On 27/10/2022 at 22:39, goodwindees said:

He told them that Collingwood has 1 great ruckman & 2 good ruckman taking $2 million out of TPP.  He stated that “my game plan requires 2 good ruckman, I don’t need the great ruckman when he frees up $1 million to get me what I need. 

Interesting. I've often wondered whether list managers divide the salary cap into areas of the ground and players get paid accordingly and how that gets effected when you have a player or players who are the best in the comp but in one area of the ground. For instance a few years ago May and Lever were probably our two highest paid players and I'd assume it would be unusual to have focused so much salary cap into the backline. We ended up seeing why and it's probably more than evened out now.

Now we have two of the highest paid being ruckmen. I have always been a big advocate of the importance of having a good ruckman but I'm not as clear about it anymore given we've had the best on in the comp and arguably the best midfield for him to service yet it hasn't translated to stoppage dominance. Teams with average or poor ruckman have been competitive and even better. Dogs were interesting for a few years there being the dominant clearance team by a significant margin without having any decent ruckmen. Centre bounce clearances don't have an excuse, I realise some of this in stoppage clearances is due to our tendency to play with one less at the stoppage but still it's an interesting one. Will be really interesting to see what two elite ruckmen do for us. Especially when the opposition has to bring in their second ruckman against one of our two. 

Edited October 27, 20222 yr by Its Time for Another

  On 14/10/2022 at 23:20, 58er said:

Has 8 years of life learning ahead of Jacko. And footy training also! 

But does he have “a basketball background” ? 🙄

  On 27/10/2022 at 23:13, Its Time for Another said:

Interesting. I've often wondered whether list managers divide the salary cap into areas of the ground and players get paid accordingly and how that gets effected when you have a player or players who are the best in the comp but in one area of the ground. For instance a few years ago May and Lever were probably our two highest paid players and I'd assume it would be unusual to have focused so much salary cap into the backline. We ended up seeing why and it's probably more than evened out now.

Now we have two of the highest paid being ruckmen. I have always been a big advocate of the importance of having a good ruckman but I'm not as clear about it anymore given we've had the best on in the comp and arguably the best midfield for him to service yet it hasn't translated to stoppage dominance. Teams with average or poor ruckman have been competitive and even better. Dogs were interesting for a few years there being the dominant clearance team by a significant margin without having any decent ruckmen. Centre bounce clearances don't have an excuse, I realise some of this in stoppage clearances is due to our tendency to play with one less at the stoppage but still it's an interesting one. Will be really interesting to see what two elite ruckmen do for us. Especially when the opposition has to bring in their second ruckman against one of our two. 

I'm not sure they divide the salary cap into areas of the ground, but one thing that is absolutely certain is that once a player is on a contract north of say $800 he’s in the spotlight.  

It’s often not easy to do, but a List Manager can quickly solve a lot of challenges by moving on one player on a million rather than 2 or 3 for that money, particularly, when that Player is a Ruckman, who as we know, are held in varying degrees of importance by different Coaches.

This was an immaculate meeting of needs as the Dees were desperate to replace Jacko and Craig identified Brodie as the best way to solve multiple needs. 
When you combine what the Dees are paying Brodie, what they had to give up for Brodie, plus what they got for Jacko, in my opinion, this is a truly Golden Deal for the Dees. 

  On 28/10/2022 at 04:04, goodwindees said:

I'm not sure they divide the salary cap into areas of the ground, but one thing that is absolutely certain is that once a player is on a contract north of say $800 he’s in the spotlight.  

It’s often not easy to do, but a List Manager can quickly solve a lot of challenges by moving on one player on a million rather than 2 or 3 for that money, particularly, when that Player is a Ruckman, who as we know, are held in varying degrees of importance by different Coaches.

This was an immaculate meeting of needs as the Dees were desperate to replace Jacko and Craig identified Brodie as the best way to solve multiple needs. 
When you combine what the Dees are paying Brodie, what they had to give up for Brodie, plus what they got for Jacko, in my opinion, this is a truly Golden Deal for the Dees. 

Agree. It occurred to me the other day just how lucky we are that Grundy happened to be available just when we needed him. Imagine what state we'd be in with Jackson gone and no Brodie Grundy. It's such a serendipitous gift. 

  On 27/10/2022 at 23:13, monoccular said:

But does he have “a basketball background” ? 🙄

Depends if you feel that is a benefit for some players as a step to AFL.

Brodie  has enough base on his AFL learnings to be at a consistently greater level than Jacko in tapping marking shepherding and match awareness along with a tandem operation with Maxy. He should provide a further step in our midfield with our mids and embrace the opportunity of playing up forward  or down back as our system demands or needs.

Jacko has such mobility clever ball play and movement and is cool under pressure and while Brodie has not starred  in those categories I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield. He is a cool customer and he is ready for a new start in our team which can assist us in starting to control the game with both big ruckman playing a vital role all over the ground. 

 

  On 28/10/2022 at 06:03, 58er said:

Depends if you feel that is a benefit for some players as a step to AFL.

Brodie  has enough base on his AFL learnings to be at a consistently greater level than Jacko in tapping marking shepherding and match awareness along with a tandem operation with Maxy. He should provide a further step in our midfield with our mids and embrace the opportunity of playing up forward  or down back as our system demands or needs.

Jacko has such mobility clever ball play and movement and is cool under pressure and while Brodie has not starred  in those categories I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield. He is a cool customer and he is ready for a new start in our team which can assist us in starting to control the game with both big ruckman playing a vital role all over the ground. 

 

"I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield" - WTF the guy is a two time AA. What has Jacko shown? Except for the H&W game against Brisbane his year was very ordinary. He might turn out alright but at the moment a fit BG would take him to the cleaners.

Edited October 28, 20222 yr by djr

  On 27/10/2022 at 12:41, goodwindees said:

Dees are so lucky to have got such a wonderful footballer as a replacement for Luke, but honestly, there’s not a better person in any footy club than Brodie. Ben Brown is a beauty, but Brodie is something special.  We had very influential people at Collingwood telling us all the time, that there was no better trainer at Collingwood than Brodie, and one of their Physios recently told me that in his seven years at the Club, as long as you didn’t want to talk footy, because he’s not a footy head,  you couldn’t meet a more interesting and engaged person with whom to talk.  Also said that he’s so good with the young blokes.  

I can also assure you all that there are no doubts at all about lingering effects of last seasons injuries, Brodie 100% fit and ready to go.

Many thanks for the insights. My pies tragic friends are devastated to lose him and keep de goey. Culture loss big time they say apart from grundy being a star.

  On 28/10/2022 at 23:06, djr said:

"I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield" - WTF the guy is a two time AA. What has Jacko shown? Except for the H&W game against Brisbane his year was very ordinary. He might turn out alright but at the moment a fit BG would take him to the cleaners.

A Geelong "mate" of mine said he thinks its very good for Melbourne and hes worried. He said last time Geelong had 2 big ruckman in King and Ottens they won a flag.

  On 28/10/2022 at 23:06, djr said:

"I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield" - WTF the guy is a two time AA. What has Jacko shown? Except for the H&W game against Brisbane his year was very ordinary. He might turn out alright but at the moment a fit BG would take him to the cleaners.

DJR  

You have a right in querying my question about Brodie and saying that I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield. Yes he has a great CV but we I believe will try and get a more midfield role in his game to than at the Pies. 

My point  is that he has some good mid field skills more than most rucks and should be able to learn/ adapt to suit our on the ball style of recent years. 

I also think he may take a month or so to hit top form  after his injury and length of time omissions in 2022. 

But the jury may still be out about his role and suitability for a part of the year irrespective of your glowing AA etc CV. 

  On 31/10/2022 at 21:28, Wadda We Sing said:

A Geelong "mate" of mine said he thinks its very good for Melbourne and hes worried. He said last time Geelong had 2 big ruckman in King and Ottens they won a flag.

they also had hawkins, ablett the youngest, and podsiadly

  On 31/10/2022 at 23:20, 58er said:

DJR  

You have a right in querying my question about Brodie and saying that I don't think he will be an embarrassment in our midfield. Yes he has a great CV but we I believe will try and get a more midfield role in his game to than at the Pies. 

My point  is that he has some good mid field skills more than most rucks and should be able to learn/ adapt to suit our on the ball style of recent years. 

I also think he may take a month or so to hit top form  after his injury and length of time omissions in 2022. 

But the jury may still be out about his role and suitability for a part of the year irrespective of your glowing AA etc CV. 

The jury has voted Grundy as a top ruckman. Nothing to prove here!  He will have more impact than most

  On 31/10/2022 at 23:31, whatwhat say what said:

they also had hawkins, ablett the youngest, and podsiadly

And we've got Gawn, Fritsch, Petracca and Oliver and Pickett

  On 31/10/2022 at 23:31, whatwhat say what said:

they also had hawkins, ablett the youngest, and podsiadly

Hawkins wasn't getting a kick in those days...

  On 01/11/2022 at 05:42, Monbon said:

Hawkins wasn't getting a kick in those days...

He was when playing us

I like the guy, he seems like a good bloke

Really hope he embarrass the CFC

  On 31/10/2022 at 23:31, whatwhat say what said:

they also had hawkins, ablett the youngest, and podsiadly

Neither Hawkins or Podsiadly played in the 2007 Grand Final with King and Ottens

  On 01/11/2022 at 04:45, Demonsterative said:

The jury has voted Grundy as a top ruckman. Nothing to prove here!  He will have more impact than most

Yes but his best is about 2/3?years ago and injury can be an issue after a layoff. 

My point is that the role we may prefer  Brodie to play could well be a bit different from CFC and more midfield centric. Has he the skills straight away to hit the ground running no matter what his ability has shown as a ruckman? 

The jury is out also in this Demonstrative !!

PS  sometimes even juries can get things wrong.

FWIW I think by the end of the season flag or no flag Brodie will be classed as a great pick up fir us and a team improvement on Jacko but not necessarily in the earlier rounds. 

  On 02/11/2022 at 02:04, 58er said:

Yes but his best is about 2/3?years ago and injury can be an issue after a layoff. 

My point is that the role we may prefer  Brodie to play could well be a bit different from CFC and more midfield centric. Has he the skills straight away to hit the ground running no matter what his ability has shown as a ruckman? 

The jury is out also in this Demonstrative !!

PS  sometimes even juries can get things wrong.

FWIW I think by the end of the season flag or no flag Brodie will be classed as a great pick up fir us and a team improvement on Jacko but not necessarily in the earlier rounds. 

2022 was definitely a ride off for Grundy due to injury. His form prior was very good to excellent. I don’t get the panic in this trade. At worst we are paying $700,000 (at most, I hope) in the final 2 years of his contract at the Dees,  yet  he has made career of being a great trainer dedicated to his craft displaying on field worth on match day. This is what has made him top class. I believe/hope this will make him durable. Injuries can hit a 20 year old, or a 28 year old in Grundy case, and many have recovered. 
 

I agree with your ‘jury is out’ comment, but only in relation to the Gawn/Grundy combo. Grundy is already a proven commodity and a surer bet than pick 27 at this years draft. Gawn and Grundy are too good to work this to their advantage, so is the coaching crew.
 

Our midfield must be excited with this trade. Imagine having Grundy being able to halve (at best) a ruck contest in the backline (thinking Hawkins here) and being that big bodied extra midfielder, for our smaller blokes, throwing the ball on the boot, or turning quickly to kick to Gawn down the line taking marks or contesting the ball down field. Jackson ain’t that player and Brown doesn’t play that role well enough. Or reverse the same scenario. Our weakness was the ball on the ground in the backline. 
 

I hate the kick long to the forward pocket dtaregy, but either Gawn or Grundy in this scenario is way better than Brown or Jackson, they are Not big enough to halve the contest. Oppositions worked this out and McDonald was a big loss without his body work in this strategy. 
 

I hope the club change the ruck position to a 40/60 scenario. Two great players rotating as an extra back/forward. One resting back or forward nullifying fatigue and injury as we saw with Gawn and hopefully Grundy. Gawn  was not the player late this year playing contested type footy. Players like Hickey and Martin monster Gawn traditionally and beat him up and nullify him. Grundy provides a different type ruck style. Forget the hit out stat, useless. It more about influence around the ground in and contest. Both players are great in this area. 
 

Jackson is an enigma. Shows a lot without consistency. He is young and big therefore  provided a lot to the club and a lot of hope to supporters. I hope he stays the enigma throughout his career now.  Grundy is already proven and a great pick up. His cost is worthy. 

  On 02/11/2022 at 07:03, Demonsterative said:

2022 was definitely a ride off for Grundy due to injury. His form prior was very good to excellent. I don’t get the panic in this trade. At worst we are paying $700,000 (at most, I hope) in the final 2 5 years of his contract at the Dees,  yet  he has made career of being a great trainer dedicated to his craft displaying on field worth on match day. This is what has made him top class. I believe/hope this will make him durable. Injuries can hit a 20 year old, or a 28 year old in Grundy case, and many have recovered. 
 

 

Fixed

  On 02/11/2022 at 07:36, Roger Mellie said:

Fixed

I was alluding to the final 2 years as an older ruckman of his 5 year contact Rog. At $700,000. But thanks 🙏 

I hope his footy is infinitely better than his social media content. Deadset cringe

Edited November 4, 20222 yr by The Jackson FIX

  On 04/11/2022 at 09:33, The Jackson FIX said:

I hope his footy is infinitely better than his social media content. Deadset cringe

Really? That’s funny. Give us an example 

Idk, I kinda like his stuff about Morocco!  Clearly has some kinda sponsorship with Intrepid Travel but it's cool to see.  Packing 12 hours beforehand was very relatable too lol

  On 04/11/2022 at 09:33, The Jackson FIX said:

I hope his footy is infinitely better than his social media content. Deadset cringe

Don't follow him then.

  On 31/10/2022 at 23:31, whatwhat say what said:

they also had hawkins, ablett the youngest, and podsiadly

Very true but our forwards and midfielders are just as good.

Edited November 5, 20222 yr by Wadda We Sing