POSTGAME: Rd 10 vs West Coast

[Flower Magic 776]

Sister Sarah going a little better than brother Jack ATM. In line for Olympic selection in the 1500m. https://www.facebook.com/WorldAthletics/videos/414981944717196

[The heart beats true 18,123]

Lever out for a month. Having knee surgery.

[Jaded No More 68,913]

Just now, The heart beats true said:

Lever out for a month. Having knee surgery.

Is his knee concussed? wtf happened?

Great time for Hore and Disco to also be injured because #ofcourse

[The heart beats true 18,123]

4 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Is his knee concussed? wtf happened?

Great time for Hore and Disco to also be injured because #ofcourse

Apparently he was having knee issues and the club decided with the missed week and the bye to have the surgery now.

Will miss Freo and Kings Birthday.

Edited May 20 by The heart beats true

[whatwhat say what 22,747]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Is his knee concussed? wtf happened?

Great time for Hore and Disco to also be injured because #ofcourse

wrenched it just before the head knock

that is quite the blow

[BDA 22,751]

7 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Lever out for a month. Having knee surgery.

God dammit

[Jaded No More 68,913]

9 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Apparently he was having knee issues and the club decided with the missed week and the bye to have the surgery now.

Will miss Freo and Kings Birthday.

Great. The one [censored] game I wanted to win this year. 
 

[Redleg 40,905]

21 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Lever out for a month. Having knee surgery.

Wonderful!

Suppose Petty goes back, JVR comes in,  BBB out and we try Fullarton or Verrall forward and  ruck chop out.

Edited May 20 by Redleg

[ElDiablo14 4,998]

We can thank our slow start for Lever's injury. In his desperation to stop a certain goal.

Our defensive line is under the pump week in and week out, poor blokes they feel they need to stop any goal for us to have a chance to win.

Constant supply inside our 50 will do that. 

🥲

[John Demonic 5,795]

3 hours ago, gregdemon said:

SAD THING IS I knew it was over 10 MINUTES IN you could see we were flat. Said to mrs its over she said "do not be so silly"

It was a horrible performance, but there's no need to end a marriage over it greg

[binman 42,919]

47 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

I'd prefer to agree that form fluctuates for a multitude of reasons.  Load management still unquantifiable impact imo

Agree that form fluctuates for a multitude of reasons. 

Of course it does.

And one of those multitude of reasons is the program the high performance team puts in place. It's why clubs spend a fortune on them.

And fatigue is another of those multitude of reasons form fluctuates 

And agreee its extremely difficult to quantify it or determine how much a factor it is. Impossible for fans actually.

But you don't need to be a sports scientist to realise when a team is fatigued. You can see it.

Look at the performance by the Cats against the suns.

Whatever the reason - the heat, the humidity, their high performance program, load management- blind Freddy could see they were spent 10 minutes into that game. 

Edited May 20 by binman

[ElDiablo14 4,998]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Agree that form fluctuates for a multitude of reasons. 

Of course it does. And one of those multitude of reasons is the program the high performance team puts in place. It's why clubs spend a fortune on them.

And fatigue is another of those multitude of reasons form fluctuates 

And agreee its extremely difficult to quantify it or determine how much a factor it is. Impossible for fans actually.

But you don't need to be a sports scientist to realise when a team is fatigued. You can see it.

Look at the performance by the Cats against the suns.

Whatever the reason - the heat, the humidity, their high performance program, load management- blind Freddy could see they were spent 10 minutes into that game. 

Can they stop loading their players and try to win a match of footy?

Not very useful to have peak condition in September if you finish 7th.

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

7 hours ago, SFebes said:

Was at the game, it was truly pathetic and embarrassing. One of the more frustrating efforts I've seen. I still can't believe I am saying we need a key forward 3 yrs in a row. Its either salary cap issues or poor list management/coaches belief. No words really but we are a meat and potatoes team with very limited skill across the board and a constant makeshift forward line that is one so frustrating to watch every single week.

Why didn't Petty go back when Lever was out? Brown is useless, once he doesn't mark it we are one down, McAdam was poor and didn't chase. Billings, Viney, Oliver, Sparrow.....

 

can people stop this key forward narrative like every year we have had the chance to pick a Cameron, Curnow on the market. They are like hens teeth and people are up in arms we can't get one. 

[Jaded No More 68,913]

6 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

can people stop this key forward narrative like every year we have had the chance to pick a Cameron, Curnow on the market. They are like hens teeth and people are up in arms we can't get one. 

This!

You think Collingwood hasn’t thrown everything at trying to get a key forward as well? 

Coleman medalists don’t grow on trees. To suggest we have failed to get one is to suggest there are dozens of quality key forwards just waiting to come to Melbourne. 
Look at the ludicrous contracts offered to absolute potatoes like Lobb because he’s over 6 foot 5 for crying out loud.

[beelzebub 23,364]

31 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree that form fluctuates for a multitude of reasons. 

Of course it does.

And one of those multitude of reasons is the program the high performance team puts in place. It's why clubs spend a fortune on them.

And fatigue is another of those multitude of reasons form fluctuates 

And agreee its extremely difficult to quantify it or determine how much a factor it is. Impossible for fans actually.

But you don't need to be a sports scientist to realise when a team is fatigued. You can see it.

Look at the performance by the Cats against the suns.

Whatever the reason - the heat, the humidity, their high performance program, load management- blind Freddy could see they were spent 10 minutes into that game. 

Mate...mate...tell me you're not alluding to Loading ....

[Spargonicus 539]

34 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Can they stop loading their players and try to win a match of footy?

Not very useful to have peak condition in September if you finish 7th.

This. Momentum counts for a lot after all. See Pies last two seasons. 

[beelzebub 23,364]

2 hours ago, D Rev said:

I really appreciate your considered and detailed response,  I think we can shut the lid on discuss around the closeness of the competition, given our furious agreement there.

I agree that there are issues with the team, including depth.

However if you look at the top 8 teams in the VFL - 5 of those teams are stand-alone clubs.  Of the AFL affiliated teams, only Geelong is a chance.  The VFL is essentially treated as an extra training session by most AFL sides, and Geelong has been probably the most successful side (overall) in the last 50 years.

So, most other (good) AFL teams dont seem to have a wealth of talent at the ready either.

For us, we've been a victim of our success in that we've had players like Bedford and Jordan in the twos, they simply wont stay if there are better opportunities out there.  Should we have tried to keep them at the expense of others?  Maybe - hindsight is always 20/20.

It's also worth remembering that we lost Brayshaw before the start of the season for absolutely no compensation (to date).  He was in our top 10 players and versatile in ways that can be hard to define.  Clarrie had no pre-season, so is still playing catch up - so we are down 2 of our top midfielders.

Langers, who has been really good this season, was also out Sunday - so thats 3 of our top midfielders out.  No team can replace that sort of talent easily.  Lever was also out early, which also hurt.

Again, the issue when our top players fail (e.g. May), it really exposes the next tier down.

I agree that Sparrow has been disappointing and that BBB and McAdam didn't seem up to it.  We can't really send Sparrow back to Casey as there is noone down there who can play his role.  Laurie doesn't seem up to it while K Brown and Thurstropp need another year or two.  Same with Jefferson.

I disagree about Chandler though, his pressure acts have been incredible. 

The way we play isn't to kick 100 points, its to hold the other team to about 10 goals, then kick more than that.  This is a strategy that holds up in finals and relies more on fitness (which can be developed quickly) than skills (which cannot).

I'm not too worried about our forward line...when we are fit. We had Turner and JVR out, as well as Melksham.  All 3 are smart footballers who can provide a target and run. With our style of play, we need the talls to compete and the rest of the team to lock the ball in and move it forward. 

Fritta has kicked 25 goals this season, while Kozzy, JVR, Trac and Chin all average about a goal per game.  Then there's the others that chip in (Gawn, ANB, Windsor etc).  That's enough to get above the opposition if the defence works.

All in all, with: the closeness in the competition, the draft, the salary cap, travel and injuries - it is very difficult to be competitive every week throughout the whole season for multiple seasons. 

I think we are looking OK in the context of the league and have the opportunity to get better if we can stay fit.

I really want to accept that as cause rationale...   but for mine it fails a very basic test... Reality.   By this im suggesting we a [censored] poor at starting games...   We still dont have a purposeful functional forward setup.  We rely far too heavily on defence.  We seem incapable of change within games once found out and wanting.

Given our reliance on defence ...  we're now [censored]

[picket fence 17,151]

5 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

ANB was BOG a couple of rounds ago and is never our worst

I agree about Rivers and Sparrow - pop them in the middle and see what happens? Can Trac and Oliver become very dangerous forwards? Both have very high footy IQ and can run good lines

Salem will take a few weeks to find his poise again, as he looks completely underdone

Don't start me on Petty

I dont mind this train of thought!!🥰

[beelzebub 23,364]

15 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

This!

You think Collingwood hasn’t thrown everything at trying to get a key forward as well? 

Coleman medalists don’t grow on trees. To suggest we have failed to get one is to suggest there are dozens of quality key forwards just waiting to come to Melbourne. 
Look at the ludicrous contracts offered to absolute potatoes like Lobb because he’s over 6 foot 5 for crying out loud.

You dont actually need a coleman up front.... You need a system.  You need cohesion,  you need method and intelligence.  We just arent clever forward of the big bounce. Our coaching in that dept is laughable.  Funny we understand defence but cant for love nor money understand nor implement its opposite. .

How fn dumb can we be.... seriously.

 

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You dont actually need a coleman up front.... You need a system.  You need cohesion,  you need method and intelligence.  We just arent clever forward of the big bounce. Our coaching in that dept is laughable.  Funny we understand defence but cant for love nor money understand nor implement its opposite. .

How fn dumb can we be.... seriously.

 

Correct. And Petty looks great last year and even the first few weeks this year, now is sick of the ball sat on or over his head so stops leading. Lost all confidence. Exact same thing happen to T Mc.

I’d swap Stafford and McQualter at the bye.

McQualter is cooking our midfield putting them in useless defensive positions and taking away from their strengths.

And Stafford seems to have no idea what to do with this forward line, he never has.

[beelzebub 23,364]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Correct. And Petty looks great last year and even the first few weeks this year, now is sick of the ball sat on or over his head so stops leading. Lost all confidence. Exact same thing happen to T Mc.

I’d swap Stafford and McQualter at the bye.

McQualter is cooking our midfield putting them in useless defensive positions and taking away from their strengths.

And Stafford seems to have no idea what to do with this forward line, he never has.

Id be rid of them both.... or send'em down casey.    Bloody hell cant we get coaches who are competent 

Edited May 20 by beelzebub

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

11 hours ago, Biffen said:

It looks like skill errors but it's actually tackling and defensive pressure.

When we don't show up to tackle we get done.

The first quarter sets the tone.

Yes and that all comes down to mentality. Players turned up expecting a fresh kill, arrogant and mentally soft. Been that way for decades.

They talk about "respecting the opposition" and all that crapola but they still don't walk the walk, they still don't respect the game or respect the opposition. They think they can get away with bruise free footy when they can't be arsed, they need to be ruthless and put these bottom of the ladder teams to the sword before they get a sniff otherwise their momentum and belief grows, especially interstate. How many times must it happen before the leaders, coaches, senior players etc do something about it??

Edited May 20 by Dr. Gonzo

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

9 hours ago, DemonWA said:

Billings isn't as bad as Demonland would have you think. Sure his set shot kicking has been a real issue, but he's not the worst imo

He's been extremely vanilla, no impact whatsoever. Took too long after taking a mark on 50 yesterday when his opponent went to ground, could've played on quickly and passed to Fritsch(?) in the pocket. Instead went back then kicked a nothing kick to the top of the square which was easily defended.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's been extremely vanilla, no impact whatsoever. Took too long after taking a mark on 50 yesterday when his opponent went to ground, could've played on quickly and passed to Fritsch(?) in the pocket. Instead went back then kicked a nothing kick to the top of the square which was easily defended.

Brown. And it was appalling. 

No idea why he wasn’t playing 80% wing with Langdon out, because it’s now clear as day he can’t get a kick in our forward line. Adds little to nothing defensively and is afraid of kicking goals.

He was worth preserving with for a while as a forward/wing but with McAdam in forward we can try others through the flanks and some wing minutes 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

4 hours ago, No. 31 said:

So now I finally get to see what MFCSS is all about. Drop this talk of closing windows and asterix premierships in 2021. It is May, a big cluster of teams vying for the top 4 & 8 and a lot of footy yet to be played. 

Was the West Coast game a poor showing? Certainly it was, the Dees can and should play better (mind you, WC Eagles at home are no longer the goal kicking practice they were last season and they will notch up some wins this season) but that doesn't mean the Dees are sinking into a mediocrity hole (just yet). 

This season feels like it will be a very even one amongst the top 10 or 11 teams. Those that hit form at the pointy end of the season can win a flag.

As for heading beyond 2024, trying to recruit a KPF and a pacey midfielder would be my priorities (easier said than done mind you).

 

I'll believe it when I see it. We've had 4 poor games now and not much to bring into the side.