would get flogged in contested possessions and clearances for quarters at a time. Probably middle 6 ranking for that. 

So I think it tracks. 

But you might want to put a link in.

 

This encapsulates it really...

 

Statement of fact from Goodwin. They are aware of our shortcomings which is good. Look fwd to seeing how they address them

[jnrmac 20,185]

1 minute ago, Rednblueriseing said:

Is this fixable in 1 off season or are we delusional thinking we can make the 8 with aging stars ?

Of course it is

[The Taciturn Demon 578]

20 minutes ago, rpfc said:

For those that need the explanation; there are 3 phases. With the ball, without the ball, and in dispute/contest.

With the ball we were slow and boring and stilted and bottom 4.

Without the ball we are much better but still allowed sling shot goals when we overcommitted forward in the press. Top half but still not as good as we have been.

In dispute we have been chaotic. The red mist was back when we did get it and there wasn’t much time or reason for how we would move it. And there were also times when we would get flogged in contested possessions and clearances for quarters at a time. Probably middle 6 ranking for that. 

So I think it tracks. 

But you might want to put a link in.

Good summary. 

Sorry - here's the interview where Goodwin says this: https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/1705825/agm-afl-football-update-goodwin?videoId=1705825&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1734497092001

[The Taciturn Demon 578]

2 minutes ago, Rednblueriseing said:

Is this fixable in 1 off season or are we delusional thinking we can make the 8 with aging stars ?

That's definitely what concerns me.

It seems almost as if we're trying something entirely new without changing the coach. I don't hate that option, but at first glance it seems like a two or three year project - if we do lots right. 

[rpfc 28,765]

15 minutes ago, Rednblueriseing said:

Is this fixable in 1 off season or are we delusional thinking we can make the 8 with aging stars ?

 

12 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Of course it is

It’s fixable. But ‘fixable = top 4’ is what you’re asking. 

If we are patient and can put up with the occasional complete collapse away from what they want to do without the team reverting back to ‘tried and true’ boring nothing footy, then, yes, we can get there in 2025.

I would say for young teams that the cattle will be the problem but ours have smelled that paddock before - they can get back there if they all commit.

[sue 9,139]

Has the Premiership winner always been great in all phases of the game.  Or just great in one, and pretty good in the others?  Or even pretty good in all three?

[deelusions from afar 1,861]

I think the trickiest part will be in the adopting the changes to the game plan - from what we know, it looks like we will look to attack quick off the backline, playing on from marks, more agressive in our kicks forward etc which leads to more gettable shots at goal but also open to the counter attack when it doesn't come off.

I feel like we were trying to do some of this early last year but basically didn't have the cattle / fitness.

It took us around 2 years (2019/2020) to learn our 2021 premiership system.  I feel like we have a better basis to work from (eg better defence etc) so maybe we can adopt this shift a bit quicker?

[jnrmac 20,185]

31 minutes ago, rpfc said:

 

It’s fixable. But ‘fixable = top 4’ is what you’re asking. 

If we are patient and can put up with the occasional complete collapse away from what they want to do without the team reverting back to ‘tried and true’ boring nothing footy, then, yes, we can get there in 2025.

I would say for young teams that the cattle will be the problem but ours have smelled that paddock before - they can get back there if they all commit.

We lost 4 games against top 8 sides by a kick. We aren't that far away. And that is with just about everything going wrong for us in 2024.

The question was "Is this fixable in 1 off season or are we delusional thinking we can make the 8 with aging stars ?"

The answer is of course it is fixable. Getting our key players back on the park play their best footy is the first key. The second is adjusting the game plan which is never as difficult as people seem to think.

Thirdly we have a pretty easy draw that should see us 6-2 or 7-1. That momentum should see us make the 8 easily. We only play one 2024 top side twice and supposedly have the second easiest draw.

If you look at which players improved or maintained excellence in 2024 (excl 1st year players) it is a very small list; Viney, Rivers, TMac, Langdon, Gawn and maybe McVee. There is a lot of upside for many of our players.

That we are 14th in flag betting at 26 to 1 is ridiculous.

we should be very optimistic about our chances in 2025

 

[The Taciturn Demon 578]

19 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

It took us around 2 years (2019/2020) to learn our 2021 premiership system. 

Do you feel the Football Department looked at 2018 and said "That was great, but it won't win us a flag?"

[deelusions from afar 1,861]

10 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Do you feel the Football Department looked at 2018 and said "That was great, but it won't win us a flag?"

Definitely - Lever was already at the club but had done his knee so (from memory) we were relying on Frost / O Mac as our key defensive posts who did a great job in most matches.  We had a young talented midfield but hadn't structured the game plan to suit our list.

2019 was a disaster in terms of lots of players needing surgery in the off season and so we didn't have a great pre-season.  As we know our game plan was structured around contest and defence - when you have Track, Oliver and Gawn in the middle and May / Lever in defence it makes sense.  But we didn't evolve in '22 and so have been found out ever since (despite being bloody close last year even with significant injuries).

[Whispering_Jack 30,640]

The good thing is that today's date is 20 December 2024 and they play the Grand Final on  27 September 2025.

If I remember correctly, we weren't great at any phase of the game on 20 December 2020 either.

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

We have been playing static 60s style football for a while. Mark then go back & take your kick.

May kicks out to his left to Max 99% of the time.

[jnrmac 20,185]

1 hour ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Do you feel the Football Department looked at 2018 and said "That was great, but it won't win us a flag?"

They said "we wont win a flag with Frost and OMac as our two key defenders" hence they went and got May to add to a young Lever

Edited Friday at 02:31 by jnrmac

[Tarax Club 3,957]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

I would say for young teams that the cattle will be the problem but ours have smelled that paddock before - they can get back there if they all commit.

Recent scenes a Gosch's give cause for optimism.

[drdrake 3,187]

Our game plan was based around winning the contested ball, mainly at stoppages. We backed ourselves in to win the contested ball and when that stopped happening we couldn't set up aggressively behind the footy and the ball just exited our forward 50 at a rapid rate.

Lot of factors our 2 main big body mids had injuries, unfit, issues, was viney and second string mids at the contest.

If Oliver and Petracca stay fit, May, Lever, Petty stay fit and the young talent improves no reason why we can't rebound quickly

[kev martin 10,408]

I'm not sure if this is "click bait". I'll bite though. 

Phases of the game you mean start, middle, and end, or early in quarters, or in the time on period.

Other phases may be, transitioning, stoppages, boundary work, subbing, coming off and on, contested, zoning, holding, attacking, running down the clock, leading, pressure, taking risks, playing with flair, taking it on, performing when it is your time, communicating, scoring, intimidating, heckling, managing the score, managing the time, persuading the umpires, quarter time and half time periods, use of runner, changing up the style of play, protecting each other, turning the game, creating  momentum, engaging the crowd, quieting the crowd, watching yourself on the replay screen.

I am able to go on. "Not good at any phase", poor old Goody clutching at straws, a throw away line, in order to motivate and get the best out of the team.

For me, attending the game, watching on tv, or getting to training is my joy. Wanting  a competitive team is the pinnacle, not winning all and sundry. We have had a more than competitive team for years now. My hope is the others will take us for granted, and we get a game plan that surprises as we fall further away as the team to beat or replicate.

Love to see us come up with some unique methods. Winning and only finding joy in that, is for fools or the gamblers.

Love the team, whether they succeed or not.

Drink from the glass infront of you, half full,  half empty, overflowing or down to the last mouthfuls. At least you are drinking and not waiting till the cup fulfills your expectations. (Bathwater and fugazi, is best to avoid) 

 

Edited Friday at 03:29 by kev martin

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

2 hours ago, sue said:

Has the Premiership winner always been great in all phases of the game.  Or just great in one, and pretty good in the others?  Or even pretty good in all three?

Brisbane nearly won the flag in 2023 and finished top 4 for the best part of 5 or so years despite being poor in transition defending before it all came together enough late last year.

Geelong 2022 were heavily reliant on Dangerfield winding back the clock to really be a strong midfield contest side.

Brisbane have a heck of a list even if they just lost their most talented player. Sydney have a star studded midfield. Hawthorn are coming in a hurry. Freo are stacked. But otherwise the comp seems more open than it has been for a while so you don’t have to be near perfect.

The concern is to reach attacking competence with the current list won’t be easy. And it will open us up defensive when our defensive systems have long been based on keeping the ball in tight and good structure.

[Lucifers Hero 40,351]

The comment from Goodwin should end the rationalising on DL that finishing 14th wasn't too bad because ....... fill in whatever excuse people want.

The ladder doesn't lie.

But that was last year. 

I am quite confident of top 4 this year and a smokey chance to take out the GF.

[Ugottobekidding 1,193]

Goodwin has only himself to blame 

[buck_nekkid 6,046]

I thought the phases were in front of the ball, behind the ball, and in the contest.  That is, forwards, defence and midfield.  Last year we were poor in each of these, so a 5% improvement in any/each area could add significantly to our overall performance.