POSTGAME: Rd 07 vs North Melbourne

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

Spargo will not be at Casey next week

This is a general comment - - and im not having a go at you - but i contiued to be amazed that so many posters don't seem to get how important spargo, and Nibbler for that matter, is to our team and our system, as evidenced by the regular suggestion he is going to be, or should be, dropped.

Which is flat out bizzare, because as is the case with Nibbler such calls never get answered.

I mean, surely the fact there is NO evidence his place as a regular best 22 is under threat would give people pause before suggesting Spargo is in the gun.

Spargs played EVERY game in 2022 and in 2021, a premiership year.

Played every game this year too until injured. 

There is zero chance he is not selected in the ones next week if fit. 

And by the by, he plays diffenbt roleto Chandler so it's not one or the other. 

 

I am definitely no detractor of Spargo, I think he brings a lot to the team. But who in that forward line are you dropping to replace with Spargo and make the team better?

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,862]

2 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

For mine, the biggest negative about last night was the bazillion times I heard someone whinge about how “we should’ve beaten them by 100 points.” These are probs the same people who were going into it saying “I just hope we win.” 

Nah @WalkingCivilWar . . . I wasn't happy with a 15 goal win. And a few other things while I'm at it . . .

1. Who's responsible for not resting May, Viney, Max, Chandla, Trackta, Langers, Lever, Hibba and Schache last night - cos they are clearly all gassed?
2. Why arn't Footscray and Colonwood pay'in more than 750K a year towards Lauchie and Brodie's costs?
3. And who the hell at Melbourne didn't draft Larkey in 2016 when he eventually went at pick 73?

Pathetic the lot of them.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo

[Macca 17,032]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Pretty sure I was almost immediately on board with T Mc as a forward in 17 and 18. Was more than happy trading Hogan because Tom was an excellent CHF for a while there. Not a fan of anything he’s done since outside a brief patch of form to start 2021.

Lewis, best thing he did was retire. Set our standards of accountability, attack on the contest and leadership back 3 years.

I’m aware of Gus’ role and I’ve said he’s a very decent interceptor. But he’s not a good back flanker and I’ve said Lever and Gus were playing the same role last year for disastrous results. Interestingly they’ve made Lever the second tall and used Hibbo to recalibrate the skill, run/carry and defensive manning balance down back. 

I just don’t value playing spare across half back unless you’re winning a lot of intercepts (peak Lever) against quality opposition and/or using the ball with speed and precision. And I think it’s a role that requires leg speed and change of direction to drive up at the contest too, rather than always being over the back.

No you were wrong on Lewis. Hawks loss was our gain

Experience, know-how & showing the way is often not seen by many.  It's not all about the stats.  We needed him right to the end

Look at the Hawks now.  No real experience to show the way and they are doing a 'Melbourne' circa '07 - '13

One of the first things Roos did when he got here was bring in some experience.  Quite a bit of it actually.  And Lewis was part of that experience

The Hawks will struggle for years in my view.  Another insane, over-the-top youth policy.  I would have thought that Mitchell might have known differently

[adonski 12,415]

38 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Played half back flank in a 100 point win against the worst collection of forward flankers you’ll ever see. You’d get 30 touches just for turning up. Probably shook hands with Turner and Tucker at the start of the game and sat back and waited for them to kick it to him.

3 score involvements, 4 pressure acts and 320m gained from 14 kicks. Not a high intensity or damaging performance.

That said, he won his share of excellent contests and used the ball well, if most safely, just as he did last week when I gave him praise for a good game against a pretty decent side.

But his challenge will come when he’s matched up against speedy or strong half forwards that good sides have.

I’m still predicting he’ll move back to the wing if Salem can get up and going because there’s a wing spot that’s looking more open by the week. 

[censored] I'd love to see what you see DS

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

15 minutes ago, binman said:

I mean, surely the fact there is NO evidence his place as a regular best 22 is under threat would give people pause before suggesting Spargo is in the gun.

Spargs played EVERY game in 2022 and in 2021, a premiership year.

Played every game this year too until injured. 

There is zero chance he is not selected in the ones next week if fit. 

I’m a big Spargo fan but are we sure it’s zero? Not even 10%?

To me it’s very simple, JJ or Spargo, and whilst overwhelmingly the evidence is for Spargo we get a 3rd winger, 5th on baller and a big bodied hard working flanker with JJ.

Chandler and Pickett get to stay closer to goal. Tracc plays forward more. Hunter and Langdon get more rest. We get more prime beef around the footy.

Spargo is super valuable for his inside 50’s and he’s a major zone organiser and generally just super switched on with positioning. He’ll find his way back to the 22 quickly, but a week at Casey could sharpen him up coming back from injury. I wouldn’t be against it. Has to be considered.

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

And I agree that the team managed their health and the result of the game beautifully off a 5 day break, but it’s also fair for the posters lamenting we didn’t get a 100 point win when the replay commentary highlighted we have only had 2 100+ wins in the last 29 years, and we were in the position to make it three.

[old55 23,687]

2 hours ago, kev martin said:

I was barracking for North at various times during the game. I like interesting, competitive footy. The North supporters, barely anything from them, resignation only.

They just couldn't get any rhythm and when they scored we replied, and held the momentum from them.

They did slow our scoring a few times but the dam kept breaking.

Not me, no way. I vividly remember 17 consecutive defeats to this mob (pun intended) Ibetween 2007-17 including by 122pts at Docklands in 2013. We couldn't have beaten them by enough last night.  I was very happy with our 90pt margin off a 5 day break.

I'll just add that we're playing the MCG better this season.

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,445]

2 hours ago, kev martin said:

I thought the Roos banner, something about 5 interstate games, was a bit defeatist. The players look at that, feel tired, and have an excuse. They need motivational, emotional messages.

Back in the halcyon days of cheer squads in the 1980's I made a particular point of modelling our look on North Melbourne's. They were still playing at Arden Street in the first half of that decade and were sponsored by Budget, the rental car company owned by their chairman Bob Ansett. All of their flags had the Budget logo, white on blue or vice versa sans one corporate orange one in the centre of them all and they along with their floggers (at least twenty of them) looked magnificent. The white lettering on their run throughs, drawn and cut from cardboard stencils were millimetre perfect and centred perfectly on the blue crepe paper backing. They didn't have the benefit of drafting in professional artists to draw the designs on their finals run throughs like Hawthorn did but were still always perfect. Looking at last night's creation by their descendants made me feel sad. It was more akin to what the likes of Geelong, Footscray and Sydney used to always (and still do) serve up. 

[old55 23,687]

1 hour ago, FlashInThePan said:

This is going to be a hard time for some people. We are in process of evolving, from very good to great. There are going to be really quite good players who get pushed out and this needs to happen if we are to get to that next level.

Spargo is a very good player, no question, he is smart and clean with the ball. Admittedly, with a smaller body of work, Chandler is next level, he is all that and he also has a higher impact on the scoreboard and the game in general. Unfortunately for Spargo, he’s not competing with JJ for a spot. His exposed form as wing rotation rule him out of that. He’s competing with Chandler and Kozzie.

 Like many of you, I love all our players that played a part in getting us that flag but the harsh reality of elite sport is that you are either improving or you are getting overtaken.

Keen for you to explain how Kossie, Chandler and Spargo all played together this year when JJ was sub.

[Macca 17,032]

And @DeeSpencer

You've got to own your words ... half way through the first quarter against the Eagles you wanted Brayshaw subbed off

As it turned out he wasn't needed much as we swamped the Eagles.  No errors for Gus, no clangers and 17 possessions in a game where he was hardly called upon

And you wanted him subbed off halfway through the first quarter?  Why?

Edited April 30, 2023 by Macca

[BDA 22,868]

15 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Lewis, best thing he did was retire. Set our standards of accountability, attack on the contest and leadership back 3 years.

More nonsense from you today. The bloke has been retired for 4 seasons and you're still having a pop.

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

After starting the night on a triple 58% Whisky and moving onto (and through)  the bottle of Red, I thought last night was great. This morning… less so. 

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

One of the first things Roos did when he got here was bring in some experience.  Quite a bit of it actually.  And Lewis was part of that experience

Cross (great to see him running for the Roos last night), Vince, Dommy Tyson and others Roosy got just about spot on. Missed on Lumumba. Lewis was a Goodwin decision and Goody was far too enamoured with the Hawks resume and not the player he was by 2016.

He thought Lewis was going to show Oliver, Petracca and so on the ropes. All he showed them was shirking contests and giving away 50m penalties was acceptable. Took until 20/21 for our guys to find their own path. 

Clarko tipped out legends and bought in big ticket flops, had to balance the staged exits of the veterans with draft picks or true A graders the way Geelong have. Sam Mitchell’s possibly cut it too thin now but that’s a different argument, I watch the Hawks young mids and think he’s actually almost got it right. 

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

5 minutes ago, old55 said:

Keen for you to explain how Kossie, Chandler and Spargo all played together this year when JJ was sub.

I’d have to go back and look at the team sheet. From memory, wasn’t Fritsch injured at that point?

[beelzebub 23,382]

4 hours ago, BDA said:

JVR had a quite night but the one chance he had, he nailed it from a tight angle. He has a great mentality.

We can't expect him to lead the line though. He's just a 5 gamer. We really need BB back in the side. 

The idea that Roo is the new linch pin is either extreme wishful thinking....or a tad incredulous. 

He's just starting out. 

[DeeSpencer 26,070]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

And @DeeSpencer

You've got to own your words ... half way through the first quarter against the Eagles you wanted Brayshaw subbed off

As it turned out he wasn't needed much as we swamped the Eagles.  No errors for Gus, no clangers and 17 possessions in a game where he was hardly called upon

And you wanted him subbed off halfway through the first quarter?  Why?

Because his intensity to start the Eagles game was absolutely awful. And we could’ve beat them with 16 on the field so I suggested (not seriously) that Goodwin sub him off and let someone else have a go.

The poor intensity for most of the team in the Eagles game was reflected by getting our pants pulled down by the Bombers.

Last night we were on from the start. If that wasn’t a reflection of Goodwin not wanting a repeat of the Eagles game I’d be shocked.

[old55 23,687]

27 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I’m a big Spargo fan but are we sure it’s zero? Not even 10%?

To me it’s very simple, JJ or Spargo, and whilst overwhelmingly the evidence is for Spargo we get a 3rd winger, 5th on baller and a big bodied hard working flanker with JJ.

Chandler and Pickett get to stay closer to goal. Tracc plays forward more. Hunter and Langdon get more rest. We get more prime beef around the footy.

Spargo is super valuable for his inside 50’s and he’s a major zone organiser and generally just super switched on with positioning. He’ll find his way back to the 22 quickly, but a week at Casey could sharpen him up coming back from injury. I wouldn’t be against it. Has to be considered.

I like this post. It's quality analysis.

A few a coming for @DeeSpencer here but I think he provides well thought out material. I don't always agree, for example I'm a big fan of Gus, but there is also a grain of truth in DS view on him. I agree with him on Lewis.

DS is the opinion business like Hannibal ( @Gator?) - you won't agree with everything but you'll get value for your time reading him.

[Macca 17,032]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

The poor intensity for most of the team in the Eagles game was reflected by getting our pants pulled down by the Bombers.

Most of the team hey?

But at the time you only mentioned Brayshaw.  See there's where people like you continually get it wrong

You are biased and because of that, hopelessly compromised.  You have a screaming need to have someone in the gun.  Which is unintelligent

Besides all that, Brayshaw played well against the Eagles (when he was needed)

[Macca 17,032]

5 minutes ago, old55 said:

I like this post. It's quality analysis.

A few a coming for @DeeSpencer here but I think he provides well thought out material. I don't always agree, for example I'm a big fan of Gus, but there is also a grain of truth in DS view on him. I agree with him on Lewis.

DS is the opinion business like Hannibal ( @Gator?) - you won't agree with everything but you'll get value for your time reading him.

Coming for him?

Who is the one making the inflammatory comments?  What the hell does he expect?

[old55 23,687]

21 minutes ago, FlashInThePan said:

I’d have to go back and look at the team sheet. From memory, wasn’t Fritsch injured at that point?

R1 you're right Kossie, Spargo and Chandler all played and Fritsch was out injured.

R2 & 3 Kossie out suspended.

R4 & 5 All 4 played in the 22

R6 & 7 Spargo out with concussion.

In the two matches where all 4 were available they all played.

[jnrmac 20,154]

a few years ago i remember Clarkson when the Hawks were 100 pts up sending a spare man behind the ball and I thought bad thoughts about him that he wanted to keep that 100 point margin.

But I met a Hawks Board member who explained that Clarkson takes those opportunities to practice a 2 minute drill as if the game was within 1 kick

In other words supporters care about the 100 pint margin or similar but clubs use these opportunities to experiment with set plays etc. 

Now I don't know if we did that - and if we did it was poor because NM kicked 3 goals - but maybe we found out what didnt work, or what we need to do to fix our set plays

 

[Macca 17,032]

27 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I watch the Hawks young mids and think he’s actually almost got it right. 

So what did you think of their 3rd quarter against Geelong?

They jumped out of the way and went fully bruise free.  No one to show the way

They actually now need to bring in 3 or 4 experienced players just to be competitive. 

But I could care less.  I hope they struggle for the next decade

 

[old55 23,687]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

You're blinkered and triggered on Gus as you often are with certain players.  Lewis was another where you couldn't see his value and it took ages for you to see the value of T-Mac up forward

 

38 minutes ago, BDA said:

More nonsense from you today. The bloke has been retired for 4 seasons and you're still having a pop.

 

9 minutes ago, Macca said:

You are biased and because of that, hopelessly compromised.  You have a screaming need to have someone in the gun.  Which is unintelligent

 

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

Coming for him?

Who is the one making the inflammatory comments?  What the hell does he expect?

"Blinkered, triggered, hopelessly compromised, unintelligent nonsense"

[Macca 17,032]

Just now, old55 said:

"Blinkered, triggered, hopelessly compromised, unintelligent nonsense"

I'm sticking up for a player (Brayshaw) who is much maligned on this site

Is that somehow against the sites code of conduct? 

Blinkered & triggered?  I've seen you speak in exactly the same way about any number of players over the years

You should be on my side as most of the needless arguments on this site are caused by the unfair criticisms of 1 or 2 players (often when the whole team has been at fault)

In effect, I'm hosing down the fire and pulling people into line.  Takes a while but it does work

Eventually the knockers are subdued

 

[BDA 22,868]

3 minutes ago, old55 said:

 

 

 

"Blinkered, triggered, hopelessly compromised, unintelligent nonsense"

I agree @DeeSpencer produces some great analysis. I read all his posts. But i don't understand the constant bagging of Gus (Lewis was another who was always in the gun). At this stage it seems to be purely spiteful.