POSTGAME: Rd 12 vs Fremantle

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

40 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Sharp? We had interest in his draft year 

I wouldn't go down this route mate. Impossible to defend our work at the trade table 

Sharp who did nothing in 4 years at the Suns? Including 0 games in 2023? Who should we have swapped for him, Trac or Viney? Maybe Lever?

It’s impossible to defend our trading because people have imaginary scenarios in their head about it. We were top 4 for 3 years and therefore had minimal draft picks to work with.

If you want to do big trades you need to give up something, in hindsight maybe we should’ve put some premiership players up for trade but that would’ve only happened if the club knew we weren’t contending this year and they obviously thought we were still in it. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

7 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

What can that message be though? Supposedly Goodwin is like a father to all the players, what just happened in the last 6 months?

Btw, is this related to Angus stepping down from his position at the club post forced retirement?

To me it can only be one of two things, the coach has lost the players or the gameplan is outdated and not working and the coach / coaches are doing nothing about it. The players know where they’re at in terms of premiership window, i’d be frustrated if I was playing at the club. We can keeping citing top 4 finishes the last 2 seasons but that’s starting to wear this. Again as an example, look at the way Collingwood took the game on in their on Friday night. 

[demon3165 2,711]

Well at least Goodwin has admitted it now things can turn around in this game pretty quickly and they will probably have a big pow wow this week to see if they can sort out whatever issues there are, let's see what happens against the pies which hopefully is a good game.

[layzie 33,752]

1 hour ago, SPC said:

I’m actually feeling okay after the loss. Have reverted back to the mode that has carried me through most of my supporter life.. ‘zero expectations as we are [censored]’ … again. 

I'll be fine the moment I get those first few "What happened to Melbourne?" comments out of the way 🙂

Edited June 2 by layzie

[Young Angus 775]

Dees are [censored], I'm embarrassed, can't the coaches and players see this is just like the players in Ted Lasso THEY HAVE THE YIPS!!!!  Only explanation, we need the psychologist from Ted Lasso (or an actual psychologist not an actor) and all players must attend sessions get your heads right or let the VFL team play the season out, they couldn't have done much worse, at least they'd show up.

Hang your heads in shame Dees you are a disgrace for squandering the talent and experience you all have, shame on you all.

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

Bucks gets it.

 

[mo64 5,853]

1 hour ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Sharp who did nothing in 4 years at the Suns? Including 0 games in 2023? Who should we have swapped for him, Trac or Viney? Maybe Lever?

It’s impossible to defend our trading because people have imaginary scenarios in their head about it. We were top 4 for 3 years and therefore had minimal draft picks to work with.

If you want to do big trades you need to give up something, in hindsight maybe we should’ve put some premiership players up for trade but that would’ve only happened if the club knew we weren’t contending this year and they obviously thought we were still in it. 

So our solution for the past 2 years has been to trade for 27yo discards from other clubs coming off 1-3 years of poor form.

And to say that Sharp did nothing at the Suns shows that you don't watch other teams. The Suns had heaps of young talent vying for spots. Sharp and Elijah Hollands were on the outer. Both players have excelled once given the opportunity.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,664]

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Bucks gets it.

 

Multiple years of finals and late starts to preseasons catching up to us?

It is almost better to have a year out of finals, have a full break over the offseason and get a 2-3 week head start on the other finalists. Plus you also get an easier draw in theory. 

Not saying I want the club to miss finals, just a thought.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

My PTSD is not ready for a Neeld-era level return to form

[ANG13 2,062]

It’s hard not to feel like there is something going on within the football club with a result like that. One thing this group has managed to do even when they have had bad days is show a response and limit the damage. Clearly not yesterday. 
 

Since our premiership it’s felt a bit like a large chunk of our players think we can just flick a switch and play fifteen minutes of good football and win. Our inconsistency in work rate is something that is really frustrating me. I can get over bad decision making, skill errors and mistakes a lot easier than work rate, for me it’s a non negotiable. Yes you are always going to have a level of fluctuation but it shouldn’t be at the level we are showing. 
 

 

[layzie 33,752]

5 minutes ago, mo64 said:

So our solution for the past 2 years has been to trade for 27yo discards from other clubs coming off 1-3 years of poor form.

And to say that Sharp did nothing at the Suns shows that you don't watch other teams. The Suns had heaps of young talent vying for spots. Sharp and Elijah Hollands were on the outer. Both players have excelled once given the opportunity.

That's right. Most people had no idea who Jack Bowes was before Geelong when he was quite an effective dasher off HB. 

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

So our solution for the past 2 years has been to trade for 27yo discards from other clubs coming off 1-3 years of poor form.

And to say that Sharp did nothing at the Suns shows that you don't watch other teams. The Suns had heaps of young talent vying for spots. Sharp and Elijah Hollands were on the outer. Both players have excelled once given the opportunity.

I watched the suns, he wasn’t playing. You still haven’t addressed my point - what are you giving up? It’s easy to say we should’ve got this guy and we should’ve got that guy - with what? What are you paying with? 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

16 hours ago, pitmaster said:

Never let the facts get in the way eh? Freo's bunnies? How so, since we'd won 2 of the previous 4, and 4 of the previous 7 going in to today's debacle.

I'd say we probably are now though.

 

[Kent 2,906]

35 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Multiple years of finals and late starts to preseasons catching up to us?

It is almost better to have a year out of finals, have a full break over the offseason and get a 2-3 week head start on the other finalists. Plus you also get an easier draw in theory. 

Not saying I want the club to miss finals, just a thought.

Now that is a distraction The players arent as good as some believe and the coaching is crappo!

[mo64 5,853]

32 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

I watched the suns, he wasn’t playing. You still haven’t addressed my point - what are you giving up? It’s easy to say we should’ve got this guy and we should’ve got that guy - with what? What are you paying with? 

I suggest you do some research to see what Sharp, Hollands and Bowes cost their new clubs. It was less than what we gave up for the likes of Grundy, Billings and Hunter. And we lost young talent in Jordon and Bedford due to lack of opportunity.

And we still haven't got a genuine 2nd ruckman on our list. If you think that our list management has been fine then you've got your head buried in the sand.

Edited June 2 by mo64

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,840]

3 hours ago, Oxdee said:

Don’t want to make an excuse for that horrible performance however it is so out of character. Is there another explanation other than being completely outplayed? 

During the pre match telecast they mentioned that it’s been raining heavily and the ground was wet and heavy. 

Since 2021 we haven’t played well mid season. It’s been a common theme for the past 3 years. Theory is that it’s got to do with a loaded training run during this period.

could a heavy, wet track and a loaded training regime explain this performance?

i know im clutching at straws but i cant just accept that the players gave up after 4 minutes. 
 

I've got two handfuls of straws @Oxdee. Would you like some?

[BW511 2,661]

Pretty interesting that Buckley has gone after our fitness, from a visual perspective.

I think quite a few of our boys look a little heavy at the moment.

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

3 minutes ago, mo64 said:

I suggest you do some research to see what Sharp, Hollands and Bowes cost their new clubs. It was less that what we gave up for the likes of Grundy, Billings and Hunter. And we lost young talent in Jordon and Bedford due to lack of opportunity.

And we still haven't got a genuine 2nd ruckman on our list. If you think that our list management has been fine then you've got your head buried in the sand.

Why are you roping Hollands and Bowes in? Hollands went to the blues with his brother and Bowes went to the most favoured of all trade destinations Geelong. Were we ever getting either? No. 

If we did get Sharp would we be any better? No. He was so good the suns delisted him. People would just be bagging him instead of Billing’s. The A-graders are not A-grade at the moment and that makes everyone look bad. Picking up other fringe players instead of the fringe players we did get wouldn’t change anything. 

2nd ruck? We had one and Max didn’t want to or couldn’t play with him. No AFL level ruck is gonna come and play at Casey so we need to make do. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Multiple years of finals and late starts to preseasons catching up to us?

It is almost better to have a year out of finals, have a full break over the offseason and get a 2-3 week head start on the other finalists. Plus you also get an easier draw in theory. 

Not saying I want the club to miss finals, just a thought.

How did the Hawks and Tigers do it then? It’s more than that.

[demon3165 2,711]

7 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Why are you roping Hollands and Bowes in? Hollands went to the blues with his brother and Bowes went to the most favoured of all trade destinations Geelong. Were we ever getting either? No. 

If we did get Sharp would we be any better? No. He was so good the suns delisted him. People would just be bagging him instead of Billing’s. The A-graders are not A-grade at the moment and that makes everyone look bad. Picking up other fringe players instead of the fringe players we did get wouldn’t change anything. 

2nd ruck? We had one and Max didn’t want to or couldn’t play with him. No AFL level ruck is gonna come and play at Casey so we need to make do. 

Whilst I would have stuck with Grundy I am also not sold on two ruckmen but I am sold on getting quick skilled players in the midfield, we won 21 with a contested football game but that started to change in 22,23 and we stayed the same a one paced midfield with a lack of ball skills and decision making sides know they can get us outside of the contest as our players rush into a contest and leave people free.

The forward line is non functioning and even some of the great full forwards would struggle to get a kick, I understand people getting frustrated with Petty and co but geez it would be frustrating position to play in with the way the ball is brought in.

I now think that Goodwin knows we had to change but the lack of pace and skills has caught up with us to play a quick style game so now we are in nowhere land so either they will go back to what they know and limit the losses and win some games against sides that are not quite there or change cop the losses and develop some players, but I expect a harder contest against the pies.

[Deemania since 56 6,609]

14 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Very good observations. 

Flag.. I'd say top 8 relevance.

The lid was lifted today and all the world could see....an empty chest..

The areas you highlight...spot on.

Add another 

Our Coaching Dept has no real clue about plans and personnel.  We have the wrong game and wrong list.

Yes ...without doubt a handful of gems.  Some about to say au revoir...some off the boil..  some just wasted.

Much of the list.....meh.

There will be those that say that's nasty,  cruel, inconsiderate.  To them... I couldn't care any less than I do.  They are supposed to be an elite professional club.  To be there you ought to be good  better than most etc. When there, a usually shortish ( relatively) time you want to be the very best...for you , the jumper,club and fans.

Today we understand that doesn't always apply.  Play like [censored].....then take the [censored].   That was [censored]

Depth, realism, spot on! We have seen it all smouldering underneath many patches of good - then reduced, same game ordinariness - across several seasons, now. The Club lacks 'killer' values and readiness. If no-one is listening, it's longer-term failure on the shelf.

 

[ElDiablo14 4,991]

2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

To me it can only be one of two things, the coach has lost the players or the gameplan is outdated and not working and the coach / coaches are doing nothing about it. The players know where they’re at in terms of premiership window, i’d be frustrated if I was playing at the club. We can keeping citing top 4 finishes the last 2 seasons but that’s starting to wear this. Again as an example, look at the way Collingwood took the game on in their on Friday night. 

But that's the worrying part here. If the players did not care yesterday and just dished out that sort of "effort", it reflects very bad on the leadership both on the field and the coaching staff.

If that were the case, definitely Goodwin can't continue. Sometimes relationships are beyond repair.

[ElDiablo14 4,991]

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

How did the Hawks and Tigers do it then? It’s more than that.

We should've been them in 2022 and 2023.

2022 I believe was mismanaged, peaked too early and didn't know how to best prepare for a shortened preseason, which in return resulted in half our team injured by September.

2023 It was a combination of bad luck and lack of Fwd depth. I am almost certain that had Melksham, Kozzy and JVR not missed any of the finals, we were a good chance to win the premiership.

This year just feels like 2020 all over again.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,664]

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

How did the Hawks and Tigers do it then? It’s more than that.

Not saying it is the sole reason, just pointing to a potential reason for the lack of run in the players.

I also think we have too many of the same type of players. Sparrow is a great team guy but he is really lacking any point of difference to blokes like viney and oliver.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Multiple years of finals and late starts to preseasons catching up to us?

It is almost better to have a year out of finals, have a full break over the offseason and get a 2-3 week head start on the other finalists. Plus you also get an easier draw in theory. 

Not saying I want the club to miss finals, just a thought.

I have to respectfully disagree with this, multiple years of consistent finals didn't impact the fitness levels of Richmond or Hawthorn when they had dynasty eras, even Port Adelaide, Brisbane and Geelong have consistently contended without any major concerns around their fitness that i've seen. 

It's really difficult to give an informed opinion without knowing the layout of our pre-season and the numbers of the players throughout it, but it's certainly something that really needs to be reviewed by the club if there has been some drop off in this space. 

I've said this a few times however, and it's that we average between 9-13 players 24 years and younger every single game this year and a lot of thoes guys are 18-21. It does take time to build fitness to a level to handle the rigors of an AFL season, and potentially a few of the young guys might get some level of a pass, but i would be interested to see the fitness levels of some of the senior players compared to previous years.

Edited June 3 by Ted Lasso