On 23/08/2023 at 22:03, Roger Mellie said:

Not quite Jaded. The AFL are outdoing themselves with even more BS today through their media arm:

North Melbourne also remains hopeful of retaining McKay, with the club's list manager Brady Rawlings telling Gettable earlier this month that the Kangaroos would consider forcing a trade if they didn't receive first-round compensation for his exit.

McKay's potential departure could help North Melbourne lands picks No.1 and No.2 at the upcoming national draft, should it receive tier one compensation in return. The club is currently last on the AFL ladder with one game to play in the year.

McKay, who stands at 202cm, has established himself as one of the League's best lockdown and intercept defenders across his 70-game and eight-year North Melbourne career. The Kangaroos have the ability to match any rival bid for him, given his status as a restricted free agent. 

– Riley Beveridge

Is there any stat that puts him in the top echelon of defenders? No mention of his injury history either.

 

No mention of his injury history although 70 games in 8 seasons tells the story there. He is a bog ordinary defender that has seen a fair bit of football down his end of the ground over the last few years. He’s tall and that’s it.

  On 23/08/2023 at 21:50, Cheap Seats said:

I don't think we'll get him but I reckon he would compliment Oliver and Viney.

 

He butchers the ball 

  On 23/08/2023 at 23:03, Nudge said:

WHAT?!?!

 

valie has inc CONSIDERABLY, the eye of the be(holder) being awe hold ALL cards. Why we’d trade him for anything less than top 18 pick is beyond me. No salary cover either, 3 teams or more bidding = Dees have the nuts.

id prefer to keep him, Max is 3yrs older & I can smell an injury if we do trade Grundy. But if we get good cover, sure trade him but only on OUR terms!!!

Yeh I don't think we can ask too much for him.  a second rounder is what he is worth.

Honestly i think we go to the lower levels and sign the best SANFL/WAFL/VFL ruck, even if its an SSP.  They are usually very solid ruckmen without being game changers. 

I'm a mad Norwood fan so a bit bias but I really like Harry Boyd in the SANFL.  He is second in the league for Hit Outs, first for clearances, averages about 15 disposals a game and 4 inside 50s a game.  He is only 25 and won the BOG in the 2022 SANFL GF and Norwood B&F that year too.  He is an undersize ruckman at 198cm but we are seeing more and more these days that if you are athletic that doesn't matter.

Edited August 23, 20231 yr by Travy14

  On 23/08/2023 at 07:26, Nascent said:

Of course he isn't. No one is suggesting he is. But the AFL rules are deliberately ambiguous and they can make it happen. It will be their draft assistance. And if Sydney pays him $1,000,000 then that makes it all the more easier for the AFL to approve.

 

The Eagles are the richest and most well resourced club in the game and won a flag only 5 years ago. AFL won't and shouldn't do them any direct favours, particularly as history (read ladder) will show them as not the worst team over the past two years. If they have another 1-2 years of these performances, then they can apply for assistance.

They won’t get assistance, but neither will North, that robs them of their desired player Curtin. 

  On 23/08/2023 at 22:03, Roger Mellie said:

...McKay, who stands at 202cm, has established himself as one of the League's best lockdown and intercept defenders across his 70-game and eight-year North Melbourne career. The Kangaroos have the ability to match any rival bid for him, given his status as a restricted free agent. 

– Riley Beveridge

Is there any stat that puts him in the top echelon of defenders? No mention of his injury history either.

 

No stats support what the AFL site says there. Quite the opposite in fact! 

See an extract from a previous post of mine regarding Ben Mckay stats:

"On 2023 form, he's lost 41% of one on one contests, which ranks him as the worst key defender in the league. Outright statistically worst tall defender in the league. He's averaged a bit under 2 intercept marks a game. For context, May has lost 21%, Lever 25%. Tomlinson surprisingly has been our strongest defender in the contest, and has only lost 12% of one on one contests and averages a bit over 1 intercept mark a game, including matches where he's been subbed off. Statistically, Ben McKay is work the Tomlinson, so if Ben McKay is worth a first round pick, then so is Tomlinson, and we all know neither are".

In no way is Ben McKay worth anything more than 2nd or 3rd round compensation. If a club is willing to pay him $800,000+, then they're run by a drugged up lunatic mid-[censored].

  On 23/08/2023 at 04:29, Neil Crompton said:

Our new forward coach next year?

Will retire. 💯 I’m told (barring miracle knee swelling dissipation within 3-4wks)

 

Club is already now approaching higher $$$ fwd targets and it’s only reason we’re also considering Grundy move ie free cap for a ‘play now’ Fwd.

**DISCLAIMER** Do not read if you’re a troll as you will undoubtedly be triggered. I’m lucky enough to get to talk to many club & AFL folk through my work and regularly ask Q’s for my own excitement (in fact I don’t ask anymore as they now just share cus they know if they tell me not to I won’t) so pls ignore below if you can’t handle the fact that clubs openly talk to agents and players about potential moves in a volume that’s completely obscenely larger than you’d ever imagine, I won’t answer Q’s cus I can’t & wont get specific for no other reason than I’ll be breaking a prof trust (unless I get approval to or it’s form a non direct source ie a media type or club insider not employed by the AFL, a club or player) & I like having solid relationships, simples. My intent as always is to share some fun info to help fellow Demonlanders know some interesting stuff, ie stuff I’d wanna know before I had the lucky happenstance of getting this type of info… Thus, there’s no perniciousness or subversive or egotistical function or form to it whatsoever — Deal with it or DO NOT READ on!!!***

Dreaming (probably) Targets: (chase cus gotta ask to know) Allen, McKay, King, Naughton (hate kicking but like versatility as cover for May of Jeffs/Roo develop as planned), Walker (god he’d be ideal for 12-24m, but no chance), Dixon

Genuine Targets: Georgiadis, McLean, L McDonald, Darling, Silvagni, Fullarton, Jones, Day, Hayes, DGB, Koschitzke, Reid, Waterman, Edwards, Coleman-Jones, Treacy, McLaughlin, Derkson, Voss, Burgess Kuek.   — Garoni, Keitel, (non-afl listed), 

Backup Ruck/Fwd Targets: S Hayes, Fullarton, Teakle, Bryan, Edwards, Miller, 

Ruck Targets (if Grundy does go): S Hayes, Phillips (rumours of coaxing out of retirement), Flynn, Pruess, Goldy, Sweet

Clubs pref desired toolkit (as given to player agents): Aggression, Competitive edge, Finishing 

*Bold denotes heard from multiple sources (2* diff ppl or 1 w/further source named) 
 

I’ll share some non-key-fwd names further along as right now it’s pretty sparse.

 

Edited August 24, 20231 yr by Nudge
Typo

  On 23/08/2023 at 23:46, Travy14 said:

Yeh I don't think we can ask too much for him.  a second rounder is what he is worth.

Honestly i think we go to the lower levels and sign the best SANFL/WAFL/VFL ruck, even if its an SSP.  They are usually very solid ruckmen without being game changers. 

I'm a mad Norwood fan so a bit bias but I really like Harry Boyd in the SANFL.  He is second in the league for Hit Outs, first for clearances, averages about 15 disposals a game and 4 inside 50s a game.  He is only 25 and won the BOG in the 2022 SANFL GF and Norwood B&F that year too.  He is an undersize ruckman at 198cm but we are seeing more and more these days that if you are athletic that doesn't matter.

It’ll be a bidding war, assuming he will go interstate, if not — I’m telling you we will keep him! that bargaining power alone even if it’s jsut Geelong he nominates, — ergo, no bidding war — that alone should mean we get a 1st rndr esp if we pay a small Amy of salary as that’ll up the currency even more. 
 

Staying 65% IMHO. But right. Is, that’s solely opinion based. 

  On 24/08/2023 at 01:47, Lord Travis said:

No stats support what the AFL site says there. Quite the opposite in fact! 

See an extract from a previous post of mine regarding Ben Mckay stats:

"On 2023 form, he's lost 41% of one on one contests, which ranks him as the worst key defender in the league. Outright statistically worst tall defender in the league. He's averaged a bit under 2 intercept marks a game. For context, May has lost 21%, Lever 25%. Tomlinson surprisingly has been our strongest defender in the contest, and has only lost 12% of one on one contests and averages a bit over 1 intercept mark a game, including matches where he's been subbed off. Statistically, Ben McKay is work the Tomlinson, so if Ben McKay is worth a first round pick, then so is Tomlinson, and we all know neither are".

In no way is Ben McKay worth anything more than 2nd or 3rd round compensation. If a club is willing to pay him $800,000+, then they're run by a drugged up lunatic mid-[censored].

Tommo not surprising at all, in 21’ he lead comp, prior to knee — with 1 lost contest I blv. His issue is speed off mark, that’s it!

Edited August 24, 20231 yr by Nudge
Typo

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:13, Nudge said:

Will retire. 💯 I’m told (barring miracle knee swelling dissipation within 3-4wks)

 

Club is already now approaching higher $$$ fwd targets and it’s only reason we’re also considering Grundy move ie free cap for a ‘play now’ Fwd.

**DISCLAIMER** Do not read if you’re a troll as you will undoubtedly be triggered. I’m lucky enough to get to talk to many club & AFL folk through my work and regularly ask Q’s for my own excitement (in fact I don’t ask anymore as they now just share cus they know if they tell me not to I won’t) so pls ignore below if you can’t handle the fact that clubs openly talk to agents and players about potential moves in a volume that’s completely obscenely larger than you’d ever imagine, I won’t answer Q’s cus I can’t & wont get specific for no other reason than I’ll be breaking a prof trust (unless I get approval to or it’s form a non direct source ie a media type or club insider not employed by the AFL, a club or player) & I like having solid relationships, simples. My intent as always is to share some fun info to help fellow demonlanders know some cool stuff, there’s no perniciousness or subversive or egotistical function or form to it whatsoever — Dela with it or do not read on!!!***

Dreaming (probably) Targets: (chase cus gotta ask to know) Allen, McKay, King, Naughton (hate kicking but like versatility as cover for May of Jeffs/Roo develop as planned), Walker (god he’d be ideal for 12-24m, but no chance), Dixon

Genuine Targets: Georgiadis, McLean, L McDonald, Darling, Silvagni, Fullarton, Jones, Day, Hayes, DGB, Koschitzke, Reid, Waterman, Edwards, Coleman-Jones, Treacy, McLaughlin, Derkson, Voss, Burgess Kuek.   — Garoni, Keitel, (non-afl listed), 

Backup Ruck/Fwd Targets: S Hayes, Fullarton, Teakle, Bryan, Edwards, Miller, 

Ruck Targets (if Grundy does go): S Hayes, Phillips (rumours of coaxing out of retirement), Flynn, Pruess, Goldy, Sweet

Clubs pref desired toolkit (as given to player agents): Aggression, Competitive edge, Finishing 

*Bold denotes heard from multiple sources (2* diff ppl or 1 w/further source named) 
 

I’ll share some non-key-fwd names further along as right now it’s pretty sparse.

 

Thanks Nudge - while there are a few names in the genuine targets that I think would compliment us, there is a clear difference in the quality of player between them and the dreaming targets

Any sense if any of those bigger names would be any more than a “just asking to ask” scenario?

I’m also curious what the clubs intent for Petty is long term - although I’m guessing much would depend on future trades and which area of the ground we need more support in 

Edited August 24, 20231 yr by demoncat

Wonder if things aren't all that happy at the kennel. Dunkley wanting out, Smith reportedly wants out. Perhaps we can try and entice Naughton. Is contracted so unlikely but doggies also have a lot of key forward prospects coming through in JUH, Darcy and Croft in this year's draft. Doggies might be tempted by another mini reset of their list with early picks.

  On 24/08/2023 at 00:16, Redleg said:

They won’t get assistance, but neither will North, that robs them of their desired player Curtin. 

I don't see why the AFL would be concerned by this.

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:23, demoncat said:

Thanks Nudge - while there are a few names in the genuine targets that I think would compliment us, there is a clear difference in the quality of player between them and the dreaming targets

Any sense if any of those bigger names would be any more than a “just asking to ask” scenario?

I’m also curious what the clubs intent for Petty is long term - although I’m guessing much would depend on future trades and which area of the ground we need more support in 

Hey mate, all I know is that right now it’s just due diligence & having the convo with plyr agents etc — Only one I know for certain they’re even slightly bullish on going back a ways is Allen — I think Georgiadis is one I’ve heard most of that helps!!! 

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:16, Nudge said:

It’ll be a bidding war, assuming he will go interstate, if not — I’m telling you we will keep him! that bargaining power alone even if it’s jsut Geelong he nominates, — ergo, no bidding war — that alone should mean we get a 1st rndr esp if we pay a small Amy of salary as that’ll up the currency even more. 
 

Staying 65% IMHO. But right. Is, that’s solely opinion based. 

I don't see Melb paying a cent. they will keep him if that's the case.
The interesting factor that may come up is if the bench goes to 5.  Which i believe was the original reason for going after Grundy. 

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:33, Travy14 said:

I don't see Melb paying a cent. they will keep him if that's the case.
The interesting factor that may come up is if the bench goes to 5.  Which i believe was the original reason for going after Grundy. 

They’ll pay if it means getting a higher pick, that’s absolutely certain!!! Just depends on the cash to reward ratio amigo  

Edited August 24, 20231 yr by Nudge
Typooo

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:33, Travy14 said:

I don't see Melb paying a cent. they will keep him if that's the case.
The interesting factor that may come up is if the bench goes to 5.  Which i believe was the original reason for going after Grundy. 

this issue won't be resolved until 24 hours after we trade out our second ruck

you know this!

  On 18/08/2023 at 22:04, dazzledavey36 said:

Paging @goodwindees......

Hi Dazz.  There is a bit going on and I'll be in a better position over the coming weeks to possibly announce some details.  I can tell you though that the Swans have, and are still having an enormous crack at Brodie, however, Brodie has almost totally decided it is back to SA for him due to changing family reasons.  This will probably leave Port as the most likely.  Lots of details yet to be worked out and tricky with both Clubs going deep.

I can also tell you that the Swans are heavily into Parish & Bailey Smith, I don't the media has caught up with their interest in Parish, but they're very keen.

It'll come as no surprise but it is almost certain that Bailey Smith will be elsewhere next year.

Stay well & Go Dees.

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:16, Nudge said:

It’ll be a bidding war, assuming he will go interstate, if not — I’m telling you we will keep him! that bargaining power alone even if it’s jsut Geelong he nominates, — ergo, no bidding war — that alone should mean we get a 1st rndr esp if we pay a small Amy of salary as that’ll up the currency even more. 
 

Staying 65% IMHO. But right. Is, that’s solely opinion based. 

There is no such thing as a bidding war for a player. The player will nominate his club of choice, and he either goes there or remains at his existing club.

And Grundy is a 99% chance of leaving. The club doesn't want to pay $650k for a back up ruckman until Max retires.

And it's been mentioned previously that a player can't be paid by 3 clubs, so we can't pay a portion of Grundy's contract whilst the Pies are still paying a significant chunk.

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:25, Nascent said:

I don't see why the AFL would be concerned by this.

You don’t see why the AFL would be concerned about giving North, 3 number 1 picks in a row and adding to that, an inflated compo pick for an ordinary footballer in McKay, which would rob the worst performing team of the year, of the player it would take with pick 2, which it currently holds.

Well the rest of the AFL competition do and I don’t think I can assist anymore with helping you understand that.

  On 24/08/2023 at 03:36, Redleg said:

You don’t see why the AFL would be concerned about giving North, 3 number 1 picks in a row and adding to that, an inflated compo pick for an ordinary footballer in McKay, which would rob the worst performing team of the year, of the player it would take with pick 2, which it currently holds.

Well the rest of the AFL competition do and I don’t think I can assist anymore with helping you understand that.

I agree, but it looks likely to happen,  - it wouldn't surprise me though if North were prepared to trade the compo pick.   How badly do we or the Hawks want Duursma?

  On 24/08/2023 at 01:47, Lord Travis said:

No stats support what the AFL site says there. Quite the opposite in fact! 

See an extract from a previous post of mine regarding Ben Mckay stats:

"On 2023 form, he's lost 41% of one on one contests, which ranks him as the worst key defender in the league. Outright statistically worst tall defender in the league. He's averaged a bit under 2 intercept marks a game. For context, May has lost 21%, Lever 25%. Tomlinson surprisingly has been our strongest defender in the contest, and has only lost 12% of one on one contests and averages a bit over 1 intercept mark a game, including matches where he's been subbed off. Statistically, Ben McKay is work the Tomlinson, so if Ben McKay is worth a first round pick, then so is Tomlinson, and we all know neither are".

In no way is Ben McKay worth anything more than 2nd or 3rd round compensation. If a club is willing to pay him $800,000+, then they're run by a drugged up lunatic mid-[censored].

Is the AFL trying to tamper with the draft again?

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:28, Nudge said:

Hey mate, all I know is that right now it’s just due diligence & having the convo with plyr agents etc — Only one I know for certain they’re even slightly bullish on going back a ways is Allen — I think Georgiadis is one I’ve heard most of that helps!!! 

If we land Oscar Allen (is this the Allen you are referring to?), Demonland will crash.

I just cannot see on what planet WCE let him go, and he is contracted. 

  On 24/08/2023 at 02:57, mo64 said:

There is no such thing as a bidding war for a player. The player will nominate his club of choice, and he either goes there or remains at his existing club.

And it's been mentioned previously that a player can't be paid by 3 clubs, so we can't pay a portion of Grundy's contract whilst the Pies are still paying a significant chunk.

I think the first part is correct, the player decides where they want to go. WC were never in the frame for Jackson.

However, it's not confirmed that 3 clubs can't pay a player and in fact there's suggestion they can.

  On 24/08/2023 at 03:36, Redleg said:

You don’t see why the AFL would be concerned about giving North, 3 number 1 picks in a row and adding to that, an inflated compo pick for an ordinary footballer in McKay, which would rob the worst performing team of the year, of the player it would take with pick 2, which it currently holds.

Well the rest of the AFL competition do and I don’t think I can assist anymore with helping you understand that.

I believe there's been a misunderstanding between us red.

I interpreted your post as the AFL have a vested interest in ensuring the Eagles pick up a certain player. They couldn't care less about which club picks which player come draft night. That was the intention of my post.

Of course pick 2 is overs in compo and will have incredibly bad optics.

Facts remain that the roos have been a disaster for the last 4 years, worse than Fitzroy, and their 2nd and 3rd round compo last year had negligible effect on performance with the roos going on to break the longest ever losing streak within an afl season (20 in a row).

They will apply for assistance and they will get it.

How that shapes us is still debatable, could be access to sanders, could be higher picks to trade, could be massaged fa compo.

Pick 2 doest pass the eye test and I think it's more unlikely than likely, but to dismiss it as even a possibility is being a bit foolish for mine.

Appreciate if you drop the condescending remarks at the end of the post next time.

Edited August 24, 20231 yr by Nascent

  On 24/08/2023 at 03:41, grazman said:

I agree, but it looks likely to happen,  - it wouldn't surprise me though if North were prepared to trade the compo pick.   How badly do we or the Hawks want Duursma?

I think North will get end of first round compo for McKay and at the very best, maybe a pick before team finishing 8th.

I think other clubs would be angry with even that. McKay is not Frawley and we had a worse list than North. 

  On 24/08/2023 at 04:27, Nascent said:

I believe there's been a misunderstanding between us red.

I interpreted your post as the AFL have a vested interest in ensuring the Eagles pick up a certain player. They couldn't care less about which club picks which player come draft night. That was the intention of my post.

Of course pick 2 is overs in compo and will have incredibly bad optics.

Facts remain that the roos have been a disaster for the last 4 years, worse than Fitzroy, and their 2nd and 3rd round compo last year had negligible effect on performance with the roos going on to break the longest ever losing streak within an afl season (20 in a row).

They will apply for assistance and they will get it.

How that shapes us is still debatable, could be access to sanders, could be higher picks to trade, could be massaged fa compo.

Pick 2 doest pass the eye test and I think it's more unlikely than likely, but to dismiss it as even a possibility is being a bit foolish for mine.

Appreciate if you drop the condescending remarks at the end of the post next time.

Yes we appeared to be at cross purposes over our posts and I agree with you that the AFL wouldn’t be concerned with which players are actually picked by clubs.

As to the remarks you saw as condescending, they weren’t intended that way, but I take your point and will do better.