Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)

[DeeMee 924]

48 minutes ago, BDA said:

Pretty strong statement from Clarkson. It does seem strange that a report can be issued which makes very serious allegations but does not interview the accused? Is this standard practice? 

Also interesting that the ABC article which is related to but separate from the report states that they put detailed questions about the issues raised to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt but none replied.

[Big Col 1,359]

1 minute ago, Jibroni said:

 

That is very sad to hear. Clarko and Fagan come across as men of high integrity and deserve the right to defend these allegations, I would have thought this would be the sentiment of most Hawks supporters.

In the end I don't think he will really choose a new team, but the response from Hawthorn will play a part in him remaining engaged with the sport (along with the final washup after Clarko and Fagan and Burt have their say) I guess what struck me was the way he regarded this as above his loyalty to his team (and he's a big fan) and even considered swapping teams. 

[chook fowler 19,783]

The burden of proof will be with Hawthorn. Hard to see this not getting very messy.

[The heart beats true 18,201]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

After today it feels like one of those days where I just want to go to bed and pull the dona over my head till in all goes away. What a sad world we are leaving our grand children  

I disagree OD. As horrific as it is to read, these stories need to come to light so that tomorrow is a better day - for your grandkids, and all the grandkids.

Most young people just aren’t going to tolerate this kind of behaviour - for themselves and for their community members. The world is changing, which presents an opportunity for all of us to make it a more fair and equitable place.

20 years ago this would have never been a story. Now it’ll be on the front page of every paper. It’s time to tell the truth, so that the future can be built on it. 👍

[BoBo 2,960]

6 minutes ago, old dee said:

After today it feels like one of those days where I just want to go to bed and pull the dona over my head till in all goes away. What a sad world we are leaving our grand children  

This is unfortunately ( yes, if proven true as they are allegations at this stage) only a small expression of what a lot of indigenous people have and still go through as being thought of as inferior in our society. It’s why it’s important to not let people minimise or deny the potency and regularity of racism in Australia. All you can do. 

[layzie 34,528]

17 minutes ago, DeeMee said:

Also interesting that the ABC article which is related to but separate from the report states that they put detailed questions about the issues raised to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt but none replied.

Andy Maher made an excellent point. Why didn't Clarko take the call? He could have nipped this all in the bud I'd it was not true and demand the story not to be printed or else.

[daisycutter 30,021]

38 minutes ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Wonder what evidence there is. You would hardly write an article without something to back up the claims. Will be interesting to see what unfolds. Sounds like too much smoke to not be fire.

if you are referring to the abc article, it was simply a reprint of the hfc independent report. little more that just a leak of someone else's work and repeated as allegations from said report. as such there was no reason for the abc to back it up other than to verify the existence of the independent report.

[rpfc 29,030]

27 minutes ago, ding said:

Yeah, they are white so they MUST be racist.

Like FMD every white copper is racist.

Yeah, sure.

Attitudes like yours are a part of the problem.

I said that? Every white cop is racist? I intimated that a unit with that make up is not ideal to manage, not encourage,  accusations made by indigenous Australians in their workplace.

Talking about attitudinal issues, go stare at yourself in the mirror and say that the biases and preconceptions of 5 white former cops is a healthy place for indigenous people to receive their ‘natural justice.’ If you can do that, you would be looking at a deluded individual.

[ding 5,126]

6 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I said that? Every white cop is racist? I intimated that a unit with that make up is not ideal to manage, not encourage,  accusations made by indigenous Australians in their workplace.

Talking about attitudinal issues, go stare at yourself in the mirror and say that the biases and preconceptions of 5 white former cops is a healthy place for indigenous people to receive their ‘natural justice.’ If you can do that, you would be looking at a deluded individual.

And you just double down on your anti white-police racism.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but im sure you wont.

[layzie 34,528]

I think every club needs to be reviewed. A chance to come forward on a one off basis and share any truths that need to come out so everyone learns the lessons simultaneously and we figure out together how to never let it happen again. The game is not bulletproof, I don't care how rich the AFL is. Russia was a pretty wealthy country once.

This is bigger than one club or coach and if you think this alleged behaviour is limited to this scenario, think again.

[London Demon 259]

The Dees must look at its own past.  I hope the CEO and administration are on it right now. There is no time to lose. 

[rpfc 29,030]

5 minutes ago, ding said:

And you just double down on your anti white-police racism.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but im sure you wont.

I am always amazed by those that have a worldview that is constantly attacked by the facts on the ground. You can think what you want about me, but I worry for you and those you influence that cannot see what is right in front of you.

Is this news abhorrent?

Are those charged with assisting those impacted set up to help them? 

What would diminish reporting on things like this in real time? 

Unfortunately for some, these are questions that you don’t want asked because the answers only lead to conclusions you simply don’t want to acknowledge. 

You can live in that alternate universe, but don’t expect my silence when it comes up in actual reality.

[BoBo 2,960]

9 minutes ago, ding said:

And you just double down on your anti white-police racism.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but im sure you wont.

 

12 minutes ago, ding said:

And you just double down on your anti white-police racism.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but im sure you wont.

489 indigenous deaths in custody since 1991 might be a reason? With 0 convictions?

Indigenous people composing 3% of the Australian population but comprising 28% of jail inmates?

 

[Demonland 74,465]

 

[ding 5,126]

4 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I am always amazed by those that have a worldview that is constantly attacked by the facts on the ground. You can think what you want about me, but I worry for you and those you influence that cannot see what is right in front of you.

Is this news abhorrent?

Are those charged with assisting those impacted set up to help them? 

What would diminish reporting on things like this in real time? 

Unfortunately for some, these are questions that you don’t want asked because the answers only lead to conclusions you simply don’t want to acknowledge. 

You can live in that alternate universe, but don’t expect my silence when it comes up in actual reality.

You pushed a racist trope. One that says white police cant be fair to indigenous Australians.

They are your words and you need to own them. Deflecting and obfuscating wont change the meaning of what you said.

It is both wrong and racist.

Own your words.

[ding 5,126]

3 minutes ago, BoBo said:

 

489 indigenous deaths in custody since 1991 might be a reason? With 0 convictions?

Indigenous people composing 3% of the Australian population but comprising 28% of jail inmates?

 

Are you suggesting all of our prosecutors, judges and juries are racist too?.... ALL of them? 

This garbage needs to stop.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

That story Eddie just shared! OMFG. And it happened recently! If you’re not watching AFL 360…Eddie was at a public swimming pool, holding his baby with his other children playing in the pool when a lifeguard approached him and told him he has to leave the pool immediately. The reason? Because an elderly white couple complained to the lifeguard that Eddie being in the pool was making their grandkid uncomfortable!!!!! WTAF??? 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

 

[BoBo 2,960]

3 minutes ago, ding said:

Are you suggesting all of our prosecutors, judges and juries are racist too?.... ALL of them? 

This garbage needs to stop.

Nup. That would be a dumb thing to say or to think I’m saying. 
 

I’m giving you statistical facts about how systemic racism exists and expresses itself in Australia which are a part of the reasons indigenous Australians to mistrust the police. 
 

Not an opinion either, it’s just very basic criminology which finds these disparities out. 
 

I can send you links to criminological papers on the issue which explains it all if you like?

[Mincho Mania 530]

3 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Wona left and went home after his father died. 

Actually it might have been a comment I saw here. Someone bumped in to him at Darwin airport and he expressed a strong displeasure towards the club.

Anyway, I've drunk that much since last September everything blurs in to fog sometimes 🍻

[Cranky Franky 2,270]

4 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I wonder what skeletons are in our closet in our treatment of indigenous players?  Didn't Davey, Wanaemirri, Jurrah (and maybe othres) have issues with Neeld? 

Wanaemirri didn't come back after 2011 and Jurrah lost his way.  Their departures may not in any way be connected to Neeld but there was some noise about his treatment of them at the time.  It leaked to the media and Davey had to publicly saw all was fine, nothing to see.

While we had the wonderful Jetta he was not the leader he was to become so his position at the time denied him a voice within the club that he later developed under Roos.

That is speculation & a shameful slur on the Club without a scrap of evidence. You shoud hang your head.

[ding 5,126]

2 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Nup. That would be a dumb thing to say or to think I’m saying. 
 

I’m giving you statistical facts about how systemic racism exists and expresses itself in Australia which are a part of the reasons indigenous Australians to mistrust the police. 
 

Not an opinion either, it’s just very basic criminology which finds these disparities out. 
 

I can send you links to criminological papers on the issue which explains it all if you like?

Yep, PM me the link, i will be happy to read it.

BTW we were not talking about why Indigenous Aussies have a distrust of police, we were clearly discussing RPFC's suggestion that white Ex-Coppers couldnt possibly give them a fair hearing. Do you believe that is the case?

[rpfc 29,030]

19 minutes ago, ding said:

You pushed a racist trope. One that says white police cant be fair to indigenous Australians.

They are your words and you need to own them. Deflecting and obfuscating wont change the meaning of what you said.

It is both wrong and racist.

Own your words.

I wasn’t deflecting, I was contextualising because you think that if you boil down someone’s alternate view to some horrible argument then you have won. But if you think that the horrible argument that me and many others are making is that we have historically racist institutions in this country…

lol 

Then you have just boiled it down to the truth. 

Welcome to reality! The toilets are to the right, the drinks are on the left, you can dance where you find room but avoid the buffet - it’s been out a long time because we’ve been here an effing long time!

Edited September 21, 2022 by rpfc

[layzie 34,528]

3 minutes ago, Mincho Mania said:

Actually it might have been a comment I saw here. Someone bumped in to him at Darwin airport and he expressed a strong displeasure towards the club.

Anyway, I've drunk that much since last September everything blurs in to fog sometimes 🍻

Yeah that sounds like crap.

[ding 5,126]

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

I wasn’t deflecting, I was contextualising because you think that if you boil down someone’s alternate view to some horrible argument then you have won. But if you think that the horrible argument that me and many others are making is that we have historically racist institutions in this country…

lol 

Then you have just boiled it down to the truth. 

Welcome to reality! The toilets are to the right, the drinks are on the left, you can dance where you find room but avoid the buffet - it’s been out a long time because we’ve been here an egging long time!

Oh ffs, i did not at ANY stage deny that we have some historical racism. That is undeniable.

What i did take umbrage to is your insulting insinuation that because there was "white Ex-police" involved then the outcome could not have been fair.

That is complete garbage.