6 minutes ago, greenwaves said:

People conveniently ignore that fact

Was that before or after Mackie shut down the Farce.!!!

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

Well there are two versions of this 

1 Where these smoke there's fire

2 Smoke and Mirrors, nothing to see here!

I'm in the first camp on this one!

To be honest PF you were smelling smoke when we missed the finals, I don’t want to quote you but sure that you were firmly in the camp of - Sack them all, clean the place out burn the place down - Where there is smoke there must be fire 🔥. To this extent you got part of your wish come true  but a lot of it has been media blowing smoke up peoples backsides.

On 20/10/2024 at 11:01, waynewussell said:

I am angry! I'm angry at the ongoing regurgitation of the perceived sequence of events under the 'truth' banner. It is destabilising. It becomes fodder for those who can benefit from bringing the club to its knees. The fact that the parents of an AFL player can be 'disgruntled' over a clubs handling of a situation is hardly groundbreaking news. At any point in time a number of parents at each and every club will be disgruntled! Most parents have been disgruntled at some stage over the manner in which their child's school has handled some issue. That doesn't mean that they immediately rip the kid out of the environment and enrol the kid in another school. Outcomes are negotiated. This situation at MFC has been negotiated! I prefer to have faith in those at the club who have participated, rather than join a lynch-mob. I apologise for any disrespect I have shown, but I don't apologise for being angry!

The situation was bought upon the club by our own actions, whether Pert/board/FD whoever. Oliver was not disgruntled until we started shipping him around behind his back for the 2nd year in a row.

You want to talk about destabilising, look at the governance of the club.

21 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The situation was bought upon the club by our own actions, whether Pert/board/FD whoever. Oliver was not disgruntled until we started shipping him around behind his back for the 2nd year in a row.

You want to talk about destabilising, look at the governance of the club.

Whoever indeed - Are you a close personal friend of Clayton’s Dr. gonzo, perhaps a close confidant or just another anti club voice joining in on the bash the club rhetoric????

Edited October 21, 2024Oct 21 by DeeZone
Whoever

Just now, DeeZone said:

 

 

Again, an observation from the B&F.........not a friend told me, I have heard, a reliable source.....why was Clayton bouncing around at the B&F happily talking to supporters etc, Pert was there as well, if there was any genuine disgruntlement he could have not attended, as Trac did, and made an excuse.....he also put himself in the public eye at Caufield and answered the questions, some [censored] journalist felt like asking him in the off season and when he is trying to relax.

 

Seems the opinions in here closely reflect opinions about the club in general.

So...all this from a week or so back is water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.

I expect, given a clear run in preseason that Clarry will pick up the 10 coaches votes in the first game of the season.

..and then he and we're on our way.

I know it's a forum and everyone has a right to have their say, but do we really need to go on and on about this now?

...and for the rest of the preseason? it's going to be tedious.

It's done and dusted.

...and of course I don't have to read the thread, so I will go back to my standard position on this thread and for the most part steer clear.

5 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

You're implying we only went to Geelong and refused to speak to anyone else.

Geelong has kept tabs on Oliver all year. There have been reports that halfway through the year Oliver's manager asked if we were open to a trade and we shut it down.

Then once the season wrapped up everything seemed pretty relaxed. We were hearing reports that Oliver was ready to pay the club back and take off to some pre-season training camp. For whatever reason the club (Pert) completely fumbled the ball and decided to try and quietly ask a few other clubs what they reckon Oliver is worth.

Well, nothing stays quiet in this industry.

Turns out most clubs wanted nothing to do with Oliver, but Geelong, who had been courting him all year and were ready to pounce on an opportunity we gave them.

In the end the club shut it down, but not without a lot of self-inflicted damage that was completely unnecessary.

No, that's not what I was implying at all, and thank you for demonstrating my point.

It was Geelong showing interest in Clarrie, not Pert 'shopping him' to the cats as the media narrative suggests.

Of course we would've looked around knowing the cats were interested, it would be absolutely stupid not to a) get an idea on his value, and b) generate some sort of bidding war - if possible. Now for whatever reason, that little detail stayed very quiet in the media industry.

What I'm saying is the media narrative is quite obviously way off what exactly happened. The Pert stitch up seems way out of line to me, and I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch.

 

10 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

You are sounding like a Trump election denier.

I suppose Tom Stewart made up the story of meeting Oliver at Geelong while he visited their facilities.

No Franky, you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying in your desperation to remain cranky.

Clearly Geelong had an interest in Clarrie, and he had an interest in getting to them. What I'm saying is the media narrative of how things went down makes zero sense at all, as demonstrated by another poster having a crack at my comment.

5 minutes ago, BigBadBustling said:

No, that's not what I was implying at all, and thank you for demonstrating my point.

It was Geelong showing interest in Clarrie, not Pert 'shopping him' to the cats as the media narrative suggests.

Of course we would've looked around knowing the cats were interested, it would be absolutely stupid not to a) get an idea on his value, and b) generate some sort of bidding war - if possible. Now for whatever reason, that little detail stayed very quiet in the media industry.

What I'm saying is the media narrative is quite obviously way off what exactly happened. The Pert stitch up seems way out of line to me, and I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch.

 

And as I've said, if this version of events is true, then it means Oliver was actively seeking a way out of the club. Which leaves us with the reality that within two months our two highest paid stars were so disillusioned that they were trying to get out of the club, which is a pretty terrible position for us to find ourselves in.

2 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

And as I've said, if this version of events is true, then it means Oliver was actively seeking a way out of the club. Which leaves us with the reality that within two months our two highest paid stars were so disillusioned that they were trying to get out of the club, which is a pretty terrible position for us to find ourselves in.

Not disputing that at all, even though none of us really know what exactly happened. Essentially, the media narrative isn't what happened. The club's comments on it don't appear to be what actually happened, and Clarrie's own comments don't really align with what appears to have happened.

If we can somehow turn this around though, we'll be all the better for it.

It’s just a dam shame that problems were not fully sorted at the end of the ‘23 Season….

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The situation was bought upon the club by our own actions, whether Pert/board/FD whoever. Oliver was not disgruntled until we started shipping him around behind his back for the 2nd year in a row.

You want to talk about destabilising, look at the governance of the club.

[censored]!

Why is it that some like to ignore all the direct quotes from players and club but hold up media theories and secondhand info as gospel and jump all over those who question them. 
 

I have a theory. In their life time they had a media that was more trust worthy than it is now. They haven’t adjusted to the new media landscape. Which is basically there is no good information other than direct sources. The rest is dribble. As well as that they are of a generation in which the man leads and what he says goes and are therefore not all that used to being told they are full of you know what and struggle with the idea they could be wrong. Especially by a woman or those younger than them. As well as this they have this idea that they could do things better if only they had been given a chance, so they criticise, criticise, criticise. Like their dads did to them and their dads before them and so on and so forth.

 

In conclusion, how good is it we have Clarry and trac running around with the biggest preseason they’ve had in years. 
 

go Dees

6 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I know they love the footy club. I've bumped into them from time to time and have known then since Oliver's under 18's days. They have nothing but love for the footy club.

And good on her saying that, but if the old man is saying otherwise then it's up people to choose what they want to believe. 

Simply passing on what's been said.

That's not what you said earlier in this thread - you said the Oliver family/camp (not just dad) were incredibly disgruntled. Big change!

one wonders what role connors played in all this

there was a nice pot of money in this for him ... maybe follow the money

just sayin

14 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

On the first day of trading every media organisation reported Clarry was being shopped around by Pert possibly to Geelong.

Tom Stewart admitted meeting Clarry when he toured the Cats facility.

Pert declined to scotch the rumours.

After a week of brouhaha Brad Green released a statement saying the Board had met & decided Clarry would not be traded.

Several commentators have called for Pert's resignation over the matter.

Do try & keep up 58er.

Interesting

Andrew Mackie: ‘We contacted Pert and Clayton’s manager regularly about Clayton for over two years, escalating in the past two months. We had Clayton have a phone call with our senior administrators and go out to a farm to be pitched by our players.

Sounds more like Geelong contacting Pert than Pert shopping him around.

The only report I saw re contact with Tom Stewart was at Stanleys farm.

13 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

And I have heard exactly the same thing. I said earlier in a post: don't believe a fraction of what you read, including the whole premise of this thread.

I read an interesting article about  how the so called Heisenberg observer effect impacts the efficacy of polling:

"[E]very attempt to study how people think and act has the potential to influence how they think and act, thus changing what is being recorded, either in self-fulfilling or self-negating ways. The results of any poll on a particular issue are liable to change how people think about that issue, just as any poll showing a candidate’s popularity is liable to influence that candidate’s popularity."

I reckon the same effect is at work with the feedback loop between the gossip churned out by McClure, Morris, Barrett, Cornes (collective noun - mongers) etc etc and supporters.

The media's current narrative about Oliver wanting out (and before that tracc and koz) is the perfect example of what I mean:

As most acknowledge, the mongers goal is to create a story that generates engagement (as measured by clicks, opens, retweets, ratings etc etc) - ideally a story that has a long shelf life so they can wring every last click out of it.

That's the starting point

The mongers know what will drive engagement, ie what the punters want - angst, division, rumour, conflict, gossip, crisis, confirmation of biases etc etc.

And craft the initial story, and subsequent stories, accordingly. 

Football fans consume the stories, most uncritically and accept supposition as fact ('where there's smoke!!!!!').

Football forums, social media, comment sections, group text groups and sports radio is flooded with fans parroting amd amplifying the monger's narrative.

The monger's editors know they're on a winner and tell the mongers to keep producing content about Oliver, particularly given the paucity of real news in the trade period.

And the cycle continues.

After a relatively short period it is accepted fact that Pert shopped Oliver, that claz desperately wanted to get to the cats and, absurdly, there was actually a reasonable chance claz got to the cats (I mean, for all manner of reasons, the chances were vanishingly small of oliver leaving given how late in the year this played out - ditto tracc)

But suprise, suprise, the breathless group think proves to be nonsense- claz is staying.

Yet the mongers know there's still plenty of juice left in the lemon.

In fact, there's at least another 12 months worth of self reinforcing feedback loops and where there's smoke click bait content to be had

A feedback loop where even a story about clarry saying he is keen to get going, looking forward to next year, pumping up tracc, pumping up our chances etc etc is interpreted by some as supporting the monger's narrative ('what else is he going to say?' 'Read between the lines' blah blah blah).

The beauty of the monger's approach is that even in the face of contradictory evidence (eg clarry is staying) their narrative remains unchanged, unchallenged and uncriticised - even by many dees fans.

Like doomsday day cults always extending the date the world is going to end, the narrative now seamlessly shifts to claz leaving at the end of the 2025 season (ditto tracc and koz).

The other genius thing about the monger's method is many people who bought into the claz is gone narrative will, despite it having just been proven wrong, continue to parrot and amplify the monger's messaging. 

A great irony is some of will accuse those who dont buy into the monger's narrative of being naive pollyannas who, unlike them, are not realists or critical thinkers.

Edited October 21, 2024Oct 21 by binman

15 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You've completely botched the way you're reading into this because I haven't slagged the club off in how they've handled it.

If you actually take the time to read, I'm actually praising the club for going way above for their ongoing support and instead my criticism has been on Oliver with his off field behaviour and antics previously. 

What I said weeks ago which you're referencing, is exactly how the family felt of the club last year after the [censored] hit the fan. They were truly grateful for the support of the club especially Simon Goodwin towards Oliver even though his off field antics caused those inside the club and his family absolute grief.

This year purely started off the back of Gary Pert simply asking a few questions to a few player agents coaches one being (Ross Lyon was one being close friends from Fitzroy days) and it caught not only Oliver camp blindsided but Goodwin and Richo too.

As I said previously, his exit interview was robust and strong but also healthy in the way that he was in a much better state then this time last year and both parties walked out satsified heading into the new year with hope of a full pre season. Got his off field program all sorted and there was no issues.

Because of the way it all unfolded, the Oliver camp were extremely disappointed so they decided to test the market and that's when Geelong came to the party and they both met up. After his initial meeting he was set on going to Geelong but his management team never requested a trade because the asking price was too much for Geelong in the middle of trying to deal with Bailey Smith. It was only ever a 50/50 and talk died once we set the price.

This is why there is tensions with Gary Pert at the helm which has caused fractions internally. He instigated all this which blindsided a few key people within club including Richo, Goodwin, Green and Oliver which he and his family were incredibly hurt by.

 

Appreciate the effort made to lay out in full your understanding of the situation.

With (of course) all the usual caveats about information on forums, I'm comfortable saying that if Gary Pert has been doing backgrounding and raising player trades without explicit consultation with the footy department then he has to be dismissed.

The problem is sorting such facts from the white-anting campaign which has been the backdrop for all club politics for the last five years. 

18 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

That's not what you said earlier in this thread - you said the Oliver family/camp (not just dad) were incredibly disgruntled. Big change!

Go back and read properly. This was prior to the Pert sourcing our trade talk they were happy with the club support around Oliver especially dating back to last year when he went off the rails and Goodwin gave him some tough love but also wrapped his full support around him.

So of course Clayton and his family were completely blind sided and were pretty disappointed with how it all played out and still are.

Can i just remind you that this all comes back on Gary Perts decision to bypass the likes of Green, Goodwin and Clayton's management which had caused tensions internally.

I'll be incredibly shocked if Pert is with us come round 1 next year. That part is based off my own personal opinion and nothing else.

.

Edited October 21, 2024Oct 21 by greenwaves

9 minutes ago, binman said:

I read an interesting article about  how the so called Heisenberg observer effect impacts the efficacy of polling:

"[E]very attempt to study how people think and act has the potential to influence how they think and act, thus changing what is being recorded, either in self-fulfilling or self-negating ways. The results of any poll on a particular issue are liable to change how people think about that issue, just as any poll showing a candidate’s popularity is liable to influence that candidate’s popularity."

I reckon the same effect is at work with the feedback loop between the gossip churned out by McClure, Morris, Barrett, Cornes (collective noun - mongers) etc etc and supporters.

The media's current narrative about Oliver wanting out (and before that tracc and koz) is the perfect example of what I mean:

As most acknowledge, the mongers goal is to create a story that generates engagement (as measured by clicks, opens, retreats, ratings etc etc) - ideally a story that has a shelf life so they can wrong every last click out of it.

That's the starting point

The mongers know what will drive engagement, ie what the punters want - angst, division, rumour, conflict, gossip, crisis, confirmation of biases etc etc.

And so craft the initial story, and subsequent stories, accordingly. 

Football fans consume the stories, most uncritically and accept supposition as fact ('where there's smoke!!!!!').

Football forums, social media, comment sections, group text groups and sports radio is flooded with fans parroting amd amplifying the monger's narrative.

The monger's editors know they're on a winner and tell the mongers to keep producing content about Oliver, particularly given the paucity of real news in the trade period.

And the cycle continues.

After a relatively short period of time it is accepted fact that Pert shopped Oliver, that after that claz desperately wanted to get to the cats and, absurdly, there was actually a reasonable chance claz got to the cats (I mean, for all manner of reason, the chances were vanishingly small chance of oliver leaving given how late in the year this played our - ditto tracc)

But suprise, suprise, the breathless group think oroves to be nonsense- claz is staying.

Yet the mongers know there's still plenty of juice left in the lemon.

In fact, there's at least another 12 months worth of self reinforcing feedback loops and where there's smoke click bait content.

A feedback loop where even a story about clarry saying he us keen to get going, looking forward to next year, pumping up tracc, pumping up our chances etc etc is interpreted by some as supporting the monger's narrative ('what else is he going to say?' 'Read between the lines' blah blah blah).

The beauty of the monger's approach is the way that even in the face of contradicting evidence (eg clarry is staying) their narrative remains unchanged, unchallenged and uncriticised - even by many dees fans.

Like doomsday day cults always extending the date the world is going to end, the narrative now seamlessly shifts to claz leaving at season's end (ditto tracc and koz).

The other genius thing about the monger's method is many people who have bought into the claz is gone narrative will, despite it having just been proven wrong, will continue to amplify the monger's messaging.

A great irony is some of those people will accuse those who choose not to holus bolus buy into the monger's narrative of being naive pollyannas who, unlike them, are not realists or critical thinkers.

So crystal clear! Outstanding summary of the process and roles within the process. Give the (bin)man a cigar!

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

This is why there is tensions with Gary Pert at the helm which has caused fractions internally. He instigated all this which blindsided a few key people within club including Richo, Goodwin, Green and Oliver which he and his family were incredibly hurt by.

 

What the family should be hurt by was their son spending night after day at revolver for a full summer

39 minutes ago, von said:

Why is it that some like to ignore all the direct quotes from players and club but hold up media theories and secondhand info as gospel and jump all over those who question them. 

Like this direct quote from Tom Stewart;

“It was good, obviously any sort of talent we can attract to the club is important for us, so I had the opportunity to meet with him and it is an interesting thing for me in my stage of the career, but it went well, he’s a good man"