49 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

What Was the succession plan to replace these 2 key fwds as they were dogged with injuries & in particular brown who come with knee issues???

None as far as I can tell. Strange.

The writing was on the wall. Tmac had a very average finish in season 21. 22 saw him all over the place but he wasn't right to play finals. Bbb did and was and wasn't sighted.  This year it was reversed with Tmac playing finals and having no impact.

Maybe the club thought Grundy would make up for them both but that didn't work.

At the end of the day the club didn't really do anything to find a replacement for either of these two when problems arose over 24 months ago.

Some will argue there was nobody to recruit but there must have been someone. Even if they had to look outside the league. The club got it wrong.  Our fwd line failed in all four finals. Big time . And the absence and or poor performance of both of these players  was  a significant part of that failure.

 

Edited September 29, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

45 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

What Was the succession plan to replace these 2 key fwds as they were dogged with injuries & in particular brown who come with knee issues???

Spargo and Chandler.

1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

What Was the succession plan to replace these 2 key fwds as they were dogged with injuries & in particular brown who come with knee issues???

I guess we would have hoped they would see out their contracts in reasonable form, but unfortunately that hasn't happened.

The succession plan would be Petty, JVR, Jefferson and maybe another this draft/trade period.

O'Sullivan looks one who could play both ends and already has some good size. He will be there at 5 if we want him.

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Redleg

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

Some will argue there was nobody to recruit but there must have been someone. Even if they had to look outside the league. The club got it wrong.  Our fwd line failed in all four finals. Big time . And the absence and or poor performance of both of these players  was  a significant part of that failure.

Had the same thoughts yesterday. Cannot continue the same error in 2024.

One year contract for a makeshift forward. Perhaps a Melksham type if no talls available (McAdam is a decent start)

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Diamond_Jim

4 hours ago, Demonsone said:

What Was the succession plan to replace these 2 key fwds as they were dogged with injuries & in particular brown who come with knee issues???

I thought it was quite obvious - Petty and JVR. Unfortunately, Brown's injury worsened, TMac got worse/new injury (as I recall it), Petty got injured, and JVR was asked to do too much as a result, although to give him credit, he did as good a job as it was possible to do.

 Did people expect the club to have yet another reliable quality KPF, prepared to play at Casey for perhaps the whole season unless injuries happened? Precisely which player in the league would have signed up for that?

 

PS not to mention getting in Schache, who turned out to be a huge disappointment, and drafting Jefferson for the future.

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Ollie fan

2 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

PS not to mention getting in Schache, who turned out to be a huge disappointment, and drafting Jefferson for the future.

And not to mention training up Joel Smith as a forward - where he wasn't half bad, at least in the finals.

8 hours ago, Demonsone said:

What Was the succession plan to replace these 2 key fwds as they were dogged with injuries & in particular brown who come with knee issues???

I don't know ... taking two KPF's as our first choice in the last two drafts, bringing in Schache as cover, using Petty forward, training up J Smith as a forward ...

It was injuries plus a suspension that kiboshed those plans. We have the cattle.

4 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

PS not to mention getting in Schache, who turned out to be a huge disappointment, and drafting Jefferson for the future.

Probably best not to mention it Ollie

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Demon Dynasty

On 9/26/2023 at 6:37 PM, M_9 said:

I'm no knee expert but:

I have osteochondritis dissecans or bone on bone in one knee. It was a result of many years of playing basketball ie. running and jumping on an unsuitable surface (not sprung).

Chipped femur bone and cartilage were removed and I was advised not to run again lest I do more damage.

If BBB has bone on bone he's shot. Running and jumping would be painful and he'd be risking more damage to his the base of his femur or top of his tibia (my guess) and chronic arthritis (again, my guess).

Ben has been fantastic for us he has won the ultimate for the club and been excellent in a coaching capacity with the girls.

If his knee injury is too debilitating then the best course of action is to gain an injury related retirement.

His Salary would be paid out of the salary cap and would be best outcome for all parties involved.

Ben would know if this is the best case scenario.

9 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

None as far as I can tell. Strange.

The writing was on the wall. Tmac had a very average finish in season 21. 22 saw him all over the place but he wasn't right to play finals. Bbb did and was and wasn't sighted.  This year it was reversed with Tmac playing finals and having no impact.

Maybe the club thought Grundy would make up for them both but that didn't work.

At the end of the day the club didn't really do anything to find a replacement for either of these two when problems arose over 24 months ago.

Some will argue there was nobody to recruit but there must have been someone. Even if they had to look outside the league. The club got it wrong.  Our fwd line failed in all four finals. Big time . And the absence and or poor performance of both of these players  was  a significant part of that failure.

 

He was excellent in 21 along with Brown played their roles brilliantly.

 

7 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

He was excellent in 21 along with Brown played their roles brilliantly.

 

I thought Tmac dropped off in the middle of the season. Had a ripper first but if you go through the games, you'll find he didn't finish well. 

Remember when weid was given fames? There was a reason why.

I'm sorry but if you watch the games again you'll find I was right.

It was the start of Tmacs slump/ injuries.

 

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

22 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I thought Tmac dropped off in the middle of the season. Had a ripper first but if you go through the games, you'll find he didn't finish well. 

Remember when weid was given fames? There was a reason why.

I'm sorry but if you watch the games again you'll find I was right.

It was the start of Tmacs slump/ injuries.

 

In the back half of 21, T Mac may not have been the beast he was in 2017 / 2018, but what he did do, even in the back half of the season was push hard down the ground to be an outlet kick comming out of defense.

Didn't always mark it, but often did and was rarely beaten and if he didn't mark, it would be rushed out of bounds, meaning we were able to get our troops over and reset our zone.  His tackeling was also pretty good, as was his ability to break through tackles and get the ball moving 50m in our direction with his penetrating kicks.

I think he did everything we needed him to, in order to get us to that flag.

He was looking pretty good in preseason games and earlier this year before he injured himself again.  I'd agree that he appears to be past his prime, but you just never know he may still make some useful cameo appearances here and there and contribute while the next generation of key forwards comes through.

1 minute ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

He was looking pretty good in preseason games and earlier this year before he injured himself again.  I'd agree that he appears to be past his prime, but you just never know he may still make some useful cameo appearances here and there and contribute while the next generation of key forwards comes through.

It may not sound like it in my posts but he really has been one of my favorite players. But his body has really let him down.

Every time he's been back in I've thought just maybe. But I really reckon he went downhill mid 21. 

His quick goal in the Geelong prelim where he turned on a dime and kicked a goal was the last time I saw him move well.

He struggled in the 21 gf and has ever since.

His first 10 2021 games help secure a finals birth and he has been a wonderful servant of the club. Great memories of him running down the ground to take a good grab.

It's been over 2 years now for him to play a great game so it's hard to see him back. He's on the payroll though, so let's hope it happens.

On 9/27/2023 at 12:04 PM, Slartibartfast said:

FWIW Shaun Burgoyne and Andrew McLeod both played with bone on bone for years.  Shaun was supposed to have had it when he went to Hawks.  

They both weren't 200cm though.

You simply can't carry two injury prone under performing aged forwards.

If we had no salary cap and a list of 60 then maybe.. but in the real world something has to give

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

It may not sound like it in my posts but he really has been one of my favorite players. But his body has really let him down.

Every time he's been back in I've thought just maybe. But I really reckon he went downhill mid 21. 

His quick goal in the Geelong prelim where he turned on a dime and kicked a goal was the last time I saw him move well.

He struggled in the 21 gf and has ever since.

His first 10 2021 games help secure a finals birth and he has been a wonderful servant of the club. Great memories of him running down the ground to take a good grab.

It's been over 2 years now for him to play a great game so it's hard to see him back. He's on the payroll though, so let's hope it happens.

Agree his body has been his Achilles heal in recent times.

11 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

None as far as I can tell. Strange.

The writing was on the wall. Tmac had a very average finish in season 21. 22 saw him all over the place but he wasn't right to play finals. Bbb did and was and wasn't sighted.  This year it was reversed with Tmac playing finals and having no impact.

Maybe the club thought Grundy would make up for them both but that didn't work.

At the end of the day the club didn't really do anything to find a replacement for either of these two when problems arose over 24 months ago.

Some will argue there was nobody to recruit but there must have been someone. Even if they had to look outside the league. The club got it wrong.  Our fwd line failed in all four finals. Big time . And the absence and or poor performance of both of these players  was  a significant part of that failure.

 

Yet if Petty, JVR & Melksham were all available, we'd have been good to go

We win at least 1 final with those 3 fit and firing ... adding Fritsch, Kozzie & Petracca of course.  Gawn drifting forward occasionally to mix things up

T-Mac probably wouldn't have been in the side and the only real issue would be fitting all 3 of the aforementioned into the team

I don't generally like making excuses as we could have won either final anyway if we had our kicking boots on but structurally, we were cruelled by injuries to our forwards

In fact, we did remarkably well with a makeshift forward line.  Ordinarily, a top 4 team rarely, if ever, has a makeshift forward line

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Macca

We had bad luck with forwards and our backups are too old now. 

If either TMac or BBB intended to retire is there a reason why they would not have announced it by now?
An instruction from the club? 

7 minutes ago, M_9 said:

If either TMac or BBB intended to retire is there a reason why they would not have announced it by now?
An instruction from the club? 

I think its because neither of them intend to. Nor has there been any idea floated at any point other than blind hope by supporters in an attempt to free up list and cap space. 

7 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I think its because neither of them intend to. Nor has there been any idea floated at any point other than blind hope by supporters in an attempt to free up list and cap space. 

Unfortunately I'm starting to think this is the case.

I do wonder what the internal view of the club is vs supporters. Perhaps it’s not so black and white (good or bad). I also wondered about them, as the retirees were called out yesterday

Edited October 1, 20231 yr by Engorged Onion

22 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I think its because neither of them intend to. Nor has there been any idea floated at any point other than blind hope by supporters in an attempt to free up list and cap space. 

Does it does free up cap space if a contracted player retires?

Say TMac's contract stipulates that he is to be paid $600k next year.
I'd think that amount, or a substantial part of it (his payout figure) is still part of our TPP next year.
Even if either player was unable to get on the park for a senior game it may be that they'd be many $k better off by not retiring.

Edited October 1, 20231 yr by M_9

Title: "The Contractual Conundrum"

INT. MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT OFFICE - DAY

Simon Goodwin, the head coach of the Melbourne Football Club, sits behind his desk, wearing a sardonic grin. Ben Brown and Tom Macdonald, two veteran forwards who played pivotal roles in the club's Grand Final win two years ago, sit on the other side, looking bewildered.

SIMON GOODWIN
(raising an eyebrow)
G'day, fellas. I've called you in today because apparently, you've forgotten about a little thing called a "contract."

BEN BROWN
(confused)
A contract, you say? Is that like a footy team subscription service?

TOM MACDONALD
(scratching his head)
I thought we were still in the "free trial" period.

Simon Goodwin takes a deep breath, his sardonic grin unwavering.

SIMON GOODWIN
(with a smirk)
Yes, a contract, guys. It's that pesky document that says you're legally obligated to play for this club, whether you remember signing it or not.

BEN BROWN
(defensive)
We didn't exactly throw a contract-signing party, Simon. It's not like we RSVP'd for this.

TOM MACDONALD
(agrees)
Yeah, we're just a couple of accidental champions, apparently.

Simon Goodwin exchanges a sarcastic look with the Football Department representatives, who are struggling to contain their amusement.

FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT REP 1
(smiling)
You know, contracts are these quaint little things that specify you're supposed to kick footies, not miss goals, and avoid falling apart like a house of cards in a storm.

FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT REP 2
(nods)
And, believe it or not, the supporters expect you to remember how to do all that.

BEN BROWN
(confused)
But we've still got the moves, coach! We've accidentally pulled off some magic tricks on the field.

TOM MACDONALD
(enthusiastic)
Yeah, remember that time I turned a fumble into a goal? The crowd went wild!

Simon Goodwin can't help but roll his eyes before regaining his composure.

SIMON GOODWIN
(rolling his eyes)
I appreciate your inadvertent showmanship, but we've got this minor issue called "team performance" to consider. It's not a comedy show out there.

FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT REP 1
(sighs)
And, by the way, the medical team thinks you're trying to set a record for time spent in the treatment room.

BEN BROWN
(defeated)
So, what's the verdict, coach?

TOM MACDONALD
(nervous)
Are we being sent to join the local circus, at least officially this time?

SIMON GOODWIN
(grinning)
I'm not saying you're headed to the circus, but perhaps you could head the entertainment at our next fan event. Wink, wink.

The room erupts into sarcastic laughter as Ben Brown and Tom Macdonald finally realize the point about their valid contracts.

BEN BROWN
(sarcastic)
Oh, got it, coach. We'll make sure to honor our legally binding obligations as footballers.

TOM MACDONALD
(smiling)
Absolutely, time to dust off those clauses and fine print.

The Football Department representatives and Simon Goodwin join in the sarcastic laughter, relieved that the humorous take on the situation has lightened the mood.

CUT TO BLACK.

[End of Scene]

In this revision, Ben Brown and Tom Macdonald, still under valid contracts, are reminded of their contractual obligations in a sarcastic and comical manner, highlighting the irony of their situation to the supporters.

19 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I thought Tmac dropped off in the middle of the season. Had a ripper first but if you go through the games, you'll find he didn't finish well. 

Remember when weid was given fames? There was a reason why.

I'm sorry but if you watch the games again you'll find I was right.

It was the start of Tmacs slump/ injuries.

 

I remember a top of the table clash against Port in Adelaide when he was superb kicked 3 that night snapping and marking the night away from memory.

At the end of the day, bottom line our structure with BBB and Tmac lead us to a premiership glory.

Little signs might have been appearing but their output was what it needed to be along with the Gawn/Jackson combo.

The output diminished half way through 2022 after Tmac's injury along with a hobbling BBB and soon to be departing Jacko inept performances.

An certain amount of respect needs to be shown to both Tmac and BBB, at the end of the day these contracts were put in front of them.

 

 

Edited October 1, 20231 yr by YesitwasaWin4theAges