1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Think about it in this way... loading right now, doesn't mean there is not further loading. ie:Planned Progression...

@BW511 can explain it more thoroughly than I could.

Following on from that, the bye week is the perfect timing for the planned recovery period as the players have to have 4 days away from the club (it’s in the CBA). If we had a longer break between games over the bye instead of 9 days we could have considered beginning the next 4 week block, but the break was too short and I think the club wanted to make a statement last night.

I have no doubt we have another 3-4 weeks of loading to come and expect just like this time last year, there will be some performances over that period that appear poor and fans and media will question effort etc etc but will really be severe fatigue. It’s about maximising performance in September. 

7 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

I reckon we might have finished Brisvegas' season tonight, they won't be making top 4 now.

I don't know about that. I think they'll win 3 or 4 of their next 4 games and could even be ahead of us after the next month such is their draw.

9 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't know about that. I think they'll win 3 or 4 of their next 4 games and could even be ahead of us after the next month such is their draw.

Agree, this is a 'forget' game for Bris. Things will be way different come the rematch and the pointy end. 

I can't believe no so-called media expert has considered loading as a possible cause of "form" loss. They talk about attitude and lack of effort as if a team's playbook is from the 1970s or 1980s. All of the top clubs' gameplans are so systematic that the two most likely reasons for a loss of "form" are injuries or loading. It's so 1970s to believe that a lack of effort is the primary cause of team failure. I understand that there may be times when a player's mind is not on the job, but the entire team? In-game, you see players address these issues.

I'm not sure why retired players like Nick Riewoldt, Jordan Lewis, and even Kane Cornes don't bring it up as a possible explanation for why leading teams struggle at certain times of the season. I understand why the "older experts" constantly talk about discipline and effort because that's how the game was played back then. Garry Lyon is a classic example.

To me it's lazy commentary. The only bright light in the media that I've seen this season is Nathan Buckley. But even he has not revealed much.

Edited June 24, 20222 yr by djr

1 hour ago, djr said:

I can't believe no so-called media expert has considered loading as a possible cause of "form" loss. They talk about attitude and lack of effort as if a team's playbook is from the 1970s or 1980s. All of the top clubs' gameplans are so systematic that the two most likely reasons for a loss of "form" are injuries or loading. It's so 1970s to believe that a lack of effort is the primary cause of team failure. I understand that there may be times when a player's mind is not on the job, but the entire team? In-game, you see players address these issues.

I'm not sure why retired players like Nick Riewoldt, Jordan Lewis, and even Kane Cornes don't bring it up as a possible explanation for why leading teams struggle at certain times of the season. I understand why the "older experts" constantly talk about discipline and effort because that's how the game was played back then. Garry Lyon is a classic example.

To me it's lazy commentary. The only bright light in the media that I've seen this season is Nathan Buckley. But even he has not revealed much.

In my mind it runs deeper than "lazy commentary" djr. 

Today more than ever, all media participants are under huge pressure to manipulate their content in a manner that generates the most interest/clicks/viewers/listeners. Typically this means exaggerating both the bad and good:- ie take a view and then go as hard as possible to push that view. Sitting on the fence, or having a rational balanced view is a sackable offense for media participants these days. 

When we were 10-0 there was a risk for the media that the season would get boring knowing who the premiers would be so early in the season. 1000% it suited the media agenda to have everyone thinking and doubting whether we are still the real deal. The media exploited our weak period to maximum effect, at the expense of truthful understanding for the content consumer. 

 

 

Edited June 24, 20222 yr by 1964_2

Remember when your team's performance on a given day wasn't dictated by the Phys-eders?

Good times

1 hour ago, djr said:

I can't believe no so-called media expert has considered loading as a possible cause of "form" loss. They talk about attitude and lack of effort as if a team's playbook is from the 1970s or 1980s. All of the top clubs' gameplans are so systematic that the two most likely reasons for a loss of "form" are injuries or loading. It's so 1970s to believe that a lack of effort is the primary cause of team failure. I understand that there may be times when a player's mind is not on the job, but the entire team? In-game, you see players address these issues.

I'm not sure why retired players like Nick Riewoldt, Jordan Lewis, and even Kane Cornes don't bring it up as a possible explanation for why leading teams struggle at certain times of the season. I understand why the "older experts" constantly talk about discipline and effort because that's how the game was played back then. Garry Lyon is a classic example.

To me it's lazy commentary. The only bright light in the media that I've seen this season is Nathan Buckley. But even he has not revealed much.

I reckon it's coz your average bloke sitting down to watch the footy after work doesn't want to hear about sport science and loading BS. A discussion on loading in the pre-game would be snooze-worthy TV

1 hour ago, djr said:

I can't believe no so-called media expert has considered loading as a possible cause of "form" loss. They talk about attitude and lack of effort as if a team's playbook is from the 1970s or 1980s. All of the top clubs' gameplans are so systematic that the two most likely reasons for a loss of "form" are injuries or loading. It's so 1970s to believe that a lack of effort is the primary cause of team failure. I understand that there may be times when a player's mind is not on the job, but the entire team? In-game, you see players address these issues.

I'm not sure why retired players like Nick Riewoldt, Jordan Lewis, and even Kane Cornes don't bring it up as a possible explanation for why leading teams struggle at certain times of the season. I understand why the "older experts" constantly talk about discipline and effort because that's how the game was played back then. Garry Lyon is a classic example.

To me it's lazy commentary. The only bright light in the media that I've seen this season is Nathan Buckley. But even he has not revealed much.

It's because it clearly doesn't have that much of an impact! 

It's not as if this is some undercover secretive experiment. It's just that people on here give way too much attention to it. 

Reminds me of that bloke Neil Waters who keeps releasing images of animals claiming that it's a Tasmania tiger. He will find everything in a photo in his mind that makes it not the animal that it is. 

A bit like people looking into why Brisbane look fatigued. They don't look at the fact that they've had a month of solid travel. Or that they played the saints on a 6 day turnaround from Perth and looked cooked. 

 

As I recall, it was Malcolm Blight, when he was at Adelaide, who first adopted the concept of loading in the weeks before the finals.

Because it was successful and he won two flags it should be no surprise that other teams have followed his lead. For former players since the late 90s to not be aware of this possibility, strikes me as either ignorance or simple mindedness.

One the other hand, unless the commentators know the coaching regimes at each club, it is still a bit of guesswork for them and us. Nevertheless to not discuss it as a possible issue is negligent.

I note that even though our bye period was not the full two weeks, playing only one game in almost three weeks with longer recovery periods in between did not seem to hurt our players last night.

GO GOODY GO DEES

17 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Phys-eders?

One of my favourite Demetriouisms

14 hours ago, Sideshow Bob said:

Mentioned at the start of Goodies post game Presser. 

"We've had a hard 3-4 weeks on the track"

 

I think we have the proof that loading has been at least partly to blame for the pre bye slump

genuine question - if we've been loading for the past 3-4 weeks wouldn't that mean we would be struggling to perform/run out a game. how does that explain last night?  or when you stop 4 weeks of loading do you get a burst?

hard to believe loading can have such a significant impact (from beaten by the Pies to smashing our nearest contender)

11 minutes ago, DubDee said:

genuine question - if we've been loading for the past 3-4 weeks wouldn't that mean we would be struggling to perform/run out a game. how does that explain last night?  or when you stop 4 weeks of loading do you get a burst?

hard to believe loading can have such a significant impact (from beaten by the Pies to smashing our nearest contender)

My guess is that it is similar to the practice of tapering in swimming. Train hard and then rest up leading into a contest. One game in three weeks offers the opportunity to rest and recover.

I felt a bit like last night we were back to our manic pressure and hard running because we really had heart and that overcame any tiredness we had from loading. 

Hopefully someone buys that. But seriously this is where I don't buy into the theory that it is 100% about loading and results/every kick, mark and handball being directly affected by it. Getting a run on with momentum, getting the heads of steam up from that and piling more pressure on as a result, being able to play a regular intercept game because the big man is back allowing Lever and Petty to do what they do, winning back the footy and scoring on turnover, entering 50 in a less one dimensional way and having the nerve to lower the eyes. All these things contribute to getting a team through even if they are still slightly off due to loading (which I do believe is a factor).

People also may not want to admit it but at one point this game could have gone either way too and were were slightly fortuitous at times. We know that we were extremely inaccurate but there were moments where the game was in the balance that Bris had some key set shots and let us off multiple times with bad misses. Had they kicked those it could have been a different game. 

So for me it's what is happening with mentality during these periods of loading. A nice run on with a few goals in a row and the heads are up and willing to run that extra 5% harder which we saw in spades last night. Smashed them in contested and uncontested possessions, you do a lot less running with the ball than without the ball.

So many factors involved, loading exists but it's how you get through and nothing is an exact mathematical equation as to how a game will turn out because of it. 

Edited June 24, 20222 yr by layzie

56 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

It's because it clearly doesn't have that much of an impact! 

It's not as if this is some undercover secretive experiment. It's just that people on here give way too much attention to it. 

Reminds me of that bloke Neil Waters who keeps releasing images of animals claiming that it's a Tasmania tiger. He will find everything in a photo in his mind that makes it not the animal that it is. 

A bit like people looking into why Brisbane look fatigued. They don't look at the fact that they've had a month of solid travel. Or that they played the saints on a 6 day turnaround from Perth and looked cooked. 

 

Yep, loading is a bit like the Tasmanian Tiger. FMD, you post some nonsense. 

Here's Chris Scott. You don't have to be Columbo to work out what he's saying here:

"It's what we do during the middle period of the year. We double down, even more than we might have done in previous years," Scott said.

"We might cost ourselves a little short-term, but we set up our program to be at our best when it counts.

"If we finish ninth because we try to prime ourselves to be at our best later in the year, then we'll live with that.

"We haven't been able to execute that over the last few years anyway. That's a reason to do it better."

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep, loading is a bit like the Tasmanian Tiger. FMD, you post some nonsense. 

Here's Chris Scott. You don't have to be Columbo to work out what he's saying here:

"It's what we do during the middle period of the year. We double down, even more than we might have done in previous years," Scott said.

"We might cost ourselves a little short-term, but we set up our program to be at our best when it counts.

"If we finish ninth because we try to prime ourselves to be at our best later in the year, then we'll live with that.

"We haven't been able to execute that over the last few years anyway. That's a reason to do it better."

A fascinating thing about those comments is one of his responses when asked about them on 360 the following night.

At the end of his anwer, he said that he was only discussing the topic becuase a reporter asked him about Selwood's comments about a heavy block of training straight after the game. He said it was Selwood's 'prerogative' to make those comments, but he (ie Scott) wouldn't otherwise discuss or raise the topic out of respect to their opponent.

16 minutes ago, layzie said:

I felt a bit like last night we were back to our manic pressure and hard running because we really had heart and that overcame any tiredness we had from loading. 

Hopefully someone buys that. But seriously this is where I don't buy into the theory that it is 100% about loading and results/every kick, mark and handball being directly affected by it. Getting a run on with momentum, getting the heads of steam up from that and piling more pressure on as a result, being able to play a regular intercept game because the big man is back allowing Lever and Petty to do what they do, winning back the footy and scoring on turnover, entering 50 in a less one dimensional way and having the nerve to lower the eyes. All these things contribute to getting a team through even if they are still slightly off due to loading (which I do believe is a factor).

People also may not want to admit it but at one point this game could have gone either way too and were were slightly fortuitous at times. We know that we were extremely inaccurate but there were moments where the game was in the balance that Bris had some key set shots and let us off multiple times with bad misses. Had they kicked those it could have been a different game. 

So for me it's what is happening with mentality during these periods of loading. A nice run on with a few goals in a row and the heads are up and willing to run that extra 5% harder which we saw in spades last night. Smashed them in contested and uncontested possessions, you do a lot less running with the ball than without the ball.

So many factors involved, loading exists but it's how you get through and nothing is an exact mathematical equation as to how a game will turn out because of it. 

Without a doubt there is always many key factors that decide the outcome of a game.

For last night though, given there was a 4 day forced break, it meant we had only 5 days lead up to the game :- So it is very likely that last night we went into the game with a freshen up vs the last month of going into games fatigued.

A similar freshen up to what we did against Port last year.

Brisbane had an extra 2 days break over the bye, so potentially they didn’t have the same freshen up that we likely did. 

More than likely we will have 3-4 more loading effected games to come :- If we can win a minimum of 2 of these, then our back-back campaign is well and truly on track. 
 

whether anyone agrees with the above, I really couldn’t care. Above all else, when we went through a flat spot, I didn’t throw the toys out, like many on this site did. Some really embarrassing commentary when you look back over the past couple of weeks, in context of what we delivered last night! 
 

9 minutes ago, binman said:

A fascinating thing about those comments is one of his responses when asked about them on 360 the following night.

At the end of his anwer, he said that he was only discussing the topic becuase a reporter asked him about Selwood's comments about a heavy block of training straight after the game. He said it was Selwood's 'prerogative' to make those comments, but he (ie Scott) wouldn't otherwise discuss or raise the topic out of respect to their opponent.

Picked up on this also, and found it fascinating! 

Scott found an angle to shift blame to not only sports science for any short term losses, but then also his captain! 

Goody just wouldn’t do this, no matter what Max had said in a prior interview 

The advantage of banking early wins it gives you options.  You will hit flat spots with in a season, it is all about peaking at the right time.

It's a build, you need to build to be hitting top form.  Some clubs need to peak early to get the hype and confidence up, others like us are fortunate to be able to map our your season to ensure you are peaking in September.

Different ball game for us now 

31 minutes ago, layzie said:

I felt a bit like last night we were back to our manic pressure and hard running because we really had heart and that overcame any tiredness we had from loading. 

Hopefully someone buys that. But seriously this is where I don't buy into the theory that it is 100% about loading and results/every kick, mark and handball being directly affected by it. Getting a run on with momentum, getting the heads of steam up from that and piling more pressure on as a result, being able to play a regular intercept game because the big man is back allowing Lever and Petty to do what they do, winning back the footy and scoring on turnover, entering 50 in a less one dimensional way and having the nerve to lower the eyes. All these things contribute to getting a team through even if they are still slightly off due to loading (which I do believe is a factor).

People also may not want to admit it but at one point this game could have gone either way too and were were slightly fortuitous at times. We know that we were extremely inaccurate but there were moments where the game was in the balance that Bris had some key set shots and let us off multiple times with bad misses. Had they kicked those it could have been a different game. 

So for me it's what is happening with mentality during these periods of loading. A nice run on with a few goals in a row and the heads are up and willing to run that extra 5% harder which we saw in spades last night. Smashed them in contested and uncontested possessions, you do a lot less running with the ball than without the ball.

So many factors involved, loading exists but it's how you get through and nothing is an exact mathematical equation as to how a game will turn out because of it. 

Another point you have in-directly touched on. Coaching groups are aware that 4 qtr’s of high intensity effort is unlikely in most home and away games. This fact impacts strategy with regards to game style, rotations and match ups.

in our 3 loading effected losses, we started strongly, and mostly had good first half’s. Potentially was some strategy of attempting to get a lead and then defend it.

Last night we didn’t really hit our straps until the second qtr. Maybe this was due to the confidence that we were fresh and would be able to run out the game! 
 

either way, both sides of this argument, and other commentators really need to acknowledge that us outsiders are missing so many of the key details/elements to enable us to make strong statements about why certain things happen within a game. 

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

genuine question - if we've been loading for the past 3-4 weeks wouldn't that mean we would be struggling to perform/run out a game. how does that explain last night?  or when you stop 4 weeks of loading do you get a burst?

hard to believe loading can have such a significant impact (from beaten by the Pies to smashing our nearest contender)

Ask Darren Burgess about Loading. It’s a real thing and Selwyn learnt from the best. 
there was a month of INTENSIVE Training before the bye. With the intention that the team will peak in September.
We had a flat period last year and then put the foot down. 
Worked a treat didn’t it. 
 

Back in the old days teams trained 2-3 nights a week  

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

Without a doubt there is always many key factors that decide the outcome of a game.

For last night though, given there was a 4 day forced break, it meant we had only 5 days lead up to the game :- So it is very likely that last night we went into the game with a freshen up vs the last month of going into games fatigued.

A similar freshen up to what we did against Port last year.

Brisbane had an extra 2 days break over the bye, so potentially they didn’t have the same freshen up that we likely did. 

More than likely we will have 3-4 more loading effected games to come :- If we can win a minimum of 2 of these, then our back-back campaign is well and truly on track. 
 

whether anyone agrees with the above, I really couldn’t care. Above all else, when we went through a flat spot, I didn’t throw the toys out, like many on this site did. Some really embarrassing commentary when you look back over the past couple of weeks, in context of what we delivered last night! 
 

Couldn't agree more and I do think we'll have the challenge ahead of us but like you said if we can just get it done then we'll be past the worst of it and ready for a tilt. 

I don't want to go too hard on the people who were losing faith. Yeah they probably shouldn't have but it's natural I guess when you go on a losing streak I guess. I certainly had my frustrations (even though I feel I've got a decent understanding of our condition)

We're in this together!

1 hour ago, binman said:

A fascinating thing about those comments is one of his responses when asked about them on 360 the following night.

At the end of his anwer, he said that he was only discussing the topic becuase a reporter asked him about Selwood's comments about a heavy block of training straight after the game. He said it was Selwood's 'prerogative' to make those comments, but he (ie Scott) wouldn't otherwise discuss or raise the topic out of respect to their opponent.

I find the Scott comments fascinating. Selwood went out of his way to mention it. He’s a very experienced player. There’s just no way this got on the agenda by accident.

I think they wanted other clubs to know, arguably because they’ve been late to the party. It never had to be mentioned in any way, but it was - by their long term captain whose spent 15 years toeing the line with the media.

Maybe I’m cynical but it’s out there for a reason. 

My recollection is that Barassi talked about loading at North. And it probably goes back further than that. It is not a new thing, it is real and is done in many sports.

12 minutes ago, layzie said:

Couldn't agree more and I do think we'll have the challenge ahead of us but like you said if we can just get it done then we'll be past the worst of it and ready for a tilt. 

I don't want to go too hard on the people who were losing faith. Yeah they probably shouldn't have but it's natural I guess when you go on a losing streak I guess. I certainly had my frustrations (even though I feel I've got a decent understanding of our condition)

We're in this together!

Re “we’re in this together” completely agree. I guess in my mind “together” includes with the players, coaches and club, rather than turning on them whenever things get tough. 

But understand my view is potentially idealistic and not realistic, re the typical nature of supporter groups. 

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I find the Scott comments fascinating. Selwood went out of his way to mention it. He’s a very experienced player. There’s just no way this got on the agenda by accident.

I think they wanted other clubs to know, arguably because they’ve been late to the party. It never had to be mentioned in any way, but it was - by their long term captain whose spent 15 years toeing the line with the media.

Maybe I’m cynical but it’s out there for a reason. 

Agree. For whatever reason, the release of intel was strategic rather than an accident.