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If we miss the final 8 next year then ...


picket fence

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5 minutes ago, greenwaves said:

Picking our best team doesn’t mean we falll off the cliff either

I’m sorry but it does if you don’t regularly introduce younger players. It comes very quickly if you don’t constantly turn your list over and they all start to plateau around the same time.

 

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9 minutes ago, biggestred said:

we won a flag with jackson, pickett and rivers in the team as 2nd year players (and all under 20) + Jordon, sparrow as 3rd year and spargo and petty in their 4th years. 

Yeah but dazzledavey36 is suggesting we bring in nine new players who have little to no experience at AFL level

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8 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I’m sorry but it does if you don’t regularly introduce younger players. It comes very quickly if you don’t constantly turn your list over and they all start to plateau around the same time.

But nine new players as dazzledavey36 suggested?

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1 minute ago, greenwaves said:

Yeah but dazzledavey36 is suggesting we bring in nine new players who have little to no experience at AFL level

I never suggest you bring them all in at once...

You're getting confused. Some of those 9 have already tasted AFL action

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2 hours ago, picket fence said:

So if we took two steps back, one in 2022 and 2023 where does that leave us??

2022 and 2023 are examples of what will continue to happen if we don't take a step back and correct the deficiencies in our gameplan and on our list. I said at the end of this season i don't think we can win another flag with our current list and gameplan and i stand by it, we need to re-shape the whole list and tweak the game plan to keep up with the modern game, we are making top 4 on talent and being exposed by teams that are just simply doing it better than us. 

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An evaluation - review should have been done since finals time in the men’s season.No doubt a weakness in the forward line was gained.Thus Fullerton, McAdam, Tholstrup were signed up, along with Billings and Windsor to cover outside mid weakness.Fullerton to cover secondary ruck post.I still see a weakness there.Need to sort out overhang of court issues .President needs to sort out where she stands….re ground issue and to make hard decisions.Coaches , both men’s and women’s need changes in coaching - same voice maybe not getting through.Although Yze has left, McQualter comes in and needs to gain cohesion with mid team.Ditto ,women’s minds need to lift next season and need a quality back tall as an urgent requirement.Changes in the board could be a strong assistance re same old as been the motto for many years now.

I strongly believe both men’s and women’s teams are premiership hopes next year but players like Turner, Howes etc need to step up…Fullerton a major risk in the men’s.

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3 hours ago, Dwight Schrute said:

2022 and 2023 are examples of what will continue to happen if we don't take a step back and correct the deficiencies in our gameplan and on our list. I said at the end of this season i don't think we can win another flag with our current list and gameplan and i stand by it, we need to re-shape the whole list and tweak the game plan to keep up with the modern game, we are making top 4 on talent and being exposed by teams that are just simply doing it better than us. 

I think that's a pessimistic view Dwight.

Exposed by 7 points and 2 points in finals we should have won. If Angus didn’t get laid out we definitely win vs Collingwood and we played far better than Carlton but failed to convert.

With an ounce of reasonable fortune, not even good fortune, we're reigning Premiers.

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4 hours ago, greenwaves said:

Yeah but dazzledavey36 is suggesting we bring in nine new players who have little to no experience at AFL level

I don’t think he means all at once, Mcvee was a nobody this time last year, Bowey was 5 games winning a flag and I dare say whilst Hunt was in our best 22 Bowey offered us far more with his ball use. 
 

Teams who fail to turn over their group get passed by not to mention the best side changes from week to week depending upon opposition, tactics and conditions 
 

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Agree we need to get games into younger players. I think the club will have looked at what happened with Bedford and be keen not to make the same mistake again. If we don’t get games into young players we run the risk of losing them. 
It was interesting to hear JT suggest that we drafted for needs to an extent this year and that our two first round picks are our in his opinion are the most likely to debut first this year. 
Drafting for this flag window and also for the future. 

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One of the biggest 'learnings' from 2022 was that we didn't give players outside of the current best 22 enough exposure at senior level.

In 2023 we learnt that McVee and JVR are going to be mainstays and have long careers in the AFL. We also saw enough from Woey Jnr to suggest he has good attributes, and likewise Laurie. Howe would have debuted if not for injuries. 

It is important that no matter where you are in the cycle, you continue to push to develop your younger group. 

In 2024 I want to see more of Turner, Howe and potentially give the new draftees a little taste. I would hope Chandler can continue to impress, and Laurie is given more chances, as his greatest strength being ball use, is one of our biggest issues. 

Our window is certainly not coming to a close anytime soon. The biggest issue we will face is replacing May.

Gawn is irreplaceable, but likewise you can absolutely win a flag without a gun ruck. Many big bodied average rucks have won their teams flags. Just look at this year.

But the core of our group, are still in their prime or yet to hit their prime. While we have the likes of Trac, Clarry and Lever, we will continue to be a very strong contender, so long as we continue to push and develop the other players around them.

 

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20 hours ago, old55 said:

Exposed by 7 points and 2 points in finals we should have won. If Angus didn’t get laid out we definitely win vs Collingwood and we played far better than Carlton but failed to convert.

Well said @old55 Yes we LOST the 2 finals. Not beaten. Not outclassed. Not humbled. Self destruction in a way. That’s the fix and it’s under our control.  Goalkicking. Forward line strategy. Decisions. All have been called out for a long time.  

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46 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Exactly. Why? He’s a top bloke. Funny. Likeable. But really? We need forward strategy by a bloke with forward craft. Stafford is a ruck coach. Full stop. 

Yes, it's strange that the bloke that has been in charge of our biggest area of concern hasn't been looked at. Wonder if we have tried to find a replacement.

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16 minutes ago, FearTheBeard said:

Doubt we would miss the 8, but if we can't win a final the coach can go.

Adam Simpson, and to a lesser extent Bevo and Chris Scott (prior to his 2022 flag) are examples of how much capital and extended job security a coach gains from winning a flag.

How Adam Simpson survived the 171 point belting to Sydney (15 points less than Dean Bailey's 186) and even Sean Payton (coach of Denver Broncos) surviving a 70-20 mauling, albeit at the start of his tenure with his new club, in the NFL is beyond logic - aside from the fact that they've won a premiership.

I don't 100% disagree with you that he should be sacked if we fail to win yet another final next year, but I can't see Pert and Roffey getting rid of him after what he achieved for the club in 2021.

 

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20 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Adam Simpson, and to a lesser extent Bevo and Chris Scott (prior to his 2022 flag) are examples of how much capital and extended job security a coach gains from winning a flag.

How Adam Simpson survived the 171 point belting to Sydney (15 points less than Dean Bailey's 186) and even Sean Payton (coach of Denver Broncos) surviving a 70-20 mauling, albeit at the start of his tenure with his new club, in the NFL is beyond logic - aside from the fact that they've won a premiership.

I don't 100% disagree with you that he should be sacked if we fail to win yet another final next year, but I can't see Pert and Roffey getting rid of him after what he achieved for the club in 2021.

 

Payton has turned things around though

Simpson’s contract saved him 

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No-one is suggesting we blood a bunch of new players at once but over the course of the season it would be nice to see X amount of games put into the likes of Howes, Woewodin, Laurie, Turner, AMW and so forth. 

The gap between the youth and 100 gamers is starting to grow. 

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35 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Payton has turned things around though

Simpson’s contract saved him 

He has indeed.

But I'm not sure a coach without Payton's superbowl resume would have survived conceding 70 points in an NFL game, which is the second most of all time. That would be the equivalent of giving up 230+ points in an AFL game and keeping your job.

Fair enough with Simpson's contact. A bit hard to remove someone with 2 years left, albeit a seriously under performing coach from a results perspective.

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20 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

He has indeed.

But I'm not sure a coach without Payton's superbowl resume would have survived conceding 70 points in an NFL game, which is the second most of all time. That would be the equivalent of giving up 230+ points in an AFL game and keeping your job.

Fair enough with Simpson's contact. A bit hard to remove someone with 2 years left, albeit a seriously under performing coach from a results perspective.

100% agree on Payton, anyone else out the door 

With regards to Simpson the two years would have had to have been paid out in full, some negotiating was tried but no budging on his part. I believe Josh Carr was sounded out but didn’t want to return to WA.  Would have considered moving to Melbourne (the city) but has a very good support network in Adelaide for a young family and is the highest paid assistant in the AFL

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