Why Melbourne Must Hire a Coach to Solve Their Forward Woes

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,938]

1 hour ago, Roy Boy said:

My Nana would come up with a better forward half game plan than Goody and Stafford.

1. Alternate leads, space it out.

2. Less bombing into forward line, and when it does, Kozzie stay down PLEASE.

3. Even if a grub kick comes in, Koz is faster than a lot of defenders.

4. Lower the eyes, the amount of times long bombs come flying in only to go straight to the opposition, it’s enough to send you bonkers.

5. Move it in quick, don’t give opposition time to ‘set up’.

6. Don’t rely on Gawn on a set shot, he’s a putrid kick for a professional footballer, even with the ‘apparent’ master coach Choco in his corner.

Tap BBB on the shoulder tell him he’s cooked and give home the role of forward coach restructure has contract and frees up a spot on the list.Move Stafford to specialist ruck and stoppage coach. If all that fails give Roy Boy’s Nanna the gig, I think she is onto something there. 

[Ollie fan 3,408]

2 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Ya. It's incredibly rare that player improve their kicking to a significant degree even if they want to. The muscle memory is too far engrained once they enter the AFL. Like a golfer who has to de construct his whole swing. 

I can't think of many players that went from horrible kicks to great ones just through training and practice. I can think of countless that remained awful, despite training their butts off I'm sure.  Jobe Watson became a very good kick over one off season but he was never that bad.   

Stewart Loewe was a shocking kick for goal but after years of dreadful kicking, he really worked on it and became accurate although lacking distance.

[Ollie fan 3,408]

40 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Dont mind the idea of a Gunston that could potentially play for a year and coach our group.

Can't Melksham play that role?

[Demonland 72,216]

 

[MoeSyzlak 669]

7 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Tracc and Max were the main offenders. 
I have Faith they can both improve with hard work over the off season 

Have to disagree on this one. They both have fundamental and critical root cause technique problems. 
 

Trac has an overly high ball drop which means it is often not a straight ball drop, and kicks across the ball. Those flaws are exacerbated by his baffling spinning of the ball in his hands when lining up for set shots. 
 

Max does just about everything wrong. Crooked run up, hold the ball at a weird angle which means an angled ball drop, spins the ball in his hands, doesn’t follow through on his kick etc. 

Lloyd, who is the best set shot I’ve seen in football has explained all this. 
 

It’s often hard to self-improve. So where are the coaches?

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

24 minutes ago, MoeSyzlak said:

Have to disagree on this one. They both have fundamental and critical root cause technique problems. 
 

Trac has an overly high ball drop which means it is often not a straight ball drop, and kicks across the ball. Those flaws are exacerbated by his baffling spinning of the ball in his hands when lining up for set shots. 
 

Max does just about everything wrong. Crooked run up, hold the ball at a weird angle which means an angled ball drop, spins the ball in his hands, doesn’t follow through on his kick etc. 

Lloyd, who is the best set shot I’ve seen in football has explained all this. 
 

It’s often hard to self-improve. So where are the coaches?

Both of these Boys should eye ball each other and get to work improving. Don’t tell me it can’t be done. It is all about attitude 

I have heard Tracc interviewed. He genuinely wants to be elite, kicking a Football is the absolute root of his craft, so get better. 
Max as Captain simply has to kick those clutch goals, when required 

We have wasted 2 years….

[jnrmac 20,093]

4 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

Can't Melksham play that role?

Won't he be out till august?

[monoccular 17,431]

6 hours ago, Brownie said:

It's a really good question.

To blame it purely on goal kicking is simplistic.

It was definitely a factor, however. IMHO

Because of slow ball movement, our forward line was typically congested with defenders and our forwards weren't leading into space or moving much at all.

Delivery therefore was typically a bomb to a clump and our forwards were continually smashed in packs (maybe more injuries and wear and tear at least).

Our small forwards were then trying to snap goals out of stoppages and through traffic or we were trying to take shots from poor angles or from 40 to 50m out.

I was really jealous of watching other teams move the ball quickly then centre those kicks to a forward leading into space 20 to 30m directly in front.

It hardly ever happened for us.

So, I think it's a mix of Fast ball movement, good delivery into the forward line and good leading and finishing by our forwards. Simple really I guess.

it's on Goodwin to fix this and... It's on Stafford to tell the coach what's not working.

I think Stafford needs to go and Goodwin needs to stop being so stubborn.

this "just pure numbers of forward entries will win us games" stuff is a rubbish way to look at things.

I wonder how long Petty and JVR will want to hang around if they spend another season or two standing under bombs and getting smashed?

you want to see Pickett reach his full potential? 

let him work out of the goal square one on one with space around him like Charlie Cameron gets. He'll beat almost anyone one on one.

Teams have worked us out. Come on Simon, stop being so stubborn and loyal to your mate. Make some changes.

We lost a flag this year because of our delivery and forward set up.

Steven May is bloody spot on.

“Because of slow ball movement, our forward line was typically congested with defenders and our forwards weren't leading into space or moving much at all.”

Good point, however the reverse could also apply - forwards failing to lead into space (or indeed to lead at all resulting in clumped packs)  results in mids not able to find a decent target and hanging on to it longer waiting for an option.  
 

Either way significant improvement and change is required. 
 

 

[DeeSpencer 25,715]

Stafford is an easy target. He might be the problem, he just as easily might not be. He's been dealing with makeshift personnel since 2021.

The one thing I truly believe is our forward line does a better job helping our backline defend than our backs do helping our forwards score.

We have to be prepared to give up the occasional bad turnover goal, open up space in our defensive 50 and even get short a defender out of position by our backs being prepared to run and spread the ball.

A simple rule of in one side, out the other for our backs will do wonders for scoring. No more bombing it down the line it came in on.

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,938]

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Stafford is an easy target. He might be the problem, he just as easily might not be. He's been dealing with makeshift personnel since 2021.

The one thing I truly believe is our forward line does a better job helping our backline defend than our backs do helping our forwards score.

We have to be prepared to give up the occasional bad turnover goal, open up space in our defensive 50 and even get short a defender out of position by our backs being prepared to run and spread the ball.

A simple rule of in one side, out the other for our backs will do wonders for scoring. No more bombing it down the line it came in on.

Bang on. I just want us to put a bit more value on offence. We work so hard and well behind the ball to set up and defend but we lack the same urgency when transitioning from defence to offence. We can win the ball in the back half and switch the kick but we don’t see players busting a gut to push over to that side of the ground which is the fat side to be an option. I noticed at our B  & F that Goody made a point of acknowledging Mick Stinnear and our AFLW team in particular the brand they play. I really hope that he adopts some of those methods and becomes more offensive. Have said it before and I stand by it I actually enjoy watching our AFLW team play more than our male team. It is not necessarily because of the results it is purely gamestyle. It would also be a more enjoyable brand to play as a player as well. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Dee Viney Intervention

[Brownie 5,981]

10 hours ago, monoccular said:

“Because of slow ball movement, our forward line was typically congested with defenders and our forwards weren't leading into space or moving much at all.”

Good point, however the reverse could also apply - forwards failing to lead into space (or indeed to lead at all resulting in clumped packs)  results in mids not able to find a decent target and hanging on to it longer waiting for an option.  
 

Either way significant improvement and change is required. 
 

 

Makes you wonder hey.
Saw a fair bit of footage on fox last year showing our forwards being very static.
You do wonder if the bomb into a pack is the last option because there's no-one in space worth kicking to.
Bringing it to ground and trying to score from a stoppage in the forward line seems a very low percentage option to me.
Can't completely blame the mids, can't completely blame the forwards, or the injuries or the kicking.
A bit of everything really. 

Whichever way you look at it, our systems need a refresh. That's something completely under our control. 
It cost us a place in the grand final this year I reckon.

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,135]

Time for a poll?

🔲 It's the entry method

🔲 It's the goal kicking

Edited October 17, 2023 by Timothy Reddan-A'Blew

[drdrake 3,178]

32 minutes ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Time for a poll?

🔲 It's the entry method

🔲 It's the kicking

The kicking into to f50 is the issue so really ticking both or do you mean the Goal kicking.

We have banged on about this for years, the game plan is based on the skill level of our players.  We need to be a contested team kicking to a contest as we don't have the skill by foot in our midfield.  Kicking long, repeat entry, score from pressure, that is us until we get some really good ball users in the midfield 

 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,135]

16 minutes ago, drdrake said:

The kicking into to f50 is the issue so really ticking both or do you mean the Goal kicking.

We have banged on about this for years, the game plan is based on the skill level of our players.  We need to be a contested team kicking to a contest as we don't have the skill by foot in our midfield.  Kicking long, repeat entry, score from pressure, that is us until we get some really good ball users in the midfield 

 

Thanks Doc. Corrected.

[Supreme_Demon 3,864]

What's happened to Stuart Dew I wonder? 🤔

As far as I know, he hasn't obtained a new coaching role yet.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

It's very hard to correct poor kicking at goal. It's often a psychological issue for some players. We have a few offenders and we all know who they are. Ironically they are great play makers and they often make up for it in other areas. That said there is nothing worse than a full-time fwd that kicks poorly.

Sadly Bbb, Tmac, Milk and Fritta who are all very accurate spent a lot of time injured this year. 

Thankfully Jvr is also very accurate and so is Petty although the latter has only had a small kicking at goal sample.

Perhaps a psychologist is needed as much as kicking specialist.

[ucanchoose 1,816]

On 17/10/2023 at 03:34, Little Goffy said:

Steve Johnson did just coach the Yarrawonga Pigeons to a premiership. But would he commute to Melbourne? There's no doubt as a player he had an amazing grasp of the dynamics of a forward line - more than once he was the leading goalkicker for Geelong despite not being the primary target.

I'd be keen to have him as a part-timer at least - valuable kind of voice to have in the room.

He was happy to get out of the afl system

[monoccular 17,431]

9 hours ago, Brownie said:

Makes you wonder hey.
Saw a fair bit of footage on fox last year showing our forwards being very static.
You do wonder if the bomb into a pack is the last option because there's no-one in space worth kicking to.
Bringing it to ground and trying to score from a stoppage in the forward line seems a very low percentage option to me.
Can't completely blame the mids, can't completely blame the forwards, or the injuries or the kicking.
A bit of everything really. 

Whichever way you look at it, our systems need a refresh. That's something completely under our control. 
It cost us a place in the grand final this year I reckon.

Just spread and break up the defence, even if nobody is ever going to kick it to you, they might to someone else !

[monoccular 17,431]

5 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

What's happened to Stuart Dew I wonder? 🤔

As far as I know, he hasn't obtained a new coaching role yet.

He may have just burst? (Sorry - out of here) 🙄

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

On 17/10/2023 at 13:24, Sir Why You Little said:

Certainly worth considering. Our goal kicking for most of 2024 was atrocious. With our Forward Entry numbers, we should have been unbeaten and winning every game by 10 goals. 
the Scoring Return was shocking 

No point in renewing then

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

On 17/10/2023 at 13:21, roy11 said:

The article is more about getting JvR and Petty (two relatively inexperienced key forwards) firing early and cohesively more so than our real issues.

A lot of our woes in 2023 were caused by the injury crisis, inaccuracy and decision making. Whether we like it or not the game plan is the game plan and I still believe if we have the cattle on the pitch we'd have had a much better end of the season.  Hopefully McQualter can address some concerns though re: delivery with some fresh ideas though.

These 3 will be the main threats in 2024.

• JvR - 20 years old kicked 28.9, he will build on this.
• Fritta kicked 35.25 missing a huge chunk of the season, two seasons prior he kicked 55.22 and 59.24 so he was a little off this year.
• Petty kicked 12.1 in a injury ravaged season, if his foot is good, he will be good.

They should all kick a bag in 2024.

The Depth options weren't that wasteful, they'll chip in this year, as will McAdam

• Melk Booted 20.11
• Joel Smith 11.4 in limited game time
• BBB 11.4 in limited game time

We had a decent return from the small forwards, but this is where it gets a bit more inefficient

• Pickett was 37.30 which was a bit wasteful but he's still kicked 120 in the last 3 season
• Chandler kicked 24.13
• ANB 19.11

Whoever is forward coach, needs to get Petracca sorted as he has kicked 28.34 and 19.31 in his last 2 seasons. He can definitely win a game off his own boot but needs to be more clinical. 

He needs to line up the drop and follow through.  It is important enough to drop him if he refuses.

Ditto Pickett flying fifth up rather than looking for the spill.  

Short-term gain for long-term gain.

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

On 17/10/2023 at 14:50, Jjrogan said:

I can't think of many players that went from horrible kicks to great ones just through training and practice.

My hero, Nathan Jones, was a poor kick at goal who became a good one.

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

 

i wonder what happened to number 8 Peter Johnston.  Mmmm?

[Go the Biff 3,433]

2 hours ago, redandbluemakepurple said:

 

i wonder what happened to number 8 Peter Johnston.  Mmmm?

Went to Geelong and missed easy goals for them as well

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

On 17/10/2023 at 16:45, Deemania since 56 said:

Let's not forget the improving JSmith in equations for forward line coherence and skills. He could well take another forward step from his opportunities.

It's amazing how this post has aged in such a short amout of time. 🙄

2 hours ago I'd have agreed wholeheartedly Deemania!