14 hours ago, FabDemon said:

The fact is JVR has not proven himself as an AFL key forward . Statistically his performances are no where near those of key forwards in more successful teams. Indeed at times this year he seems to have gone backwards in his development. His performances are very inconsistent. The most that can be said in his favour is that key forwards take time to develop. Of course this does not mean that he will develop into a key forward - he only might. Another very long contract and for an unproven player. This doesn’t excite me as much as some apparently. Especially as we can see the problems developing of putting players on very long term contracts only to see them lose interest or suffer form slumps.

You have my vote.

If I was JVR I would be asking my manager to find me a spot elsewhere. This rucking is killing his development. In his second last game he spent barely 50% of the game as a forward. He spent 30% on the bench. What's that about?

Van Rooyen is absolutely the least of our current problems. Sure it would be great if he was a 50 goal forward in his third year as an AFL player, notwithstanding our pathetic delivery inside 50, but how many players are?

He, like all young players, is not going to experience truly linear development and will benefit most from consistency of role, messaging and environment. I don't think he has had any of those three this year with the consistent back and forth between Melbourne and Casey, and the ever changing forward line personnel. That is on the coaches and the selectors.

On 07/07/2025 at 21:46, bing181 said:

How many teams in the 8 have an ex-forward as forward coach?

How many teams in the top 8 have absolutely no structure to their forward line and a young key forward requiring coaching on positioning, blocking and leading patterns?

14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How many teams in the top 8 have absolutely no structure to their forward line and a young key forward requiring coaching on positioning, blocking and leading patterns?

arguably a defender is best placed to teach a forward how and where to lead - they know how to put the oppo defender in an 'uncomfortable' position

On 08/07/2025 at 10:45, old dee said:

If I was JVR I would be asking my manager to find me a spot elsewhere. This rucking is killing his development. In his second last game he spent barely 50% of the game as a forward. He spent 30% on the bench. What's that about?

getting him up and around the ball actually gets him involved in the play; his ruckwork is actually pretty good especially given how little he does it

against the crom:

gawn: 84% tog | 25 hit outs | 3 centre clearances | 37.9% hitout win ratio | 1 stoppage clearance | 12% hitout to advantage | 66 ruck contests | 4 clearances

jvr: 74% | 3 | 0 | 25% | 0 | 33.3% | 12 | 0

note how, given minimal ruck contests, how successful his hitout to advantage percentage

3 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

arguably a defender is best placed to teach a forward how and where to lead - they know how to put the oppo defender in an 'uncomfortable' position

getting him up and around the ball actually gets him involved in the play; his ruckwork is actually pretty good especially given how little he does it

against the crom:

gawn: 84% tog | 25 hit outs | 3 centre clearances | 37.9% hitout win ratio | 1 stoppage clearance | 12% hitout to advantage | 66 ruck contests | 4 clearances

jvr: 74% | 3 | 0 | 25% | 0 | 33.3% | 12 | 0

note how, given minimal ruck contests, how successful his hitout to advantage percentage

Then why is he being droped every other week.

Think we need him.

On 07/07/2025 at 15:38, inanunda said:

I'm sorry but you don't get a plumber to fix a faulty powerpoint.

Sorry but this is nonsense

Scott Selwood is Collingwood’s forward coach and he was a tagger. James Rahilly is the Cat’s forward coach and he could be best described as a journeyman defender. Both those clubs seem to be kicking a few.

You don’t need to have been a forward to coach a forward group. I would say brilliant communication skills, a deep understanding of the game and a synergy between all the coaching staff is far more important particularly in the modern game

Famously Chris Fagan has never played the game at the highest level so you’d never want him as a coach.

7 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

against the crom:

gawn: 84% tog | 25 hit outs | 3 centre clearances | 37.9% hitout win ratio | 1 stoppage clearance | 12% hitout to advantage | 66 ruck contests | 4 clearances

jvr: 74% | 3 | 0 | 25% | 0 | 33.3% | 12 | 0

note how, given minimal ruck contests, how successful his hitout to advantage percentage

I think you'd need a much larger data set to be able to say that WW. Three hit outs and one happens to go to advantage and you're claiming he is a success here. He doesn't get that many hit outs in general and averages about 1.2 to advantage per match. Having said that, most ruckmen (Max one of the exceptions) don't add much value in general just with their pure ruck work. Around the ground and clearance efforts, that's a diff matter.

Edited July 9Jul 9 by Demon Dynasty

7 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

arguably a defender is best placed to teach a forward how and where to lead - they know how to put the oppo defender in an 'uncomfortable' position

getting him up and around the ball actually gets him involved in the play; his ruckwork is actually pretty good especially given how little he does it

against the crom:

gawn: 84% tog | 25 hit outs | 3 centre clearances | 37.9% hitout win ratio | 1 stoppage clearance | 12% hitout to advantage | 66 ruck contests | 4 clearances

jvr: 74% | 3 | 0 | 25% | 0 | 33.3% | 12 | 0

note how, given minimal ruck contests, how successful his hitout to advantage percentage

He won 3 hit outs and 1 went to advantage? 33.33%? I actually agree though his ruckwork is decent but that's beside the point. He doesn't get I volved around the ground and, most importantly, he needs time to develop up forward. He needs to play forward and stay there.

If a defender is best placed then Chaplin is not it because our forward line absolutely sucks.

Edited July 9Jul 9 by Dr. Gonzo

On 18/04/2024 at 14:42, layzie said:

Hell of a re-signing.

He's looked a bit gassed lately but I think the guy is tracking nicely.

A massive blunder in my book! Viney, Clarry and now Van Rooyen. Massive overeaction I.M.O !

7 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

arguably a defender is best placed to teach a forward how and where to lead - they know how to put the oppo defender in an 'uncomfortable' position

getting him up and around the ball actually gets him involved in the play; his ruckwork is actually pretty good especially given how little he does it

against the crom:

gawn: 84% tog | 25 hit outs | 3 centre clearances | 37.9% hitout win ratio | 1 stoppage clearance | 12% hitout to advantage | 66 ruck contests | 4 clearances

jvr: 74% | 3 | 0 | 25% | 0 | 33.3% | 12 | 0

note how, given minimal ruck contests, how successful his hitout to advantage percentage

Using the JVR ruck stat, is akin to using Spargo’s effective kicks into the forward line. I could not care less about the percentage stats, the fact is, if you can only do it minimal times in a game that has hundreds of disposals and thousands of stats, it means little.

jVR matches up on the oppositions second ruck option too. I’d like to see Max’s stats if he had the luxury of playing on lesser rucks/players.

2 hours ago, FarNorthernD said:

Sorry but this is nonsense

Also shows real ignorance as to what an assistant coach's role is, or even what the requirements are.

In any case, you can go through the AFL and there's a big fat zero correlation between having an ex-forward as forwards coach and having an effectively functioning forward line. In fact, if you look through it, there are a LOT of ex-defenders coaching forwards - which of course makes perfect sense. Not only do defenders spend their whole careers working out what forwards are doing, they get to come up against different forwards and different forward systems every week.

On 07/07/2025 at 15:06, jnrmac said:

I feel for JvR

No fwd coach who has ever played fwd in the 4 years he has been at Melbourne

No one to mentor him on forward craft

Spends 30% of his on ground time in the ruck.

He been in and out of the team this year and can't get any continuity.

A masterclass on how to stuff a young gun's career.

Well done MFC

I think you are correct in using him in the middle has negated his progress as a forward.

He's been struggling on the latter and using him as a ruck has only added to the struggle.

The clubs negligence in recruiting another ruck has been woeful and we are seeing it's results.

It's interesting because at one stage after losing Jackson we got Grundy and had two ruck players including the best.

And then just one. Why we didn't find a replacement for Grundy was very strange

And here we are all these years later. Imagine if Max went down this year and he's getting on a bit.

It's just down to Maxs great fitness he's not injured all the time.

Club just puts it's head in the sand so often.

Edited July 10Jul 10 by Previously known as LITD.

14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He won 3 hit outs and 1 went to advantage? 33.33%? I actually agree though his ruckwork is decent but that's beside the point. He doesn't get I volved around the ground and, most importantly, he needs time to develop up forward. He needs to play forward and stay there.

If a defender is best placed then Chaplin is not it because our forward line absolutely sucks.

Yep we have played Petty fwd and Jvr in the middle way too long.

He wasn't great against Port but kicked a couple of goals (including a great set shot, which set him apart from everyone else) so I can't understand why he was dropped instead of trying to give him some continuity after an encouraging performance.

i know its an obvious thing to say, but i was listening to the radio today and Jason McCartney (GWS Giants' List Manager) was talking about Aaron Cadman and saying how much of a luxury it was for his development to be playing alongside Jesse Hogan ( a mature forward etc). Mentioned how they didnt need to rush him etc and he could develop at his own pace. A real stark juxtaposition.

2 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Jason McCartney (GWS Giants' List Manager) was talking about Aaron Cadman and saying how much of a luxury it was for his development to be playing alongside Jesse Hogan ( a mature forward etc). Mentioned how they didnt need to rush him etc and he could develop at his own pace. A real stark juxtaposition.

That was supposed to be Ben Brown. Who in spite of everything, wasn't all that old when he had to hang up the boots.

Against that, JVR and our other key forwards get to train against May, Turner, Lever etc., and you would think that there are plenty of "learnings" to be had there.

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

That was supposed to be Ben Brown. Who in spite of everything, wasn't all that old when he had to hang up the boots.

Against that, JVR and our other key forwards get to train against May, Turner, Lever etc., and you would think that there are plenty of "learnings" to be had there.

Absolutely ideal world would have had JVR being under the wing of Brown, but his body was shot when we got him. We managed to squeeze enough out of him to get a premiership but I also wonder if we did not manage him properly. I think of a stretch where we had something crazy like 3 games in 15 days and he played all of them, big shock his knee was cactus after that.

I absolutely agree with what is being said that we are not developing him in the best way possible, not only is he having to player the key forward role, but he's also got to be second ruck to Max. At this stage of his career his is neither of those things, and it's killing him.

I still have hope, but he is not a big hulking key forward and he never will be.