On 05/01/2024 at 14:53, Kent said:

The game plan focussed on defensive forwards is the problem

We can't hold the ball inside 50 ti get a decent shot

Goodwin won't change we will have to sack him I guess to get the required changes

Unfortunately the plan has run its race in my view

I really can’t understand these incredibly negative opinions. We only needed to score one more goal a game last season & we go to one of the top forward lines. A few tweaks to our forward delivery & more importantly keeping our forwards on the ground will make a massive difference to our team. Get consistency on the scoreboard & that will impact our whole team dynamic. Name one team we haven’t matched it with & have lost for any other reason than because of our  “much publicised forward deficiencies”.

52 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

I really can’t understand these incredibly negative opinions. We only needed to score one more goal a game last season & we go to one of the top forward lines. A few tweaks to our forward delivery & more importantly keeping our forwards on the ground will make a massive difference to our team. Get consistency on the scoreboard & that will impact our whole team dynamic. Name one team we haven’t matched it with & have lost for any other reason than because of our  “much publicised forward deficiencies”.

The main problem was we had this same issue in 2022, and again in 2023

Massive F50 entries with very low conversion rates 

The issue was not resolved during 2023 pre season 

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The main problem was we had this same issue in 2022, and again in 2023

Massive F50 entries with very low conversion rates 

The issue was not resolved during 2023 pre season 

I have really high hopes for Jvr.

Our forward line was on a state of constant flux and there was no real time to have everything gel in terms of game plan.

It would be wonderful for some consistent key positions covered consistently if that makes sense.

Jvr came on in leaps ( literally)and bounds last year and if that trajectory continues into this season he will be a star. Would like to see him settled at chf all year creating a strong leading marking option.

Petty played little time up forward but proved that he was a star in his last two games before injury. He his a very hard matchup at full forward.

Fritta was plagued by injuries as well. He is a natural fwd pocket player.

If these three are firing and the three crumbers in Kozzie, Chandler and Anb can get back to their best then one could expect to see probably one of the best forward lines around. Spargo can play the odd cameo there as well.

Also without mentioning names if all goes well maybe Trac can spend more time in our forward line in the other pocket.  Although he does need to fix his set shots on goal.

Joel Smith would be a good forward sub.

I think injury wise we are due for some good luck this year.

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Well he'll need to be stellar in the contests if leading up isn't his go.  There's not that many successful KPF's that aren't good on the lead

Plugger Lockett springs to mind 'Macca'...

Strong in the contest but also a great lead up forward who knew how to make space.

The game has changed of course but these skills never grow old.

34 minutes ago, rjay said:

Plugger Lockett springs to mind 'Macca'...

Strong in the contest but also a great lead up forward who knew how to make space.

The game has changed of course but these skills never grow old.

All the best KF's were/are strong on the lead but as you said, the game has changed and it's much harder for forwards to lead into space (but not impossible) 

Quick ball movement further afield and quick f50 entries is the key

And that's what the Pies do.  They catch out teams on the counter so it often looks like they've got an open forward line with their f50 entries

They are quick and it's nearly every time.  Thus, their forwards have got space to lead into

What we do has been much discussed and we have to change

We do a lot right though with a tremendous zone defence and we have real talent in our backline.  The midfield is fine as well with plenty of talent

It's just our ball movement which is not corridor-centric which leads to slow inside f50 entries

So we need to be quick from HB, stoppages or centre-breaks and we should back ourselves to use the corridor ... turn it over and we've got the stellar defence as back-up

 

Footnote:  Pound for pound we've got a better list of players than Collingwood but their system takes them a long way.  They play high-risk football knowing that mistakes & clangers are going to happen, no matter which way they play

And the best way for us to pay them back for the act of thuggery is to beat them on the scoreboard (although we could send out a goon as well - Ice Hockey style!!) 

Edited January 6, 20241 yr by Macca

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The main problem was we had this same issue in 2022, and again in 2023

Massive F50 entries with very low conversion rates 

The issue was not resolved during 2023 pre season 

Which I think was my point & in both seasons we had massive disruptions to personnel in our forward line. Looks like we have addressed the personnel situation..just need them to fire 

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I have really high hopes for Jvr.

Our forward line was on a state of constant flux and there was no real time to have everything gel in terms of game plan.

It would be wonderful for some consistent key positions covered consistently if that makes sense.

Jvr came on in leaps ( literally)and bounds last year and if that trajectory continues into this season he will be a star. Would like to see him settled at chf all year creating a strong leading marking option.

Petty played little time up forward but proved that he was a star in his last two games before injury. He his a very hard matchup at full forward.

Fritta was plagued by injuries as well. He is a natural fwd pocket player.

If these three are firing and the three crumbers in Kozzie, Chandler and Anb can get back to their best then one could expect to see probably one of the best forward lines around. Spargo can play the odd cameo there as well.

Also without mentioning names if all goes well maybe Trac can spend more time in our forward line in the other pocket.  Although he does need to fix his set shots on goal.

Joel Smith would be a good forward sub.

I think injury wise we are due for some good luck this year.

So where do McAdam Billing’s and others like AMW Kolt and Caleb Windsor fit into your 2024 plans. 

McAdam and/or Billing’s wil help our forward line and even Fullarton will get an opportunity. 

Not all of our 2023 forwards will be there during  the season if our recruits live up to expectations. I believe McAdam will be a lock plus Billing's a chance also. And don’t rule out Kolt and Duke (Windsor getting opportunities to debut. Also AMW appeals as does Howes and of course Taj. 

KP wise we may even get some good service from BBB and Fullarton is a chance of playing in the AFL also. 

Plenty of chances to assist our forward line and a game plan plus greater connectivity will make a great difference. 

Also JVR cannot wait to see him further develop his skills and ability plus team play and X factor. 

2024 should be a great response to our 2022-23 disappointments 
 

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The main problem was we had this same issue in 2022, and again in 2023

Massive F50 entries with very low conversion rates 

The issue was not resolved during 2023 pre season 

Exactly Sir!!!

7 hours ago, 58er said:

So where do McAdam Billing’s and others like AMW Kolt and Caleb Windsor fit into your 2024 plans. 

McAdam and/or Billing’s wil help our forward line and even Fullarton will get an opportunity. 

Not all of our 2023 forwards will be there during  the season if our recruits live up to expectations. I believe McAdam will be a lock plus Billing's a chance also. And don’t rule out Kolt and Duke (Windsor getting opportunities to debut. Also AMW appeals as does Howes and of course Taj. 

KP wise we may even get some good service from BBB and Fullarton is a chance of playing in the AFL also. 

Plenty of chances to assist our forward line and a game plan plus greater connectivity will make a great difference. 

Also JVR cannot wait to see him further develop his skills and ability plus team play and X factor. 

2024 should be a great response to our 2022-23 disappointments 
 

Could be as many as five players forward that didn't play in the last final. McAdam, Billings, Petty, JVR, BBB if fit, also Fritta who was barely fit enough to get on the ground for the last few weeks. Should be enough options to tweak the forward line somewhat.

2024 ... certain premiers!

What could possibly go wrong?

I've proposed a total list concept for many years and I have also suggested a new term Churn for rotating players . i am now proposing Churn as a total team concept.

We use as many players as possible all year, resting and rotating players mids forward and defence groups for packages of games dependent on opposition match up and player loading, fitness etc. This keeps the total squad at match readiness and cover for unexpected issues Injuries, suspension, etc.

each group playing in the match then rotates through the geographic position (zone) replacing a player who moves out of their initial zone. All players will know the requirement of each position and will know the abilities and requirements  of the person who they have replaced and will therefor provide a consistent system in what appears a chaotic movement. 

It is in fact the Chaos theory in practice.

obviously ensuring incorrect match ups dont happen requires constant movement. Chaos theory would indicate repetitions occur in  5.3 sequences so coaching statisticians can predict and counter anomalies. A strange attractor would also be identified and utilised as required.

im watching the tennis and it seems the pattern is emerging for Germany again. Ill be interested to see how Poland can counter it. At 6/1 down they should miss out by 1

 

6 hours ago, dpositive said:

I've proposed a total list concept for many years and I have also suggested a new term Churn for rotating players . i am now proposing Churn as a total team concept.

We use as many players as possible all year, resting and rotating players mids forward and defence groups for packages of games dependent on opposition match up and player loading, fitness etc. This keeps the total squad at match readiness and cover for unexpected issues Injuries, suspension, etc.

each group playing in the match then rotates through the geographic position (zone) replacing a player who moves out of their initial zone. All players will know the requirement of each position and will know the abilities and requirements  of the person who they have replaced and will therefor provide a consistent system in what appears a chaotic movement. 

It is in fact the Chaos theory in practice.

obviously ensuring incorrect match ups dont happen requires constant movement. Chaos theory would indicate repetitions occur in  5.3 sequences so coaching statisticians can predict and counter anomalies. A strange attractor would also be identified and utilised as required.

im watching the tennis and it seems the pattern is emerging for Germany again. Ill be interested to see how Poland can counter it. At 6/1 down they should miss out by 1

 

never work

Goodwin doesn't have the  creativity wont play other than his favorites' 

Could cost a flag opportunity  Geelong are good at it I think

 

On 02/01/2024 at 20:59, Bring-Back-Powell said:

6th - 8th with an elimination final win is my tip.

I have Collingwood, Carlton Brisbane, GWS, Sydney and Adelaide ahead of us this year.

My thoughts exactly. Too much talent to miss finals but not convinced that top 4 is a shoe-in.

Won't go down well with the flogger wavers on this site but the opinion was asked for.

14 minutes ago, layzie said:

Won't go down well with the flogger wavers on this site but the opinion was asked for.

That's the major contrast between Demonland and the MFC forum on Bigfooty.

The average Demonland poster is way more optimistic than the average BF poster.

Whilst many Demonlanders are convinced we're still in the premiership window, many on bigfooty reckon we're going to go back to the pack and are quite frankly brutal and scathing on Goodwin.

10 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Whilst many Demonlanders are convinced we're still in the premiership window, many on bigfooty reckon we're going to go back to the pack and are quite frankly brutal and scathing on Goodwin.

There's a fair bit of crossover. I actually thought the preseason thread on BF was approaching DLand levels of negativity.

We are making the GF this year so the Eeyores should be happy with that.

48 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

That's the major contrast between Demonland and the MFC forum on Bigfooty.

The average Demonland poster is way more optimistic than the average BF poster.

Whilst many Demonlanders are convinced we're still in the premiership window, many on bigfooty reckon we're going to go back to the pack and are quite frankly brutal and scathing on Goodwin.

It's natural to feel a bit of entitlement after three straight top 4 finishes and expect it to just happen again but they miss the fact that teams around us are getting better. 

Our window for the next 2-3 years is still healthy and if a lot goes right we'll be right up there again but with the uncertainty around Clarry, an unknown quantity backing Max up and questions up forward it's not lining up for us the same way it did the last two seasons.

1 hour ago, layzie said:

My thoughts exactly. Too much talent to miss finals but not convinced that top 4 is a shoe-in.

Won't go down well with the flogger wavers on this site but the opinion was asked for.

Lay off the flogger mate.

10 hours ago, dpositive said:

I've proposed a total list concept for many years and I have also suggested a new term Churn for rotating players . i am now proposing Churn as a total team concept.

We use as many players as possible all year, resting and rotating players mids forward and defence groups for packages of games dependent on opposition match up and player loading, fitness etc. This keeps the total squad at match readiness and cover for unexpected issues Injuries, suspension, etc.

each group playing in the match then rotates through the geographic position (zone) replacing a player who moves out of their initial zone. All players will know the requirement of each position and will know the abilities and requirements  of the person who they have replaced and will therefor provide a consistent system in what appears a chaotic movement. 

It is in fact the Chaos theory in practice.

obviously ensuring incorrect match ups dont happen requires constant movement. Chaos theory would indicate repetitions occur in  5.3 sequences so coaching statisticians can predict and counter anomalies. A strange attractor would also be identified and utilised as required.

im watching the tennis and it seems the pattern is emerging for Germany again. Ill be interested to see how Poland can counter it. At 6/1 down they should miss out by 1

 

Sorry but you don’t need to artificially create chaos to have it. 

Players and Coaches are  flat out getting successful results from team plans that are often needed to cope with chaos from the opposition. 

Have you ever played any team sport?  If you haven’t most teams  systems work to a relatively straight forward and simple but uncomplicated plan.

Players vary greatly in abilities and response  to learning so I am content to leave your suggestions to an American coach and team that seem to thrive on total chaos and near confusion. 

5 hours ago, Kent said:

never work

Goodwin doesn't have the  creativity wont play other than his favorites' 

Could cost a flag opportunity  Geelong are good at it I think

 

I think Goodwin was very creative in cobbling together multiple forward lines last season.

In the end the well dried up.

9 minutes ago, rjay said:

I think Goodwin was very creative in cobbling together multiple forward lines last season.

In the end the well dried up.

Yes Brilliant to play and injured out of form TMac Showed great creativity  

6 minutes ago, 58er said:

Sorry but you don’t need to artificially create chaos to have it. 

Players and Coaches are  flat out getting successful results from team plans that are often needed to cope with chaos from the opposition. 

Have you ever played any team sport?  If you haven’t most teams  systems work to a relatively straight forward and simple but uncomplicated plan.

Players vary greatly in abilities and response  to learning so I am content to leave your suggestions to an American coach and team that seem to thrive on total chaos and near confusion. 

You are right chaos exists. It identifying the patterns within that is the secret, thats what coaches and teams are struggling with to cope. my suggestion is rather bthan reactive we become proactive.

Ive played plenty of team sports, watched more, and constantly see the unexpected (chaotic) act that often turns a game. The straight forward and uncomplicated plan is the standard to establish order. I play squash and line and length (like in tennis ) is the standard approach. I played above my ability by adding the tennis volley into the ordered squash game that was the standard of the Geoff Hunt era. Now the short rally is the norm as players attempt to disrupt the order. 

Its only chaos and confusion if you are not aware of it. There are patterns in the chaos. But your right its just another variable to consider., perhaps we just need to concentrate on kicking straight.

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

That's the major contrast between Demonland and the MFC forum on Bigfooty.

The average Demonland poster is way more optimistic than the average BF poster.

Whilst many Demonlanders are convinced we're still in the premiership window, many on bigfooty reckon we're going to go back to the pack and are quite frankly brutal and scathing on Goodwin.

Was on big footy for years but now the Dees forum there has devolved into the same two or three posters hijacking every thread with their own bull dust so it destroys any real analysis and discussion. Don’t bother any more.

24 minutes ago, DeeMee said:

Was on big footy for years but now the Dees forum there has devolved into the same two or three posters hijacking every thread with their own bull dust so it destroys any real analysis and discussion. Don’t bother any more.

BF has several loud posters that were banned from Demonland, including one pain that thankfully hasn't been on here for about a year

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

That's the major contrast between Demonland and the MFC forum on Bigfooty.

The average Demonland poster is way more optimistic than the average BF poster.

Whilst many Demonlanders are convinced we're still in the premiership window, many on bigfooty reckon we're going to go back to the pack and are quite frankly brutal and scathing on Goodwin.

It's hard to fathom how one could think we we are going to bomb this year.

Even though we've lost four straight finals, last year we almost won both of the two we played.

I was very disappointed and confused about some selections but we almost beat the  premiers of last season in our first final.

Not one person could say we weren't competitive in that game. Yes we used the ball poorly going fwd at times but in the game prior to it we lost a key player in Milkshake who had been playing some of his best footy and been a competitive fed target.

On game day we lost Gus in a very morale deflating manner very early in the game. His loss played a significant part so it's hard to claim the pies won fairly. 

Our loss against Carlton was a result of some more players missing.

But back to 24, anyway you slice it we still have a strong fairly young list that is definitely going to play finals again.

We also have a good deal of players we have developed and grown since 21.

The betting sites make good money from this game and the fact that we are placed at finishing fourth by all of them is not for nothing.

Collingwood are a good side but I don't think they were really much better than us or Brisbane.

They only just scraped in winning against the giants.

Brisbane will be a genuine threat but seem to be perennial bridemaids.

I'm not convinced about Carlton. Too reliant on a few players.

There will probably be a new kid on the block as there usually is.

If we get a good run regarding fitness and injuries this season, then it would be hard to understand how we cannot be a real contender again.

When you read most of the players reviews it seems most of us feel that many were down on their standard form last year and yet we were very close.

There have been a few off field distractions and noise in the media but I reckon this will actually work for us and be a genuine catalyst for us raising the cup on our hallowed home turf this year of the Dee.

To write a club off after a flag followed by two seasons of finals is just wrong. 

Edited January 8, 20241 yr by leave it to deever

58 minutes ago, Kent said:

Yes Brilliant to play and injured out of form TMac Showed great creativity  

I think the options in the end where either Tommy or Turner, who they had tried in a practice game.

That's how thin on the ground we were, we were even thinking of playing a kid who had never played forward in an AFL game. One who hadn't even established himself in his usual position.

The well had dried up 'Kent'.

What would you have done?