POSTGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[Travy14 1,917]

Tough hard footy, good to have a game like that before finals.  another slow start in picking up the game tempo hurt us.

I'm not sure what the coaching panel are thinking but I don't think Grundy can be a Full forward.

I'm not sure where we go with our forward line though, here's to hoping that T-Mac finds 2018 form.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, D4Life said:

Didn’t see game - out of country

Summary - goal umpire error

Umpiring - normal bad

Demons 6.5 /10 

Bit stiff, move on

No high marks from talks in forward line

Max mauled as usual

Disappointing not a disaster

Nobody injured 👍👍

Smith took one overhead contested mark inside 50.   Went back and slotted it from a tight angle.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Travy14 said:

Tough hard footy, good to have a game like that before finals.  another slow start in picking up the game tempo hurt us.

I'm not sure what the coaching panel are thinking but I don't think Grundy can be a Full forward.

I'm not sure where we go with our forward line though, here's to hoping that T-Mac finds 2018 form.

If he can run out the game at Casey and pulls up fine, even at 80% fitness, he should be straight in for Grundy.

Tomo in for JJ.

Moniz or Woey would need to have a VG game but if so i'd bring one of them him in for Chandler who was horrid.

Spargo also but again would need to play at a much higher standard vs recent weeks.  Just so so at Casey.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Not by a long shot.
I'd like to see more sheperding too.
They're all running on for the 1-2 when they could be opening up space for the ball carrier.

Also gives a bit of extra time for the ball carrier to execute skills by foot and / or draw the player in front to get the overlap going by hand

[Bystander 903]

6 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Yep umpiring remains a blight on the game. The introduction of a 4th umpire has only added to the inconsistency and the adjudication of a supposed ‘elite’ level of sport remains a farce. Prime example also last night with Jeremy Cameron clearly being OOB when marking and when also receiving a handball.

fourth umpire was a mistake by the AFL...chance of admitting error and reverting...nil

[fr_ap 2,488]

Everyone saying "we can play better" - no, against Carlton, we can't. They have picked our method (contest and defence) and right now are better at it. Q1 their wall was on full display and we had no answer for it. There was nothing we could do to play better under that sort of pressure. 

I said in the pre-game we would struggle to score against this Carlton defence, especially with Petty out as Melksham wouldn't compete against Weitering. I was bang on. 

They're the best defensive side in the comp since Rd 10 by a very, very long way. 

I'm not sure I can recall us having even one simple chain of uncontested possession. Or a clear contested mark win. Blues fought and scragged and neutralised every single ball. Whether you're Owies or Acres or Holland's - they brought the ball to ground and held and pushed in every single contest. Like we used to. 

If they play like that - they won't lose another game and will absolutely go all the way. There is no side that can handle that sustained level of pressure, and there's no side with the get-out-of-jail-free card they have down the other end in Curnow. 

We've never been the most skilled and our gameplan is literally to bludgeon the opposition into submission. We got bludgeoned back. For the first time I can recall since we elevated to one of the best teams. 

Rd 6 '21 was when we took the mantle from the Tigers as the toughest team going around.

I think we've just had it taken off us.

"We'll get them in September"?

Don't think so. 

A few weeks to go -the top 4 theorising is pointless unless you claim to predict Brisbane and port's movements - we will play who we play. 

Oh - and also as I said, Grundy back in and our stagnancy returns. Yes his individual output was good, but that misses the point. He's always been Ok - he's a good player - but he makes our greatest trump card - Max - worse. For some reason. He can't be picked again. Just doesn't fit. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by fr_ap

[Travy14 1,917]

45 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

If he can run out the game at Casey and pulls up fine, even at 80% fitness, he should be straight in for Grundy.

Tomo in for JJ.

Moniz or Woey would need to have a VG game but if so i'd bring one of them him in for Chandler who was horrid.

Spargo also but again would need to play at a much higher standard vs recent weeks.  Just so so at Casey.

Chandler is as safe as houses, has been one of our best since he came back in.  and even today he kicked a goal, had 1 goal assist and 5 score involvements at 88% disposal efficiency.

Agree with JJ going out and I think Smith needs to go back to Sub, he just doesn't have the smarts for full games.  but has been very good as Sub this year

[dazzledavey36 54,936]

4 hours ago, JJR said:

You are the biggest sook on demonland,  the holiest of sooks. If there was a sook bigger than you, 99.9% of the population would be in shock. I don’t know who [censored] in your breakfast every morning but [censored] me dead. Most annoying person to brace the World Wide Web. 

They let you out for excursion time last night? 

Love how I'm living rent free in your head [censored] 🤣

[dazzledavey36 54,936]

6 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

No, nothing to do with loading or tapering IMV.

I think @DeelightfulPlay nailed it. Even though we only had two ins, we've had three major changes to three zones of the ground and this happened all in the last fortnight, so cohesion is out of whack.

1) Smith going back has meant our defenders don't trust each other. It starts with May, who rightly, doesn't trust Smith's zonal positioning, which leaves May trying to play 1v1 and zone, and ending up occasionally doing neither. This lack of trust then spreads through the rest of the back 7. One questionable link in the chain undermines everything. 

2) Clarry's return has thrown off the midfield balance and saw multiple players going for the same ball, instead of trusting each other to win it and take up aggressive outside positioning to receive. 

3) Petty's aerial threat and forward craft being replaced by Grundy, who offers neither of those things and also seemingly throws off Max's game is a double whammy. It means we have little aerial threat offensively and lack defensive pressure when the ball hits the ground. Chandler played 66% TOG tonight, but I have no idea what his role was. He was essentially a non entity.

So I think we need to drop JJ (which hopefully lessens the midfield problem by prividing clarity over roles) for Spargo and I'd bring in a speed forward (Spargo) who can do the gut running, high half forward role with ANB, so that Chandler and Kozzy can play closer to goal, and provide greater forward pressure.

I'd also play Smith forward and only back as an absolute break glass option. He's frankly sub if we think Tmac will give us an offensive threat.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

[Redleg 40,922]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Have we won in the wet all year? Essendon, Giants and Blues all wet and slippery conditions. Cats game too?

Port game too.

When you are poor at ball handling wet conditions can exacerbate it.

[pitmaster 3,549]

1 hour ago, Bystander said:

fourth umpire was a mistake by the AFL...chance of admitting error and reverting...nil

There was a clear instance last night where the umpires didn't know who was going to make the call on a tackle on a Demon (forget which one. It was the only tackle penalised for a sling. On the wing, in front of the MCC members, the umpire closest to it, with a direct line of sight, looked back towards his colleague in the direction of the Punt Road end, apparently expecting a call. When it didn't come the first umpire called it. Bizarre.

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

8 hours ago, monoccular said:

And by adding a fourth they have further depleted / diluted the talent pool from whence they select them.

Umpiring has never been worse. 

[BDA 22,755]

4 hours ago, Choof said:

Insulting.

Demon supporter for 40 years. 

 

And you’ve only just now found demonland. Where you been?

Edited August 12, 2023 by BDA

[Kent 2,909]

9 hours ago, Maldonboy38 said:

I have major issues with Salem running into an open goal, unpressured, and not making the distance from about 42 metres. I just don't get it. Furious with that.

Great game of footy, but we were beaten at our own game and looked slow around the contest, especially at stoppages. 

His Groin is knackered has been for years No penetration

[loges 6,767]

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

SWYL is very Angry 

That was a goal

i HATE everything about Carlton. There is no difference between them and Collingwood 

Never Forget that

Welcome back 

[pitmaster 3,549]

6 hours ago, layzie said:

What if the goal umpire heard a scrape? 

Leave your wisdom here..

Not  chance with that crowd noise.

[Webber 10,468]

3 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

There was a clear instance last night where the umpires didn't know who was going to make the call on a tackle on a Demon (forget which one. It was the only tackle penalised for a sling. On the wing, in front of the MCC members, the umpire closest to it, with a direct line of sight, looked back towards his colleague in the direction of the Punt Road end, apparently expecting a call. When it didn't come the first umpire called it. Bizarre.

That was the Rivers sling. Extraordinary incompetence once more. Theme of the night. 
 

 

[BDA 22,755]

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

His Groin is knackered has been for years No penetration

His wife won’t be happy with that

[homsar 431]

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Everyone saying "we can play better" - no, against Carlton, we can't. They have picked our method (contest and defence) and right now are better at it. Q1 their wall was on full display and we had no answer for it. There was nothing we could do to play better under that sort of pressure. 

I said in the pre-game we would struggle to score against this Carlton defence, especially with Petty out as Melksham wouldn't compete against Weitering. I was bang on. 

They're the best defensive side in the comp since Rd 10 by a very, very long way. 

I'm not sure I can recall us having even one simple chain of uncontested possession. Or a clear contested mark win. Blues fought and scragged and neutralised every single ball. Whether you're Owies or Acres or Holland's - they brought the ball to ground and held and pushed in every single contest. Like we used to. 

If they play like that - they won't lose another game and will absolutely go all the way. There is no side that can handle that sustained level of pressure, and there's no side with the get-out-of-jail-free card they have down the other end in Curnow. 

We've never been the most skilled and our gameplan is literally to bludgeon the opposition into submission. We got bludgeoned back. For the first time I can recall since we elevated to one of the best teams. 

Rd 6 '21 was when we took the mantle from the Tigers as the toughest team going around.

I think we've just had it taken off us.

"We'll get them in September"?

Don't think so. 

A few weeks to go -the top 4 theorising is pointless unless you claim to predict Brisbane and port's movements - we will play who we play. 

Oh - and also as I said, Grundy back in and our stagnancy returns. Yes his individual output was good, but that misses the point. He's always been Ok - he's a good player - but he makes our greatest trump card - Max - worse. For some reason. He can't be picked again. Just doesn't fit. 

We had so many opportunities to win. Salem would kick that goal 9/10 just for one example. Of course we can play better. We should have won in the end. 

[SPC 3,549]

Ladies and gentlemen.. after some soul searching last night, I am far more positive about things today. I agree with Goody, we are in good shape. 
Last night for the most part we were average and should have snatched that. We just need to figure out that forwardline puzzle and we will with it! Need a Schache or TMAC to put in a solid block and put their hand up for the 2nd key post. Fritta and Joel Smith will be a handful as 3rd and 4th talls.

Let’s move on from last night, focus on the potential for growth we still have!

Finish 4th and we will beat the pies at the G first final. 

[Webber 10,468]

Just watched Goody’s presser, and he was, as usual, superb. It’s obvious he was seething, but addressed the questions about the umpiring with enormous calm. He left no doubt however (with a pause and a smile) that he was angry about it. His restraint is remarkably evolved. 

Which gets to the truly concerning thing. It is simply ludicrous that he (or anybody within the AFL’s employ) cannot pass judgement or even have an opinion about the shambles that is the adjudication of our great game without being sanctioned or punished by the AFL. How will the umpiring ever improve if it can’t be criticised by those closest to the game, those with the most at stake? I’ve said it before (frankly bore myself to tears with the repetition), but the damage bad umpiring does to this game is embarrassing. That the AFL have an autocratic refusal to even have the issue raised from within is shameful. 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

What can you do with a fwd problem like ours?

How many teams have their FOUR best options injured and out of form ?

 

Petty

Tmac

Bbb

Fritta.

We have done well all things considered.

[Webber 10,468]

2 minutes ago, Webber said:

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Webber

[dazzledavey36 54,936]

10 minutes ago, SPC said:

Ladies and gentlemen.. after some soul searching last night, I am far more positive about things today. I agree with Goody, we are in good shape. 
Last night for the most part we were average and should have snatched that. We just need to figure out that forwardline puzzle and we will with it! Need a Schache or TMAC to put in a solid block and put their hand up for the 2nd key post. Fritta and Joel Smith will be a handful as 3rd and 4th talls.

Let’s move on from last night, focus on the potential for growth we still have!

Finish 4th and we will beat the pies at the G first final. 

Well said mate.

Carlton dominated us majority of the night and yet we lost by only 4 points. Maybe I'm the only one who sees a positive in this?

Get those selections right and go back to the system that has worked for us in the previous 5 weeks and we can absolutely go deep in September. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by dazzledavey36

[leave it to deever 17,511]

6 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

If the goal ump is uncertain but the ARC can't decide either way then why have a review system at all??

The ump should just be honest and say "i didn't have a clear view of the ball/contest to see exactly what happened... it may or may not have been a goal but i need to go to the Arc to determine the result here".

The goal umps are effectively making a call even though they're still unsure.  Almost as if they feel they'll look foolish if they don't call it one way or the other when the truth is sometimes humans just can't make a correct call at all.

The real problem is there is insufficient technology to make definitive calls most of the time.

It's footage from the broadcast and that's all. That's hardly state of the art .

I agree about umpires being unsure but without any call what can you do?