Jump to content

Featured Replies

Posted

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/10/13/lions-footy-boss-open-to-cap-on-six-year-plus-mega-deals/

I have finally found something that I agree with Corn on. I'm not sure of the legalities of it, but implementing a 5 year max on contracts makes a lot of sense to me.

More players than ever before are retiring on medical grounds (eg. concussion). The AFL currently may help with annually decreasing Salary Cap relief, but we, for example, need to factor in Gus' wage for years to come. 

Other health and attitudinal changes can also come into play and hurt a club for years. It will largely curtail the more ridiculous carrots being dangled to players from other clubs and bring a sanity back into player transfer and recruitment. 

Thoughts?

 

Yeah Nah ... Jacob Weitering just signed and extension to stay a Blue until the end of 2031.

Honestly, I think it depends on the player. Some I feel comfortable signing long-term, most I don't.

Medical retirements are another issue that needs some type of specific regime created.

Medical retirements needs some extra clauses in the contract.

 
  • Author
  On 13/10/2024 at 23:37, Fritta and Turner said:

Medical retirements needs some extra clauses in the contract.

Not sure the AFLPA will come at that. In a combative, high injury risk sport, I just believe clubs need to be protected from themselves. The salary cap is designed to produce a (supposedly) level playing field, so the only bargaining tool clubs have is to offer a longer contract than their competition. 

The AFL don't like long contracts, so won't offer protection past the first couple of years. A retirement invoking injury to a long contracted player will harm a club for many years. It's bound to happen.

  On 14/10/2024 at 00:57, Palace Dees said:

Not sure the AFLPA will come at that. In a combative, high injury risk sport, I just believe clubs need to be protected from themselves. The salary cap is designed to produce a (supposedly) level playing field, so the only bargaining tool clubs have is to offer a longer contract than their competition. 

The AFL don't like long contracts, so won't offer protection past the first couple of years. A retirement invoking injury to a long contracted player will harm a club for many years. It's bound to happen.

Not sure anyone is asking them to come at it.


The long term contracts are fine. 

Where the AFL is amateur hour is that clubs can't forcibly trade a player in a long term contract to a desitination of their choice but a player can hold their club to ransom by demanding a trade somewhere of their choosing....

and worse still the media actively support the players wishes as opposed to the club who is paying said player $50-$100k per month! 

Also, the league/clubs/players should be insuring themselves suitably to minimise the financial risk of early retirement.

Angus should continue to get paid whatever his contract was until it concludes, outside of any salary caps and not from MFC's bottom line because:

  1. His injury occurred in the field of play 
  2. Was not borne of his own error 
  3. The contact from the other involved party was avoidable and of severe and unneccesary force 
  On 13/10/2024 at 12:57, Palace Dees said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/10/13/lions-footy-boss-open-to-cap-on-six-year-plus-mega-deals/

I have finally found something that I agree with Corn on. I'm not sure of the legalities of it, but implementing a 5 year max on contracts makes a lot of sense to me.

More players than ever before are retiring on medical grounds (eg. concussion). The AFL currently may help with annually decreasing Salary Cap relief, but we, for example, need to factor in Gus' wage for years to come. 

Other health and attitudinal changes can also come into play and hurt a club for years. It will largely curtail the more ridiculous carrots being dangled to players from other clubs and bring a sanity back into player transfer and recruitment. 

Thoughts?

Disagree with the cap, autonomy should remain with the clubs. 

 

I'm coming round on this.  When we signed Petracca and Oliver to long term deals they had both been extremely durable.  In some respects the long contracts have saved us in keeping them.

But to get the long contracts, you are paying them big coin which - if they continue to play at the high level - is worth it.  But some players are not going to stay as hungry when they have that security.  I'm not saying that applies to Trac and Oliver - I'm backing them to have big years next year.  

But they've both had significant injuries / trauma / battles to deal with in recent times - if they don't deliver then we won't be able to trade them (without paying a bulk of their salary).

At the same time - they would've looked a fairly safe bet when we signed them (on output to date) and probably had rival offers that forced our hand.  

Surely if the AFL mandate a retirement eg Gus, then there must be some generous relief of salary cap, even if the club still needs to pay out the full salary.   The salary cap is "artificial", and invention of the governing body, so mandated retirements retaining cap payments just makes no sense.

I have zero doubt that had Buddy Franklin had a career ending injury in the first year of his mega deal at $ydney they would have tweaked the rules.


  On 17/10/2024 at 11:05, monoccular said:

Surely if the AFL mandate a retirement eg Gus, then there must be some generous relief of salary cap, even if the club still needs to pay out the full salary.   The salary cap is "artificial", and invention of the governing body, so mandated retirements retaining cap payments just makes no sense.

I have zero doubt that had Buddy Franklin had a career ending injury in the first year of his mega deal at $ydney they would have tweaked the rules.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1153880/clubs-to-get-cap-relief-for-medically-retired-players

They have. But for 3 years after retirement. So the AFL are sending the message be careful with guys on longer than 4 year deals.

The AFL are also struggling to find income insurance for concussed players. Which is linked to the above. They don't want players trying to claim huge sums of money in lost earnings.

I'm all for a 5 year cap because the AFL have created these mega deals with free agency.

When you have to trade for a player you have to give up valuable picks, so offering 7, 8, 9 year deals on top of that is a mammoth cost.

Free agency meant clubs got players for free which is why they felt they could risk the mega deals. Then of course to stave off players leaving clubs started to give those deals to their own players too.

I think a simple solution is your draft deal goes for 3 years (with the last year or two team options for later picks), after which you can negotiate an extension for up to another 3 years.

Free agency comes in at 24. You can sign for max 5 years and after each season you can tack on an additional year if you and the club agree. At 30 you can sign for max 4 years again. At 31 you can sign for 3 years max.

The AFLPA (and especially managers) won't like it but the trade off is you're giving players free agency at 24. The prime aged players will make the most money which is what the league should want

Just make it so that years 6, 7 or more are pro-rated against year 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 in terms of how the AFL monitors the salary cap -- so you can still do a 6+ year deal, but all of that deal is treated as years 1-5 in the cap -- prevents lawsuits about "restraint of trade" and so on -- but perhaps that might introduce distortions in years 6+ so ... maybe ... dunno ... LOL

  On 17/10/2024 at 13:48, DeeSpencer said:

I'm all for a 5 year cap because the AFL have created these mega deals with free agency.

Yep the Free Agency has been a bust but we are now seeing long term deals for relatively young players.

Eagles would give Harley R a ten year deal in a heartbeat and McAndrew just signed a five year extension making it a six year deal at age 20. (Ironic given that the Suns only exist on AFL handouts).

Insurance could be the answer but I suspect rates are through the roof these days. 

Surprisingly professional sports people often fall outside Workers compensation schemes.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/people-human-resources/injured-sports-stars-not-entitled-workers-compensation/


  On 18/10/2024 at 00:35, Diamond_Jim said:

Yep the Free Agency has been a bust but we are now seeing long term deals for relatively young players.

Eagles would give Harley R a ten year deal in a heartbeat and McAndrew just signed a five year extension making it a six year deal at age 20. (Ironic given that the Suns only exist on AFL handouts).

Insurance could be the answer but I suspect rates are through the roof these days. 

Surprisingly professional sports people often fall outside Workers compensation schemes.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/people-human-resources/injured-sports-stars-not-entitled-workers-compensation/

Mac’s deal apparently has language for retirement due to concussion. 

And yeah it’s 5 years until he’s a free agent with another 4 as an option post that.

If free agency came at 24 he’d sign until he was 24 then do 5+ years from there. And I’d be happy to restrict that to 5.

Actually refining the system what I’d suggest is free agents can only be offered 5 years. But teams can resign their own players the year before they hit free agency.

So a 23 year old can sign with their current team for what is effectively 6. But once they’re 24 it’s 5 years.

Really what I want to see is clubs encouraged to have their best players signed from 24-29 and massive deals for young players <23 who haven’t earned them or super long deals for 26 year olds that go until guys are well over 30 are discouraged. 

  • 1 month later...

No one is holding a gun to the clubs head.

If a club wants a long contract it is reasonable to have clauses regarding career ending injuries.

Thinking on the run, all players are employed by the AFL and the clubs inform the AFL of the percentage of salary cap that each player gets. No payments from clubs to players.

  On 10/12/2024 at 23:18, ManDee said:

If a club wants a long contract it is reasonable to have clauses regarding career ending injuries.

A gun player would never sign such a contract. The best you might do is have a clause amortising the injury years over a number of years thus spreading the salary cap risk

The small clubs would suffer with a cap. 

More gun players moving to the Cats and Pies for free via FA

No thanks

  On 18/10/2024 at 00:35, Diamond_Jim said:

Yep the Free Agency has been a bust but we are now seeing long term deals for relatively young players.

Eagles would give Harley R a ten year deal in a heartbeat and McAndrew just signed a five year extension making it a six year deal at age 20. (Ironic given that the Suns only exist on AFL handouts).

Insurance could be the answer but I suspect rates are through the roof these days. 

Surprisingly professional sports people often fall outside Workers compensation schemes.

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/people-human-resources/injured-sports-stars-not-entitled-workers-compensation/

Aside from the concussion issue isn't the point that players now just walk away from these long term deals when they feel like it? If you sign a long term deal then only exceptional circumstances should allow you out of it


I think there is space for a very wide rethink of how contracts are constructed.

It all seems very ad hoc, and very much just an accumulated legacy as the league went from semi-professional to professional to 'marketplace'.

Doesn't help that the AFL administration is addicted to reactive tweaks.

At the simplest level every contract needs to succeed at giving both the player and the club security in an environment where a player's 'worth' can dramatically turn in the space of minutes, never mind years.

I wonder how much of the current chaos, minutiae, and confusion could be boiled down to just a few key points?

 

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

Featured Content

  • PREVIEW: Essendon

    As the focus of the AFL moves exclusively to South Australia for Gather Round, the question is raised as to what are we going to get from the  Melbourne Football Club this weekend? Will it be a repeat of the slop fest of the last three weeks that have seen the team score a measly 174 points and concede 310 or will a return to the City of Churches and the scene where they performed at their best in 2024 act as a wakeup call and bring them out of their early season reverie?  Or will the sleepy Dees treat their fans to a reenactment of their lazy effort from the first Gather Round of two years ago when they allowed the Bombers to trample all over them on a soggy and wet Adelaide Oval? The two examples from above tell us how fickle form can be in football. Last year, a committed group of players turned up in Adelaide with a businesslike mindset. They had a plan, went in confidently and hard for the football and kicked winning scores against both home teams in a difficult environment for visitors. And they repeated that sort of effort later in the season when they played Essendon at the MCG.

      • Thanks
      • Like
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • PREGAME: Essendon

    Facing the very real and daunting prospect of starting the season with five straight losses, the Demons head to South Australia for the annual Gather Round, where they’ll take on the Bombers in search of their first win of the year. Who comes in, and who comes out?

      • Thanks
    • 489 replies
    Demonland
  • NON-MFC: Round 05

    Gather Round is here, kicking off with a Thursday night blockbuster as Adelaide faces Geelong. The Crows will be out for redemption after a controversial loss last week. Saturday starts with the Magpies taking on the Swans. Collingwood will be eager to cement their spot in the top eight, while Sydney is hot on their heels. In the Barossa Valley, two rising sides go head-to-head in a fascinating battle to prove they're the real deal. Later, Carlton and West Coast face off at Adelaide Oval, both desperate to notch their first win of the season. The action then shifts to Norwood, where the undefeated Lions will aim to keep their streak alive against the Bulldogs. Sunday’s games begin in the Barossa with Richmond up against Fremantle. In Norwood, the Saints will be looking to take a scalp when they come up against the Giants. The round concludes with a fiery rematch of last year's semi-final, as the Hawks seek revenge for their narrow loss to Port Adelaide. Who are you tipping this week and what are the best results for the Demons besides us winning?

      • Thanks
    • 179 replies
    Demonland
  • CASEY: Geelong

    There was a time in the second quarter of the game at the Cattery on Friday afternoon when the Casey Demons threatened to take the game apart against the Cats. The Demons had been well on top early but were struggling to convert their ascendancy over the ground until Tom Fullarton’s burst of three goals in the space of eight minutes on the way to a five goal haul and his best game for the club since arriving from Brisbane at the end of 2023. He was leading, marking and otherwise giving his opponents a merry dance as Casey grabbed a three goal lead in the blink of an eye. Fullarton has now kicked ten goals in Casey’s three matches and, with Melbourne’s forward conversion woes, he is definitely in with a chance to get his first game with the club in next week’s Gather Round in Adelaide. Despite the tall forward’s efforts - he finished with 19 disposals and eight marks and had four hit outs as back up to Will Verrall in the second half - it wasn’t enough as Geelong reigned in the lead through persistent attacks and eventually clawed their way to the lead early in the last and held it till they achieved the end aim of victory.

      • Like
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • REPORT: Geelong

    I was disappointed to hear Goody say at his post match presser after the team’s 39 point defeat against Geelong that "we're getting high quality entry, just poor execution" because Melbourne’s problems extend far beyond that after its 0 - 4 start to the 2025 football season. There are clearly problems with poor execution, some of which were evident well before the current season and were in play when the Demons met the Cats in early May last year and beat them in a near top-of-the-table clash that saw both sides sitting comfortably in the top four after round eight. Since that game, the Demons’ performances have been positively Third World with only five wins in 19 games with a no longer majestic midfield and a dysfunctional forward line that has become too easy for opposing coaches to counter. This is an area of their game that is currently being played out as if they were all completely panic-stricken.

      • Thanks
      • Like
    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • NON-MFC: Round 04

    Round 4 kicks off with a blockbuster on Thursday night as traditional rivals Collingwood and Carlton clash at the MCG, with the Magpies looking to assert themselves as early-season contenders and the Blues seeking their first win of the season. Saturday opens with Gold Coast hosting Adelaide, a key test for the Suns as they aim to back up their big win last week, while the Crows will be looking to keep their perfect record intact. Reigning wooden spooners Richmond have the daunting task of facing reigning premiers Brisbane at the ‘G and the Lions will be eager to reaffirm their premiership credentials after a patchy start. Saturday night sees North Melbourne take on Sydney at Marvel Stadium, with the Swans looking to build on their first win of the season last week against a rebuilding Roos outfit. Sunday’s action begins with GWS hosting West Coast at ENGIE Stadium, a game that could get ugly very early for the visitors. Port Adelaide vs St Kilda at Adelaide Oval looms as a interesting clash, with both clubs form being very hard to read. The round wraps up with Fremantle taking on the Western Bulldogs at Optus Stadium in what could be a fierce contest between two sides with top-eight ambitions. Who are you tipping this week and what are the best results for the Demons besides us winning?

      • Thanks
    • 273 replies
    Demonland