Who's helping to fix our goal kicking woes?

[demon3165 2,718]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:30 PM, Redbeard said:

Pretty sure it was Plugger I say on an interview in the last couple of years who said short run up, straight run up and keep the ball still. Less things can go wrong so better chance to kick a goal.

You watch Max coming in flipping the ball about and then hooking out to the right around the man on the mark you pretty much know it's going to miss before the ball hits his boot.

If we can all see it why the heck isn't Stafford??

You watch Max last year towards the end if he was 30 odd metres out he would kick it straight over the mark and he had success but now goes on the ark again, one of the greatest goal kickers Dunstall has always said kick the ball straight over the mark think I would take his word for it.

Trac maybe should go back a few metres and run in to kick over the mark.

[layzie 33,801]

It all comes down to ball drop with Max. Decent ball drop and he kicks then more often than not, slightly off ball drop means serious consequences in the kick. Very much a confidence thing too.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

I still never understand why good field kicks like Gawn and Petracca go back 30 metres and run in with a completely different action to field kicking, when they have marks from 20 metres out. It gets all awkward and they end up missing. Guys now kick off two steps around corners, but continue on massive run-ups when kicking 20m directly in front. Dunstall would tear me a new one for this opinion, but I’d be pushing back off the mark as far as ai would for a field pass, and aiming to ‘pass’ it over the umpires head. I reckon it’s far safer. 

[MoeSyzlak 669]

On 8/9/2022 at 4:14 PM, cantstandyasam said:

Who's the forward coach, is it Stafford? He was a ruckman and not the best kick from memory.

I thought the same thing. Why have a ruck as forward coach? But when it comes to kicking accuracy, purely on statistics he’s one of the top 35 ever. Raw data of course but interesting.  
 

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/accuracy.html

[layzie 33,801]

I still love the suggestions that Stafford is rubbish and that we need some famous goalkicker from the past who may or may not even be a coach.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

On 8/8/2022 at 5:56 AM, picket fence said:

I have done this at a couple of Ammo clubs and developed a couple of things which greatly assist nailing set shots but two things which the club should stop immediately are

1 This ball twirl rubbish.

2 This exaggerated arc run approach

I remember watching Darren Bennett as a kid, held the ball straight, no bent elbows, bent over to hold it as close to his foot as possible to minimise the ball drop (less variance for the ball to move between hand and foot) and more power through the kick as the foot hits the ball at a lower point.

There is a technique to it which can only improve through repetition, watching the way Gawn and Petracca kick their set shots is mind boggling for professional athletes.

The other thing I've noticed as a novice/amatuer is you get better accuracy when kicking to a target rather than kicking through a target - so it's easier to aim a kick at the goal umpire (who stands in the centre of the goals) rather than to try and work the ball through the goals. Petracca is an excellent field kick (look at his pass to Kossie in the first quarter against Freo as an example) but he's in his own head with the goalkicking because he neglects his natural kicking motion. They need to relax and focus on repeating a good technique but it can only be improved with practice!!!!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:23 AM, picket fence said:

Its worse than that, how full time sportsmen who cannot convert bread and butter goals says something about Coaching, Technique and or Volition to do somethging about it!

Exactly right, no one should be missing from 30m out directly in front. No one. I don't care how fatigued you might be that is a layup, like shooting ducks in a barrel.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:30 PM, Redbeard said:

Pretty sure it was Plugger I say on an interview in the last couple of years who said short run up, straight run up and keep the ball still. Less things can go wrong so better chance to kick a goal.

You watch Max coming in flipping the ball about and then hooking out to the right around the man on the mark you pretty much know it's going to miss before the ball hits his boot.

If we can all see it why the heck isn't Stafford??

Yep and the short run up is another key as you've said - Max marks it 20m out then turns around walks back almost to the 50! You don't need that long a run up, just give yourself enough room to kick over the mark and pop it through.

Short run up, straight run up, keep the ball still and relax should be the mantra. Who would've guessed the best goalkicker in the games history would know a thing or two about what it takes? Would love to get Dunstall down to training to sort them out (unlikely Plugger would do it).

Edited August 10, 2022 by Dr. Gonzo

[layzie 33,801]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I remember watching Darren Bennett as a kid, held the ball straight, no bent elbows, bent over to hold it as close to his foot as possible to minimise the ball drop (less variance for the ball to move between hand and foot) and more power through the kick as the foot hits the ball at a lower point.

There is a technique to it which can only improve through repetition, watching the way Gawn and Petracca kick their set shots is mind boggling for professional athletes.

The other thing I've noticed as a novice/amatuer is you get better accuracy when kicking to a target rather than kicking through a target - so it's easier to aim a kick at the goal umpire (who stands in the centre of the goals) rather than to try and work the ball through the goals. Petracca is an excellent field kick (look at his pass to Kossie in the first quarter against Freo as an example) but he's in his own head with the goalkicking because he neglects his natural kicking motion. They need to relax and focus on repeating a good technique but it can only be improved with practice!!!!

The DB example is an excellent one and leaning over before ripping it was what allowed him to kick such great distances. I haven't studied this in great detail or anything but I find one of the most common faults of a goal kicking stance around the league is in the ball drop and more specifically the guiding hand. The way you guide the ball down to your foot (usually with your preferred hand) was always a big part of the drop punt skill when I was younger and I just don't think enough players even think about this. 

[In Harmes Way 7,775]

Agree with all of this. My only inclusion (forgive me if already stated) is that the player moving forward to take his set shot needs to be walking straight towards his intended target (whether it be the goal post or centre of goals). The amount of shots I've seen this year where the player is walking straight towards the middle of the point posts - and that's where it invariably goes - is both totally predicable and absolutely infuriating.

[Willmoy1947 4,086]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:56 AM, Demon3 said:

Its really stark isn't it.. especially the Petracca number, Cant and wont be the best player in the comp if he has numbers like that and frankly, that has let us down.

Petracca has never let me down and it is trite to say he has let the MFC down.

[sue 9,106]

Leaving ball drop, ball spinning aside, Max kicks the ball  hard and high when he's not far from goal.  Recipe for a miss IMO.

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I remember watching Darren Bennett as a kid, held the ball straight, no bent elbows, bent over to hold it as close to his foot as possible to minimise the ball drop (less variance for the ball to move between hand and foot) and more power through the kick as the foot hits the ball at a lower point.

There is a technique to it which can only improve through repetition, watching the way Gawn and Petracca kick their set shots is mind boggling for professional athletes.

The other thing I've noticed as a novice/amatuer is you get better accuracy when kicking to a target rather than kicking through a target - so it's easier to aim a kick at the goal umpire (who stands in the centre of the goals) rather than to try and work the ball through the goals. Petracca is an excellent field kick (look at his pass to Kossie in the first quarter against Freo as an example) but he's in his own head with the goalkicking because he neglects his natural kicking motion. They need to relax and focus on repeating a good technique but it can only be improved with practice!!!!

Bennet was a perfect, goal-kicking example. With almost no lateral force exerted, he also gained incredible distances, straight as an arrow. He was a really big bloke, too - but made a consistent effect to contact the ball as low as possible - the start of a straight kick, following through with the regulatory knee/thigh and then the extension of the lower leg in line.

A perfect model for Gawn - whose stylised approach and delivery throws him off-centre, out of target line; often, sky-scraping the elevation of the ball in its trajectory. If he'd kicked the ones he has missed this season, we'd still be top of the ladder and headed for the Premiership.

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

15 hours ago, demon3165 said:

You watch Max last year towards the end if he was 30 odd metres out he would kick it straight over the mark and he had success but now goes on the ark again, one of the greatest goal kickers Dunstall has always said kick the ball straight over the mark think I would take his word for 

These guys teach the same method.  Just  swap marker with a real person standing the mark

https://www.kickingdynamics.com.au/

https://fb.watch/eQ6JMwouHZ/

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

Gawn is bit all over the shop with his ball drop.    Can drop it almost from waist high at times, spins the ball, and has started running an arc again from close distances which is totally not right.

Petracca on his set shot also spins the ball incessantly....Very rarely does he get any momentum, walks in, does not kick through the ball and they can end up anywhere.  Try not spinning the ball and jogging in at least, you need some momentum to kick the ball well.  Jogging in will give him less time to think. 100% his yips are mental.  He can be a lovely kick in field play just playing on instinct.

20 metres out directly in front i would put both at around 50% chance to make the shot.  Most players would do better than that with their off foot.   

20 metres out directly in front you should be able to kick 90%+++ easily.

Both have major flaws in technique...It is not repeatable for either.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

20 metres out directly in front i would put both at around 50% chance to make the shot.  Most players would do better than that with their off foot.   

Would be pretty chuffed if we got 50% for Max with any set shots.  Even 20 meters out.  He must be running at something like 20% - 30% conversion on his set shots this year!

His whole approach screams "Just gonna hit this somewhere on me boot and hope it goes straight!"

Edited August 11, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[1964_2 2,357]

17 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I still never understand why good field kicks like Gawn and Petracca go back 30 metres and run in with a completely different action to field kicking, when they have marks from 20 metres out. It gets all awkward and they end up missing. Guys now kick off two steps around corners, but continue on massive run-ups when kicking 20m directly in front. Dunstall would tear me a new one for this opinion, but I’d be pushing back off the mark as far as ai would for a field pass, and aiming to ‘pass’ it over the umpires head. I reckon it’s far safer. 

Yep, you can see the mental demons flowing in  Trac and Gawn’s faces when doing their slow run up for goal. 
 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Ive never played competitive footy, but when at training with my son, i rarely miss a kicking target 30-40m away. However put me in front of the goals at a similar distance and the story is significantly different. 

Surround me with 60000 people and i doubt my foot would even make contact with the ball. Morale of the story, keep it simple, short run-up, kick it at 80-90% power, pick out a target in the crowd. 

Easier said then done i suppose. 

[Guest]

Hey, @The heart beats true! 
I blame the cheer squad, don’t you?!

If they could hold the bullseye in the right position we wouldn’t have this problem. Amirite???

[demon3165 2,718]

Russell Robertson had the yips early in his career,  but then he just marked went back hardly any waiting kicked straight over the man on the mark, again if Dunstall says it is the right way then I will take his word for it, and if that's not good enough then watch Lockett, Hudson, Mckenna etc.

[layzie 33,801]

17 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Russell Robertson had the yips early in his career,  but then he just marked went back hardly any waiting kicked straight over the man on the mark, again if Dunstall says it is the right way then I will take his word for it, and if that's not good enough then watch Lockett, Hudson, Mckenna etc.

When Russell perfected his routine he very rarely missed. Was very much a confidence kicker.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

39 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Hey, @The heart beats true! 
I blame the cheer squad, don’t you?!

If they could hold the bullseye in the right position we wouldn’t have this problem. Amirite???

Our cheer squad couldn’t hold a bullseye to save themselves.

They’ve cost us at least 5 losses this year. Another pathetic effort on the weekend. Makes me so mad I’m going to start a thread about it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Our cheer squad couldn’t hold a bullseye to save themselves.

They’ve cost us at least 5 losses this year. Another pathetic effort on the weekend. Makes me so mad I’m going to start a thread about it.

I know right?! Pack of whinging cretins.

Please do start a thread about how useless they are before they cost us the grand final.

Oh, and don’t forget to mention that one halfwit who routinely holds the giant helmet-less Gussy head upside down. 🙄 She’s a joke!

[The heart beats true 18,123]

11 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I know right?! Pack of whinging cretins.

Please do start a thread about how useless they are before they cost us the grand final.

Oh, and don’t forget to mention that one halfwit who routinely holds the giant helmet-less Gussy head upside down. 🙄 She’s a joke!

In fairness to that woman - James Harmes as the sub was doing her no favours. He was very oiled up on the bench all game and I imagine she was distracted.

[Guest]

Just now, The heart beats true said:

In fairness to that woman - James Harmes as the sub was doing her no favours. He was very oiled up on the bench all game and I imagine she was distracted.

I heard she got a selfie with Harmesy before the Geelong game and she was so nervous/excited/psychotically obsessed that she just stupidly held her phone up and didn’t say a word, and Harmesy had to take the selfie since he, unlike her, wasn’t catatonic.