POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Geelong

[dazzledavey36 55,302]

5 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

How patronising you are. You’re implying I have no idea about loading. I’ve read pretty much everything here about the loading theory (or as you childishly call it, ‘fantasy’) but why the hell would I even entertain the thought of expounding on such to any degree when I witness how frustrating it is for the likes of Binman and others who are constantly coming up against stubborn, unreasonable people whose minds are well and truly made up? I’m not a masochist.  (Ironically it’s these selfsame ppl who usually raise the topic, after a loss of course.)

I make no secret of the fact that I dislike you but that has nothing to do with my belief in the loading theory. That’s your caper, ie: you applaud or like certain posts not necessarily because you agree with them but because they disagree with the opinion of someone you don’t like. I’m not alone in seeing this. I received a surprising number of PMs the other night each sharing the same sentiment.

Maybe you should try on a pair of red and blue glasses. See how you go. You’ll likely enjoy and appreciate our team as you (even occasionally) should. 

That's all I needed to know.

Cheers.

5 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

First of all this is the funniest way to make an argument against something you don’t believe in. Argue that we aren’t doing it, but that other teams are???

But I’ll humour your odd assumption by saying that you are completely correct. The teams mentioned ARE all in different heavy training, BUT you have to take the contexts of their wins into consideration.

Collingwood played against another side off the bye who also are training to be playing in September. Adelaide is Burgess and Burgess is a huge advocate for loading. The effects possibly nullified each other - and it was as close to a draw as you can get.

Geelong played last week so would have had a lighter running load this week, and a crucially important week of match conditioning. But don’t take my word for it….

Not one side has won coming off the bye playing a side that played the week before. Not one. The 16th side beat the 3rd side. The 9th side beat the 4th side. The 11th side beat the 6th. I could go on and on across literally every game. All 8 of them.

Training loads have a massive impact on output and performance. If you don’t want to see that then there’s not much point talking about it.

First of all, my argument isn't about that loading doesn't exist because I know it does. And maybe I need to clarify that a bit more clearer. 

My argument is that we have a loss against Geelong and all of a sudden excuses come out straight away that it's all purely due to loading. And let's not pretend we've been here before last year.

The argument was raised that the wins were going to come in the back half off of last year and set us up cherry ripe for September. 

Those wins didn't exactly come. We had a poor 2nd half of the year and if you go back to our losses last year there was a concerning trend of 2nd half fade outs, especially last quarters. Come September,  nothing changed. W

See I didn't blame that on loading or anything even though it was a concerning trend in our game. I still maintain Goodwin was incredibly stubborn on a number of factors including tinkering our game plan, forward connection and his inability to make team changes when it was evident certain same players were playing injured or badly out of form.

This is why this is more my biggest concern then loading because alot of the bad habits the coaching department had last year are starting to creep back in again as per the points i raised above.

Also no one has even mentioned or factored in that it was a wet weathered game which has been one our biggest weakness so far this year.

Geelong, Port Adelaide and Essendon are games in the wet where we've failed to adapt to conditions and we've looked generally fatigued throughout those games it takes away our game and we then don't have a plan B to adapt too.

In the games previous to Geelong we've ran out games well, but just haven't executed the basics right. If we were in a huge loading phase in that period then again, I would argue that it actually hasn't hindered our performance because we've ran those games out well.

Just on the Adelaide Collingwood game. I thought Adelaide looked a team full of running and played with high energy and excitement. Certainly did not play like a team that was going through a Burgess style heavy loading program as you pointed out.. I would factor that they were absolutely mauled by the pathetic umpiring that cost them in the last quarter.  They looked far more fresher then Collingwood. 

Collingwood certainly the team that looked like they were feeling the effects of having a week off, but credit to them they rose in the last quarter and piled on a few goals to eventually win. But their form leading into the bye wasn't exactly top seed material. 

[Lucifers Hero 40,301]

5 hours ago, binman said:

I accept your apology dazzler. Let's move on

But not before i break my own ban on this topic only hours after making it!

A central argument i am making is that fatigue from loading is a key factor to consider when assessing any game of footy at this time of year.

In terms of our games, i think it is the biggest factor in our middling form since, and inclusive of, the Freo game. And that includes the Pies game (i think both teams were impacted by fatigue in that game - the pies more than us actually, which is one reason I'm not reading too much into that win).

But of course, it is far from the only factor. And i fully concede that i might be wrong and that is not the biggest factor. But it is 100% a factor - the only real debate is how big a factor.

I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but you make some really good points about the issues that concern you -  eg forward connection, team selection, game plan and form of some players.

Where we diverge is my belief those issues all intersect with fatigue and the impact of a heavy block of mid season training.

And so, i don't agree the issues you highlight have nothing to do with loading

Take selection. You suggested the team selection for this game had 'nothing to do with loading'. But i don't think that is true. Goody said at the beginning of the year he would use the sub as a tactical option OR related to load management.

My assumption the reason Spargo was selected as a sub this week was for load management reasons (interestingly he was gassed, and subbed off last week for Jordon and they reversed roles this week with Jordon coming of for Spargo. Coincidence? Unlikely). So, if I'm correct, it very much has something to do with loading.

Perhaps as a young player, who is absolutely in our best 22, Bowey really struggled with the big block of training and because the goal is for him to be cherry ripe come finals they decided the best course of action was to play him in the lower intensity VFL game. In this scenario, that would be a decision very much informed by loading.

Similarly, a factor in the the form slump you mention some players are in might be fatigue. I guess it depends on how long you think Pickett, Langdon, Gawn, Spargo, Chandler, ANB, and May have been in a form slump, but if you mean the last 3-4 weeks, well, that coincides with the loading phase. So it is reasonable to at least consider that as a causal factor - particularly for young players like Koz and Chandler. So again, form of players DOES have something to do with loading (in this period).

I 100% agree the way we played against the Dogs and Sydney is how we want to play and that involves playing a fast attacking brand and sling shotting off half back to generate scoring pressure. That will be the game plan we will take into the finals. But ONLY if we are fit enough to execute that game plan - from the start of the game to the last minute. 

And the only way they can be confident of being fit enough to execute that game plan come finals is to do the loading now (which is the point Scott was making last year about being prepared to miss the 8 because they are going hard to increase their chances of winning the flag) - but as we saw last year, that is still no guarantee of course that,  for any number of reasons (eg injury) we will be fit enough when the whips are cracking.

You are right to say we've reverted back to the slow ball movement style (but only in the last 3-4 weeks) which gets picked apart. The question is why?

The dogs was round one and the swans round three. At no point in the rest of this season will we be fitter and stronger than we were in those two games. Which is critical context because the game plan we saw in those matches involves a crazy level of all team high speed running. If we are not close to optimal fitness (like right now), we cant execute that game plan properly. The Pies method is even more reliant on running power. 

The all team high speed running and spread required for our preferred game plan is impossible to propery implement when the team is collectively fatigued. Which i think is why Goody has really emphasized defence in the last few weeks. One, to mitigate the impact of fatigue (less ballistic footy is less aerobically taxing). And two, we will struggle to win if we stick with our preferred game plan but don't have the run in the legs to implement it properly (ironically goody was criticised in 2021 and 2022 on DL for being too rigid with the game plan and not trying new things).

So, the game plan is very much is related to loading - both in the sense of the loading giving them a shot at being fit enough come finals and as it relates to the impact of the fatigue on our ability to execute/implement our preferred method.  

The point i'm driving at is, of course loading is not an excuse or the only factor for our performance in our recent matches - but IT IS an important factor to consider, precisely BECAUSE it intersects with, and impacts, all of the many other factors and variables at play.  

It is that intersection that interests me. I don't feel i can understand the game without considering these intersections.

As a thought experiment, try to explain why all teams have lost after the bye thus far WITHOUT factoring in fatigue (surely 10 teams can't all find it hard to mentally get going and switch on after a bye - which is the only explanation i have heard from the footy media so far).

I take your point about the Pies kicking five two in the last today. I'm not sure if you watched the game, but they had no run. They were run off their feet in the third and looked nothing like they do at their rampaging best. But if you factor in fatigue then the assessment of the game changes.

The key factor in that game was BOTH teams were coming off their bye, and therefore a heavy training block. Both teams struggled in the last. So for the Pies to kick 5.2 in the last under fatigue is super impressive and I  mark their performance up for that. 

Outside say the four best kicks in each team, across the  board they have much better kicks than us, with superior technique. Good technique hold up better under pressure and fatigue than poor technique. Our poor technique is being exposed ATM. 

Saying loading is a factor in our current accuracy issues (or our turnover clangers - ugh) doesn't diminish the fact that our kicking IS an issue of concern. 

The Cats kicked 6.2 in the last quarter in wet and heavy conditions and ran all over the top of us - because they were clearly not feeling the effects of loading to the same degree as they were the previous week, when coming off their bye. In their Port game they completely ran out of gas in the last quarter. 

But the Cats v Dees was their second post bye match. And, in a mirror to their performance against Port, they ran over the top of us in the last - exactly like the Suns and Freo (who were both out on their feet last week in their post bye matches) did to the Hawks and bombers this round. 

Crikey, binman!!  What an ungodly hour to be up let alone be writing about loading!! 

Sincerely hope your thoughts are in a Word doc to simply 'copy/paste' relevant parts as needed for each post.  It does my head in to think you type each post aftresh!

I really admire your commitment to the cause.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[Kent 2,913]

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I think people want to find excuses for the sake of it.

It's like putting a band aid on a bigger wound.

There are more pressing concerns then then this loading myth which was put to bed the moment we lost our first final.

The believers were telling us all that we were in a huge loading phase this time last year and it would set us up well come September. How did that go?

The believers went MIA after our finals exit last year and couldn't even come up with an answer when they were questioned about it. 

And here we are again, Déjà vu.

Sane and thoughtfull DD as always  I want to be a loader but just cant see it as an excuse for poor play and coaching  I reckon it is BS

[chook fowler 19,519]

I’m not sure what the problem is, but I’m sure there is one - we can’t string wins together, can’t play out 4 quarters and can’t kick a decent score. Max, Kozzie, Spargo, ANB, Gus, Harmes and Langdon have all lost form. TMac andBBB are cooked. Viney and Rivers are the only improvers. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by chook fowler

[beelzebub 23,382]

11 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

If you think there isn't far more pressing concerns other then your 'loading' fantasy then you're delusional once again. Bit like last year.

The fact that you genuinely think that the cats the just clicked their fingers and realised that all those years it was all just due to loading is a [censored] take from your end. You don't even have the facts to even back this up. Cats have been loading year after year.

The fact is, the cats had a complete revamped of their whole footballer department at the end of 2021 after the loss in the preliminary and had a mini review at the end of the season.

Scott completely changed his whole coaching structure and brought in new Intel into the group which meant they had a complete revamp of their game plan.

They played a far more attacking style that was a complete opposite to what Scott had ran with previous years of the chip, slow and controlled ball movement.

Not only that, they rested players in the 2nd half of the year which had them absolutely cherry ripe for September. They had the luxury of doing as they played some lower end teams. Complete opposite to what we did last year when we sent Gawn and Lever up to Perth against West Coast with back and ankle issues when the opportunity was there to rest them.

So as I am pointing out, Geelong identified far bigger concerns that was holding them back instead of pin pointing loading as their main key target. I mean thanks for the laugh though.

In terms of more pressing concerns then 'loading'.

• Forward connection is one. Forwards starting behind defenders and not willing to lead at the ball carrier. We struggled to connect in the first quarter. This has zero to do with 'loading'. We're still fresh even in the first quarter. No player ever goes into a game feeling gassed from a main training session especially when recover now days is at an all time premium. Nothing to do with loading.

• Botched team selections. Playing a completely underdone Petty off 6 weeks with zero match condition over an in form and fit Tomlinson. Not only that, he started down back after Goodwin promised that he'd be spending most of the year up forward. Spargo as a sub was just bizarre. James Jordon who has zero influence over the game ahead of Jake Bowey who would have added cleanness and speed off half back. Again, nothing to do with loading.

• Form concerns of certain players. Pickett, Langdon, Gawn, Spargo, Chandler, ANB, May are all in a form slump and need to find ways to get themselves out of it because it's costing us. They all seem bereft of confidence and are simply struggling. When I see Kozzie picky try and toe poke a ball forward instead of bending down and picking up the footy then it's got absolutely nothing to do with loading, but more so on confidence.

• Game plan. We've reverted back to the slow ball movement style which simply gets picked apart, eerily similar to last year as well. I remember watching the Doggies and Sydney and thinking that this will be the game plan that'll win us the flag this year. We played a fast attacking brand that caught teams off side with the way we were able to sling shot off half back generate scoring pressure so quickly. It's why we were at one stage the highest scoring team in the competition. Nothing to do with loading, it's the tinkering of game plan that is evident.

 

Nailedit.

Puts much into perspective. 

It fairly places the responsibility back at those who are entrusted to run our efforts. I.e.. the Coaches and rest of the FD.

Thanks Dazzle.  Some sanity in all of this.

We either win or lose by design.

[layzie 33,987]

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Crikey, binman!!  What an ungodly hour to be up let alone be writing about loading!! 

Sincerely hope your thoughts are in a Word doc to simply 'copy/paste' relevant parts as needed for each post.  It does my head in to think you type each post aftresh!

I really admire your commitment to the cause.

It has to be, he's writing the thesis!

[Lucifers Hero 40,301]

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

It has to be, he's writing the thesis!

It does seem like a thesis sometimes...  

But hey, binman is quite passionate about it...just hope the info is electronically stored...

Edited June 25, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[layzie 33,987]

1 minute ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I hope so, layzie...not so much the thesis but having all the info electronically stored. 

Yes, or at least in a very good note taking app.

Would be good to see the thesis published and Binman receive King's Birthday honours though 🙂

[leave it to deever 17,517]

After all that, we played reasonably well. Our forward line clearly didn't function but our delivery into it was poor. With a non performing fwd line we still almost won. We will make top 4 with our  percentage and run home but I dare say we Must beat gws this week. Must! And for this reason I really wish despite all the good will, love and all, this game wasn't switched over a thousand ks away  There I've said it.

What's more important, the $ for sacrificing our home adv or maximizing our chances for another flag.

In the end, more flags equals more moola.

Edited June 25, 2023 by leave it to deever

[picket fence 17,433]

30 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

After all that, we played reasonably well. Our forward line clearly didn't function but our delivery into it was poor. With a non performing fwd line we still almost won. We will make top 4 with our  percentage and run home but I dare say we Must beat gws this week. Must! And for this reason I really wish despite all the good will, love and all, this game wasn't switched over a thousand ks away  There I've said it.

What's more important, the $ for sacrificing our home adv or maximizing our chances for another flag.

In the end, more flags equals more moola.

Sorry to disagree, I thought we were very ordinary. A repeat will see the Orange Tsunami run right over us this week and our season on the line!

[jnrmac 20,154]

Fatigue has nothing to do with kicking 2 goals 7 behinds in the second qtr. or 14g 33bh in the past two weeks. Has nothing to do with players being handball happy in the wet or playing behind your man or butchering kicks to our players advantage or stopping to wait while the oppo defence sets up their zone.. That is plain stupid brainless wet weather football.

Decision making is abysmal, fumbling is killing us and stagnant, slow predictable footy is what undid us last year. Quick kicks and leads aren't being honoured. Players stop leading when that happens. Its a cancer in a team and totally the opposite of how we played in pre-season and training where the emphasis is on fast movement, angled kicks to the corridor etc. Kicking for goal was above average in the early part of the year because thats what we were doing and taking goal kicks from a more central position.

We have now reverted to stop prop go down the line lick to the pocket. Its killing us.

Kozzie bar the opening game has been totally out of sorts as has Langdon. Something isn't right with Gawn. There are a number of others. Selection integrity has been compromised for guys like Jordan, Bowey, Thommo, Brown directly but it affects the whole team when there are 'favourites'.

This is not a team that is playing for each other. No one goes to Gawn's aide when he is targetted by Stanley, nor petracca when he was constantly being held by Atkins, nor Viney when he was down.

We go from one of our best games (v Collingwood) to one of our worst.

Something isn't right.

[jnrmac 20,154]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

After all that, we played reasonably well. Our forward line clearly didn't function but our delivery into it was poor. With a non performing fwd line we still almost won. We will make top 4 with our  percentage and run home but I dare say we Must beat gws this week. Must! And for this reason I really wish despite all the good will, love and all, this game wasn't switched over a thousand ks away  There I've said it.

What's more important, the $ for sacrificing our home adv or maximizing our chances for another flag.

In the end, more flags equals more moola.

That was the excuse last year. We led in every single game that we lost. All 8 of them. 'Oh we're doing a lot of things right' said Goodwin. Yep true. But our game plan was picked apart and its happening again.

 

[SFebes 4,884]

6 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Fatigue has nothing to do with kicking 2 goals 7 behinds in the second qtr. or 14g 33bh in the past two weeks. Has nothing to do with players being handball happy in the wet or playing behind your man or butchering kicks to our players advantage or stopping to wait while the oppo defence sets up their zone.. That is plain stupid brainless wet weather football.

Decision making is abysmal, fumbling is killing us and stagnant, slow predictable footy is what undid us last year. Quick kicks and leads aren't being honoured. Players stop leading when that happens. Its a cancer in a team and totally the opposite of how we played in pre-season and training where the emphasis is on fast movement, angled kicks to the corridor etc. Kicking for goal was above average in the early part of the year because thats what we were doing and taking goal kicks from a more central position.

We have now reverted to stop prop go down the line lick to the pocket. Its killing us.

Kozzie bar the opening game has been totally out of sorts as has Langdon. Something isn't right with Gawn. There are a number of others. Selection integrity has been compromised for guys like Jordan, Bowey, Thommo, Brown directly but it affects the whole team when there are 'favourites'.

This is not a team that is playing for each other. No one goes to Gawn's aide when he is targetted by Stanley, nor petracca when he was constantly being held by Atkins, nor Viney when he was down.

We go from one of our best games (v Collingwood) to one of our worst.

Something isn't right.

Well said, finally some common sense and telling it as it is. I'm starting to form the opinion that Kozzie is a very lazy footballer. And agree, something isn't right.

[beelzebub 23,382]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Nailedit.

Puts much into perspective. 

It fairly places the responsibility back at those who are entrusted to run our efforts. I.e.. the Coaches and rest of the FD.

Thanks Dazzle.  Some sanity in all of this.

We either win or lose by design.

@WalkingCivilWar  you agree/object ?

Where do you place blame and fault, especially our dysfunction in the fwd 50... actually dysfunction from kicking in invariably. 

I find it odd we played quite well, and differently in our preseason games..and v Pies..  all other games is some mess of predictability and hail Mary's into the 50. 

We have to be one of the easiest teams to coach against imho... its just not all teams have the list needed.  Those that do cut us open..some not enough qtrs...some can. 

Players dont invent their own game. Its instructed. They are fed a game plan. The overall idea is designed by the coach...that IS his job. He then commands his line coached to implement their aspects. Players then practice said game and play it to their best against the opposition. 

Often it's lamented ...the player positioned poorly or didn't do this...or that. The reality is 90% of the time they're doing exactly what they've been told. 

Yes, there is the aspect of players NOT doing as well as the intended idea . But itsvery easy to see our general style. We can see when player A or B either has a day out, or one he'd rather forget but they're only doing what theyre told.

That we can see difference at times is not some spontaneous mass"  pop up" performance  it's because the instruction has changed.

Im sure most of the players play thir hearts out. Im sure many are trying their best but are given a set-sheet which often extinguishes flair and regular footy nouse. 

Who do you( or anyone ) blame when the Box observes , acknowledges a problem then determines to do nothing ? ..  Butters being an example. On thurs no one sent to curb Rohan.

Who controls how we play if it isnt Goodwin ( and Co ) ?

I'm interested 

Cheers

 

[dazzledavey36 55,302]

Bravo post @jnrmac

[beelzebub 23,382]

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Fatigue has nothing to do with kicking 2 goals 7 behinds in the second qtr. or 14g 33bh in the past two weeks. Has nothing to do with players being handball happy in the wet or playing behind your man or butchering kicks to our players advantage or stopping to wait while the oppo defence sets up their zone.. That is plain stupid brainless wet weather football.

Decision making is abysmal, fumbling is killing us and stagnant, slow predictable footy is what undid us last year. Quick kicks and leads aren't being honoured. Players stop leading when that happens. Its a cancer in a team and totally the opposite of how we played in pre-season and training where the emphasis is on fast movement, angled kicks to the corridor etc. Kicking for goal was above average in the early part of the year because thats what we were doing and taking goal kicks from a more central position.

We have now reverted to stop prop go down 

This is not a team that is playing for each other. No one goes to Gawn's aide when he is targetted by Stanley, nor petracca when he was constantly being held by Atkins, nor Viney when he was down.

Among many fine points it's this I still have trouble understanding.

As you suggest...there's something NQR about much but especially this.

Footy if nothing else,  for mine, epitomises 'mateship' . You're cemented together against the common foe. It ought to be one for all and all for one...always.   and then there's us.  Tbh...its somewhat embarrassing,  and that's just as a member spectating. Can't imagine how you'd feel abandoned on the field. 

[leave it to deever 17,517]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Sorry to disagree, I thought we were very ordinary. A repeat will see the Orange Tsunami run right over us this week and our season on the line!

Given no Oliver and a completely under ready Petty, a dysfunctional forward line, we lost by 2 kicks at one of the grounds with the biggest home adv on the comp.

It wasn't a complete disaster. And if Anb had not fumbled we may have just snuck home.

Not saying there were a few players that put in shockers but we almost won.

 

[beelzebub 23,382]

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

After all that, we played reasonably well. Our forward line clearly didn't function but our delivery into it was poor. With a non performing fwd line we still almost won. We will make top 4 with our  percentage and run home but I dare say we Must beat gws this week. Must! And for this reason I really wish despite all the good will, love and all, this game wasn't switched over a thousand ks away  There I've said it.

What's more important, the $ for sacrificing our home adv or maximizing our chances for another flag.

In the end, more flags equals more moola.

Agree... should be playing at the G.

We had elements of good play , too few and far betwee. In many respects I feel the scoreboard possibly flattered.

We should have been all over this mob. They were particularly less a side with their outs...and then Cameron.  By all rights this game should have been put to bed , imho, at 3/4 time had we played the decent footy some imagine we were.  The game didn't strike me that way. It looked more like a figurative arm wrestle with two teams trying to find the others Achilles Heel.  And then THEY did...and ran away with it. Geelong , undermanned, pushed us over and ran off.

We all despise Scott I'm sure... but he's no slouch at this game. 

[demosaw 1,059]

17 hours ago, Roost it far said:

I’m a loader

[MrFreeze 1,995]

Occam's razor is a nice tool to use here. Loading, team selection, game plan are all huge factors for results but to put it simply, the overall record of teams coming off byes is 2-10. The winning teams being the Saints and Pies, but they went up against other teams coming off byes as well.

The doom saying, mud slinging and hair pulling is very typical after a loss here but everyone should take a deep breath and chill.  

Edited June 26, 2023 by MrFreeze

[beelzebub 23,382]

2 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Occam's razor is a nice tool to use here. Loading, team selection, game plan are all huge factors for results but to put it simply, the overall record of teams coming off byes is 2-10. The winning teams being the Saints and Pies, but they went up against other teams coming off byes as well.

The doom saying, mud slinging and hair pulling is very typical after a loss here but everyone should take a deep breath and chill.  

According to Max there was no bye....

Did we, didn't we 🤔🤔🤔🤷

[rpfc 28,721]

15 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Why can’t we have issues AND loading be ONE of those issues?

Will we improve once we taper off? Probably. Will we become a flawless team? Absolutely not. 

There are many issues going on with the side at the moment. Some easier to solve than others. Some that can be explained by a heavier block of loading, and some that cannot. 

Our limp performance against Freo and the last quarter against Geelong/Pies are maybe a loading issue. Our lack of reliable contested marking forward target, is not. 
Poor skill execution is maybe a loading fatigue issue. Overusing the footy by hand in heavy rain is not, it’s just dumb football. 

Can we still win the flag this year? Absolutely. This is a season of ordinary top sides and equally competitive middle of the road sides. If you make the 8 you can probably win it if you get some good luck. 
Do we need to improve our ball use/goal kicking/forward connection and settle on a winning structure in order to win it? Absolutely. 

As Griffith intimated in the chat with Andy, Binman and George - they will make sure the 3 ten day breaks are used as an opportunity to get KMs in the legs - but can we put this red herring back in the lake for a second?

We lost on Thursday because we didn’t capitalise when we dominated and then got done on the break as we went searching for goals and overcommitted.

So yeah, what Jaded said.

[Roost it far 8,564]

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

That's all I needed to know.

Cheers.

First of all, my argument isn't about that loading doesn't exist because I know it does. And maybe I need to clarify that a bit more clearer. 

My argument is that we have a loss against Geelong and all of a sudden excuses come out straight away that it's all purely due to loading. And let's not pretend we've been here before last year.

The argument was raised that the wins were going to come in the back half off of last year and set us up cherry ripe for September. 

Those wins didn't exactly come. We had a poor 2nd half of the year and if you go back to our losses last year there was a concerning trend of 2nd half fade outs, especially last quarters. Come September,  nothing changed. W

See I didn't blame that on loading or anything even though it was a concerning trend in our game. I still maintain Goodwin was incredibly stubborn on a number of factors including tinkering our game plan, forward connection and his inability to make team changes when it was evident certain same players were playing injured or badly out of form.

This is why this is more my biggest concern then loading because alot of the bad habits the coaching department had last year are starting to creep back in again as per the points i raised above.

Also no one has even mentioned or factored in that it was a wet weathered game which has been one our biggest weakness so far this year.

Geelong, Port Adelaide and Essendon are games in the wet where we've failed to adapt to conditions and we've looked generally fatigued throughout those games it takes away our game and we then don't have a plan B to adapt too.

In the games previous to Geelong we've ran out games well, but just haven't executed the basics right. If we were in a huge loading phase in that period then again, I would argue that it actually hasn't hindered our performance because we've ran those games out well.

Just on the Adelaide Collingwood game. I thought Adelaide looked a team full of running and played with high energy and excitement. Certainly did not play like a team that was going through a Burgess style heavy loading program as you pointed out.. I would factor that they were absolutely mauled by the pathetic umpiring that cost them in the last quarter.  They looked far more fresher then Collingwood. 

Collingwood certainly the team that looked like they were feeling the effects of having a week off, but credit to them they rose in the last quarter and piled on a few goals to eventually win. But their form leading into the bye wasn't exactly top seed material. 

Another thing that I think needs to be added to the discussion is the evolution of a game plan throughout the year. We started off on a more attacking front and posted big scores with lots of wave running. Do that for a year and you'll be gassed come September. We've definitely become more defensive over the last month. Is that to do with managing loads during our loading phase and also fine tuning our defensive structures?  I'm hoping that as we lead into finals we'll find the balance between attack and defence and that will also have to do with having a fit best 16 available. Having Petty out has certainly hindered us and I really hope he can find some form as a forward. I'd like to see Gawn, Viney, Grundy and perhaps May have a rest prior to the finals.

[Adam The God 30,403]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

We have now reverted to stop prop go down the line lick to the pocket. Its killing us.

And why do you think that might be? Nothing to do with fatigue? 

[Demonland 73,051]