39 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Only 12 hours until the Oliver will leave in 2025 stories start.

 

oliver AND petracca

On 11/10/2024 at 20:18, Dr. Gonzo said:

Sorry, has the discussion moved on from whining about Barrett now?

There's plenty of reasons that Pert needs to go, main one is the poor culture he has presided over that has seen two of our top stars want to leave the club and the utter mismanagement of those two situations by the club. That's just for starters, you can also add in the rampant leaking of info to the media to try and sway supporters to the clubs narrative which has caused further divisions within the club. He hasn't hit any home runs anywhere else either, not great with sponsors, membership and crowds significantly down, no movement on a home base. He's emblematic of the basketcase the club is perceived as at the moment.

Who is saying there's poor culture?  The players?  Not a single player has complained publicly about culture, and in fact several have said how much they love the culture.  The staff? The ones I've spoken to are perplexed, Caitlin and Tam, who I deal with on a regular basis, have told me it's the best culture workplace they've worked in.  The media?  Ah!  The ones summising!

Robbo has always been more coherent in print than verbally.

19 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Robbo has always been more coherent in print than verbally.

much like me at work

39 minutes ago, biggestred said:

oliver AND petracca

Double the fun.

2 hours ago, djr said:

Good article by Robbo in the HS.

Mark Robinson: In the professional era, Clayton Oliver needs to accept he’ll be a Demon in 2025

The Dees have walked a tightrope with Clayton Oliver and he can whinge and moan if he wants about a failed trade, but he must be ready to give his best to the Dees in 2025, writes Mark Robinson.

Footy changed for many of us when Alastair Clarkson handballed two club greats – Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis – to other clubs at the end of the Hawks’ dynasty.

The four-time premiership heroes became commodities and they were no longer needed by Hawthorn.

With comforting words from Clarkson, it was basically off you go lads, thanks for everything.

Professionalism has grown year-on-year in this billion-dollar industry, but this was a different kind of professionalism. This was a ruthless business decision from a club looking after its best interests.

The romanticism of being a one-club player, and all those lovey-dovey words such as loyalty, camaraderie, integrity, respect and trust, didn’t mean much in the end.

Clubs do what they have to do – in their best interests.

Which brings us to Clayton Oliver.

I’m bored of the Oliver headlines generated by certain media people – presumably having spoken to Oliver’s management – wanting the football world to feel sorry for the Melbourne midfielder. Oh, Oliver doesn’t want to be there and wants to go to Geelong.

He will take a pay cut. And he’s cleaned out his locker.

All because he’s upset because the club decided to shop him.

Well, boo hoo. I find it difficult to feel sorry for Clayton Oliver. He’s got mental health woes, sure, but find someone in this world who hasn’t. That’s not being dismissive of Oliver’s issues, but it is the reality for everyone, for mental health is a national epidemic.

Oliver’s may be extreme, but at the same time, he has extremely high-level care and assistance available to help him.

For sure, Melbourne has had its challenges dealing with real-world problems in the cocoon world of AFL, but those challenges, in part, have been delivered on a platter by Oliver.

That’s not sheeting home all of Melbourne’s off-field drama to him, but there is a question to be asked: Did the bad culture influence Oliver or did Oliver help bring the bad culture?

The Demons have walked a tightrope with the 27-year-old for some time. Stupidly, they put him on a bumper deal that pays him $1.3 million per year when they were aware of his mental distress. His volcanic off-field behaviour may have come later.

For at least two years now, Melbourne has tried to help him. Medically and psychologically. They have cuddled him and cared for him. They have forgiven him and they encouraged him and they have also eyeballed him.

In turn, Oliver has let himself and the club down, although it must be said the Demons are thrilled with the maturity of Oliver throughout the year. Clearly, there’s people at Melbourne who wanted to trade him. And to think chief executive Gary Pert went lone wolf is laughable.

And there’s people at Melbourne who don’t want to give up on him and they include the club’s stand-in president Brad Green.

The fact is Melbourne shopped him. They let it be known that he was gettable if the price was right. As yet, there are no takers. And there won’t be this trade period.

Is it any surprise that the Demons were open to the idea?

They fluffed it by telling pork pies at the start of trade week, but other than that, they haven’t done too much wrong. Everyone lies – that’s another national epidemic – and they got caught out.

So, it looks like Oliver is staying, which brings us back to professionalism.

Football is a business, players are a commodity and, right now, Oliver is signed to a $1.3m-a-season contract. He can whinge and moan until the cows come home, but the expectation is that he returns for the 2025 season fit and energised to fulfil his contract at the Demons.

To be fair, Melbourne people say that despite the past 10 days of headlines, Oliver understands the situation. And he hopes – and the Demons hope – and footy hopes – that he rediscovers the form that had him rated as a top-10 player in the competition for many years.

Which brings us to Bailey Smith. He also has his mental health issues and also wants to get to Geelong. At 23, he said recently: “There’s a level of when you outgrow a place, or you just need a fresh change for whatever reason. I won’t get too deep into it. I feel like I’d be doing myself a disservice for the player I want to become and the person I want to become by staying in the same environment.”

We’re all for self-discovery, but the Bulldogs, who spent years managing Smith’s complex world, are all for looking after their best interests.

They want a pick better than Geelong’s No. 17, but that doesn’t look like eventuating.

Don’t send him to the draft. Take the pick and run. It’s a business, after all.

I think it’s a pathetic article.

Tells us nothing new.

Poorly written and uninformed.

27 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Who is saying there's poor culture?  The players?  Not a single player has complained publicly about culture, and in fact several have said how much they love the culture.  The staff? The ones I've spoken to are perplexed, Caitlin and Tam, who I deal with on a regular basis, have told me it's the best culture workplace they've worked in.  The media?  Ah!  The ones summising!

Well, if Caitlin and Tam are telling us it’s the best workplace ever, who are we to argue?? 

44 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Who is saying there's poor culture?  The players?  Not a single player has complained publicly about culture, and in fact several have said how much they love the culture.  The staff? The ones I've spoken to are perplexed, Caitlin and Tam, who I deal with on a regular basis, have told me it's the best culture workplace they've worked in.  The media?  Ah!  The ones summising!

You're right, it is normal for a player to be investigated by SIA for trafficking, other players to be implicated based on the messages found on his phone, a star player to go off the rails, another star player wanting out, players punching on in public, multiple leaks coming out of the club, a President stepping down after a disastrous radio interview after hearing not a peep for months, multiple court cases ongoing some with former administrators, serious allegations about the coaches behaviour in public and with the playing group - did I miss anything?

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're right, it is normal for a player to be investigated by SIA for trafficking, other players to be implicated based on the messages found on his phone, a star player to go off the rails, another star player wanting out, players punching on in public, multiple leaks coming out of the club, a President stepping down after a disastrous radio interview after hearing not a peep for months, multiple court cases ongoing some with former administrators, serious allegations about the coaches behaviour in public and with the playing group - did I miss anything?

So you're going to write off the culture of the entire club because one player was stupid enough to take drugs. Were these questions asked about Collingwood when 17 players were investigated in 2017?  Was Western Bulldogs questioned about their culture around Bailey Smith?  Collingwood last year with Ginnivan, who then when on to threaten to revenge porn the player who dobbed him in?  Or when some of their players made misogynistic Tiktoks?  Were Brisbane questioned about their culture when half their team sent explicit texts to each others' partners when they were in Vegas?  Were Port questioned about their culture when one of their players, high as a kite, thought he could fly and jumped to his dealth from a high rise balcony?  Are Essendon being questioned about their culture when Stringer was caught with gangland figures? Or GWS now while half their side is being suspended for inappropriate behaviour on end of season trip?Everything else you've cited there is based on rumour.  Do you want to know why we didn't hear from Roffey for months?  She was in hospital with COVID.  She told me that herself.  So, dear Mr Gonzo, tell me, why is Melbourne the only one being singled out?

Edited October 15, 20241 yr by Katrina Dee Fan

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're right, it is normal for a player to be investigated by SIA for trafficking, other players to be implicated based on the messages found on his phone, a star player to go off the rails, another star player wanting out, players punching on in public, multiple leaks coming out of the club, a President stepping down after a disastrous radio interview after hearing not a peep for months, multiple court cases ongoing some with former administrators, serious allegations about the coaches behaviour in public and with the playing group - did I miss anything?

No you didn't. You managed to compile each and every scurrilous rumour, whether supported by evidence or not, many of them promulgated by disaffected people with an axe to grind, whether or not they are potentially defamatory, whether or not they are over two years old - no, Dr G, you didn't miss anything. Congratulations. With supporters like you, who needs opponents.

Edited October 15, 20241 yr by Ollie fan

3 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

No you didn't. You managed to compile each and every scurrilous rumour, whether supported by evidence or not, many of them promulgated by disaffected people with an axe to grind, whether it not they are potentially defamatory, whether or not they are over two years old - no, Dr G, you didin't miss anything. Congratulations. With supporters like you, who needs opponents.

How can a rumour be supported by evidence? 

36 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Well, if Caitlin and Tam are telling us it’s the best workplace ever, who are we to argue?? 

Yes, but what does Karen think? 

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're right, it is normal for a player to be investigated by SIA for trafficking, other players to be implicated based on the messages found on his phone

It isn't just mfc players that may be implicated.

24 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're right, it is normal for a player to be investigated by SIA for trafficking, other players to be implicated based on the messages found on his phone, a star player to go off the rails, another star player wanting out, players punching on in public, multiple leaks coming out of the club, a President stepping down after a disastrous radio interview after hearing not a peep for months, multiple court cases ongoing some with former administrators, serious allegations about the coaches behaviour in public and with the playing group - did I miss anything?

Don't forget about a public brawl at Entrecote and May's embarrassing "we would've smoked them" line. 

3 hours ago, djr said:

Good article by Robbo in the HS.

Mark Robinson: In the professional era, Clayton Oliver needs to accept he’ll be a Demon in 2025

The Dees have walked a tightrope with Clayton Oliver and he can whinge and moan if he wants about a failed trade, but he must be ready to give his best to the Dees in 2025, writes Mark Robinson.

Footy changed for many of us when Alastair Clarkson handballed two club greats – Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis – to other clubs at the end of the Hawks’ dynasty.

The four-time premiership heroes became commodities and they were no longer needed by Hawthorn.

With comforting words from Clarkson, it was basically off you go lads, thanks for everything.

Professionalism has grown year-on-year in this billion-dollar industry, but this was a different kind of professionalism. This was a ruthless business decision from a club looking after its best interests.

The romanticism of being a one-club player, and all those lovey-dovey words such as loyalty, camaraderie, integrity, respect and trust, didn’t mean much in the end.

Clubs do what they have to do – in their best interests.

Which brings us to Clayton Oliver.

I’m bored of the Oliver headlines generated by certain media people – presumably having spoken to Oliver’s management – wanting the football world to feel sorry for the Melbourne midfielder. Oh, Oliver doesn’t want to be there and wants to go to Geelong.

He will take a pay cut. And he’s cleaned out his locker.

All because he’s upset because the club decided to shop him.

Well, boo hoo. I find it difficult to feel sorry for Clayton Oliver. He’s got mental health woes, sure, but find someone in this world who hasn’t. That’s not being dismissive of Oliver’s issues, but it is the reality for everyone, for mental health is a national epidemic.

Oliver’s may be extreme, but at the same time, he has extremely high-level care and assistance available to help him.

For sure, Melbourne has had its challenges dealing with real-world problems in the cocoon world of AFL, but those challenges, in part, have been delivered on a platter by Oliver.

That’s not sheeting home all of Melbourne’s off-field drama to him, but there is a question to be asked: Did the bad culture influence Oliver or did Oliver help bring the bad culture?

The Demons have walked a tightrope with the 27-year-old for some time. Stupidly, they put him on a bumper deal that pays him $1.3 million per year when they were aware of his mental distress. His volcanic off-field behaviour may have come later.

For at least two years now, Melbourne has tried to help him. Medically and psychologically. They have cuddled him and cared for him. They have forgiven him and they encouraged him and they have also eyeballed him.

In turn, Oliver has let himself and the club down, although it must be said the Demons are thrilled with the maturity of Oliver throughout the year. Clearly, there’s people at Melbourne who wanted to trade him. And to think chief executive Gary Pert went lone wolf is laughable.

And there’s people at Melbourne who don’t want to give up on him and they include the club’s stand-in president Brad Green.

The fact is Melbourne shopped him. They let it be known that he was gettable if the price was right. As yet, there are no takers. And there won’t be this trade period.

Is it any surprise that the Demons were open to the idea?

They fluffed it by telling pork pies at the start of trade week, but other than that, they haven’t done too much wrong. Everyone lies – that’s another national epidemic – and they got caught out.

So, it looks like Oliver is staying, which brings us back to professionalism.

Football is a business, players are a commodity and, right now, Oliver is signed to a $1.3m-a-season contract. He can whinge and moan until the cows come home, but the expectation is that he returns for the 2025 season fit and energised to fulfil his contract at the Demons.

To be fair, Melbourne people say that despite the past 10 days of headlines, Oliver understands the situation. And he hopes – and the Demons hope – and footy hopes – that he rediscovers the form that had him rated as a top-10 player in the competition for many years.

Which brings us to Bailey Smith. He also has his mental health issues and also wants to get to Geelong. At 23, he said recently: “There’s a level of when you outgrow a place, or you just need a fresh change for whatever reason. I won’t get too deep into it. I feel like I’d be doing myself a disservice for the player I want to become and the person I want to become by staying in the same environment.”

We’re all for self-discovery, but the Bulldogs, who spent years managing Smith’s complex world, are all for looking after their best interests.

They want a pick better than Geelong’s No. 17, but that doesn’t look like eventuating.

Don’t send him to the draft. Take the pick and run. It’s a business, after all.

Speculative rubbish. Both those players, in my opinion, left of their own accord, to their chosen path, quite successfully in my opinion. Both of them were mature enough to form their own opinions about how they were going to continue their attachment to their livelihood.

13 minutes ago, layzie said:

How can a rumour be supported by evidence? 

What evidence?

9 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

It isn't just mfc players that may be implicated.

According to AFL, around 150 players from all 18 clubs have been "excused" by systems to protect them.  Yet Melbourne is the issue.  

2 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

Don't forget about a public brawl at Entrecote and May's embarrassing "we would've smoked them" line. 

He didn't. He managed to include that, even though it is more than two years old ( in which time we had two top four finishes).

16 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

No you didn't. You managed to compile each and every scurrilous rumour, whether supported by evidence or not, many of them promulgated by disaffected people with an axe to grind, whether or not they are potentially defamatory, whether or not they are over two years old - no, Dr G, you didn't miss anything. Congratulations. With supporters like you, who needs opponents.

Generally, that is just tendency and relevance. 

1 minute ago, Ollie fan said:

He didn't. He managed to include that, even though it is more than two years old ( in which time we had two top four finishes).

Thank you kind overseer. 

17 minutes ago, Spirit of '87 said:

Yes, but what does Karen think? 

Their names are Caitlin Nobes (Media Dept) and Tamara Jade Quarmby (player sponsors).  Go ahead and ask their opinion.  I'm sure they wouldn't mind.  Given you seem skeptical.

Edited October 16, 20241 yr by Katrina Dee Fan

26 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

So you're going to write off the culture of the entire club because one player was stupid enough to take drugs. Were these questions asked about Collingwood when 17 players were investigated in 2017?  Was Western Bulldogs questioned about their culture around Bailey Smith?  Collingwood last year with Ginnivan, who then when on to threaten to revenge porn the player who dobbed him in?  Or when some of their players made misogynistic Tiktoks?  Were Brisbane questioned about their culture when half their team sent explicit texts to each others' partners when they were in Vegas?  Were Port questioned about their culture when one of their players, high as a kite, thought he could fly and jumped to his dealth from a high rise balcony?  Are Essendon being questioned about their culture when Stringer was caught with gangland figures? Or GWS now while half their side is being suspended for inappropriate behaviour on end of season trip?Everything else you've cited there is based on rumour.  Do you want to know why we didn't hear from Roffey for months?  She was in hospital with COVID.  She told me that herself.  So, dear Mr Gonzo, tell me, why is Melbourne the only one being singled out?

We’re not being singled out. We were simply providing the most clickable content at the time. This on top of the fact it’s believed we’ve underperformed which is hardly an outrageous claim. People need to get over this “the media only pick on poor old Melbourne” 

35 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

So you're going to write off the culture of the entire club because one player was stupid enough to take drugs. Were these questions asked about Collingwood when 17 players were investigated in 2017?  Was Western Bulldogs questioned about their culture around Bailey Smith?  Collingwood last year with Ginnivan, who then when on to threaten to revenge porn the player who dobbed him in?  Or when some of their players made misogynistic Tiktoks?  Were Brisbane questioned about their culture when half their team sent explicit texts to each others' partners when they were in Vegas?  Were Port questioned about their culture when one of their players, high as a kite, thought he could fly and jumped to his dealth from a high rise balcony?  Are Essendon being questioned about their culture when Stringer was caught with gangland figures? Or GWS now while half their side is being suspended for inappropriate behaviour on end of season trip?Everything else you've cited there is based on rumour.  Do you want to know why we didn't hear from Roffey for months?  She was in hospital with COVID.  She told me that herself.  So, dear Mr Gonzo, tell me, why is Melbourne the only one being singled out?

I'm saying the culture is not as great as the club wants to think it is. To be honest I don't really care about those other clubs but yes, the culture of Collingwood in 2017 was a disaster too. Who was CEO there at the time?

Keep your head in the sand Katrina, the club loves supporters like you who forgive every indiscretion of the club and every poor administrator we've had, supporters who clap the team off when 10 goals down at half time. I want to see a successful MFC, that doesn't happen when you sweep massive issues under the rug and don't hold those in charge to account.

Edited October 16, 20241 yr by Dr. Gonzo

11 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Their names are Caitlin Nobes (Media Dept) and Tamara Jade Quarmby (player sponsors).  Go ahead and ask their opinion.  I'm sure they wouldn't mind.  Given you seem skeptical.

I thought that despite you having a lot more to do with the club than just being a cheer-squad member, you weren't one to stand on top of the mountain and shout it out for all to hear?

34 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

He didn't. He managed to include that, even though it is more than two years old ( in which time we had two top four finishes).

I included it because it is emblematic of the cultural issues so many want to excuse under the current leadership.

Btw we didn't finish top 4, the season doesn't end after round 22/23/24

Edited October 16, 20241 yr by Dr. Gonzo