.

Edited October 19, 20231 yr by daisycutter

13 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Worse than a camp where players reported downright racism? Worse than a captain yelling racist comments? Really? 

Recreational drug use is rife in AFL and basically any high paying industry. You think no Adelaide player touches the stuff? Come on!

Haha really? Drugs in society is far worse then the two examples you've just brought, by an absolute mile.

Not only has drugs completely torn apart families and children in society but its also taken the lives of many good people.

I work in the child and abuse unit services in the region country areas and I'm seeing kids as young as 10 addicted and overdosing on the streets. Why? Because this is an intergenerational cycle that's been past down from their abusive parents or through the OOHC (out of home care system.) and its easy to get their hands on for a quick couple of bucks. It's cheap then ever on the streets.

There are simply no comparisons. Two completely different set of complex issues.

 

Edited October 19, 20231 yr by dazzledavey36

7 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

 

Yes I know it's used elsewhere but two wrongs don't make a right either.

I just have a real beef with drugs as my sister is a paramedic and the treatment medicos receive from Drug addicts is beyond comprehending.

hear what you're saying, jib

but there are drugs and there are drugs

don't think smokers are any more violent than non smokers for example

but i'm no expert on cocaine either

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Haha really? Drugs in society is far worse then the two examples you've just brought, by an absolute mile.

Not only has drugs completely torn apart families and children in society but its also taken the lives of many good people.

I work in the child and abuse unit services in the region country areas and I'm seeing kids as young as 10 addicted and overdosing on the streets. Why? Because this is an intergenerational cycle that's been past down from their abusive parents or through the OOHC (out of home care system.) and its easy to get their hands on for a quick couple of bucks. It's cheap then ever on the streets.

There are simply no comparisons. Two completely different set of complex issues.

 

Where have I ever said that drugs aren’t a major issue? Of course they are.

But let’s be realistic here, AFL players dabbling in cocaine is very different to people in regional communities who are addicted to hard drugs. Many many highly paid professionals, not just footballers, take recreational drugs. It’s definitely not great, but in most cases it also doesn’t result in hardcore addiction. That doesn’t mean it can’t or that we should applaud drug use, but it’s no different to alcohol. For some it’s a major issue and for some it’s not. 
 

I think you know very well that ALL clubs have players who partake in recreational drugs. My point is that no player would leave a club because of drug use, and naively walk into another thinking nobody there would touch the stuff. 
Don’t you think it’s curious that Adelaide was keen to get Oliver early on in the trade period, knowing very well he had issues? 

As for that Adelaide camp, well it ruined their club for a very long time. So it was a major major issue. 

Edited October 19, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

hear what you're saying, jib

but there are drugs and there are drugs

don't think smokers are any more violent than non smokers for example

but i'm no expert on cocaine either

 

Tabacco (like alcohol) are different to Cocaine in terms of side effects and total consumption but I get your point. 

From my understanding Cocaine (Manufactured version) is simply horrendous in comparison to the pure version.

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

As for that Adelaide camp, well it ruined their club for a very long time. So it was a major major issue. 

And that's what I fear will happen to the MFC.

I really really hope no other players or staff are involved.

23 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Who was that bloke from the swans who 10yrs ago declared half the comp was doin' coke and got shut down by the AFL.
Dale Lewis?

Yes Dale Lewis about 25 years ago or more and was never heard of in the footy world ever again sadly.

He was right on the money .

 

 

Petty is not the first and will not be the last to be in a situation where he has a preference to move closer to home and family. (yeah, I know he is from a small country town miles from Adelaide) 

I do not have a problem with that.

I will judge him by the way he plays and approaches next season. I will judge him on the fact he is a professional sportsman and I expect him to work and behave as a professional sportsman. 

 

29 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

And that's what I fear will happen to the MFC.

I really really hope no other players or staff are involved.

Involved in what? In this drug situation with Smith? 
I can guarantee you they weren’t having a party and snorting lines as a team. 

4 minutes ago, CHF said:

I will judge him by the way he plays and approaches next season. I will judge him on the fact he is a professional sportsman and I expect him to work and behave as a professional sportsman. 

 

He’s created a bit of a tricky situation for himself I think.  I agree that it’s how he responds that matters but he’s coming off a foot injury and will probably be in the rehab group for most of preseason. I’d assume after what has happened over the past few weeks he would have some bridges to build and a super impression pre season where he gives 100% all the time would go along way to achieving this. His injury prevents this. 
 

Also it will be harder to be in great form at the start of the season with an interrupted pre season.  His form early this season down back wasn’t great. Similar form will raise questions if he’s fully committed or already checked out. 
 

Hopefully he's foot injury doesn’t stop him being able to be ready to go round one and we can get him resigned. 

28 minutes ago, Hellaintabadplacetobe said:

Yes Dale Lewis about 25 years ago or more and was never heard of in the footy world ever again sadly.

He was right on the money .

 

Wonder when Andrew Demetriou is going to apologise.

1 hour ago, DEE fence said:

Wonder when Andrew Demetriou is going to apologise.

We both know the answer to that DF

2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Where have I ever said that drugs aren’t a major issue? Of course they are.

But let’s be realistic here, AFL players dabbling in cocaine is very different to people in regional communities who are addicted to hard drugs. Many many highly paid professionals, not just footballers, take recreational drugs. It’s definitely not great, but in most cases it also doesn’t result in hardcore addiction. That doesn’t mean it can’t or that we should applaud drug use, but it’s no different to alcohol. For some it’s a major issue and for some it’s not. 
 

I think you know very well that ALL clubs have players who partake in recreational drugs. My point is that no player would leave a club because of drug use, and naively walk into another thinking nobody there would touch the stuff. 
Don’t you think it’s curious that Adelaide was keen to get Oliver early on in the trade period, knowing very well he had issues? 

As for that Adelaide camp, well it ruined their club for a very long time. So it was a major major issue. 

You were the one making the comparison that someone yelling racist comments is far worse then someone taking recreational drugs. 

How you came up with that logic i have no odea. Doesn't matter what drugs it is, recreational has the potential to cause far worse damage or even death. It's destroyed families, marriages, lives and still continues to do so. I very well know players around the league certainly take drugs, it's still not an excuse.

Regarding Adelaide You're making out that the Crows culture is still in damage control lol. The camp situation happened only 6 years ago. Since then there's been a new coach, new leadership and overhaul of the list.

They're still attractive star players in the likes of Dawson and Rankine and just missed out on finals and we're close to nabbing a premiership CHB.

Right now, our issues that's going behind the scenes is far worse then what Adelaide is going through right now. Bringing up the camp situation from 6 years ago when the club has completely moved on from that is naive because they've shown that they clearly still attracting talent through the doors. They've completely turned their culture inside out since. Ours has since gotten worse.

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You were the one making the comparison that someone yelling racist comments is far worse then someone taking recreational drugs. 

How you came up with that logic i have no odea. Doesn't matter what drugs it is, recreational has the potential to cause far worse damage or even death. It's destroyed families, marriages, lives and still continues to do so. I very well know players around the league certainly take drugs, it's still not an excuse.

Regarding Adelaide You're making out that the Crows culture is still in damage control lol. The camp situation happened only 6 years ago. Since then there's been a new coach, new leadership and overhaul of the list.

They're still attractive star players in the likes of Dawson and Rankine and just missed out on finals and we're close to nabbing a premiership CHB.

Right now, our issues that's going behind the scenes is far worse then what Adelaide is going through right now. Bringing up the camp situation from 6 years ago when the club has completely moved on from that is naive because they've shown that they clearly still attracting talent through the doors. They've completely turned their culture inside out since. Ours has since gotten worse.

Well dazzler, I for one think yelling racist abuse is way, way worse than taking recreational drugs. Incomparably worse.

For one thing yelling racist abuse is, at least in my opinion, morally and ethically unacceptable.

In my opinion recreational drug use is neither.

Of course drug misuse is damaging to communities, particularly the most disadvantaged.

And the most disadvantaged of all are Aboriginal communities because of endemic systemic racism, which is underpinned by the sort of casual racism they are forced to endure (as bad as it is, the issue isn't really Walker yelling racist abuse at a local footy match - it's that he thought it was socially acceptable to do so).

Drug misuse is a symptom. And for many a form of logical self medication.

Recreational drug use harms the individual choosing to use them.

Yelling racist epithets harms the person being subjected to the abuse, anyone who hears it and the society as a whole. And Aboriginal people. Made 100 times worse when it is someone people admire and put on a pedastool like Walker. 

You seem to be conflating drug use and drug misuse. 

Of course if drug use becomes misuse it can cause untold harm on communities, particularly as you say disadvantaged communities.

And you are 100% correct there are many communities ravaged by drug misuse. 

I assume you have the same views on alcohol? That recreational alcohol use is worse than yelling racist abuse?

I  have worked in the community services sector for over 30 years.

For many years I worked in residential care with the kids you work with now. Damaged, traumatised kids removed from their families for their own protection.

I have worked in child protection, the youth drug space (rehab units), needle exchanges, harm reduction, youth refuges, family services, family violence, public housing and homelessness (family, rough sleeping, crisis).

On a personal level I was a young fella in Melbourne during the heroin epidemic in the 80s and early 90s. The Herald Sun had a daily overdose count such was the devastation and the music scene I was part of as a punter was devastated by the dragon, as were close friends.

I know the damage drugs can do. 

But i can categorically say that in my experience NOTHING comes close to the damage alcohol does. Nothing.

It's alcohol and then daylight on the scale of harm its misuse causes to kids, families and communities. Particularly the most disadvantaged ones.

4 hours ago, binman said:

Well dazzler, I for one think yelling racist abuse is way, way worse than taking recreational drugs. Incomparably worse.

For one thing yelling racist abuse is, at least in my opinion, morally and ethically unacceptable.

In my opinion recreational drug use is neither.

Of course drug misuse is damaging to communities, particularly the most disadvantaged.

And the most disadvantaged of all are Aboriginal communities because of endemic systemic racism, which is underpinned by the sort of casual racism they are forced to endure (as bad as it is, the issue isn't really Walker yelling racist abuse at a local footy match - it's that he thought it was socially acceptable to do so).

Drug misuse is a symptom. And for many a form of logical self medication.

Recreational drug use harms the individual choosing to use them.

Yelling racist epithets harms the person being subjected to the abuse, anyone who hears it and the society as a whole. And Aboriginal people. Made 100 times worse when it is someone people admire and put on a pedastool like Walker. 

You seem to be conflating drug use and drug misuse. 

Of course if drug use becomes misuse it can cause untold harm on communities, particularly as you say disadvantaged communities.

And you are 100% correct there are many communities ravaged by drug misuse. 

I assume you have the same views on alcohol? That recreational alcohol use is worse than yelling racist abuse?

I  have worked in the community services sector for over 30 years.

For many years I worked in residential care with the kids you work with now. Damaged, traumatised kids removed from their families for their own protection.

I have worked in child protection, the youth drug space (rehab units), needle exchanges, harm reduction, youth refuges, family services, family violence, public housing and homelessness (family, rough sleeping, crisis).

On a personal level I was a young fella in Melbourne during the heroin epidemic in the 80s and early 90s. The Herald Sun had a daily overdose count such was the devastation and the music scene I was part of as a punter was devastated by the dragon, as were close friends.

I know the damage drugs can do. 

But i can categorically say that in my experience NOTHING comes close to the damage alcohol does. Nothing.

It's alcohol and then daylight on the scale of harm its misuse causes to kids, families and communities. Particularly the most disadvantaged ones.

Whilst I still disagree with you still and could debate this further more I appreciate that you brought up some great point.

I don't work in the resi care system, it gave me a starting point in the sector and simply got out of it because it was too full on and the system in itself is broken. Been doing this for 11 years and it certainly doesn't get any better.

Some very good points in this thread. For mine a large part of problematic behaviour (to cover racism, alcohol & drug missuse broadly) comes down to societal norms and accesibility at the time.

Alcohol has stood the test of time and will always be prevalent in society. It's misuse causes widespread damage but given the prevalence its damage is blown out proportion a little bit.

50 years ago blaspheme was considered much more harmful than racism. Multiculuturalism came along and racism became a bigger issue. In another 50 years time there will be stuff we think is fine now that our grandchildren will think is completely unacceptable and morally wrong.

Drugs like dope & coke, although still illegal (or decriminalised), don't raise an eyebrow because they are considered socially acceptable.

Drugs like meth & juice are rife but not socially acceptable because of the carnage they are causing on the users.

In jail the population is loading up on bupe because thats the easiest thing they can get in.

Problematic behaviour is subjective, relative and evolving.

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Whilst I still disagree with you still and could debate this further more I appreciate that you brought up some great point.

I don't work in the resi care system, it gave me a starting point in the sector and simply got out of it because it was too full on and the system in itself is broken. Been doing this for 11 years and it certainly doesn't get any better.

By the by, dazzler, i wanted to clarify that leaving aside the issue of the impact of drugs on disadvantaged communities i wanted to make 1000% clear i think that as a society we should be doing everything in our power to reduce the likelihood all children (ie young people up to age of 18 and even a bit older) use drugs and alcohol whilst still children and their brain is still developing.

The research on brain development has come a very long way since i started in community services and it is now clear that use of any toxic substances, including alcohol, hugely negatively impacts the developing brain - which research suggests continues to develop up to aprox 25 (and beyond but much more incrementally). 

And i'd like to add that the work you are doing is so, so important. There is no more important work.

I often wondered when i was doing resi work, by far the hardest and most demanding work i have ever done, if i was making a difference.

Quite a few years later i was in homelessness and a kid from one of the units became a client of service. Great kid. Hadn't seen in him since working with him. 

And when he saw me he beamed and talked at length about stuff we had done together stuff and things i had said to him (that i could barely recall saying). He told me that i had indeed made a difference and he very much took on board some of my advice (i wish my own kids would!). Said that he always loved that he could tell i liked and respected him - despite the bat**** crazy stuff he often got up to (and it was crazy). Said that had been really important to him. 

From that day on, when supervising staff doing direct service who were worried they weren't making a difference i used that example and reinforced that we may never see it, but it's there. Big and small. 

Thank you for the difference you are making in the life of the young people you care, support and advocate for. We need more dazzlers.    

Edited October 20, 20231 yr by binman

Anyone who works in the care and teaching areas can make a huge positive difference to a child’s life. If you can inspire change and positivity in just one person, you have done your job.

 

14 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

Anyone who works in the care and teaching areas can make a huge positive difference to a child’s life. If you can inspire change and positivity in just one person, you have done your job.

 

True dat.

1 hour ago, binman said:

By the by, dazzler, i wanted to clarify that leaving aside the issue of the impact of drugs on disadvantaged communities i wanted to make 1000% clear i think that as a society we should be doing everything in our power to reduce the likelihood all children (ie young people up to age of 18 and even a bit older) use drugs and alcohol whilst still children and their brain is still developing.

The research on brain development has come a very long way since i started in community services and it is now clear that use of any toxic substances, including alcohol, hugely negatively impacts the developing brain - which research suggests continues to develop up to aprox 25 (and beyond but much more incrementally). 

And i'd like to add that the work you are doing is so, so important. There is no more important work.

I often wondered when i was doing resi work, by far the hardest and most demanding work i have ever done, if i was making a difference.

Quite a few years later i was in homelessness and a kid from one of the units became a client of service. Great kid. Hadn't seen in him since working with him. 

And when he saw me he beamed and talked at length about stuff we had done together stuff and things i had said to him (that i could barely recall saying). He told me that i had indeed made a difference and he very much took on board some of my advice (i wish my own kids would!). Said that he always loved that he could tell i liked and respected him - despite the bat**** crazy stuff he often got up to (and it was crazy). Said that had been really important to him. 

From that day on, when supervising staff doing direct service who were worried they weren't making a difference i used that example and reinforced that we may never see it, but it's there. Big and small. 

Thank you for the difference you are making in the life of the young people you care, support and advocate for. We need more dazzlers.    

A few on here will argue you on that 🤣

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

A few on here will argue you on that 🤣

I didn't mean on DL. 

I meant in the real world

On 19/10/2023 at 05:27, Engorged Onion said:

My views are, I feel so surprised that supporters get upset, when someone (only ever of value) wants to change their lifestyle for reasons they chose not to publicise.

At least he has had the decency to let the club know in advance so they can plan for it.

Of course, in the end he may stay - and that benefits us. But I'd argue he is one leg/foot injury away from having a career severely compromised by injury, conversely he is one non injury away from having a very very good career.

This is the dice to be rolled.

 

I fully support both Harry and the Club in their views of the recent trade fiasco ( largely from Crows officials and SA media outlets.) 

News Corp are a very biased organisation in both sport and politics but this TV tirade by the SA media about Harry was nothing but over the top and really not unexpected from a small town Woe is (us) me attitude. 

MFC and and its officials TL especially  performed this very professionally by strong statements publicly and as we all read great consultation with Harry through Goody and Richo and himself.

I personally believe much of the “go home” heat was created by the media and the ridiculous throw away AJarman line plus the Crows jumping on board to apply the blow torch to Harry to be fair is not Stephen May in public voice and opinion. I’s a real let my footy do the talking and that’s why we love him so much after performing Tommo’s role in the 2021 Flag. ( incidentally I have no doubt Disco will do the same when hopefully given his opportunity in Round1) 

Yes I don’t know how much Harry’s manager was involved but we have certain players who we can’t lose and with 2 more years on contract that seems about fair as he will be only 25 with 6/7 years ahead and Crows right in their premiership window again.

Furthermore why should we take into account any potential haste as a reason for his “only one injury away from his career end” potential scenario. 
That’s gazing into the future and has no realistic role in player decision making. We are nurturing him getting him back to full playing health so let us reap the rewards for that. 

And yes I have not mentioned Harry’s right to ask to return to SA but nothing has convinced me that an outlandish offer ( not dissimilar to Jake Levers ) from the Crows in part for our Lever heist and now that Macca ( McAdam) has had the strength to ask to be traded we have been insulted with the pathetic trade offers from an under pressure to recruit media and fantasy based officials that didn’t help at all in this matter

I am proud that our Club retain ed Harry ( as we did with Clarry) at this crucial period in our premiership window.

Go Dees and Harry P. 

 

 

23 hours ago, daisycutter said:

 

don't think smokers are any more violent than non smokers for example

 

Unless they're outta smokes.

Petty will be not a restricted free agent until the end of the 2025 season. If so, we would then have the chance to match any offer Adelaide put to him. If the Crows dangle a ridiculously excessive contract, we would hopefully get an appropriately high compensation pick. If he stays fit and continues to be a key player for us, the time for sentiment is over. The club is a business organisation and must play hard ball on its own rights. Increasing player power and movement are undermining the whole purpose of the draft system, which is to designed  to give struggling clubs high draft choices that provide them with long-term quality players. All the time and effort spent in  developing Petty into a top-class AFL player can't be done just for the benefit of another club. Petty knew perfectly well when he signed his current contract that he would be based in Melbourne until the end of 2025.

.

Edited October 21, 20231 yr by Rab D Nesbitt
Wrong thread