POSTGAME: SF vs Carlton

[layzie 33,862]

5 minutes ago, Great Northern Summer said:

Was cringing of the idea of listening to this next week. Now i'm embracing it with open arms (and ears).

 

 

I'm just going to drum this into myself.

 

 

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

13 minutes ago, Wodjathefirst said:

I’m guessing out of the 96k that went to the game it seemed they had 60k and we had at best 36k.  Sort of sad.
 

It’s pathetic. I’m not have a crack at our mob but I was so disappointed the sheer difference in support. What is it that makes us have this little support? 

[Older demon 2,741]

Let me tell you it is no better being in Europe I am so disappointed. Once again this club lifts you up promises the world and crushes your soul. Will the players be extra gutted pre season for going out in straight sets again?

I hope the review is brutal and honest. None of Goody's corporate speak and learnings. Mate we just had our backsides handed to us on a plate for the second year in a row and this year both losses were self inflicted. Good team don't do that.

Get in an external reviewer because internally the club clearly cannot self assess and see what it is doing wrong and how to fix it. We have had 22 weeks of learnings about connection to the forward line not to mention last year. The definition of stupidity is to repeatedly do the same thing. I f Goody is to stay his assistants need to go because we have not improved1 %

Rant over just do something

[Great Northern Summer 708]

Like a lot of posters, for some reason, last week's loss felt more gut wrenching than tonight. 

We owned Collingwood after 1/4 time. The path was clear for us - we win that - we get a home Preliminary Final against an interstate team, leading to a likely Grand Final appearance. That loss hurt more than any loss I can remember, perhaps since the 2002 Semi Final (which was one that got away).

Unfortunately, tonight was predictable. Too predictable. Scores were almost level at 1/2 time, yet we totally owned the game in the 2nd half. The fact we could never get more than a goal ahead despite controlling general play almost entirely against a side that stopped running (for the most part) was the problem. Unlike last week where we couldn't get space in our forward 50, this week we could, mainly because the game wasn't played entirely in our forward half. On a dry night, we just botched chance after chance. To kick 4-5 behinds in a row late in the last 1/4, when most of those shots were getable, was nothing others than disgraceful. That was on top of all of our other missed set shots, when Carlton scored most of theirs. To have our captain miss two sitters and not sheppard the ball through when Oliver kicked at goal late - just mind boggling. To have zero composure in the last two minutes, despite all of our efforts to ice the game, you honestly couldn't make this up.

When the dust settles, we will realise our game does stack up and tonight's loss had nothing to do with poor coaching (albeit it was strange TMac wasn't subbed off for Schache). If we won last week or this week, it wouldn't be questioned. I, like everyone else here, get a little sick of references to 'expected score' and 'key stats and takeaways' after losses; however, they are accurate references. Irrelevant to progress and winning finals, but they do show that we dominated two high pressure finals in front of big crowd. It all came down to goal kicking, which frankly is purely psychological and a little bit of luck (hitting the post regularly is just that). I've just never seen a team choke as badly in front of goal in consecutive big games - I remember North in the '98 GF, Essendon in the '99 PF and Geelong in the '08 GF as other bad examples, which were costly (probably costing all premierships), but these instances didn't happen 'twice in a row'. 

The old adage that the best teams have the best 'worst 6' in their team out of all contenders, in my view, isn't quite accurate. It's more about your top 6-8 players. They need to be stand outs. The rest are role players. We will see some turnover of our role players. We do need more precision and execution from our top line players. Two of our top 6-8 are arguably Lever and Viney, and they arguably cost us the game at the very end with poor decisions and execution. These blokes are on big coin and have leadership/responsibility, they need to accept that, embrace it, and stand up when it counts. Unfortunately my mind goes back to Lever late against the Lions last year being pinged for holding the ball, and his retaliation, when the game was on the line. He needs to do better.

Last year, we simply couldn't run out games. We weren't fit enough. In almost all of our losses in the back half of the season, we were ahead at half time and progressively slowed. We started games off with a bang and relied on getting big leads and hanging on to win. In truth, there wasn't much difference between the Lions game in the last H&A round and the semi final - in the last H&A game, we converted just about every opportunity and got a big enough lead to knock the Lions out; in the semi final, our kicking at goal early was horrible, which meant our lead not enough to stop the eventual fade out (or take over). In hindsight, our finals bomb out was predictable, especially given we were pretty banged up. Was it a Premiership hangover? Were players unable to complete full pre-seasons? It's irrelevant because we unpacked that this time last year. This year was so much worse, because we were arguably the fittest side in it, the side that could run games out better than anyone else. Yes, we had a few players out, but nothing out of the ordinary, and not one of our AAA players (accepting Petty is very important for structure and Brayshaw's last two months have been sensational). This is the year that got away. Purely because of composure kicking at goal and smartness on the ground when it mattered. It hurts.

[rufus 1,162]

17 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

It’s pathetic. I’m not have a crack at our mob but I was so disappointed the sheer difference in support. What is it that makes us have this little support? 

It's our style of play. We try to beat every opponent exactly the same way...and by 10 points. It is like pulling teeth to watch. We are told it is 'built for finals' but when we get there and watch the inevitable calamity unfold it just drains all enthusiasm.

I think deep down nobody trusts what this club is going to do so they don't want to make too much noise fearing the inevitable ridicule.

[DubDee 25,905]

i am so gutted. can’t sleep 

[censored]!!!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,841]

3 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Seriously should have kept Bedford.  Did we consider matching GWS's offer or were we just happy to let him go without a fight?

Gave away any speed we had in Baker (probably the right call), Hunt (fair enough to a degree as he had a shocking 2022) but to also seemingly  not fight all that hard for Bedford?  Our last really zippy small on the list outside of Kozzy & AMW that had showed he had potential with his few limited entries as sub, then straight back to Casey.

Great post overall DD, but this is the part that really got me.  I didn't think Hunt was a complete loss in 2022 and if you look at it, he was a key component why we beat Carlton in our second last H&A last year.  Still for our list profile his age wasn't something that went in his favour, so can understand why we let him go (I'd still rather have kept him in a way), similarly Baker.

But Bedford always looked like being a quality player and like you I don't feel like we fought hard enough to keep him and got sweet FA in terms of trade compensation for him too.  When Geelong had their period of sucess 2007 onwards, they created a culture of guys that were willing to hang around on less money and/or more limited oppertunity, in order to be part of a great side and this is something I don't think we've emulated as well as we could have.

[Demonsone 2,042]

1 hour ago, Older demon said:

Let me tell you it is no better being in Europe I am so disappointed. Once again this club lifts you up promises the world and crushes your soul. Will the players be extra gutted pre season for going out in straight sets again?

I hope the review is brutal and honest. None of Goody's corporate speak and learnings. Mate we just had our backsides handed to us on a plate for the second year in a row and this year both losses were self inflicted. Good team don't do that.

Get in an external reviewer because internally the club clearly cannot self assess and see what it is doing wrong and how to fix it. We have had 22 weeks of learnings about connection to the forward line not to mention last year. The definition of stupidity is to repeatedly do the same thing. I f Goody is to stay his assistants need to go because we have not improved1 %

Rant over just do something

Review needs to be on Goodwin & coaching staff who agreed to the Grundy trade which is a disaster , not playing him & watching 4-5 times with no ruck in our fw50 was pathetic! Watching Schache sit on the pine who played on 2 games for the season whilst T Mac should have retired long ago, absolute Amature hour by Goodwin 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,841]

3 hours ago, Wodjathefirst said:

The umpiring was disturbingly bad, that is a fact. (The four umpire system was a complete failure all year and sadly, I think it is here to stay)

 

2 hours ago, Hatchman said:

I never say much about the umpiring but it was disgusting. The AFL has to improve the standard of umpiring, it is just not good enough. 

The umpires tonight were putrid. 

Can say all everything that needs to be said about our poor goal kicking (which I think is actually more to do with our game style, which somewhat forced us into where we took our shots from where we did and results and more rushed behinds) but asides from that the guys tried their guts out and in reality I thought we dominated the second half.

Feeling really bitter and cheated by the umpires last night though 26 free kicks to 19 and giving them 3 x 50m penalties (only 1 of which I could actually understand what was there for) to our zero absolutely shifted the momentum of the game and kept them in it.  Some absolute shockers in the last quarter in this respects - giving them deliberate out of bounds when it hadn't been paid all night, that dubious free kick in our forward pocket, that to rub sault into the wounds they then paid 50 on top of and took the ball from deep in our 50 when we were applying the screws to 2 / 3rds the way down the feild, that rubbish free against Sparrow on their half forward flank when they got into him.  Total bias BS.  In a game of inches, they gave them a mile and helped them over the line last night.  Freaking furious.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[58er 6,460]

5 hours ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

This Is why we’re not a big club and we’re not taken seriously and we don’t draw big crowds. 

We can’t be trusted. 

Bunch of chokers. 

Fancy handing a prelim to the blues on a freaking platter. 

Wrong 

1.1 million crowds and 6th in total H and A crowds. Don't bring up the McClure and Caro phobia about our crowds.

[Demonsone 2,042]

Feeling guttered as once again this team is finding away to lose and the afl world is reconnecting the mfc to the failures of an before our 21 flag which always get views as a covid flag. The straight sets exits , 2 seasons in a row will raise its ugly head and questions,  can this club deal & sustain continued success due to 5 decades in the wilderness. Reinforcing this the decision to get Grundy has failed miserably and why wasn’t he used in 2 finals whilst we watched a 4/5 ruck contests in our fwd 50 with no Dees player competing. watching T Mac who isn’t AfL standard, whilst we had Schache  as a sub who only played 2 games prior , why have him as a sub??? twice in 2 weeks wasted opportunities in front of  goal & the continued bombing thinking we still had swarta & Neitz as our fwds, the window is almost shut yet another 2 years for Goody was approved before the finals.. yeah his our last premiership coach & yet could be attached to not winning another final and watching us fall of the cliff which all supporters have seen many a time! 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Demonsone

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,841]

2 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

It’s pathetic. I’m not have a crack at our mob but I was so disappointed the sheer difference in support. What is it that makes us have this little support? 

I think we do all right for attendance and passionate supporters, but our lack of co-ordinated vocal support is apaulling.

I think it's great the Demon Army have supposedly created a fun, social atmosphere, but they need to tell whoever leads their chants to step asides, because they don't have a clue and they have killed the vocal support for the team.  The pace of the chant they orchestrate is too fast and doesn't give the rest of the ground a chance to match the pace and join in.  Location behind the goals is also wrong as it is only a pocket of our supporters that sit there and it's hard to get the rest of the crowd to join in from that location.  

I feel the only time we do get a decient chant going it doesn't originate with the cheer squad and that's a real disadvantage.  That and that the MCC portion of the crowd actually need to get loud and support the team, rather than just be there to look pretty and socialise down in the bull pit or where ever.

I actually think the MFC did themselves a huge disservice with turning the former 'red seat' area on level one of the Northern Stand into a reserve seat only area that is now only ever half full as our previous MFC members area was always full and full of passionate supporters and the chants were led from that location by the cheer squad.

As for Carlton's crowd tonight, full credit for turning up and getting loud, but the degree of booing of every opposition shot on goal is an absolute disgrace and they've taken that mantle of bad sportsmanship from West Coast.  I can understand the odd boo, when the shot is being taken from a rank free kick, but to boo each and every shot is poor form and shows them up as being a bunch of ferals. 

[praha 11,240]

Just came here to remind everyone that we paid 700k to an AA ruckman to not play so we could play a VFL plodder because we needed a "big body" that could bring the ball to ground except he barely got near it. Only to then have Petracca and Oliver take the ruck at some stoppages in the last quarter.

[58er 6,460]

2 hours ago, Gunna’s said:

I’d love to see Naughton in our jumper next year. Not the best kick but suits or dump kick in style as he contests hard. 
 

Naughton, JVR, smith, Pickett, ANB and chandler/spargo/anyone else who pinch hits (trac, Petty or resting ruck)

That should scare and stretch defenses.  

Petty is not a pinch hitter he is the major player please !!

[David-Demon 567]

4 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

 

Shocking first three quarters.  A complete liability.  Thought he turned  things around a little in the 4th.

Can't recall sighting Sparrow much in the first half either.

And what's happened to Viney!!??  Three of his last four finals appearances have been ordinary to say the least.  And the other was barely 'ok' compared to his usual H&A standards.

He had an amazing 2021 finals series and has pretty much turned to crud since.

Viney for mine had a good serviceable game. 

[Demonsone 2,042]

29 minutes ago, praha said:

Just came here to remind everyone that we paid 700k to an AA ruckman to not play so we could play a VFL plodder because we needed a "big body" that could bring the ball to ground except he barely got near it. Only to then have Petracca and Oliver take the ruck at some stoppages in the last quarter.

Spot on it’s pathetic and laughable! Who’s held accountable for the Grundy disaster??? Schache sitting on the pine not used another strange selection whilst t Mac should be out to pasture! Goodwin another 2 years to oversee the demise of this list touted to win multiple flags!

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,841]

1 minute ago, David-Demon said:

Viney for mine had a good serviceable game. 

Maybe, but if we'd had the Jack Viney that rises to the occation, plays out of his skin and carries the team on his shoulders version of Jack, we'd probably have won.

I'm not being hard on Jack, because the reality is it's neigh impossible to do that every week, but it would have been nice.

We got smashed at centre clearances at times tonight and some better performances out of our mids might have just got us over the line.

[Bystander 903]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They clearly had him as sub as insurance in case Max went down because they needed another ruck option but didn't want to name Grundy in the 22. Just dumbfounding decision making by the match committee, they should have brought in Grundy, dropped TMac and put Hibberd or another runner as sub.

Think that pretty much sums it up.

[GBDee 352]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

 

The umpires tonight were putrid. 

Can say all everything that needs to be said about our poor goal kicking (which I think is actually more to do with our game style, which somewhat forced us into where we took our shots from where we did and results and more rushed behinds) but asides from that the guys tried their guts out and in reality I thought we dominated the second half.

Feeling really bitter and cheated by the umpires last night though 26 free kicks to 19 and giving them 3 x 50m penalties (only 1 of which I could actually understand what was there for) to our zero absolutely shifted the momentum of the game and kept them in it.  Some absolute shockers in the last quarter in this respects - giving them deliberate out of bounds when it hadn't been paid all night, that dubious free kick in our forward pocket, that to rub sault into the wounds they then paid 50 on top of and took the ball from deep in our 50 when we were applying the screws to 2 / 3rds the way down the feild, that rubbish free against Sparrow on their half forward flank when they got into him.  Total bias BS.  In a game of inches, they gave them a mile and helped them over the line last night.  Freaking furious.

You’re spot about these momentum shifts. You see it nearly every game btw.

7 minutes to go, 9 points up and it’s locked in their right forward pocket.  We’re on top, pressing, and a goal then and you sensed it was over. Carlton needed help, so a non-existent free kick against TMac for high contact gets them out of jail (with 50m for good measure). Momentum swing handed to Carlton.

2 minutes remain and we're still 3 points up. They've just been called back for an illegal kick-in after a behind and umps are getting it from their fans. The retaken kick-in reaches the square and Cripps, surprise surprise, gets another non-existent free for high contact at the front of the pack. Wasn’t touched. Another Carlton leg-up and a free i50.

Umps were actively looking to give a free in both cases to play to the narrative, be that to favour the big club (or star player), create a dramatic climax, keep their job, or avoid assassination by social media. I hate them.

[Jibroni 5,004]

Cabt sleep much right now, just so angry we lost again.

If Carlton play Collingwood in the GF then im moving to Alaska.

[DutchDemons 1,430]

I am desperately trying to figure out which of the unhinged posters on Demonland is the toothless dees fan the camera focused on for a while on the telly.

[John Demonic 5,816]

I was more upset about the Brayshaw concussion tbh - it really felt like that incident sewed the seeds for what was to come. This result was not surprising at all. We all 'felt it coming' - the media tide against us was some kind of forewarning that the comp would rather see us fail and suffer. Not to play the victim, as we OWN our own destiny, but the feeling of dread was there.

Edited September 15, 2023 by John Demonic

[John Demonic 5,816]

1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

Spot on it’s pathetic and laughable! Who’s held accountable for the Grundy disaster??? Schache sitting on the pine not used another strange selection whilst t Mac should be out to pasture! Goodwin another 2 years to oversee the demise of this list touted to win multiple flags!

My question is: Which person is being unprofessional in regards to playing Grundy or not? Maybe im basing it on nothing, but I get a 'feeling' that Goodwin may pretend to be all about the: 'we're professionals, its where the game is heading' mindset, but deep down he is as tribal as Riccuito, and would let a personal grudge, cloud his judgement on team selection.

We should've played Grundy this week at least.

And last week too. I was wrong last week in regards to TMAC. But oh well, can't fault a person for trusting a premiership hero to give it one last shot.

Edited September 15, 2023 by John Demonic

[58er 6,460]

6 hours ago, Beetle said:

On the train home and absolutely gutted. A game we had control of and  should have won.

Some form of mini clean out of coaches/players required before next season please.

Despite talent, this album is becoming extremely predictable, ineffectual and boring. While the window is ajar make changes. Throw the cheque book at the best available forward and draft some speed.

PS Carlton supporters up and about are on par/worse than the filth.

Thanks

 

No they are not feral like the filth. On a roll which will show how far they are off a flag really when the Lions feed on them and create a 5/8 goal buffer. Great effort by them after a scary early season but I refuse to believe they have gone past us for 2024. 

[Kent 2,911]

8 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

To the morons who had a dig at me for saying our goal kicking coach wasn't doing their job....pull your heads in.

Back to the drawing board.

And the umps WERE garbage despite our loser goal shots.

I won't mention Tmac.

TMAc had the worst stats on the field Embarrassing really