PREGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[fr_ap 2,429]

10 minutes ago, layzie said:

The thing that really bothers me about Schache is his inability to hold his ground and his position. It's a little thing but so underrated when someone is playing key forward. Petty, JVR, even Brown will be in good positions in a contest most of the time and it takes a lot to physically move them from it. Not saying they win the ball every time but they are where you'd expect them in a marking contest. Schache on the other hand doesn't stand up in a marking contest nearly often enough and ends up half a metre away from the spot you'd like him far too often. Whether it's from being bodied off it, overunning it, getting caught behind, he's usually 'off' the contest. The circle area of his positioning is just too large compared to others.

I'm sure his value is more once the ball is in his hands but we've got Melksham and hopefully Fritta soon for that. We need someone to crash the pack, get the ball to ground and compete in the air every time. 

Not sure its a little thing and not sure its underrated. It's literally what's held Schache and Weideman back. They don't have an innate understanding of body contact - they don't seek it out, don't understand the push & pull. You can't really develop it either. Hogan had it from day 1 and it allowed him to kick goals immediately on AFL quality defenders. It's the #1 thing I look for in a key forward from day dot, whether they're kicking goals or not. 

Brown, for all his foibles, actually does have some understanding - I think his mind gets it - but he doesn't have the physical strength or centre of gravity to use it effectively. It's why so many defenders make great forwards, because as a defender if you dont seek or understand body contact, you may as well play a different sport...

[Supreme_Demon 3,246]

59 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

IN: Clarry, Neitz

OUT: Harmes, Petty

Hahahahahaha! The perfect inclusion! 😁

David Neitz would DESTROY a team if he was still playing.

 

Big Neita is one of my favourite Demon players ever!

 

 

[Adam The God 29,328]

I reckon Harmes will keep his spot and JJ will make way for Clarry, but I've been wrong before.

[monoccular 17,314]

17 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I’d have Fritsch as a finals inclusion. 

No timeline on Frittaty?

17 hours ago, praha said:

Petty is averaging less than a goal a game and has already missed 6 games this year. It's a big loss but we can recover. 

Praha - averages are meaningless when he played some games as a defender.   The past two weeks he averaged 4. 

16 hours ago, dees189227 said:

Gee the Carlton fans are going to be out next week. It should be a good crowd 

Big but not necessarily good. 

16 hours ago, DeelightfulPlay said:

@Jaded No More surprisingly cannot see Petty! But also they're lining up for the flight behind where I am standing so that might explain it

Terrible photo incoming when I get my internet to work

Edit: Grundy is sitting with a North player and there are a few trainers kicking around.  Spargo also chatting with a friend rather than lining up 

“Spargo also chatting with a friend rather than lining up”

This is how rumours start. Clearly he has already signed up for the new Tasnaniac team. 

[DeelightfulPlay 2,503]

18 minutes ago, monoccular said:

“Spargo also chatting with a friend rather than lining up”

This is how rumours start. Clearly he has already signed up for the new Tasnaniac team. 

Mate, he was just chatting with a friend.  Hardly anything sinister!  Plus it turns out most of the team lined up like... 25 mins early (esp since the flight had a minor delay).  It's not rumour mongering except for you reading into it.  I can't even tell you the name of the Roo's player or whether he has any connection to Tassie

[dazzledavey36 52,728]

4 minutes ago, DeelightfulPlay said:

Mate, he was just chatting with a friend.  Hardly anything sinister!  Plus it turns out most of the team lined up like... 25 mins early (esp since the flight had a minor delay).  It's not rumour mongering except for you reading into it.  I can't even tell you the name of the Roo's player or whether he has any connection to Tassie

Think there was a hint of sarcasm in @monoccular post.

[DeelightfulPlay 2,503]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Think there was a hint of sarcasm in @monoccular post.

Oops, sorry @monoccular!  Been a bit of a morning at work and that likely coloured my perception towards offence rather than laughter

[SFebes 4,860]

I haven't seen the game v Roos yet however with Petty out, the common sense thing that comes to mind with Oliver back is Petracca to spend all of his time forward to cover until Fritsch/Petty come back. He's strong in the contest, good overhead and will hit the scoreboard.

I don't see the point of changing too much, ie: Smith, Brown, Schache, Grundy.

No need to panic, we won without Petty this year.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Brown, for all his foibles, actually does have some understanding - I think his mind gets it - but he doesn't have the physical strength or centre of gravity to use it effectively. It's why so many defenders make great forwards, because as a defender if you dont seek or understand body contact, you may as well play a different sport...

Who's on your list? I've got Neitz and...maybe SOS, even though it was only on occasions. (SOS still kicked over 200 goals, though. Good effort for a full back).

Edited August 7, 2023 by La Dee-vina Comedia

[Tracca 781]

2 hours ago, Travy14 said:

Smith isn't fantastic.  He had 7 disposals and 2 turnovers, and he jumps at everything and leaves his man.  He is very handy as sub but just lacks the concentration for full games.  

His opponent did nothing. Quite literally nothing. I'd say he did very well.

 

[Jaded No More 67,627]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

JVR looked exhausted.

He rucked more than normal yesterday against 2 proper ruckman because we wanted to give Maxy a rest.

I think Grundy is a big chance this week to replace Petty, which will allow us to play JVR as a permanent forward and not ruck.

Smith may return to the sub role, with Tomlinson or Hibbo replacing him, so if Grundy is giving us donuts up forward we can sub him off for Smith. 

[leave it to deever 17,446]

Carlton storming home with seven wins on the trot. It's a good effort. Despite Petty going down I think we will still win. It's back at the Mcg which is good news for us. Hopefully Oliver will return and this will bolster morale. How much of an influence he has will be very interesting after such a long absence but he is a superstar so there's that.  I think Goody will give Grundy a shot up forward although I'm not sure he's the man for the job. It's more a case of last man standing at this point in time.  Milk was quiet against North, so I'm hoping he bounces back big time. I'm glad that Our smalls have hit some great form of late. Grundy isn't a good mark like Petty but he's tall enough to make a good contest so Kozzie and co can do their thing. It will be a tough game and we certainly can't come out again like we did against North. It's a toss up between  Harmes or JJ for Oliver. Should be a ripper. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by leave it to deever

[WERRIDEE 5,346]

11 hours ago, David-Demon said:

So I take it we are resting Gawny and Viney next week are we ?

Yes I forgot the followers Gawn, Brayshaw, Viney

[layzie 32,786]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Not sure its a little thing and not sure its underrated. It's literally what's held Schache and Weideman back. They don't have an innate understanding of body contact - they don't seek it out, don't understand the push & pull. You can't really develop it either. Hogan had it from day 1 and it allowed him to kick goals immediately on AFL quality defenders. It's the #1 thing I look for in a key forward from day dot, whether they're kicking goals or not. 

Brown, for all his foibles, actually does have some understanding - I think his mind gets it - but he doesn't have the physical strength or centre of gravity to use it effectively. It's why so many defenders make great forwards, because as a defender if you dont seek or understand body contact, you may as well play a different sport...

Appreciate your view and absolutely agree but if it wasn't an underrated aspect then you wouldn't see the likes of Schache, Weideman and Watts taken so high in drafts.

This in built nature to know exactly how you position yourself as a forward is definitely what I look for as well and then using your movement to best advantage, the push and pull is a great way to put it. You don't have to be a G-train or Travis Cloke but you have to be able to hold ground. The guys who don't have it look like they are running around in circles. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,351]

9 minutes ago, layzie said:

Appreciate your view and absolutely agree but if it wasn't an underrated aspect then you wouldn't see the likes of Schache, Weideman and Watts taken so high in drafts.

At junior level these guys star because there are few opponents who have the strength or ability to go one on one with them. They literally have the ball on a string. Different at AFL level.

My guess is that midfielders give a little more indication of future ability simply because of midfield congestion.

Seeing some potential draft picks at VFL level may change the dynamics. Personally I'd like to see the draft age moved to 20 and meanwhile they play in the VFL or similar

[jumbo returns 6,703]

So......is Cee Oliver DEFINITELY playing?

[whatwhat say what 22,089]

5 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

So......is Cee Oliver DEFINITELY playing?

barring anything unforseen at training... YES

[Jaded No More 67,627]

7 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

So......is Cee Oliver DEFINITELY playing?

Goodwin was confident. 

Which means absolutely nothing.

But apparently yes.

 

Oliver getting around this week...

[layzie 32,786]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

He rucked more than normal yesterday against 2 proper ruckman because we wanted to give Maxy a rest.

I think Grundy is a big chance this week to replace Petty, which will allow us to play JVR as a permanent forward and not ruck.

Smith may return to the sub role, with Tomlinson or Hibbo replacing him, so if Grundy is giving us donuts up forward we can sub him off for Smith. 

21% centre bounces attendance for JVR, easily his most since Grundy went out.

I think he's back in too, now to make it work.

[Travy14 1,813]

1 hour ago, Tracca said:

His opponent did nothing. Quite literally nothing. I'd say he did very well.

 

Thats his only role he can play though.  Was fine against NM.  But is different if it's a Gunston, Mihochek, Rohan or one of these quality tall/mid tall options.

He has played this role before and failed, he has been good when coming on with fresh legs and run on top of his opponent.

If he had Salem's footy IQ he would be absolutely amazing with his athletic abilities 

[Tracca 781]

15 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

Thats his only role he can play though.  Was fine against NM.  But is different if it's a Gunston, Mihochek, Rohan or one of these quality tall/mid tall options.

He has played this role before and failed, he has been good when coming on with fresh legs and run on top of his opponent.

If he had Salem's footy IQ he would be absolutely amazing with his athletic abilities 

He hasnt played a full game in the backline all year, and has been training as a forward for the past 18 months, he did everything expected of him imo.

 

I would rather him up forward anyway and tomlinson back

[Jaded No More 67,627]

The best defences are built on predictability. Smith has a bit of Frostball about him. He isn't predictable enough to the other defenders, and we don't have the luxury of time to get him settled down there. He doesn't know when to stay back and when to run off, and he isn't reliable enough to allow May and Lever to peel off and help one another.

Tomlinson is slow but he's predictable. I think we are playing May higher up, because the plan is to have him replace Petty at CHB and have Tomlinson and/or Hibbo play closer to the goal line, where you need a 'goal keeper' style sweeper who can peel off and defend. Hibbo does this brilliantly well at ground level and in the air, but is obviously limited by height. 

Smith's attributes and unpredictability are better suited to playing as a forward IMO.

With Clarry back *touch wood*, we will now have the option of dropping out a mid from the rotation, as we have been carrying an extra mid to cover his enormous loss. This will allow us to play a 7th defender, which could well be Hibbo, and free up Salem/Bowey/Rivers to play a more attacking role off half back. 

Alternatively we may choose to play an extra small forward to up the forward pressure and play a stronger front half game. 

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,499]

I think it’s Gawndy time, didn’t like it earlier in the year as we had 2 talls plus a ruck and it was getting congested. Hopefully with just JVR and a ruck we can create enough space for Trac, Melksham and the rest to get on leads. Key will be having the resting ruck on the move rather than just parking 25m out calling for the ball.

Otherwise I think Smith goes back to sub, just don’t think he’s got 4 quarters of concentration in him (5 of his 7 touches came in Q2 this week, 0 in Q3). Hibberd into the 22.

Clarry hopefully locked in and not further delayed, out goes Harmes or JJ. I’d prefer Harmes out, looks like it’s gone past him. We’ll always have that pass to Fritta in the GF.. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Fromgotowoewodin

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

10 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

The best defences are built on predictability. Smith has a bit of Frostball about him. He isn't predictable enough to the other defenders, and we don't have the luxury of time to get him settled down there. He doesn't know when to stay back and when to run off, and he isn't reliable enough to allow May and Lever to peel off and help one another.

Tomlinson is slow but he's predictable. I think we are playing May higher up, because the plan is to have him replace Petty at CHB and have Tomlinson and/or Hibbo play closer to the goal line, where you need a 'goal keeper' style sweeper who can peel off and defend. Hibbo does this brilliantly well at ground level and in the air, but is obviously limited by height. 

Smith's attributes and unpredictability are better suited to playing as a forward IMO.

With Clarry back *touch wood*, we will now have the option of dropping out a mid from the rotation, as we have been carrying an extra mid to cover his enormous loss. This will allow us to play a 7th defender, which could well be Hibbo, and free up Salem/Bowey/Rivers to play a more attacking role off half back. 

Alternatively we may choose to play an extra small forward to up the forward pressure and play a stronger front half game. 

Didn't we play 7 defenders? May, Lever, Smith as the "talls" and McVee, Bowey, Salem and Rivers as the "smalls". When Petty came off, Smith was moved forward and Hibberd slotted into defence.   

[Travy14 1,813]

23 minutes ago, Tracca said:

He hasnt played a full game in the backline all year, and has been training as a forward for the past 18 months, he did everything expected of him imo.

 

I would rather him up forward anyway and tomlinson back

He is worse as a fwd.